Ness Question and Answer Thread, Ask Ness questions Here!

[Ref]

Okay. I know many of you have questions about several things but are:

1. Too embarrassed to ask in a new thread/ Too embarrassed to PM someone about it.

2. Don't know who to ask.

So as of Today, I decided to open a thread Dedicated to answering questions.

Types of questions to ask: Try to be as specific as possible

-Stuff about Tourney play
-Some match up related questions
-Found a ''New'' tactic
-Stuff about how I play
-Move set related ones
-Ness Stage specific ones
-Spacing Related


Super simple Questions I will answer right now without them being asked, I expect more in depth ones than these.

Q: Are you the best Ness player?
A: Check the tournament results thread and decide a best Ness player for yourself.

Q: Can I play you on WiFi?
A: I do not play Ness on WiFi, sorry

Q: Do you B stick?
A: No B sticking does not help me and I do not suggest doing it.

Q: What controls do you use?
A: Default, with rumble off.

Q: How did you get so good?
A: I wasted a lot of money on tourneys, and practiced by going to training mode.



The questions I expect to see are going to be much better than the ones above. I'd just thought I'd get those out of the way.

My Ness guide:http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197824

I will also:

-Give you advice off of videos you supply


Don't be shy ask anything you want as long as it is reasonable. Remember Nothing I say is law.

 

[Masky]

Do you have any advice on the Snake/DDD matchups? I'm thinking about picking up another character (Pikachu) just for these but mostly for Snake, but if it's possible to use Ness effectively against them then I'd be happy. When I'm fighting Snake my main strategies are to wear down their shield and then use fair to poke through, to hit with the last hit of the dash attack (seems to be unpunishable), to camp the ledge with fair and to punish a predicted jab/ftilt with sh dair. Against DDD the only strategy I've found that works is using a constant barrage of retreating aerials mixed up with grabs. I'd appreciate suggestions for how I can mix up my Ness game versus these characters.

Here's a topic I made with some videos of my Ness: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199894
They're kind of old and my opponents and I have improved since them but I'd really appreciate suggestions for my Ness

 

[thesage]

Be aggressive vs. those characters. Snake especially. Learn to dair through their recoveries.

The EIDI and Lucas cg on Ness. Someone tried it on me and I couldn't get out. How do you get out?

Also I do not suck. I'm better than you and could like jv 4 stock you.

 

[Ref]

Dedede can be really annoying. Stay offensive with F air. Short hop N air out of shield is your friend. When being chain grabbed do not try to spot dodge, this leaves you open to a dash attack. Retreat when you are hitting a shield to avoid being grabbed. Watch out for his up tilt. Approach with F airs and the occasional dash attack.

To prevent his recovery F air, Spacing well enough so you can hit him and not get hit by an F air or B air. Once all his DJs are done he will have to Up B. If you are holding the edge and he is not canceling it to grab the edge get out of the way! He will plummet downwards. Grab the edge by hugging when you see him go into the fall special.

The key is Spacing and punishing his attacks. D air to N air chain will get out prioritized by His B air. U air or Semi Side F air after a D air.

DI up when he is trying to Prevent your recovery.

Despite what many say PK fire isn't too good in this match up. You will maybe occasionally be able to pull a PK fire to Bat if Dedede

Always retreat every aerial that hits a shield or gets spot dodged.


Your best aerials are F air and N air in this match up. Keep on the offense.

For snake it's the same thing. Your play style is good Masky just don't roll so much...

As for sage. Lucas can not chain grab you hold r and keep mashing down since you have so much problems. His grab is slow.

And the you suck thing is for the spam thread/Happy happy cult.

R.O.B cannot chain Ness either.

 

[Masky]

Thanks for the advice Ref, I'll try to space better and roll less

 

[Uffe]

This is cool. Okay, so I've got a question about how to beat Zelda. So far I've come across three different types of Zelda's. The first one likes to use fair and bair quite a lot. The second one likes to use Nayru's Love whenever I get close. The last one likes to use smash attacks, Din's Fire and play defensive as in roll away, spot dodge and shield. Din's Fire isn't giving me any problems, though. I thought about just dairing the last Zelda to pressure her shield or hit her when she spot dodges, but I end up getting hit with u-smash and f-smash. Rolling is not an option, either as she'll just use her d-smash.

For the last one, I decided to use PK Fire whenever she used her smash attacks because she'd leave herself open. However it wasn't working since she somehow managed to block right away. I approached her by grabbing her, too, which worked because I saw how many times she put up her shield. I've only lost to her Zelda once, though. I've managed to beat her countless times, though. Still, this is rather annoying to fight a Zelda such as the last one. The first one, too.

 

[Levitas]

Ref, why are you so awesome in every way? Like seriously, dude.

BTW, lol at EIDI catching on as an acronym like wildfire. I really had to think about what that meant.

 

[PK Starstorm]

Any secrets to pk jumping. I love the tech, but for some reason I just can't use it consistantly. It's getting annoying when I run and use it, but mess up and get punished.

