Ness Question and Answer Thread, Ask Ness questions Here!

[Eagleye893]

How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

/sarcasm.

With ness' aerial mobility, you need to learn how his DJ acts. it's very floaty and nice. it makes me feel good inside.

 

[Screk]

I agree with Neon most of all because most people I play in offline tournaments tell me the same thing. They can do what they want with their char since they are so use to them.

 

[JTMerrell]

Alright... Here comes a big ol' noob question. I have been seeing this a lot and now that I main Ness, I feel like I need to know what DJing is and what it even means. Lol. I read people talking about it a lot, but I have no idea what it even means. Can someone please explain?

 

[yoshi8984]

DJ = Double Jump.

 

[JTMerrell]

Oh my... Lol. Why didn't I think of that?

 

[pooka216]

Oh my... Lol. Why didn't I think of that?

^ lol the abbreviations on these boards get me all the time....


Quick question: What stage should i take snake and falco to? ban?

 

[Flame Hyenard]

Against Snake, you should ban Halberd. Low ceiling + Snake's high killing capability = no good.

As for what stages you should pick Snake and Falco on, avoid Final Destination as this is their best stages.
That is all I know for the stages you shouldn't go on when confronting those characters.

 

[Jamwa]

SV is the best as you got a moving platform for camping with pkt1 and you can avoid grenades.

bf might me better against falco than sv, but im not sure.
bf is smaller, the platforms allow for some fair follow ups, but it does make it a bit harder to approach and PKF in the air.
sv does have space and a moving platform.
depends on how you play

bf = Battlefield
sv = smashville

 

[pooka216]

SV is the best as you got a moving platform for camping with pkt1 and you can avoid grenades.

bf might me better against falco than sv, but im not sure.
bf is smaller, the platforms allow for some fair follow ups, but it does make it a bit harder to approach and PKF in the air.
sv does have space and a moving platform.
depends on how you play

bf = Battlefield
sv = smashville

What about delfino? I might be wrong but i thought battleifield was falco's best/2nd best stage.

 

[xoxokev]

i would probably take falco to lylat; this may be a double edged sword because the tilting platform may be difficult for both players to recover. and probably take snake to jungle japes; once you get snake in the water, he should have a difficult time getting back on stage because of his weak jumps and limited aerial options

 

[Jamwa]

What about delfino? I might be wrong but i thought battleifield was falco's best/2nd best stage.

depends on preference. the small map disallows extensive camping and his fast fall speed works in our favour when we fair him onto platforms, as it allows for follow ups.
personally i prefer sv

 

[JTMerrell]

I played a Falco and he started out SV, then I CPed BF and he just chain grabbed me off the ledge. I mean I saw my mistake, but avoiding that chain grab is tough and I hate small stages against him because of that chain grab against Falco.

 

[Screk]

From my experience and what I'v been told if you('re) take/taken to SV or BF by Falco make the platform(s) yours.and once you reach 34 - 39 % ( I think ) you can go in with out fear of the CG. After that just be aware of his movements and predict/mind game him. Note this is based off my experience so it's more of a suggestion =P

 

[xoxokev]

From my experience and what I'v been told if you take/taken to SV or BF by Falco make the platform(s) yours.and once you reach 34 - 39 % ( I think ) you can go in with out fear of the CG. After that just be aware of his movements and predict/mind game him. Note this is based off my experience so it's more of a suggestion =P

yes i would do this. keep your finger on your shield button and predict the lasers, you can also substitute shield with psi magnet, just make sure you lag cancel it. also predict the phantasm, nair will beat it

 

[P.I.E.]

So, honestly I play a falco all the time and he pisses me off with a wall of lasers. He'll beat you in footsies and things like that, but the two best stages I suggest are YI and Lylat. If not, my strategy is to either stay ducking and wait till he approaches (Predict him, but don't let him predict you!) or get a stage with a platform thats too high like BF and make that your safe place, with the exception of him being within range of it, lol. A falco will also ban delfino, because I notice many of them in my area will side-b through the main stage somehow, lol. I don't suggest FD, because you've only got one place to land. With places like bf, you can drop down, and (is the term DJC) an aerial away from your opponent, I do it with nair (i t-stick), and it gets me a few more options, whether to drop through the platform, airdodge, Air-stall with magnet and move to a slightly different position (cuz them dacus happy falcos love to get you landing) or even pkfire downward to the ground while landing on the playform (saves you a bit, right?) but anyway, I'm getting off topic. Delfino, Frigate, Lylat, yoshi's.

