My Recovery tier list.

[PKNintendo]

Updated

10chars

 

[Gindler]

Whats with all the stuff about Double Jump Armour? I don't even think about it when I recover (Hell sometimes I even forget he had that!)

You know what I do when I recover? I AIRDODGE! Egg Toss to close the gap, Double Jump, Airdodge when I get close. Boom! I just went past him unharmed! If the Yoshi knows what he is doing, it makes ANY type of aerial interception impossible! Not only that but the Airdodge also accelerates the Double Jump also!

Excluding today (Which was bull****! Stray fireball breaking the armour at 15%?!?) I can't remember the last time I was gimped that wasn't due to doing something stupid (Poor Judgement)

I'm really disappointed that you forgot about his DJAD Gindler. Thats the most important aspect of his recovery game and pretty much makes his recovery practically ingimpable

Nah, I didn't forget about the DJAD. That's how I usually end up back on stage unscaved since anyone next to you using it won't be able to punish once you get out of the airdodge way above them (as long as you don't do unnecessary air dodges this can only be punished by fast aimable projectiles, and no not din's fire far to slow on lag), I just knew that most people wouldn't agree since most characters djad is mediocre at best.

How people are stupid enough to rely on projectiling Yoshi's 2nd jump when they know it can SA them? Egg tossing can stop edgeguarders? Well, Zelda has Lightning Kick for that.


He gains almost no vertical range. Meteor Canceling with Yoshi using Up B just takes him out of stun, he'll still be helpless to make it back unless he still has his 2nd jump.


With the 2nd jump gone, no matter the amount of egg tossing, you're dead, unless you started off very far above the stage and can pretty much just air control in with a few egg tosses, at which point anyone (almost) could recover doing pretty much the same thing (air control + maybe a recovery boosting move).

Yoshi is not unique in this! But if he's a bit far away from the ledge horizontal-wise and his 2nd jump is gone, he's dead. Maybe characters aren't (Zelda certainly isn't) in situations like this.


Does Yoshi have Super Armor or Juggernaut armor (in which case, he sucks)?


Zelda has no move which randomly disables Up B only, Din's Fire puts her in helpless state, where she can't do anything except air control. None of her other moves do this.


Since when does Yoshi get to move before invincibility ends after airdodging? And if he's whacked afterwards, his 2nd jump is gone and he's a goner.

even with 2nd jump gone and a bit far away from the ledge horizontal wise he'll make it back with proper use of air speed and egg toss recovery...believe it ot not.

Have you ever whacked a yoshi after a DJAD? unless they were pointlessly airdodging than the answer is probably no. Can happen in doubles but nearly never in singles...

As far as ness compared to lucario goes...they both have insanely prioritized fairs making them rather hard to hit, but if ness is slightly below the stage and the opponent is near you you're going to have to use pkt2 and most likely they'll be all over it. So I'd say lucario's may be a little better. I 2nd ness btw so i'm not just some ignorant player saying that you can eat the pkt making ness's one of the worst recoveries in the game, sure I haven't been gimped by an eaten pkt in forever (most recent was the baloon on smashville) but i do know that is can happen.

 

[DanGR]

lol at link above olimar. haha. good stuff. ^_^b

 

[Barge]

If no ones ledge hogging...
Olimar > Link
If someone is ledge hogging, both get owned. Olimar should be above link.

 

[4Serial]

lmao I believe Gannon has a better recovery than Link's. Olimar might too.. I don't know about Ivy, it's relatively easy to gimp him, but he has a lot better distance than Link..
Link for absolute worst.

- a link main

 

[NintenJoe]

Link has the second worse recovery in the game, next to ganondorf. Ivysaur and Olimar's recovery are both better than Link's... especially Olimar.

 

[Yuna]

.
...Excuse me, what? Go use Double Team in the air, and tell me that isn't a significant boost. The fact that you're invincible for the entirety of the movement is also a huge plus.

I'm sorry, what?

even with 2nd jump gone and a bit far away from the ledge horizontal wise he'll make it back with proper use of air speed and egg toss recovery...believe it ot not.

Yes, because the opponent is just going to sit there doing nothing while he recovers.

