Natural Talent

[JPOBS]

A lot of people pretty much said the same thing, why is Cactuar getting all the credit. lol. Either people really don't read or dismiss posts by some users..

I've been saying this about this community for ages. Full of fake d*** riders.

Although I will give it to cactuar, his post's are usually better formatted/worded than most people's.

Lmao at mikehaggar pretending he understands neuroscience since he read one study.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

herpaderp i will avoid the argument by posting funny pictures! im a genius!

sensitivity to atrocious diets is partially the cause of many cases of mental ***********. how can you possibly think that minor mental *********** (stupidity) is not affected by this extremly important factor?
Look, I'm helping you. If you stop eating junk you will become smarter and better at smash.

 

[Beat!]

M2K has made better posts in this thread than everyone else combined.

(except KJ)

 

[JPOBS]

Ok two things Haggar:

1. That "study" you linked, isn't even the actual study Hagger. Its a news article. News tends to be incredibly sensationalist towards science reporting because it brings in the views. Every damn week there's a report on a "new breakthrough in AIDS vaccine" and the like. They don't even link to the study itself goddamn I hate media.

2. Its one study. Even if one laboratory made reports on scientific findings, the entire point of science is that the results are consistently reproducible.


Stop being so aggressive towards everyone else. The foundation on which you're basing your argument is fundamentally flawed i.e. you linked to a news article on ONE study.
That's not how science works.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Ok two things Haggar:

1. That "study" you linked, isn't even the actual study Hagger. Its a news article. News tends to be incredibly sensationalist towards science reporting because it brings in the views. Every damn week there's a report on a "new breakthrough in AIDS vaccine" and the like. They don't even link to the study itself goddamn I hate media.

2. Its one study. Even if one laboratory made reports on scientific findings, the entire point of science is that the results are consistently reproducible.


Stop being so aggressive towards everyone else. The foundation on which you're basing your argument is fundamentally flawed i.e. you linked to a news article on ONE study.
That's not how science works.

its an article that reports a study. idiot.
and like i said to kal, i can post references to more studies that confirms the same thing, just ask. i wouldnt recommend it however since youll end up looking like an idiot.

 

[JPOBS]

Are you going to link to the actual study or more articles about the studies?

I have no fear of looking like an idiot. My point is that your single link to a single news article about a single study does nothing to validate your argument.

Even if the stance you hold (junk food = stupidity or whatever) is true, your proof and method of argumentation is poor.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Are you going to link to the actual study or more articles about the studies?

I have no fear of looking like an idiot. My point is that your single link to a single news article about a single study does nothing to validate your argument.

Even if the stance you hold (junk food = stupidity or whatever) is true, your proof and method of argumentation is poor.

With the article I linked, I had already read the original study, but I was to lazy to find it again so i simply hit up google and took the first link about it.
And for these references, I'll show you the type of studies I usually read. You can look up the studies in their respective journals.

Warden, N., Duncan, M., and Sommars, E. "Nutritional changes heighten the children's achievement: A five year study." International Journal of Biosocial Research
Tuormaa, T.E. "The adverse effects of food additives on health with a special emphasis on child hyperactivity: A review of the literature." Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine
Benton, D. and Roberts, G. "Effect of vitamin and mineral supplementation on intelligence on a sample of school children." The Lancet, 1: 140-143
Benton, D. and Cook, R. "Vitamin and mineral supplements improve intelligence scores and concentration of six-year-old children" Personality and Individual Differences,12 1151-1158

If you want more I can link more, and about adults. It's just that the area of childhood psychiatry has been the area within medicine that I have had the most interest for lately.

Now, bow down and pray for mercy from your invincible master of endless wisdom, intelligence, courage and strength: The Mighty MikeHaggarTHAKJB.

 

[Kal]

Thankfully, SWF has an ignore list.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Thankfully, SWF has an ignore list.

How very practical to apply it when you got destroyed and ***** in every area of our argument.