 

[yoshi8984]

I thought YI was already a bad stage for us. =P

Also Ness can duck under the lasers until he starts moving his head.

How would Brinstar be? It's already a good stage for Ness

I do like Lylat against a Falco since the tilting screws up his recovery and his lasers though. XD

Also, if you watch this video, it shows you how to DI against his CG>D-Air
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPdVrVrl7gg

 

[JTMerrell]

A Falco also told me that Delfino is a bad place because sometimes they'll side B and go through the ledge when they should have grabbed. Just thought I would mention that.

 

[Ayce God]

delphino might not be a good place to cp falco to unless you're REALLY good at avoiding the grab bc on a regular stage worse case scenario he chain grabs to spike and puts you in a bad spot. BUT u can still recover.

on delphino he can chain grab u right off into the blast zone. which is instant death I know bc I've done this countless times with falco.

 

[JTMerrell]

I suppose it's all about avoiding it though. I've never taken a Falco there. I was just told.

 

[Ayce God]

what's wrong with frigate?

 

[Eagleye893]

Nothing's particularly WRONG with frigate, it's just circumstance seem to hate ness. The platforms are nice height, the slope on the second part is nice, it's just that the stage flip will oftentimes kill you (if you're landing after using PKT2, you go back into helpless falling state for a bit) or the platforms will take your thunder by jumping out at bad times or the platform at the right on the first part of the stage will decide to start moving up when you prepare to PKT2 onto it.

My recommended stage list:

SV -- The moving platform is what you should always be touching, and if you aren't, something's wrong with you. Even if you can't platform cancel well, just do maneuvering shenanigans.
BF -- I had some video on my computer or somewhere else describing that the platforms here are slightly lower than anywhere else, but I must've deleted it. This allows you to do some stuff rising up to the second platform with a full-hop. ALSO, the top platform can be double-jumped to and landed on smoothly if you time it right, but I haven't played in a while, so I can't tell you exactly where that jumping point is.
Delfino -- I don't know whether or not this is legal anymore, but it's ness' best non-starter stage. The water is awesome, you can manipulate the timing of lift-off and drop-down to different areas of the stage to do crazy stuff with pkt off-stage. Knowing this stage helps a lot in developing your ability to use parts of the stage to your advantage.

EVERYTHING ELSE SUCKS! Brinstar is probably banned by now, but if it isn't it's only good for gimmick and stupid stuff. If you ever go to brinstar, break the balls in the middle all the time. It only hurts you. If you ever get stuck below to recover, the ball stuff can be annoying to go through. Also, sets up pillars pretty frequently.
My other stage after the above is Halberd, just because I like stages which have go-through bases to utilize the floaty jump that ness has.

because falco does well on BF and relatively well on SV, you're essentially dead in terms of starter stages. TO THAT, YI SEEMS GOOD! Only because it throws off the falco a bit.


EDIT: Oh yeah, falco chain grabs.... When it comes to delfino, just be careful and don't play dumb on parts of the stage where he has the ability to laugh at your face.

 

[Jamwa]

question, is platform cancelling (dairing at a good moment) the same as the thing where people seem to drop right under the platform as they platform cancel, and they just have quick hands, or is it something else. (i think i saw someone write something like shield+down about this, i dunno)

 

[Eagleye893]

question, is platform cancelling (dairing at a good moment) the same as the thing where people seem to drop right under the platform as they platform cancel, and they just have quick hands, or is it something else. (i think i saw someone write something like shield+down about this, i dunno)

not sure exactly what you're asking here....

platform canceling doesn't need to have a DAir attached to it. it can be anything where you press down and make some form of input once you reach a certain point on the platform which allows you to platform cancel OR you hold down and set the control stick back to neutral once you pass that spot. The timing is annoying as balls.

Some people can platform cancel and then drop immediately, yes, but they probably have more of an attention span for figuring the stuff out than I do. I platform canceled once and was like "cool, this is too hard! I'm not playing this game super competitively anymore anyways, so I won't bother perfecting my ability to do it."

 

[dettadeus]

Best thread for platform cancelling stuff:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=323822

Practice a lot, best place to practice is either Smashville or Lylat since they both have constantly moving platforms.

 

[JTMerrell]

I have a question. So you get hit at high percents and DI, I've noticed G&W mains will use their bucket, why do Ness' not use PSI Magnet?

 

[Jamwa]

dw eagle, FAE told me everything lol.

 

[Neon Ness]

I have a question. So you get hit at high percents and DI, I've noticed G&W mains will use their bucket, why do Ness' not use PSI Magnet?

