My Recovery tier list.

[Uffe]

Wow, are these people ********? Sonic's recovery is one of the hardest to gimp in the game.

Invincibility frames+ability to attack out of it+ability to footstool and wall jump after it+ability to airdodge out of it=Non gimpable.

No, we're not ********. Just ignorant of knowing what Sonic can do. I guess maining the blue hedgehog also makes you arrogant.

 

[Kitamerby]

*sees Lucario below Wolf, ZSS, and Zelda*

*completely discredits list*

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Here we go again with the bias against Falcon...

 

[Nintendevil]

Sonic>G&W
Sonic>Pit

lol 10lol moar 10 lol

 

[Crystanium]

lol 10lol moar 10 lol

Versus Pit?

 

[Dark Sonic]

No, we're not ********. Just ignorant of knowing what Sonic can do. I guess maining the blue hedgehog also makes you arrogant.

Well, before rating a character's recovery shouldn't you...examine that character's recovery?

And I'm just tired of all these "Sonic is teh bottom tierz" kind of ignorant statments (ignorance and stupidity are not the same thing. Ignorance can be fixed).

And yes you could say I'm arrogant for complaining when false things are said about my main with little to no supporting evidence.

Also...I do not believe Sonic's recovery is beeter than Pit's. But I do believe his recovery is better than Game and Watch's (not his up B per say, but his recovery as a whole).

 

[Uffe]

Versus Pit?

I never lol'd at something so bias in my life.

 

[_clinton]

Are you not noticing the huge wall under that platform?

Notice how I listed DP as one of the stages Lucario can use his wall cling at? I guess not but whatever

I'm just saying that...recovery is pretty easy at DP IMO...with like...everyone almost

kwl!
wait, samus is still c ranked... ; ;

Yep…it is BS I know...at least it is B rank now...which is still Bull

Only a silly Sonic would do that, probably by accident. Not really a down point.

Which is why Snoic users don't Side B when they don't ahve a second jump off stage.

That isn't the point...I'm saying one of his options gets turned off w/o a double jump to cancel it...

B:If it locks it will help him recover >_>
BV:Spinshot...
B>:Spinshot and the hop
↑B:Obvious...

You're full of ignorance.
neutralB=halts momentum and if locked on helps him recover more. Non locked on gives him some horizontal distance.

side B=spinshot or side B to jump cancel which travels farther.
DownB: spinshot
^B: Obvious.

Oh my…more users who doesn’t read…

I said he can use all of his options…however I was saying that 2 of them suck

Please note…

The homing attack sucks...get low then air dodge to see what I mean...or have him crash on the stage (not hitting anything other then the floor)
His Down B is worse in this case compared to his side B...his side B is down B 2.0 in the air…

However…to go on…

lrn2spnsht

May I ask what is the point of Down B if the side B has Spin shot as well?

His most vulnerable state is when he lands after a homing attack.

Which is what I said…it is pretty easy to do btw…

 

[_clinton]

Again...

...in the level
! by one level
!! by two levels
!!! by three levels

Rank S
Metaknight
Rob
Jigglypuff

Rank A
Kirby
Wario-...to low-I've been thinking about it...and Wario's is better then Kirby's IMO...The Bike really gives him about the same horizontal distance as Kirby's full thing in my low range Horizontal test...and for vertical recovery...they tie again...but then Wario also has his down B...so...Wario being better...really isn't by much
Game and Watch
Lucas-...to low-Lucas can actually beat G&W in range (by far) using Zap Jump and Magnet Pull...but even w/o it...he beats him using Magnet stall, his 2nd jump, and Thunder...I guess G&W can attack...but That isn't enough...Lucas and Ness most of the time don't need to use Thunder...
Sonic-...to low-Also Beats G&W...horizontally and vertically...but also can attack as well...
Pikachu-...to low-Pikachu should be right by Kirby...they tie for total horizontal and vertical distance pretty much...only Kirby beats him by 1/2 of a block...
Pit

Rank B
King DDD
Toon Link
Luigi
Fox
Diddy Kong
ZSS- ! To High-1st off...may I please find out how on earth you like her's more then Samus'?
Lucario-! To high-Again...the fact that 2 of his tricks are overall worthless...and one is very limited...one has odd handicaps...and him having a good 2nd jump when it comes to horizontal range do not make him B...oh and that info about not using his 2nd jump may have some ground to it...but you can say that with a lot of characters...still he'll use it before they will more then likly...
Samus-! To low-again on this...