This is also irrelevant. The discussion at hand is not whether Yoshi can survive, it's how good his recovery is when compare to other people's recoveries. Whack anyone after they've used up their 2nd jump and have them end up in the same spot at the same damage. Who's got the harder time to make it back?

Zelda or Yoshi? Yoshi or Marth? Yoshi or Jigglypuff?

That's what's important, not whether or not it's possible for Yoshi to recover at that point. My point is that it's much harder for Yoshi to recover.

Invincibility eventually ends. It's a yomi. It's not impossible to whack Yoshi out of DJAD, especially not if you throw out a quick move with little lag, leaving you able to follow it up with another move to punish the airdodge. No character is 100% invincible 'til the end of the airdodge and no character has enough time to throw out an attack from an airdodge before anyone can attack them.

It's not easy as cake, but it's not impossible either.

 

[A2ZOMG]

First post.

G&W should be moved up to S tier. Is virtually impossible to edgeguard from below and can get back from pretty much any hit, even semispikes.

Lucas should move down a tier in recovery since you can hit his PK Thunder, or play G&W and gimp him.

King Dedede should have an A rank recovery. He doesn't usually get outright gimped thanks to having an Up-B that goes really far that has SA frames and multiple jumps.

Fox's recovery and Falco's should switch places. Fox has two mediocre recovery moves. Falco has one GOOD recovery move, which matters more.

Sheik's recovery should change places with Zelda's.

Samus's recovery needs to go up at least one tier. I think it's an A ranked recovery myself.

Both Mario and Marth's recovery could go to the bottom of the C tier.

Ganondorf's recovery is better than Link's, and Bowser could have a D tier recovery.

 

[Ilucamy]

I can't read all 17 pages of this thread, so I'm just gonna wonder why Fox is so much higher than Falco. I mean, I don't play either of them, but aren't they the same except Falco's side-B spikes and wouldn't that make him higher than Fox?
My only other guess is that new "Curved Firefox" AT, and how would that push Fox so much higher than Falco?

My second question is why is Lucario higher than Falco? Both their Up-B's have similar startup and range, but Falco's actually does damage, plus he can recover using Side-B as well. The only thing Lucario has is the ability to curve and wallcling, and that's situational based on the stage.

 

[Adapt]

fox can use his fair as a recovery move. Properly done it can be a good boost. I agree that he should be lower than he is placed... but he still is better than Falco imo.

For fun, I brought up an old list I made, and I updated it

Old topic: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4638846

Insane: MK, ROB, Jiggs, Kirby
Sweet: Pit, Sonic, Pikachu, Charizard, Luigi, Wario, Lucas
Great: Samus, G&W, ZSS, TL, Snake, DDD, Diddy, CF, Fox, Peach
Good: Ness, Marth, Mario, Lucario, Squirtle, Falco, DK, Bowser, Zelda, Sheik, ICs
Meh: Wolf, Yoshi, Ike, Ganondorf
Terrible: Link, Olimar, Ivy

 

[Zylar]

Okay, before I even consider coming to this thread again, I'm going to ask that someone (RESPECTABLE AND KNOWN FOR BEING KNOWLEDGEALBE) describes the different aspects of what makes a good recovery. Also knowing what is a bad recovery works just as well. (Except backwards) Then we can tally points for and against specific moves as recovery moves and then an over character as a whole.

 

[Oracle]

The aspects of a good recovery
- Distance
Duh.
- Versatility
This basically means having options. You want to be unpredictable with your recovery and be able to do things to defend yourself. Good versatility is Jigglypuff for being so floaty as to be able to easily attack in the middle of it while still being able to recover, and MK, because he has 4 good options. Marth falls in this category because he only has one option, his up B, and it's rather predictable.
- Defense
How well does your recovery defend you? Are you safe in your recovery? Good defense recovery usually means good priority, with a large, all encompasing and disjointed hitbox for the up B and other moves.

 

[Levitas]

I'd replace defense with safety, and add speed to the list.

 

[CR4SH]

Excuse me for being uninformed. But what in the world is so great about fox's recovery?