 

[JPOBS]

With the article I linked, I had already read the original study, but I was to lazy to find it again so i simply hit up google and took the first link about it.
And for these references, I'll show you the type of studies I usually read. You can look up the studies in their respective journals.

Warden, N., Duncan, M., and Sommars, E. "Nutritional changes heighten the children's achievement: A five year study." International Journal of Biosocial Research
Tuormaa, T.E. "The adverse effects of food additives on health with a special emphasis on child hyperactivity: A review of the literature." Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine
Benton, D. and Roberts, G. "Effect of vitamin and mineral supplementation on intelligence on a sample of school children." The Lancet, 1: 140-143
Benton, D. and Cook, R. "Vitamin and mineral supplements improve intelligence scores and concentration of six-year-old children" Personality and Individual Differences,12 1151-1158

If you want more I can link more, and about adults. It's just that the area of childhood psychiatry has been the area within medicine that I have had the most interest for lately.

Now, bow down and pray for mercy from your invincible master of endless wisdom, intelligence, courage and strength: The Mighty MikeHaggarTHAKJB.

Cool, always good to learn stuff in a field I'm not familiar with.

I was never disagreeing that you were/could be right. Just pointing out that your proof (at the the time) was rather limited, so there was cause for skepticism.

lol at the last line.

 

[Kal]

As I said, there is a difference between "eating healthy makes you smarter" and "eating junk food makes you stupid." I would not expect someone who gets all of the necessary nutrients (i.e., is on one of these "healthy" diets) to become stupider for throwing in an addition of weekly pizza, and, to the best of my knowledge, there is no science that really says otherwise. I haven't gone out of my way to read the linked studies, because their titles suggest exactly that eating healthy makes you smarter, not that eating junk food makes you dumber (a distinction that is important, and is exactly what I was calling out our little racist troll on).

Though, in his defense, I realize his original comment was directed at people that live off of such food to the point of being unhealthy, rather than those with a fairly balanced diet who periodically eat such things.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

As I said, there is a difference between "eating healthy makes you smarter" and "eating junk food makes you stupid." I would not expect someone who gets all of the necessary nutrients (i.e., is on one of these "healthy" diets) to become stupider for throwing in an addition of weekly pizza, and, to the best of my knowledge, there is no science that really says otherwise. I haven't gone out of my way to read the linked studies, because their titles suggest exactly that eating healthy makes you smarter, not that eating junk food makes you dumber (a distinction that is important, and is exactly what I was calling out our little racist troll on).

Though, in his defense, I realize his original comment was directed at people that live off of such food to the point of being unhealthy, rather than those with a fairly balanced diet who periodically eat such things.

by your logic one could upgrade his own intelligence by switching between a bad diet and a good one. if one of these people went back to their old diets, off course they'd get dumber.

yes, if 95% of your diet is good and 5% is bad then it's ok. but most people don't eat good diets and a little junk, they eat overall bad diets and alot of junk.
but most people think that diets that are actually atrocious are ok.
If you want to be on an ok diet, you cant eat white rice, white pasta, white bread, etc. You can't eat anything with added sugar or chemical additives (this includes 99% of cereals). you cant eat meat that is not ecological: a chicken with no muscles because hes never run in his life and that has been fed processed junk and injected with hormones will NOT be healthy. you have to eat lots of fruit and vegetables, roughly a third of each meal should consist of this.

white flour is probably the best example: the original food has been stripped of almost all of it's nutrient value, and it's carbohydrates have been simplified so that it leads to unstable blood sugar levels: leading to mood swings, hyperactivity, fatigue, forcing the pancreas to work unnecessarily hard and increasing the risk for diabetes.

 

[Deleted member]

LMFaOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Lovage]

god dam lol

 

[Zoler]

this thread rofl XD

 

[Devil Ray]

talent definitely matters. there are definitely smashers who work harder and have worse results. that much is obvious.

the problem is, NO ONE knows how to measure talent, or even define it in smash.