Rank C
Zelda-...To high-Her Up B is actually easy to mess with for the most part...but her 2nd jump isn't really anything special as well...to give a point...Mario and Luigi have better ones...but other then that...most of the time...knowing where she is going with that Wind...is easy...
Snake
Ice Climbers-Still say we should have a Solo Climber spot
Princess Peach-...to high- Horizontal recovery doesn't mean as much as vertical recovery in the long run...haven't you figured it out yet? 90% of the cast has better horizontal recovery then vertical recovery...I wonder why?
Sheik-...to high-Fun fact...while her Up B is better then Zelda's IMO...she has some odd handicaps...her rope...while long is an SD if she misses...her 2nd jump is ok...strong on vertical range...somewhat low on horizontal...
Charizard
Ness
DK
Yoshi-...to low-The fact that UP B makes it so he doesn't have to use the best 2nd jump in the game says something...
Squirtle
Mario

Rank D
Falco
Captain Falcon
Marth
Wolf
Ike

Rank E
Bowser
Ivysaur
Olimar
Link
Ganondorf

 

[•Col•]

Here we go again with the bias against Falcon...

Eh? Bias? >_>

Pretty much everyone agrees Captain Falcon is awesome... There's simply nothing great about his recovery though... D:

 

[.CMW.]

This list is largely swing and miss. Lots of good placements and lots of "WTF?!" placements. 5/10.

.CMW.



*Totally off topic but I don't want to start a new thread. How do I get those character faces that a lot of people have in their signatures?*

 

[Dark Sonic]

That isn't the point...I'm saying one of his options gets turned off w/o a double jump to cancel it...

So?? His up B is more than enough to make it back to the stage, side B is just icing on the cake.

May I ask what is the point of Down B if the side B has Spin shot as well?

Down B is easier to spin shot, and even if you don't spinshot, it has far more priority, allowing it to eat through projectile edgeguards (like Din's fire, Pit's arrows, ect).

Which is what I said…it is pretty easy to do btw…

I don't get why so many use homming attack so stupidly. It's not a primary method of recovery, it is a secondary and inferior method that should only be used occasionally, if at all.

 

[_clinton]

So?? His up B is more than enough to make it back to the stage, side B is just icing on the cake.

Side B is much more then just icying to a point (or there is a lot of icying on this cake) it ups his horizontal range from high up a lot higher up...but...I'm going to point out why Spin Shot is overall worthless in Sonic's recovery right now...

Sonic's recovery w/o the Side B on a level 1 horizontal test...9 small blocks
with just the right use of side B and then his jump and spring...11 blocks
With the spin shot and spring...11 blocks

Just Freefalling on a level 10...8.5
Side B on a level 10...14
Spin Shot on a level 10...14

Level's mean blocks...

So a level 1 is a single block off the ground...with blocks on level 1 level...
And a level 10 is 10 blocks off the ground...keeping the same level 1 blocks...

Fun fact...I still have my 2nd jump when I'm using Side B...

I'll give you the stage I'm using for this if you want to see it...

Down B is easier to spin shot, and even if you don't spinshot, it has far more priority, allowing it to eat through projectile edgeguards (like Din's fire, Pit's arrows, ect).

Down B has higher priority? I've always felt that Side B and that little hop it has suits me better...or just an air dodge...from my 2nd jump cancel...

Still...other then speed maybe...what is the point of spin jump (for recovery)?

I don't get why so many use homing attack so stupidly. It's not a primary method of recovery, it is a secondary and inferior method that should only be used occasionally, if at all.

I don't like the Homing attack as well and I also feel it is a poor secondary (the worse one actually as far as 2nds go)...can't see why people bring it up when they talk about Sonic's recovery and it's good points...Because the Homing attack isn't one of them...

Anyway I'm hoping this can let you see why Sonic's Side B is so much better then his Down B...

 

[Afropony]

This list is largely swing and miss. Lots of good placements and lots of "WTF?!" placements. 5/10.

.CMW.



*Totally off topic but I don't want to start a new thread. How do I get those character faces that a lot of people have in their signatures?*

OK to get the little picture of the character that you want do this...
Step1: Go to your user profile.
Step2: Click on "About Me" you should see a list of things saying; clan, MSN adress and so on.
Step3: look around the middle of the list and you should see "Smash Character" click on the little gold bar next to it and you will be able to choose whoever you want

Also about this tier list I think it's hard for it to be perfect because some characters recoveries are a lot better then others in some ways but in another way may not be as good (like DK)

 

[Kitamerby]

Again...