Unfortunately, it doesn't work the same way in terms of stopping momentum cold like it does for Game & Watch. :\ Would be really nice if it did though lol.

 

[Mad Duck]

Is Brinstar the best stage/CP for Ness?

And where or when should I use F Smash?

 

[yoshi8984]

Brinstar just got banned in my area... Also your opponents will tend to ban it as well. But don't CP it against characters like Meta Knight or other aerial characters unless you're confident you can beat them. =P
I'm not sure if it's his BEST, but it's a great stage for him.

Back-Throw kills at like 90-100% there, you can use PK Fire on those side tentacles to refresh your moves and/or limit your opponent's options on the edge. It also extends the hitbox duration of some attacks (though be wary it can be used against you as well as it makes you vulnerable if you whiff and you're still attacking) and you don't need to worry THAT much about recovering with PKT2 as you won't get gimped by the stage or you may get saved by acid. (though I think the acid would kill at like 180%)

F-Smash is slow, but it's good for punishing things that are laggy. But if the attack isn't laggy enough for the bat to hit, try to punish with an F-Tilt instead.

 

[xoxokev]

I have a question. So you get hit at high percents and DI, I've noticed G&W mains will use their bucket, why do Ness' not use PSI Magnet?

If I recall correctly, Ness' Psi Magnet will actually give him a small boost of sideward momentum when being knocked back. The best way to cancel your momentum when being knocked back would be to do your fastest ending aerial, in this case it would be Ness' nair, and use your double jump toward the stage. Hope that helps.

Is Brinstar the best stage/CP for Ness?

And where or when should I use F Smash?

Best time to use fsmash is after a dtilt

 

[Jamwa]

Use fsmash if you predict an airdodge land

use a slightly charged fsmash if you predict a spot dodge

 

[yoshi8984]

@xoxo: Wouldn't B-Air be better for Momentum Cancelling since you're DIing the same time as you use your aerial? Doesn't N-Air make you have to press the A button then hit the Control Stick...?

 

[Flame Hyenard]

Personnaly, U-Air works well for me in terms of momentum cancelling. To each their own, as long as different methods works

 

[xoxokev]

@xoxo: Wouldn't B-Air be better for Momentum Cancelling since you're DIing the same time as you use your aerial? Doesn't N-Air make you have to press the A button then hit the Control Stick...?

I'm not sure I'm understanding the scenario... But I just checked the frame data thread and nair and bair both are IASA at 36 frames, so they are equally good for momentum canceling. However, in terms of DI, the best DI when being knocked back horizontally is in the upward direction. When you're being knocked back off the stage, you will be facing toward the stage (in most cases). The slight DI from a bair will technically take you closer to the blast zone, but probably not by a lot unless you're already at a high percentage. I personally like using nair because I can just slide my thumb from the A button to the X button for the double jump.

 

[Jamwa]

I'm not sure I'm understanding the scenario... But I just checked the frame data thread and nair and bair both are IASA at 36 frames, so they are equally good for momentum canceling. However, in terms of DI, the best DI when being knocked back horizontally is in the upward direction. When you're being knocked back off the stage, you will be facing toward the stage (in most cases). The slight DI from a bair will technically take you closer to the blast zone, but probably not by a lot unless you're already at a high percentage. I personally like using nair because I can just slide my thumb from the A button to the X button for the double jump.

Yoshi27869817256 is saying that in order to input the nair, you must let the control stick return to a neutral position, and if you are doing that you are not DI'ing. hence this is why bair is more suitable, as you can use the c-stick to input the aerial whilst you hold the control stick in the appropriate direction.

 

[yoshi8984]

^Yeah what Jamwa said. Also you can just call me Timmy, I don't think I can change my username since I don't have premium.

 

[JTMerrell]

Very helpful information! Thank you all.

 

[Screk]

Since I want to keep this ball rolling I'm going to ask a random question ( this does not apply to me only )

How do you guys feel about your control with PKT -> PKT2 in terms of using in an actual match ?

 

[Jamwa]

Since I want to keep this ball rolling I'm going to ask a random question ( this does not apply to only )

How do you guys feel about your control with PKT -> PKT2 in terms of using in an actual match ?

You mean stopping yourself with going crazy? i only do it when i know they dont have a DJ and are probably going to airdodge into me

 

[Eagleye893]

ummmmmmmmm.... can I be cocky and say perfect? I can miss myself, loop it back and still manage to recover when offstage.