 

[-LzR-]

M2K makes a couple of simply stunningly amazing posts that everyone should read and it gets covered in some useless drama no one cares about. If you know **** about psychology you'll know that if you think eating fast food makes you dumb, it will make you dumb. /end of rant

 

[Mew2King]

yea im surprised most everyone skipped it i pretty much told you what the actual truth is

 

[Mekos]

Talent is the natural ability to be able to comprehend and do something.
Which means u were blessed with a certain skill already wired in your brain and came to fruition when actually tried.

Skills can then be practiced and made better.

For example, I have a talent in seeing the big picture in things and seeing things from a broad perspective. This helps me out in many things in life such as sports and video-games as I can strategize really well. And helps me to be a good leader.

One example of that specific talent being utilized is that Michelle Obama is coming to speak at my University's graduation. I go to an HBCU. So many people are emotionaly high and so happy while I immediately realized she is doing this for her Husband, the president to help secure the HBCU vote(black college students vote) as elections are coming up. I saw the big picture.

An example lol. Korra the new avatar has a natural talent for water, fire, and earth bending. But is struggling to acquire the skill of airbending.

So after explaining my thoughts on talents and skills, Yes there are some I believe who will be better than others based on their natural talent. That doesn't mean that someone not as talented can never be better tho. If that naturally gifted person doesn't harness their skill and makes johns all the time like the smasher community someone can surpass them who is working on their skill(although they may be less talented).

 

[Beat!]

yea im surprised most everyone skipped it i pretty much told you what the actual truth is

Yeah, everyone just ignored you and kept going on about talent. Pretty saddening. :/

 

[Kal]

To get the most out of your own potential, you need to put in effort, obviously. But there are plenty of people who put in tons of effort and don't get good results out of it. The "10,000 hour rule" isn't "do something for 10,000 hours, and you will be the best." It's "if you want to be the best, you need to put in 10,000 hours." It doesn't guarantee any results.

I understand wanting to believe that this whole "Rock Lee" thing works in real life. It makes us feel better. We like to think that, as long as you train hard enough, you can become the best at anything. If you're not able to use magic (I really don't watch Naruto), then you just train super hard and you can punch through sand demons and get your legs broken. But, in real life, "natural talent" is a real thing. In most cases, no matter how hard you train, you're not going to be the best. You certainly need to train in order to make the most out of whatever potential you do have, but you're kidding yourself if you think resolve and determination alone will overcome adversity. They won't. Real life is not a Karate Kid training montage.

 

[Divinokage]

Well.. it really depends how you trained those 10000 hours.. if you really passed through all the problems and trials needed to be at least a candidate for the best then already you know you did a fine job training. It's exactly as M2k said, you have to understand your problems some are slower than others, yes but there are a LOT of mental barriers to go through, it's generally all about the mind in order to be happier or more successful.. whatever it is.

For example if you get bored, it generally means it's an inability to enjoy the moment. You can train to enjoy what you do more, of course you can. You can train anything.. =P

 

[The Good Doctor]

I entirely disagree with this, because simply put i don't DESERVE to win anymore because I am not putting forth any effort required to win. I'm unmotivated and a little ***** compared to my former, dedicated self. I ONLY play before nationals, and my skill has suffered as a result. When I put the most effort in my marth was at it's peak, and the same happened in 2010 Brawl with my MK

If you have spent the most time playing a game, you should in theory understand the game on a level no one else does Jason. I'm referring to pre-mango. You should have been better than him, you just choke for some reason.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

All this confidence talk with M2K is so results based.

It obscures the fact that for the longest time he was regarded as a perfect mental machine which never let emotion get in his way; literally a robot. He may very well not be the same because he doesn't think he practices adequately anymore, or he doesn't trust his controller but lets not forget that he was a heartless sith lord mother****er in his prime.