...in the level
! by one level
!! by two levels
!!! by three levels

Your descriptions for Sheik, Lucario, Yoshi, and Wario are just plain wrong.

Right it isn’t it is something else that has situation uses…kind of like Wall Clinging…fun fact…I was talking about how Lucario can curve his UP B for this ok…

Wall clinging is nowhere NEAR as situational as anything Ness can do with PKT. Lucario's curve is also not situational. It's sheer maneuverability and ability to completely avoid obstacles is something that many characters would kill to have.

3. A Recovery move that has the same horizontal and vertical distance as Ness’ overall…tries to make up for not having a hit box by being able to cling to a wall as the move is still going

Both moves can be easily edgehogged. What does it matter whether a move has a hitbox or not if you have invincibility frames, anyways? Lucario isn't missing out anything.

4. Maybe if you’re lucky and you use it right…Double Team can help his recovery…but you yourself said you wouldn’t recommend it…I feel I should point that out…

Actually, I do recommend using the move that way, but only very rarely should your opponent predict you. It may work once or twice in a match, but after that I would be very wary about using it.

5. His double jumps horizontal range is almost the same as Ness’ because of how floaty he is…however vertical range nothing at all special really…

Lucario has more horizontal resistance than vertical, and with proper DI it shouldn't be a problem. Also, vertical recovery issues are nullified by wall cling.

6. A great ledgesnap…it’s not like 90% of the cast doesn’t have one as well though…

Lucario's ledgesnap is not "good." It's good compared to everyone else. It's a **** good ledgesnap.

Oh my 2 of them I feel are in point…almost worthless…

Only two of them are not in point, and you've forgotten curving, as well as Lucario's floatiness.

1. Can stall his fall with PSI magnet…one of the best in the game…which isn’t saying much…because only a few characters can stall their falls as well as doing it well (I was able to do it 25 times with Fox on FD before dying…but 2nd place (Samus) was only able to get 15 moves in…and then 3rd place (Lucas) had 8 moves)…His stall is close to Lucario’s though…

So? What the hell is he going to need a stall for? Nobody starts edgehogging Ness until they hear "PEEKAY THUNDER" first.

2. A recovery move...distance wise it ties with Lucario…however the set up time needed to use it is actually around the same as Fox’s, and Falco’s…however the distance can be cut if it hits something and doesn’t stop from that thing…plus he is open as the bolt is moving…but to be fair…It’s not like Lucario isn’t safe from attacks as he is moving as well…

Curving makes him much harder to hit and allows him to either go for the stage or the wall if the ledge is taken.

4. A great ledgesnap as well…but again…

I don't believe it's as good as Lucario's, though.

And Lucas has more then Ness…in everything actually

Agreed.

Maybe cut the distance short on the move…which would be enough to grab the ledge most of the time…PK Thunder is a last resort move…

Actually, I was talking about the head of PKT, not Ness, though that would screw him over, too..

I’m glad you feel safe hovering around someone who can hit you with a 30% kill move…oh and It’s not like Ness’ air game isn’t safe ok…

A 30% kill move that takes 5 years to start up and is instant death for him if he tries it due to him being unable to recover AT ALL no matter how little he's knocked back after trying.

Climbing walls is actually pretty easy to do with Thunder actually…overall once you get pasted the learning curves with the PK Thunders…it is pretty easy…
Except in Wifi…

It's useful, but saying that Ness's "wall climbing" is anything nearly as good as Lucario's wall cling is foolhardy.

4 horizontal Blocks for a rope when using Magnet once isn’t saying much?
Lucario’s recovery move has 7 blocks just to let you know…

You can't rope snake out of the magnet, and Lucario gets 12 blocks if done at a more vertical angle instead of horizontal.

I said Pictochat and Green Greens…
PC and GGs….

Distanct Planet and Norfair have pass through platform…but I’ll take it…I’m pretty sure two blocks for Rainbow Cruise/Port Town doesn’t really help Lucario that much to make a magically difference…
Not sure about the others like PS1 and 2…but I’ll take your word for them…so…

1. FD
2. YI
3. YI
4. PC
5. GGs
6. Halberd
7. Castle Seige
8. FO
9. PS1
10. PS2
11. DP
12. NF

Not much still

Rainbow Cruise's walls when the stage becomes a giant platform near the end can be clung to as a last resort. I've been saved at least 3 times in tournament matches from those walls.

Actually, let's look at all the other legal stages that Lucario can die off the bottom boundary via gimping without walls (realistically)...