 

[Levitas]

it's pretty good. he's got stalling w/ the shine, an average second jump, and options between the firefox and illusion.

there are some problems with it, like any directional recovery though.

 

[Mmac]

This is also irrelevant. The discussion at hand is not whether Yoshi can survive, it's how good his recovery is when compare to other people's recoveries. Whack anyone after they've used up their 2nd jump and have them end up in the same spot at the same damage. Who's got the harder time to make it back?

Zelda or Yoshi? Yoshi or Marth? Yoshi or Jigglypuff?

That's what's important, not whether or not it's possible for Yoshi to recover at that point. My point is that it's much harder for Yoshi to recover.

How exactly is this a fair judgement when 95% of the time he'll never be hit out of his recovery? This is completely irrelevant because it's only going to happen in rare cases. It's not a common problem.

Invincibility eventually ends. It's a yomi. It's not impossible to whack Yoshi out of DJAD, especially not if you throw out a quick move with little lag, leaving you able to follow it up with another move to punish the airdodge. No character is 100% invincible 'til the end of the airdodge and no character has enough time to throw out an attack from an airdodge before anyone can attack them.

It's not easy as cake, but it's not impossible either.

Yoshi can airdodge at any given time, so he will usually save his airdodge when he is close to the opponent. Also, where are you basing this off of? An aerial interception? From the Ledge itself? Any case you'll only have one shot, and even that is practically impossible

Yoshi's recovery is unique because his Recovery effectiveness is completely based on the players judgement. Nobody can really gimp Yoshi, unless he screws up. Aerial Interception is impossible no matter what character Yoshi is against, and staying on the stage is just as hard to intercept.

 

[_clinton]

Here. Once you can get Ness or Lucas to do this, come back here and repeat that sentence. Until then, just stop arguing this point right now.

Maybe I should explain it better when I said they can climb walls...I mean Ness can do things like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lpdm8wgSNg
2:11 and 2:18

Oh and btw...if you can do that video in a real tournament match...then I'll be impressed by that 360 wall ok...but the thing is...right now...I happen to see Lucario's wall cling and wall jump as only one part of his recovery tricks...

Except Lucario doesn't get automatically gimped when someone jumps above him, and won't die automatically when he's hit with any weak move after his double jump. He also gets his recovery special back after being hit with a projectile during it, meaning that he won't suffer from the reduced range that Ness gets when he gets smacked by projectiles during his recovery. Also, Lucas's and Ness's PK Thunder 2 moves are NOT in any way, shape, or form even close to as maneuverable as Lucario's, and Ness's is in NO way, shape, or form even close to being as reliable.

Actually the reduced range that Ness' PKT2 can get only works at the start of it...during the special frames...at around the 1/2 mark most projectiles start to hit Ness when he is flying...thus giving him his recovery move back...

Oh and Ness doesn't get gimped by someone automatically jumping over Ness' head...fun fact...you are in control over when to use the thunder...

Oh and please watch that video to see what you can do with their thunder recoveries ok (well at least Ness' anyway)

Lucario's ledgesnap is on par or greater than Ness's. Lucas's tether recovery is irrelevant, as he is unable to use it after performing his recovery special, and for a tether, it has very limited range, opposed to Lucario's Wall Cling which can be done from a variety of angles and from quite a distance away.

Lucas' tether does not have very limited range...it beats Link's and Tink's overall for one thing...

Yoshi's Island(kinda), Final Destination, Pictochat, Green Greens, Halberd (Part 2), Battlefield (Okay, you can't recover from there, but it counts!), Castle Siege, Pokemon Stadium 1, Brinstar (when connector thingy is broken), Corneria (like you'll ever use it, but wtfever), Distant Planet, Frigate Orpheon (<3 Frigate), Green Hill Zone (when floor breaks), Norfair (the bottommost platform), Pokemon Stadium 2, Rainbow Cruise (various), Yoshi's Island Melee (Pipes, and the spinning block hole), Onett (useless, but meh), Port Town Aero Drive (During certain areas).
And that's only the legal stages.