 

[Divinokage]

Of course, everybody changes daily for the better or worse.. you just have to understand why to fix these issues.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

I just don't understand why people try to consult the dude like hes Rubyiris or something (<3 Ruby). Hes the most accomplished smasher in history ffs.

Its the god damn King of the Mews. He'll figure it out.

(if he wants to)

 

[Mew2King]

Yeah controller is an issue but the MAIN thing that changed in me was motivation. That's the key element that has been deteriorating as time went on, especially after people started caring less. When I was working to the best, I just wanted to show everyone how good I was, and as I got older I started to care less and my skill dropped as my motivation and effort lessened. Ever since I got banned from mlg dallas (my true prime) I have just changed for the worse in every single way and every element of my life went downhill, I've been just an emo kid that wasted a year and a half on his life, lacking confidence to do anything and the situation I have with my ex-gf katie made it even worse (cheated on me 5 times, stole 1,000 dollars from me, among other things, which I all found out later on, despite me doing nothing except being a really good person). I'm not the machine I used to be, and the factors are 1) lack of effort/motivation (MAIN FACTOR) 2) controller (another really big factor, probably just as important as the first factor tbh, but not the point here) 3) my change in my overall happiness with myself and my life (3rd factor but not as big as the other 2). That's the full truth. My lack of confidence in myself is a personal issue I've had I believe due to always questioning myself and the truth in things many times and not being socially interactive with other humans throughout all of elementary, middle, and high school. That's what I think makes the most sense to be the main reasons.

The Good Doctor, mango told me for a long time he thinks he counters me and that I choke a lot and should place a lot higher than I do. I feel like if I was more experienced vs puff I would have done better. The 2 MUs I struggled with the most were (and probably still are) puff and falco. Mango happens to main both of them. I've gotten strong in MUs I had the most experience in (because of cactuar/lord knight), such as Marth/Fox. Some of it may be due to natural style, but a lot of my habits probably came from doing those MUs a lot, so I could get good habits for some MUs but when those habits carry over for other MUs it does not go as well. I still feel like my prime in brawl was the best the game was ever played and my prime in melee could give any player today a good run for their money, but I'm not motivated enough due to a number of factors in my life, which mostly comes down to motivation. The way I see it, motivation leads to effort, and effort leads to improvement, which leads to success. Even if this is only 50% of the reason, that's still a pretty big factor. I think controller and various other things could be the other 50%.

 

[Bing]

M2K with some incredible posts. Damnit Imma read those again later.

Like most people, we wish you would find that motivation again, we miss seeing the days where m2k was like, the third most feared player around, next to like, Armada and Mango, and even pp towards the end of your "reign"

 

[Mew2King]

I understand wanting to believe that this whole "Rock Lee" thing works in real life. It makes us feel better. We like to think that, as long as you train hard enough, you can become the best at anything.

See man, being 100% honest with you, i TOTALLY disagree with you. I started tournaments in 2005, as a newb that got 3 stocked by Wes. Within a few months, I was able to beat him in sets. By 2006 I could beat all the top players. I've 3-0d KDJ in many fox dittos (the vids may look like it's in his favor but I still have a winning record vs his fox), beat Ken at MLg, and by 2007 I was able to Jv 5 stock players. Like 40 times that year alone, mostly with marth. I've 6-0d PC and 3-4 stocked MANY, MANY top players (i don't want to name drop so I'll just leave it at that), and it was all because of my motivation. When brawl was coming out, I changed to that, but I was the best overall and most accomplished player in that year by far as all of my results since late 2006 to Brawl's release was 1st and 2nd at every small and large tournament.