Battlefield (Luc ***** here, anyways)
Luigi's Mansion (Lucario's best stage)
Smashville
Skyworld (Banned in many places)
Brinstar
Jungle Japes (Arguably another of Lucario's best stages)

That's 13 good wall clingable stages vs. 5 stages that he can be gimped on. Two of them are among his best stages, another is simply a great stage for him, even if it isn't the best, and you'll never face a gimper on Brinstar, as only Snake and DK will ever pick it against you.


In other words, you shouldn't have recovery problems on anywhere but Smashville and MAYBE Battlefield, and possibly Skyworld provided it isn't banned.

So yeah, you can only cling to save yourself on 13 stages. However, when there are only 18 stages that you'll ever be able to reasonably die off the bottom boundary due to gimping, and 2 of those stages you can't cling two are the ones YOU'LL be counterpicking, I don't think that Lucario's wall cling is anything near as useless as you make it out to be.

 

[Peregrinus Falconidae]

Kitamerby I thank you for doing a thorough job of arguing Lucario's recovery vs. Ness. It was very well written and it means I don't have to write my own version!

 

[Kitamerby]

Kitamerby I thank you for doing a thorough job of arguing Lucario's recovery vs. Ness. It was very well written and it means I don't have to write my own version!

There're still better recoveries than Lucario. Lucas's completely trumps Lucario's for example. I just think it's better than Ness's, at least. <<

 

[CR4SH]

Which is what I said…it is pretty easy to do btw…

Just felt I needed to point out. How easy something is to screw up is fairly irrelevant. What's important is how easy is it to do right? Unless its REALLY difficult to do, any character mainer will do it consistently, screwups shouldn't even be considered in evaluating recovery.

Example of recovery method thats REALLY difficult to do. Luigi's rising tornado without using the second jump. Technically, you can get just exactly as high, you just have to be a robot to do it. Most people can't do much more than break even.

 

[Judge Judy]

Just felt I needed to point out. How easy something is to screw up is fairly irrelevant. What's important is how easy is it to do right? Unless its REALLY difficult to do, any character mainer will do it consistently, screwups shouldn't even be considered in evaluating recovery.

Example of recovery method thats REALLY difficult to do. Luigi's rising tornado without using the second jump. Technically, you can get just exactly as high, you just have to be a robot to do it. Most people can't do much more than break even.

Luigi's tornado is still WAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY easier to rise than Melee's. It's not that hard to get full or near full height in Brawl.

PS: Besides Ness's long DJ he has nothing good about his recovery.

 

[bludhoundz]

Do you know anything about Sonic? At all?

For making it back down Sonic has up B->dair, leaving the spring as a cover for him. It may not be G&W's dair, but that doesn't matter because that has absolutely nothing to do with his recovery, as that's just part of on stage fighting (which is not what we're rating now is it?)

Sonic is actually harder to hit out of his recovery than game and watch, because his recovery is a lot more variable (since he can jump cancel his spins/spinshot/HA/wall jump/ect.) And Game and Watch's ironically caries you with him, making it easier to hit him at the top of it.

No, I don't know anything about Sonic. At all. That's why I'm arguing against him, because I'm so ignorant about him. [/sarcasm]

The reason G&W's dair is important to his recovery is if he recovers high by using his Up B early and parachuting over the stage. Sonic does NOT have a recovery option like this, because his Up B does not float, so he's not going to be recovering high, generally. Also his dair is not as good for making it back onto the stage because it is more punishable.

Okay, Sonic has more moves to recover. His homing B attack is situational but CAN help. Honestly I feel this move will rarely be adding to his recovery. If I saw my opponent starting this move, I'd probably set myself up to gimp them. But it will not be unusable 100% of the time - it can definitely help here and there.

Side b / down b adds a little jump to his recovery. It's nothing big. OK, fine, that helps a little. A few high priority frames to help save you from projectiles. G&W has the bucket to deal with that. If someone comes offstage to gimp you, like ROB or MK, this priority boost isn't going to help, because they have disjointed hitboxes to gimp you with.

Sonic's up B covers more vertical distance than G&W's. However it does not: push opponents away to avoid gimps, float afterwards (adds immense horizontal recovery), or sweetspot the edge.

Sweetspotting the edge is a really really good tool for G&W. It allows him to recover low with almost 0 chance of being gimped. As long as he is high enough to go above the edge when someone tries to grab it from him, he will be fine. The fact that it pushes opponents up does NOT leave him vulnerable at the peak, because he sweetspot the edge right into his invincibility frames. Neat, huh?