Ok...let me say it again
How about we look at which stages that is useful on...at least in a way

1. FD
2. YI (both)
3. PC
4. GGs
5. Halberd (p.2)
6. Castle seige is only on Part 1 actually
7. Frigate Orpheon
8. Yoshi's Island Melee

Ness's recovery is worse than lucarios. Lucas's is much better. and yes, his pkt2 is considerably more reliable than ES.

I feel that Ness' may be worse then Lucario's...but it isn't by much...

Lucas's? Debatable. Ness's? Hell no.

Lucas' is not debatable...

 

[_clinton]

... in the same rank
! by one rank
!! by two ranks
!!! by three ranks

Rank S
Metaknight
Rob

Rank A
Jigglypuff
Wario
Kirby
Lucas
Sonic
Pikachu
Game and Watch

Rank B
Pit- ! to low-I've been thinking about how fast Pit's glide is...I think he should be in rank A because of that...
King DDD
Toon Link
Luigi
Fox
Lucario -! To high Wall Cling isn't useable in 17 or so stages like certain people say it is...I'm pretty sure it only has good use in 8 of them actually...
Diddy Kong
ZSS -! To high Her "3rd jump" can only be recharged from hitting the ground...she may have the longest tether in the game...but it is still a tether...Well...she has the skill to wall cling as well...that might help in some stages...still
Charizard

Rank C
Zelda
Snake
Ice Climbers
Princess Peach
Sheik
Samus- !! to low- I can see you haven't payed attn to the 50 or so posts in this thread saying Samus should be higher...
Falco
Yoshi
Squirtle
DK

Rank D
Ness - ! to Low- I guess you didn't see my small novel about Ness' recovery huh?
Mario
Captain Falcon
Marth
Wolf -! to low- You don't seem to know that this one is better then Falco's right?
Ike


Rank E
Bowser
Link- ...to high-check below
Ivysaur
Olimar-...to low-Olimar gets like 2x the horizontal distance of Ivysaur...it's actually the same as Mario's total on a low ground horizontal test I did
Ganondorf
Open to change.

I'd like to point out one thing about Ivysaur and Olimar...in order to gimp them...you have to grab the ledge preventing their ropes from snapping on to it...in order to gimp Link...you just have to knock him off...still better then Ganondorf's though

BTW I think we should break up the Ice Climbers and account for when you have a solo climber ok?

 

[Matador]

Why's Mario so low? He's at least mid C. At least on par with Lucario, ZSS, or Zelda....unless we're generalizing.

 

[Kitamerby]

I'm sorry, what?

Sorry, I worded it funny. Upon activation, Lucario is invincible for the duration of his sliding kick.

My second question is why is Lucario higher than Falco? Both their Up-B's have similar startup and range, but Falco's actually does damage, plus he can recover using Side-B as well. The only thing Lucario has is the ability to curve and wallcling, and that's situational based on the stage.

*see earlier rant*

Maybe I should explain it better when I said they can climb walls...I mean Ness can do things like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lpdm8wgSNg
2:11 and 2:18

That is nothing like wall clinging, and you know it.

Oh and btw...if you can do that video in a real tournament match...then I'll be impressed by that 360 wall ok...but the thing is...right now...I happen to see Lucario's wall cling and wall jump as only one part of his recovery tricks...

More than I can say for Ness or Lucas.

Actually the reduced range that Ness' PKT2 can get only works at the start of it...during the special frames...at around the 1/2 mark most projectiles start to hit Ness when he is flying...thus giving him his recovery move back...

Then the next projectile will hit the head and-

Oh and Ness doesn't get gimped by someone automatically jumping over Ness' head...fun fact...you are in control over when to use the thunder...

Just hover around him, or just simply wack him with a weak knockback move. Either way, he's dead.

Oh and please watch that video to see what you can do with their thunder recoveries ok (well at least Ness' anyway)

So what? You can ledgesnap and bounce off the wall. So can I, except mine is actually effective, user friendly, and outright usable in real matches rather than only in exhibitions.

Lucas' tether does not have very limited range...it beats Link's and Tink's overall for one thing...

That's not saying much.