I switched focus to Brawl. While maining Marth and DDD, I NEVER got below top 2 at any tournament. I won nationals and 6-0d top players with DDD. Hardly anything is recorded of my prime with him so people don't get the full picture but it's no lie. Alongside Ally, I was the top 2 player for 3 straight years (usually 1st, and outside of emo splits and forfeits and besides apex 2012, my lowest ever in brawl was 3rd and lowest in melee since 2008 was 5th). After winning 3 MLGs in a row, (which motivated me to practice and I reached a new level), the 4th MLG I decided to use a backup controller, because I was paranoid that my main purple controller would break, and I forfeit to ADHD cuz I didn't care much and just split with him (being emo cuz i lost to rich). Except, adhd never paid me a single penny, even to this day, which I'm still kind of upset about. I got banned from mlg dallas for a split that never happened as he went on to win 2,500 dollars that tournament. I was saving my controller for mlg dallas, and during a training session 2 weeks before mlg dallas, I was able to 2-3 stock all of WC's best players and i even 3 stocked ally's snake at 30% one of our friendlies w/out gimps (only once ever, but it shows what kind of skill level i had attained at my absolute prime when i had the utmost motivation). It's a shame I got banned from dallas. I had a good advantage to beat anybody at that point in time except rich brown, so I most likely would have won Dallas which would have helped my life and my current bad money situation SO MUCH.

Since being banned from dallas, I've just been an emo, depressed kid. I didn't do anything to prepare for Gen2. I simply saved my best controller, went there, and tried my best. I played really good (because of the controller. I'm serious; that's why).

Then they start talking about banning MK, so I barely go to anything since Gen2 even up to this point in time.

The bad results I've had reflect 2 things. My lack of motivation, and my constantly switching to various backup controllers because I am paranoid of my only good one (my purple one) going bad. I still have this controller, but it's not nearly as good as it was at Gen2 or MLG since it's gotten older and worse. It's probably still my best controller even though it's almost dead though.

Since my first tournament in 2005, the Rock Lee motto has been true with over 90% accuracy almost all the time. There is no way it is coincidence to happen almost every month for 7 years. It's definitely true.

Btw, I did all this through theorycraft and playing computers. If i had a training partner (like how Otori gets to train with Kakera, or Ally gets to play with Holy), I could have probably reached a far, FAR deadlier level, in BOTH games.

I truely 100% believe everything I said and I'm 99% sure it's mostly all true.

 

[Mew2King]

some may have to work harder than others because of various things, like no training partner (me, except for cactuar/lord knight sometimes), little money (me), or natural intelligence (the only one I think I have), but this picture pretty much describes the basic idea you should have

This idea is also what propelled me to the top when I had the best mindset and the most motivation

No way it's all coincidence for 7 years straight

Just
no
way.

 

[-ACE-]

vs



Oh, how my shameful flopmerican education has failed me.

I'm good at smash because I apply my intelligence to my play.
I'm popular(debatable) as a result of my writing and my personality.
I'm a mod as a result of my contributions to the smash community.

You are a nobody to me in smash, so I can't speak either way about your player skill.
You are unpopular on the boards because of your writing and your personality.
You are a joke on the boards as a result of your overall negative contributions to the smash community.

Clown.

But you know. Keep doin what you're doin. Really sticking it to the Americans. On a forum about a video game. That e-peen really needs tending to. I'm sure it'll all eventually end up with your position being "oh, I'm just trolling", which is easily translated to "Oh, I was proven to be a ******, so I'll say I was trolling."

Lol wow. Get ***** mike f@ggar

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

I wear a Bruce Lee shirt to every tournament

Whenever I **** up I stare down at my controller like I'm blaming it. Bruce just stares back at me like "no johns bruh. be like water" and then I move on to my next stock.

 

[LLDL]

Lol wow, the last few pages.

 

[Kal]

Quoting Bruce Lee is sort of ironic, seeing as he was nothing close to an actual fighter, and that his pseudo martial art JKD is actually just plagiarized Chinese philosophy.

Regardless, everything you've posted, M2K, is nothing more than "I trained hard, so it must be the case that training hard wins." But all you've shown is:

1) When you did train hard, you won
2) When you didn't train hard, you didn't win

Not that it's universally true that anyone who trains as hard as possible will become a top player. This isn't hard to understand; yes, you need to practice in order to be good. No, practicing will not guarantee that you will be good. And, ironically trying to provide a counterexample to my point, you present an example that justifies it. You were amazing when you practiced. Now that you don't practice, you are no longer amazing.