Sonic's recovery is definitely more variable. I cannot argue that. However there are only so many variations to it, depending on the situation. Unpredictability is good, and it makes you harder to gimp, but it doesn't actually mean your opponent cannot gimp you, it just makes you harder to read. Your opponent will still guess right sometimes. However linear G&W's recovery is, it works. It is pretty much unpunishable and it is very hard to get into a position to gimp it.

Also as much as you might not agree, I believe aerial moveset DOES play a role in recovery. The fact that G&W has insane aerials helps his recovery. Recovery moves are not the only moves that have influence over how well your character can recover. Gimpers beware, because he has huge disjointed hitboxes that stay out, and guard him from possible attacks. You said that dair has nothing to do with recovery, but it does. So do all the aerials, because if you are trying to avoid being gimped (which is part of how good recovery is), you might need to throw a move out to keep your opponent out of your face.

Now I'm not a G&W main or a Sonic main. I don't dislike either of these characters either. I'm being unbiased here. Don't take this as Sonic hate or underrating. Yeah, he is a character that often gets the shaft, because people don't know him so well and that ends up getting you guys to be defensive about the options he does have. I've noticed. I'm stating my opinion in my full knowledge of both characters, which is rather equal, since I don't main either of them but I have played against them both many times, and I'm aware of their recovery capabilities. Sonic's recovery is GOOD. I just think G&W's is better.

 

[Judge Judy]

No, I don't know anything about Sonic. At all. That's why I'm arguing against him, because I'm so ignorant about him. [/sarcasm]

The reason G&W's dair is important to his recovery is if he recovers high by using his Up B early and parachuting over the stage. Sonic does NOT have a recovery option like this, because his Up B does not float, so he's not going to be recovering high, generally. Also his dair is not as good for making it back onto the stage because it is more punishable.

Okay, Sonic has more moves to recover. His homing B attack is situational but CAN help. Honestly I feel this move will rarely be adding to his recovery. If I saw my opponent starting this move, I'd probably set myself up to gimp them. But it will not be unusable 100% of the time - it can definitely help here and there.

Side b / down b adds a little jump to his recovery. It's nothing big. OK, fine, that helps a little. A few high priority frames to help save you from projectiles. G&W has the bucket to deal with that. If someone comes offstage to gimp you, like ROB or MK, this priority boost isn't going to help, because they have disjointed hitboxes to gimp you with.

Sonic's up B covers more vertical distance than G&W's. However it does not: push opponents away to avoid gimps, float afterwards (adds immense horizontal recovery), or sweetspot the edge.

Sweetspotting the edge is a really really good tool for G&W. It allows him to recover low with almost 0 chance of being gimped. As long as he is high enough to go above the edge when someone tries to grab it from him, he will be fine. The fact that it pushes opponents up does NOT leave him vulnerable at the peak, because he sweetspot the edge right into his invincibility frames. Neat, huh?

Sonic's recovery is definitely more variable. I cannot argue that. However there are only so many variations to it, depending on the situation. Unpredictability is good, and it makes you harder to gimp, but it doesn't actually mean your opponent cannot gimp you, it just makes you harder to read. Your opponent will still guess right sometimes. However linear G&W's recovery is, it works. It is pretty much unpunishable and it is very hard to get into a position to gimp it.

Also as much as you might not agree, I believe aerial moveset DOES play a role in recovery. The fact that G&W has insane aerials helps his recovery. Recovery moves are not the only moves that have influence over how well your character can recover. Gimpers beware, because he has huge disjointed hitboxes that stay out, and guard him from possible attacks. You said that dair has nothing to do with recovery, but it does. So do all the aerials, because if you are trying to avoid being gimped (which is part of how good recovery is), you might need to throw a move out to keep your opponent out of your face.

Now I'm not a G&W main or a Sonic main. I don't dislike either of these characters either. I'm being unbiased here. Don't take this as Sonic hate or underrating. Yeah, he is a character that often gets the shaft, because people don't know him so well and that ends up getting you guys to be defensive about the options he does have. I've noticed. I'm stating my opinion in my full knowledge of both characters, which is rather equal, since I don't main either of them but I have played against them both many times, and I'm aware of their recovery capabilities. Sonic's recovery is GOOD. I just think G&W's is better.