Ok...let me say it again
How about we look at which stages that is useful on...at least in a way

1. FD
2. YI (both)
3. PC
4. GGs
5. Halberd (p.2)
6. Castle seige is only on Part 1 actually
7. Frigate Orpheon
8. Yoshi's Island Melee

9. Pokemon Stadium 1
10. Pokemon Stadium 2
11. Rainbow Cruise
12. Pictochat
13. Port Town Aero Drive
14. Distant Planet
15. Green Greens
16. Norfair

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt on Corneria and Brinstar, too.

I feel that Ness' may be worse then Lucario's...but it isn't by much...

You feel wrong.

Lucas' is not debatable...

Yes, it is.

Why's Mario so low? He's at least mid C. At least on par with Lucario, ZSS, or Zelda....unless we're generalizing.

*dies laughing*

 

[Matador]

*dies laughing*

Niiiice. I take it you've never fought a good Mario before.

I honestly found Lucario's recovery being better than more than half of the cast the funniest thing about this thread.

 

[Kitamerby]

Niiiice. I take it you've never fought a good Mario before.

I honestly found Lucario's recovery being better than more than half of the cast the funniest thing about this thread.

HAHAHAHAHA-

-Oh wait, you're serious? Mario's recovery is shit compared to Lucario's. There's absolutely no denying it. Sure, his recovery special and cape may make his recovery just a little tiny bit safer than Lucario's, but that doesn't matter if you can't REACH the ledge!

Meanwhile, Lucario has a truckload of options when returning to the stage, along with mixups, and the ability to simply drift back to the stage due to Lucario's floatiness, often not even needing his second jump.


With Mario? You can save your second jump, and you STILL may not make it back! That's not a good sign.

 

[Irow]

How did Mario's recovery end up higher than Marth's? That doesn't make sense. It's slower and has worse range. Plus it's a lof safer coming back with Marth because he can swat people trying to attack him easier than Mario.

I do agree that Lucario's recovery is better than Mario's. He can normally just drift to the stage, not even needing to use his up-b. But I will say that Lucario's Up-B is pretty bad alone.

 

[Yuna]

How exactly is this a fair judgement when 95% of the time he'll never be hit out of his recovery? This is completely irrelevant because it's only going to happen in rare cases. It's not a common problem.

We're comparing recoveries. I'm listing cons. Deal with it.

Yoshi can airdodge at any given time, so he will usually save his airdodge when he is close to the opponent. Also, where are you basing this off of? An aerial interception? From the Ledge itself? Any case you'll only have one shot, and even that is practically impossible

Yes, because, obviously, Yoshi will always win the guessing game. He'll have the reflexes to airdodge everything on reaction if the opponent jumps out with a fakeout and then waits for the airdodge to end to punish.

Yoshi's recovery is unique because his Recovery effectiveness is completely based on the players judgement. Nobody can really gimp Yoshi, unless he screws up. Aerial Interception is impossible no matter what character Yoshi is against, and staying on the stage is just as hard to intercept.

Yes, obviously. Yoshi's recovery is Top Tier! He can never be edgeguarded!

 

[Kitamerby]

But I will say that Lucario's Up-B is pretty bad alone.

On the surface, it does seem that way. However, upon closer inspection, Lucario's Up B has immense range, an incredible ledgesnap range, the ability to wall cling at ANY point during the move, and it possesses incredible maneuverability.

Only ROB, Pit, and Lucario are the golden 3 who are able to recover from being directly under Final Destination with only their Up B left.

 

[Levitas]

Don't claim incredible range and incredibe manuverability in the same sentence. A max length recovery demands no manuverability. And the more you manuver it, the less net displacement you get off of ES. You laughed at me the last time I said that, maybe now you'll actually read what I'm posting instead of what you think I'm posting.

What the hell kind of player leaves themself directly below FD with only an up b? wait, nevermind that. I think what you meant to say was that only ROB gets back because he doesn't get gimped easy as hell from that position like both pit and lucario.

I never meant to claim that ness can wall cling. I was talking about curving into the slopes, so was clinton, and we were referring to the ability to curve ness/lucas's up b's.