You haven't provided any evidence that everyone, or even a good proportion of people, can simply "work at it" until they reach success. And so far, evidence suggests that "natural talent" is a very real thing. Some people are naturally better at certain things, and no amount of 80s training montages will ever overcome that.

 

[Mew2King]

I know it's real, but 99% of the times people put limits on themselves with the illusion they hit their limit when they really didn't EVEN COME CLOSE to their "limit" (which doesn't really even exist). I started off not that great at melee, then i worked and could JV 5 stock players, and 4 stock -A LOT- of GOOD players, all within 2 years a little at a time. It's not a big deal, you just have to put in effort. I think natural talent is pretty overrated. Effort/motivation are FAR, FAR bigger factors. It's not even remotely close. Motivation is the factor that leads to everything.

 

[Divinokage]

Yeah controller is an issue but the MAIN thing that changed in me was motivation. That's the key element that has been deteriorating as time went on, especially after people started caring less. When I was working to the best, I just wanted to show everyone how good I was, and as I got older I started to care less and my skill dropped as my motivation and effort lessened. Ever since I got banned from mlg dallas (my true prime) I have just changed for the worse in every single way and every element of my life went downhill, I've been just an emo kid that wasted a year and a half on his life, lacking confidence to do anything and the situation I have with my ex-gf katie made it even worse (cheated on me 5 times, stole 1,000 dollars from me, among other things, which I all found out later on, despite me doing nothing except being a really good person). I'm not the machine I used to be, and the factors are 1) lack of effort/motivation (MAIN FACTOR) 2) controller (another really big factor, probably just as important as the first factor tbh, but not the point here) 3) my change in my overall happiness with myself and my life (3rd factor but not as big as the other 2). That's the full truth. My lack of confidence in myself is a personal issue I've had I believe due to always questioning myself and the truth in things many times and not being socially interactive with other humans throughout all of elementary, middle, and high school. That's what I think makes the most sense to be the main reasons.

The Good Doctor, mango told me for a long time he thinks he counters me and that I choke a lot and should place a lot higher than I do. I feel like if I was more experienced vs puff I would have done better. The 2 MUs I struggled with the most were (and probably still are) puff and falco. Mango happens to main both of them. I've gotten strong in MUs I had the most experience in (because of cactuar/lord knight), such as Marth/Fox. Some of it may be due to natural style, but a lot of my habits probably came from doing those MUs a lot, so I could get good habits for some MUs but when those habits carry over for other MUs it does not go as well. I still feel like my prime in brawl was the best the game was ever played and my prime in melee could give any player today a good run for their money, but I'm not motivated enough due to a number of factors in my life, which mostly comes down to motivation. The way I see it, motivation leads to effort, and effort leads to improvement, which leads to success. Even if this is only 50% of the reason, that's still a pretty big factor. I think controller and various other things could be the other 50%.

You do have trustworthy smashers at least, you aren't alone. =P And at the very least, you've won with me in teams against Mango.

 

[Sinji]

The food argument to M2k godly post.

10x for M2k numerous post.

 

[Sinji]

The food argument to M2k godly post.

10x for M2k numerous post.

 

[stelzig]

I understand wanting to believe that this whole "Rock Lee" thing works in real life. It makes us feel better. We like to think that, as long as you train hard enough, you can become the best at anything.

Idk, that way of thinking would make any accomplishment feel alot more shallow to me. If we were talking about me specificially, then sure it would be nice. But thinking that anyone could do anything, makes all accomplishments meaningless and unimpressive to me.

Fortunately I agree with the rest of your post

 

[-LzR-]

So how exactly could M2K apply stuff he learned from theorycrafting and playing against CPUs into a real situation? If I was able to do such thing, I would have a ton of potential.