My two cents: Sonic's recovery is longer, G&W's is more reliable. In terms of defense, neither one of them has a great defense against edgeguarders; G&W can handle edgeguarders a little better because of his aerial priority and projectile, but Sonic has more recovery options in general cause of the sheer length of his recovery. G&W's recovery is safer, Sonic's is longer.

 

[Greenstreet]

OK to get the little picture of the character that you want do this...
Step1: Go to your user profile.
Step2: Click on "About Me" you should see a list of things saying; clan, MSN adress and so on.
Step3: look around the middle of the list and you should see "Smash Character" click on the little gold bar next to it and you will be able to choose whoever you want

Also about this tier list I think it's hard for it to be perfect because some characters recoveries are a lot better then others in some ways but in another way may not be as good (like DK)

OFFTOPIC: Correction Afropony, I think the bloke wanted them in his sig. They are just smilies mate.

 

[jaap]

(Original post at page 10, copy at page 15, 18, 21)

My tier list is still open for discussion.
Ill post it again so it wont get ignored And also because no1 reacted on page 18

Here it is:

Rank S
Meta knight
R.O.B
Jigglypuff

Rank A
Kirby
Wario
Lucas
Mr. Game and Watch
Sonic
Pikachu
King Dedede
Pit

Rank B
Samus
Luigi
Fox
Toon Link
Diddy Kong
Charizard

Rank C
Yoshi
Snake
Zero Suit Samus
Peach
Lucario
Ice Climbers
Zelda
Wolf
Sheik
Marth
Falco

Rank D
Captain Falcon
Mario
Ness
Donkey Kong
Bowser
Ike

Rank E
Squirtle
Olimar
Ivysaur
Link
Ganondorf

Like it or not ? Always open for change. Also give reasons about his/her recovery

Dont post crap, give atleast reasons.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Larger distance is not equal to better recovery.

So I guess G&W is going to pop over Pikachu's thunder right?

G&W is practically ungimpable, even by the king of gimping, MK. Also his parachute allows him to cover an insane horizontal distance if you use it far away from the stage. His dair is good for making it back onto the stage from above if you choose to do this because it has very good priority (it beats Snake's mortars) and IASA frames upon landing.

Sending yourself in a FF via Dair jsut ebcause of its priority is a bad reason since the opponent can predict and punish accordingly.


Sonic has invincibility frames on his ^B.
his side B to jump cancel covers more horizontal distance. He also falls faster and moves thorugh the air more quickly than G&W as well.

Sonic can recover a great distance, but he can get hit out of it more easily. His up b is hard to gimp, but his b is fairly easy to, because you can tell exactly where it is going to go. His side b is okay. While he may be able to cover a greater distance than G&W (disputable), he is definitely more susceptible to gimping.

in what way?

Big deal if you see him use his neutral B he is capable of controlling when it releases to a certain point. let alone the speed as well as the trajectory of it.
Nor is he going to use it if you can easily whack him out of it.
His sideB to double jump coversthe entire stage of FD.

he covers much more distance than G&W.

He still has a good recovery, but I would not say it is comparable to G&W's.

In what way is it not comparable? You ahven't listed anything to compare tot he amount of distance covered as well as how quickly it is covered. In which case, Sonic beats him in both.

The reason G&W's dair is important to his recovery is if he recovers high by using his Up B early and parachuting over the stage. Sonic does NOT have a recovery option like this, because his Up B does not float, so he's not going to be recovering high, generally. Also his dair is not as good for making it back onto the stage because it is more punishable.

Um no?

Sonic's Dair cancels so he won't be vulnerable at all upon landing.
Again lack of knowledge because you did not know of the lagless Dair.
Sonic does not need to float because his aerial speed is higher than G&W so he covers roughly the same distance on ^B alone.

Side b / down b adds a little jump to his recovery. It's nothing big. OK, fine, that helps a little. A few high priority frames to help save you from projectiles. G&W has the bucket to deal with that. If someone comes offstage to gimp you, like ROB or MK, this priority boost isn't going to help, because they have disjointed hitboxes to gimp you with.

The bucket has lag. have you not seen that video where he bucketed then got punished for it?

Anyways the sideB jump +double jump gives him more distance than his spinshot.
His spinshot covers roughly 2/3rds of FD.

Also the sideB is purely for distance.

As for aerial priority it depends on who hits whose hitbox first. So if Sonic and MK attack at the same time for example MK's Fair vs Sonic's Bair, they'll clash.

Sonic's up B covers more vertical distance than G&W's. However it does not: push opponents away to avoid gimps, float afterwards (adds immense horizontal recovery), or sweetspot the edge.