 

[deepseadiva]

Would any of you agree on this?:

Ness
Best: Delfino Plaza, Corneria, Green Greens
Worst: Yoshi's Island (Melee)

It's for this thread, discussing each character's 3 best and worst stages.

If no, suggestions?

 

[Wave⁂]

Pirate Ship.

 

[Ref]

That looks right Meno I would add Norfair and Pirate ship to the best list.

Uffe on Zelda : Okay Zelda has really quick smashes, the key is timing the lag on them. Your dashing grab is incredibly fast, use that to punish. When being hit by a smash wait for it to end before releasing your shield. Forward any lighting Kicks you see. If you can't beat them dash at them. Do dashing Up smashes or dash attacks, Both have amazing priority and pretty good range. Abuse your range, N air when close.
Shield and short hop N air when close. Try to get her in the air. When she does her Up B to recover, time a proper edge hug. Be patient spam PK Thunder if you have no approach options available at the time. Nayru's love looks good at first until you learn to out prioritize it. I need more Zelda Match up Exp but this is what I have so far.

DI out of her smashes. Think straight and do not panic when hit.

Roll away never behind or towards. Rolling is usually not a good thing. Pk fire is only good for very little things don't use it to punish every smash attack.

Levitas: I'm just like that, EIDI read backwards is I die, it was pointed out and it is really going to be the next term that is thrown around meaninglessly.

Pk Starstorm about Pk jumping: ONLY DO THIS OCCASIONALLY, Throw it out randomly don't make it an constant thing, it's cool and all but using it to much gets you punished. The key to doing this is waiting until about halfway into your DJ.

 

[PKNintendo]

Can Ness escape DK's cargo turnaround grab release downsmash.

 

[Ref]

Ness can escape the cargo grab by DIing away from DK, and most likely with EIDI the down smash, though I haven't tested.

 

[neomadgic]

What are some mindgames you do to trick your opponents?

 

[Ref]

That is an interesting question that I did not expect to see.

The truth is mindgames come with great skill. It's not anything like forward smashing the wrong way to catch a roller.

It's out predicting the opponent. You need to evaluate your moveset based on the opponent's ideas on how to avoid attacks. If your opponent is a spot dodge spammer you do a rapid attack to catch their spot dodge when they don't expect it.

Mindgames aren't walking and forward tilting randomly, reverse forward smashes, dash attack spamming, long time spans of not attacking.

Mind games are knowing how your opponent will react to certain situations and reverse those situations to make them get hit. So basically I don't pull out random things to mind game, they just happen based on how my opponent reacts.

 

[Levitas]

NeoMagic, "mindgames" are about conditioning your opponent. Make them do something punishable, and punish it. It's like playing rock paper scissors and trying to get them to do rock so you can do paper. That's what "mindgames" are all about.

 

[thesage]

The only possible thing I can see about brawl having something that melee does not is that mindgames are more diverse since there are so many different ways to play a character (except mk, he doesn't really have that much variety in playstyles). Then again, I only keep up with Ness really.

 

[deepseadiva]

That looks right Meno I would add Norfair and Pirate ship to the best list.

I'm only going to be listing three best and worst stages. Would you replace Delfino, Corneria, or Greens Greens with Norfair or Pirate Ship?

And anything to add to the stages Nesses will be banning?

 

[thesage]

Ness' best stages are Norfair, Delfino, and Pirate Ship. Replace Delfino with 75 m if you're counting banned stages.

Ness doesn't really do badly anywhere. Wait no. Yoshi's Island (brawl) is his worst stage by far.

 

[Ref]

I personally would take Corneria over Delfino, for the most part what sage said.

 

[thesage]

I think Corneria is banned here >_>; All of Ness' good stages are being banned lol.

 

[Ref]

It's banned in a lot of places I go... But sometimes it isn't...

 

[CELTiiC]

Could someone help me with new Ness tactics or help me with some tactics, I'm still a beginner Ness, I've only been using him for 2 weeks.

Edit: Grammatical Errors

 

[neomadgic]

That is an interesting question that I did not expect to see.

The truth is mindgames come with great skill. It's not anything like forward smashing the wrong way to catch a roller.

It's out predicting the opponent. You need to evaluate your moveset based on the opponent's ideas on how to avoid attacks. If your opponent is a spot dodge spammer you do a rapid attack to catch their spot dodge when they don't expect it.

Mindgames aren't walking and forward tilting randomly, reverse forward smashes, dash attack spamming, long time spans of not attacking.

Mind games are knowing how your opponent will react to certain situations and reverse those situations to make them get hit. So basically I don't pull out random things to mind game, they just happen based on how my opponent reacts.

I know that, but I was hoping for some stuff that you do that work really well. I'll share some of mine.

Pkt2 into a Fsmash. At 1:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miW0EJJCEww
People expect longer lag and tries to go in for the punish. BAM!

Dthrow into another grab
People DI away expecting you to come at them with an aerial. Instead, run in with another grab. This one works pretty well if throughout the match you've been Dthrowing into an aerial.