And as far as a terrible tether lenth is concerned, you need to restate that to say surprising. It is FAR greater than his grab lenth. like on the magnitude of 4 times as long. Someone find a video of a max lenth lucas tether to surprise him with.

 

[Browny]

hardly. manourverability isnt limited to pulling tight circles, the fact that lucarios upb can go full length in a whole range of directions, not just upwards or horizontal makes it very manouvreable (omg spelling that word is impossible)

ROBs upb is very manouvreable too, but its net distance will be decreased if you go in circles as well.

 

[Tenki]

What the hell kind of player leaves themself directly below FD with only an up b? wait, nevermind that.

Just because I want to,

sliding grab on edge> pummel release (drop opponent).

If opponent double jumps immediately, grab> pummel release.

Your opponent is now under the stage.

If your opponent doesn't double jump immediately, react accordingly.

 

[jaap]

(original post at page 10, copy at page 15)

my tier list is still open for discussion.
ill post it again so it wont get ignored .

here it is:

Rank S
Meta knight
R.O.B
Jigglypuff

Rank A
Kirby
Pit
Lucas
Wario
Sonic
King Dedede
Luigi
Pikachu
Game and Watch

Rank B
Samus
Fox
Diddy Kong
Toon Link
Charizard

Rank C
Peach
Ice Climbers
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus
Wolf
Yoshi
Sheik
Lucario
Falco
Ness
Marth

Rank D
Captain Falcon
Mario
Donkey Kong
Bowser
Squirtle
Ike

Rank E
Olimar
Ivysaur
Ganondorf
Link

like it or not ? always open for change. also say why he/she has a gd recovery
i also changed it a bit, again

 

[_clinton]

That is nothing like wall clinging, and you know it.

Right it isn’t it is something else that has situation uses…kind of like Wall Clinging…fun fact…I was talking about how Lucario can curve his UP B for this ok…

*see earlier rant*

I agree…how anyone can say Falco’s is better and should be put in C is odd overall to me…

More than I can say for Ness or Lucas.

Yeah…whatever you say…

Lucario
1. Stall fall with down air…pretty much worthless IMO for Lucario…unlike with other characters that can do it…due to how his recovery works
2. Wall Cling and Wall Jump…situational…but still the best one in the game
3. A Recovery move that has the same horizontal and vertical distance as Ness’ overall…tries to make up for not having a hit box by being able to cling to a wall as the move is still going
4. Maybe if you’re lucky and you use it right…Double Team can help his recovery…but you yourself said you wouldn’t recommend it…I feel I should point that out…
5. His double jumps horizontal range is almost the same as Ness’ because of how floaty he is…however vertical range nothing at all special really…
6. A great ledgesnap…it’s not like 90% of the cast doesn’t have one as well though…

Oh my 2 of them I feel are in point…almost worthless…

Ness
1. Can stall his fall with PSI magnet…one of the best in the game…which isn’t saying much…because only a few characters can stall their falls as well as doing it well (I was able to do it 25 times with Fox on FD before dying…but 2nd place (Samus) was only able to get 15 moves in…and then 3rd place (Lucas) had 8 moves)…His stall is close to Lucario’s though…
Along with stalling the fall Ness can push the magnet forward…aiding his horizontal recovery…not by much…but again…he is one of the few that can do that…
2. A recovery move...distance wise it ties with Lucario…however the set up time needed to use it is actually around the same as Fox’s, and Falco’s…however the distance can be cut if it hits something and doesn’t stop from that thing…plus he is open as the bolt is moving…but to be fair…It’s not like Lucario isn’t safe from attacks as he is moving as well…
3. His 2nd jump is insane ok…you don’t even need his recovery move most of the time…because of what you can do with this jump and his magnet…horizontal and vertical points are both high…not just one over the other…because of his air stats…
4. A great ledgesnap as well…but again…

And Lucas has more then Ness…in everything actually

Then the next projectile will hit the head and-

Maybe cut the distance short on the move…which would be enough to grab the ledge most of the time…PK Thunder is a last resort move…

Just hover around him, or just simply wack him with a weak knockback move. Either way, he's dead.