Considering the massive amount of height it gains sweetspotting is not needed at all. (though it does sweetspot just after he bounces off the spring very small frames though)

How is G&W going to push an opponent away when they are far from him?
An opponent won't even bother trying to gimp G&W or Sonic on their way up since they move too quickly, cover too much height.

I already explained the horizontal distance.

Sweetspotting the edge is a really really good tool for G&W. It allows him to recover low with almost 0 chance of being gimped. As long as he is high enough to go above the edge when someone tries to grab it from him, he will be fine. The fact that it pushes opponents up does NOT leave him vulnerable at the peak, because he sweetspot the edge right into his invincibility frames. Neat, huh?

Yes its very neat and in the sweetspotting aspect G&W does better. However Sonic never needs to go for the ledge at all so he isn't limited to it.
Sonic is much more flexible in terms of recovery than G&W

Sonic's recovery is definitely more variable. I cannot argue that. However there are only so many variations to it, depending on the situation. Unpredictability is good, and it makes you harder to gimp, but it doesn't actually mean your opponent cannot gimp you, it just makes you harder to read. Your opponent will still guess right sometimes. However linear G&W's recovery is, it works. It is pretty much unpunishable and it is very hard to get into a position to gimp it.

I am rather confused.
G&W=more predictable
Sonic=less predictable.
You said because its unpredictable he is harder to gimp.
Does this not mean that G&W's recovery is more prone to gimps?

Also as much as you might not agree, I believe aerial moveset DOES play a role in recovery. The fact that G&W has insane aerials helps his recovery. Recovery moves are not the only moves that have influence over how well your character can recover. Gimpers beware, because he has huge disjointed hitboxes that stay out, and guard him from possible attacks. You said that dair has nothing to do with recovery, but it does. So do all the aerials, because if you are trying to avoid being gimped (which is part of how good recovery is), you might need to throw a move out to keep your opponent out of your face.

Agreed.

Now I'm not a G&W main or a Sonic main. I don't dislike either of these characters either. I'm being unbiased here. Don't take this as Sonic hate or underrating. Yeah, he is a character that often gets the shaft, because people don't know him so well and that ends up getting you guys to be defensive about the options he does have. I've noticed. I'm stating my opinion in my full knowledge of both characters, which is rather equal, since I don't main either of them but I have played against them both many times, and I'm aware of their recovery capabilities. Sonic's recovery is GOOD. I just think G&W's is better.

Not really. on all accounts Sonic's recovery (other than aerials) outdoes those of G&W.
He is less prone to being landcamped and while his aerials lack the priority of G&W, he isn't committed to them in the same manner (except the Nair and Dair).

Sonic's ability to cover more distance moer quickly means he is harder to gimp because the opponent has a much smaller window of time to go for a gimp and even if they manage to land a hit, does not mean Sonic will be gimped at all because he can homing attack to remove the momentum of the hit.

 

[MysticKenji]

list

Move Wario down a bit and put a spot for solo Ice Climber.

 

[Kitamerby]

(Original post at page 10, copy at page 15, 18, 21)

My tier list is still open for discussion.
Ill post it again so it wont get ignored And also because no1 reacted on page 18

Here it is:

Rank S
Meta knight
R.O.B
Jigglypuff

Rank A
Kirby
Wario
Lucas
Mr. Game and Watch
Sonic
Pikachu
King Dedede
Pit

Rank B
Samus
Luigi
Fox
Toon Link
Diddy Kong
Charizard

Rank C
Yoshi
Snake
Zero Suit Samus
Peach
Lucario
Ice Climbers
Zelda
Wolf
Sheik
Marth
Falco

Rank D
Captain Falcon
Mario
Ness
Donkey Kong
Bowser
Ike

Rank E
Squirtle
Olimar
Ivysaur
Link
Ganondorf

Like it or not ? Always open for change. Also give reasons about his/her recovery

Dont post crap, give atleast reasons.

I give up.

 

[Judge Judy]

I give up.

I know, that list is ****** up...

 

[bludhoundz]

So I guess G&W is going to pop over Pikachu's thunder right?

I do not understand the point of this question. How does it have to do with the distance either character can recover from?!

Sending yourself in a FF via Dair jsut ebcause of its priority is a bad reason since the opponent can predict and punish accordingly.

G&W's dair has IASA frames. It is fairly hard to punish, especially on platform stages where it hits through the platforms.