 

[Ref]

Hinoarashi : Read this for tactical help http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=169865 anymore specific questions you need I'll answer them.

NeoMagic : I can't give you mind games sorry... It's technically impossible, because all opponents act differently analyze your opponent and create some for yourself against them... It will not work all the time once they learn... I don't do things trying to mindgame, I just look at my opponent and design a plot to punish how they react to a certain situation.

 

[CELTiiC]

Hinoarashi : Read this for tactical help http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=169865 anymore specific questions you need I'll answer them.

Thanks Ref

 

[Alus]

how old is ness?

 

[thesage]

13 (in earthbound).

 

[Ref]

The earthbound guide says thirteen.

 

[CELTiiC]

Surprisingly, for a 13 year old, he owns a lot of characters

 

[Uffe]

@ NeoMagic: "Mind games" are to be used during the match. I believe it is up to you to do them while you fight your opponent instead of trying to learn them. Because you can come up with many of these "mind games," but they won't always work. So you're better off doing them during the match. I've tried to replicate something I did recently that was just too good. I wasn't even trying to do it, but when it happened, I was very surprised and kept it in mind. I'm keeping this to myself, though. I'll be more than happy to share it with you via PM. :D I've seen you do some mind games on me whether you realized it or not.

 

[Earthbound360]

Pk Starstorm about Pk jumping: ONLY DO THIS OCCASIONALLY, Throw it out randomly don't make it an constant thing, it's cool and all but using it to much gets you punished. The key to doing this is waiting until about halfway into your DJ.

Whoah whoah WHOAH
Ref, that's not a PK Jump. That's a double jump to PKF. You are NOT doing it right.

Man, no wonder you dont like it, or at least think its occassional! Figure it out the right way and it'll be much better!

PK Starstorm, you hit jump and PKF at the SMAE time holding forward. Timing is tricky, you may want to change controls if necessary.

 

[Ref]

PK jump fails especially like that.... DJ pk fire greater...

 

[CanadaKid91]

How would you recommend dealing with a clever Sonic? I ask this question because I recently played a Sonic who continuously used fake-outs and pseudo-approaches. I'm embarrased to say that I only beat him in 1 match out of 5...

Thanks in advance...

 

[Earthbound360]

DJ PKF doesnt work well. You go so high and you have much less momentum since you have to use it late. It comes out slow too because of the wait. A true PK Jump has much more momentum with it, and it's even adjustable how far you want to go. The height is better as well because a DJ PKF cannot hit many short characters, unlike a normal PK Jump. You shouldnt be able to follow up much after a DJ PKF either. PK Jump however leads to aerials and grabs.

 

[Levitas]

How would you recommend dealing with a clever Sonic? I ask this question because I recently played a Sonic who continuously used fake-outs and pseudo-approaches. I'm embarrased to say that I only beat him in 1 match out of 5...

Thanks in advance...

Be sure to use only ness's moves that have the least lag. For ness, this means aerials. Don't be afraid to nair into pretty much every approach/fakeout that ness has. Yoyos can be risky unless you're sure that he's approaching. If your spikes aren't working, go for PKT every time, the risk vs reward is lower, but you're at least getting some extra damage for an eariler bair/uair/bthrow kill.

 

[Earthbound360]

Dtilt is so funny on Sonic. It stops any rolling attack.

 

[Ref]

Levitas has more sonic experience so go with his. I'm yet to face one seriously. N air pretty much out prioritizes every attack... And no EB360 D tilt sucks on smart Sonics.

To EB360:
Fine whatever but, Grounded pk fire > than all kinds of PK fire. DJ pk fire is better than a PK jump if you ask me.

 

[Uffe]

How would you recommend dealing with a clever Sonic? I ask this question because I recently played a Sonic who continuously used fake-outs and pseudo-approaches. I'm embarrased to say that I only beat him in 1 match out of 5...

Thanks in advance...

They do fake outs to see your reaction. If you show no reaction, then it's not working on their behalf. However, when they do this, just approach them anyway. Go ahead and attack. Also, remember to save your second jump, because they'll try to use their Spring to cancel out your PK Thunder. This has yet to actually happen to me, though. What was this persons name?

 

[Levitas]

They do fake outs to see your reaction. If you show no reaction, then it's not working on their behalf. However, when they do this, just approach them anyway. Go ahead and attack. Also, remember to save your second jump, because they'll try to use their Spring to cancel out your PK Thunder. This has yet to actually happen to me, though. What was this persons name?

This is a strategy against an individual. it won't work against all sonics. Doing nothing in response to the spinning/whatever fakeouts will only prolong each approach on sonic's part, and a longer time between approaches means that your reaction time will go down.

Btw, don't mindlessly approach sonic. If he's charging a down b, he can cancel it into a shield and punish whatever you had in mind. Yoyo's and dash attacks can be countered in reaction that way, and if you go for a dash grab, he's got the option to release early and hit you or jump out of it.

This is why IMO the best approach is getting him to approach with a spin and attempting to outprioritize it with a nair or fair. Followups are important.