I’m glad you feel safe hovering around someone who can hit you with a 30% kill move…oh and It’s not like Ness’ air game isn’t safe ok…

So what? You can ledgesnap and bounce off the wall. So can I, except mine is actually effective, user friendly, and outright usable in real matches rather than only in exhibitions.

Climbing walls is actually pretty easy to do with Thunder actually…overall once you get pasted the learning curves with the PK Thunders…it is pretty easy…
Except in Wifi…

That's not saying much.

4 horizontal Blocks for a rope when using Magnet once isn’t saying much?
Lucario’s recovery move has 7 blocks just to let you know…

9. Pokemon Stadium 1
16. Norfair

I said Pictochat and Green Greens…
PC and GGs….

Distanct Planet and Norfair have pass through platform…but I’ll take it…I’m pretty sure two blocks for Rainbow Cruise/Port Town doesn’t really help Lucario that much to make a magically difference…
Not sure about the others like PS1 and 2…but I’ll take your word for them…so…

1. FD
2. YI
3. YI
4. PC
5. GGs
6. Halberd
7. Castle Seige
8. FO
9. PS1
10. PS2
11. DP
12. NF

Not much still

 

[Mmac]

We're comparing recoveries. I'm listing cons. Deal with it.

But you are forcing it like it's a major problem, when It's hardly a problem at all due to how unlikely the scenario is. It's like saying that Game & Watch or Sonic's recovery is bad because if they get grabbed out of it, they're dead.

Yes, because, obviously, Yoshi will always win the guessing game. He'll have the reflexes to airdodge everything on reaction if the opponent jumps out with a fakeout and then waits for the airdodge to end to punish.

You really don't understand how Yoshi's recovery works at all. Infact, I think you missed the common fact of Dodging in general. You are assuming that as soon as you make any form of reaction, Yoshi is going to Airdodge right away, regardless of the distance he is away from the opponent. Thats like saying to Spotdodge a Charge Shot when Samus is about to fire it. You don't Dodge when the Charge Shot is about to fire, you Dodge it when it's about to hit you, and it's the exact same thing here. Yoshi is going to Airdodge when he is close, not because you are throwing out random reactions.

Even if you did this, It won't work. Lets assume that your character has average airspeed, not best, not the worst. Now, Yoshi moves more than Twice as fast as the average person. Now lets say that Yoshi is recovering from a Block lower from the ledge. So you jump towards him, Yoshi Double Jump and Airdodges at the correct distance from your character's range. Now as soon as you see it, you Double Jump backwards to minimize Acceration. Now he's right on you and he's about a quarter into his airdodge. Now either Two things will happen

-He'll get away
-You'll hit him with your Bair (Or Fair if you are a multijump)

Even if you manage to get off a Bair, You're knocking him TO the stage. You can't gimp him that way. Even if it knocks him off on the other side, you have to catch up by Running to the other side of the stage before Yoshi can reach the ledge by either his natural airspeed or his UpB Eggs (Which can also stall your movement). Even all of that, sometimes It's just impossible because his Double Jump sends him too high in the first place, and your character won't be able to keep up in the Y-Axis.

Yes, obviously. Yoshi's recovery is Top Tier! He can never be edgeguarded!

Sarcasm aside, that's exactly what I'm saying.... at least in a defencive aspect.


PS: Anyone notice that Snake isn't on the list?

 

[Matador]

-Oh wait, you're serious? Mario's recovery is shit compared to Lucario's. There's absolutely no denying it. Sure, his recovery special and cape may make his recovery just a little tiny bit safer than Lucario's, but that doesn't matter if you can't REACH the ledge!

Lmao, a little bit safer than Lucario's? Mario's fireballs come down at a much better trajectory that Lucario's aurasphere and protect his descent much more efficiently because he can spam them as he comes down. He has a capestall similar to Lucario's Dair stall, Mario's upB and Uair stage spike consistently, and cape reverses projectiles thrown at him during recovery like Falco's lasers or Yoshi's eggs. Not to mention his best recovery protection option, Fludd, which pushes away incoming edgeguarders or can help him recover if the need arises.

And where's this bull coming from that Mario "can't reach the ledge"? Mario can easily recover from the bottom of FD because of his upB auto-sweetspot much quicker than Lucario could. His horizontal distance isn't bad either because he can DI his upB sort of like how Roy could in melee.

Meanwhile, Lucario has a truckload of options when returning to the stage, along with mixups, and the ability to simply drift back to the stage due to Lucario's floatiness, often not even needing his second jump.

What is this "truckload" of options? Dair stalls and AS? Curving your upB? Seriously?

With Mario? You can save your second jump, and you STILL may not make it back! That's not a good sign.

Bull. You are Sooooo lucky I woke up late. People are gonna accept this garbage as truth.

How did Mario's recovery end up higher than Marth's? That doesn't make sense. It's slower and has worse range. Plus it's a lof safer coming back with Marth because he can swat people trying to attack him easier than Mario.

Lol, Marth's recovery is as predictable as they get. Mario can at least stall his properly, has fireballs, and Fludd to keep opponents away. Marth has...what...Fair? Our upB also spikes on the entire attack and has the power to stagespike at 0%. Don't kid yourself.

I do agree that Lucario's recovery is better than Mario's. He can normally just drift to the stage, not even needing to use his up-b. But I will say that Lucario's Up-B is pretty bad alone.

So MK and ROB are going to let you float back to the stage? They're not going to force you to use that craptastic upB to recover?

k

 

[PKNintendo]

UPDATED! Yeah! W00T

 

[Hive]

kwl!
wait, samus is still c ranked... ; ;

 

[PKNintendo]

But you are forcing it like it's a major problem, when It's hardly a problem at all due to how unlikely the scenario is. It's like saying that Game & Watch or Sonic's recovery is bad because if they get grabbed out of it, they're dead.



You really don't understand how Yoshi's recovery works at all. Infact, I think you missed the common fact of Dodging in general. You are assuming that as soon as you make any form of reaction, Yoshi is going to Airdodge right away, regardless of the distance he is away from the opponent. Thats like saying to Spotdodge a Charge Shot when Samus is about to fire it. You don't Dodge when the Charge Shot is about to fire, you Dodge it when it's about to hit you, and it's the exact same thing here. Yoshi is going to Airdodge when he is close, not because you are throwing out random reactions.

Even if you did this, It won't work. Lets assume that your character has average airspeed, not best, not the worst. Now, Yoshi moves more than Twice as fast as the average person. Now lets say that Yoshi is recovering from a Block lower from the ledge. So you jump towards him, Yoshi Double Jump and Airdodges at the correct distance from your character's range. Now as soon as you see it, you Double Jump backwards to minimize Acceration. Now he's right on you and he's about a quarter into his airdodge. Now either Two things will happen

-He'll get away
-You'll hit him with your Bair (Or Fair if you are a multijump)

Even if you manage to get off a Bair, You're knocking him TO the stage. You can't gimp him that way. Even if it knocks him off on the other side, you have to catch up by Running to the other side of the stage before Yoshi can reach the ledge by either his natural airspeed or his UpB Eggs (Which can also stall your movement). Even all of that, sometimes It's just impossible because his Double Jump sends him too high in the first place, and your character won't be able to keep up in the Y-Axis.



Sarcasm aside, that's exactly what I'm saying.... at least in a defencive aspect.


PS: Anyone notice that Snake isn't on the list?

Umm yeah. He is.

 

[Chis]

You put Link too low. Take it from someone who actually uses him:
> +

Also:

>

 

[MysticKenji]

Distanct Planet...have pass through platform...

Are you not noticing the huge wall under that platform?

 

[Judge Judy]

Mario would be above Squirtle; Mario's recovery is almost as long and Mario is much more difficult to edgeguard; F.L.U.D.D., Cape, Fireballs, invincible Up B, etc.

 

[ShadowLink84]

invincible?
Since when?
It has a frikkish hitbox yes but not invincible.

 

[HeroMystic]

invincible?
Since when?
It has a frikkish hitbox yes but not invincible.

Mario's start-up of Up-B has invincibility frames, meaning it's guaranteed to not get gimped until the attack starts. If you try to gimp him during that, good luck.