Sonic has invincibility frames on his ^B.
his side B to jump cancel covers more horizontal distance. He also falls faster and moves thorugh the air more quickly than G&W as well.

Yep.

Big deal if you see him use his neutral B he is capable of controlling when it releases to a certain point. let alone the speed as well as the trajectory of it.
Nor is he going to use it if you can easily whack him out of it.
His sideB to double jump coversthe entire stage of FD.

he covers much more distance than G&W.

The trajectory is important, yes. However you know that it goes toward you, so the ending place is fairly predictable. Does his side b -> second jump cover the entire stage of FD when activated aerially? Honestly I did not know this.

In what way is it not comparable? You ahven't listed anything to compare tot he amount of distance covered as well as how quickly it is covered. In which case, Sonic beats him in both.

Their recoveries seem to have similar speeds to me. Sonic's does have a greater distance.

Um no?

Sonic's Dair cancels so he won't be vulnerable at all upon landing.
Again lack of knowledge because you did not know of the lagless Dair.
Sonic does not need to float because his aerial speed is higher than G&W so he covers roughly the same distance on ^B alone.

When did I say lag? I meant priority. Also you're right, I didn't know it was lagless, but I assumed it had low lag.

Your up b argument is wrong. G&W's parachute allows him to fall VERY slowly, so he covers a great horizontal distance while barely moving down vertically. You simply cannot say that Sonic's Up B covers the same horizontal distance because he has better aerial movement - the problem with this is that he falls MUCH faster than G&W when G&W has the parachute out, so he loses a lot of vertical distance.

The bucket has lag. have you not seen that video where he bucketed then got punished for it?

Yep, but if you see a projectile coming, it's just a good a defense as Sonic's side b.

Anyways the sideB jump +double jump gives him more distance than his spinshot.
His spinshot covers roughly 2/3rds of FD.

Also the sideB is purely for distance.

I have not seen Sonic's spinshot or side b cover this much distance. I believe you, however. This does change things.

As for aerial priority it depends on who hits whose hitbox first. So if Sonic and MK attack at the same time for example MK's Fair vs Sonic's Bair, they'll clash.

Haha, no. While you are correct, Sonic's hitboxes aren't disjointed, whereas G&W's, and MK's (since you used him in your example) are. Thus if Sonic's aerial hits where their attack hits, only Sonic gets dealt knockback because they are safely out of range.

Considering the massive amount of height it gains sweetspotting is not needed at all. (though it does sweetspot just after he bounces off the spring very small frames though)

It isn't? I was under the impression that you could be grabbed out of your up b and then fall to your death, because you can't sweetspot the edge. I know it isn't nearly as bad as Snake's for this (since it's a lot harder to grab Sonic out of it), but it definitely leaves you more vulnerable.

How is G&W going to push an opponent away when they are far from him?
An opponent won't even bother trying to gimp G&W or Sonic on their way up since they move too quickly, cover too much height.

I mean if they are near him. But if they aren't, then he's safe because he sweetspots the ledge, whereas Sonic goes over it and can be hit...

I already explained the horizontal distance.

Yup.

Yes its very neat and in the sweetspotting aspect G&W does better. However Sonic never needs to go for the ledge at all so he isn't limited to it.
Sonic is much more flexible in terms of recovery than G&W

He is more flexible, but he is less safe.

I am rather confused.
G&W=more predictable
Sonic=less predictable.
You said because its unpredictable he is harder to gimp.
Does this not mean that G&W's recovery is more prone to gimps?

Yes and no. Yes because you can tell how G&W is going to recover. No because you still won't do anything about it, and he'll recover. With Sonic, even if you don't know how he is going to recover, you can at least try to hit him out of it, and have a greater success rate of hitting him out than G&W.

Not really. on all accounts Sonic's recovery (other than aerials) outdoes those of G&W.
He is less prone to being landcamped and while his aerials lack the priority of G&W, he isn't committed to them in the same manner (except the Nair and Dair).

Sonic can go a further distance. He is less safe while recovering, though.

Sonic's ability to cover more distance moer quickly means he is harder to gimp because the opponent has a much smaller window of time to go for a gimp and even if they manage to land a hit, does not mean Sonic will be gimped at all because he can homing attack to remove the momentum of the hit.

Yes and no. He is harder to gimp because he can get back faster, but ultimately he still HAS TO GO TO THE STAGE. As long as your opponent waits there, they can try to punish you, because you won't be sweetspotting the edge, so once you get close to the stage, you're in danger of being hit back offstage, and by certain characters, gimped.

Judge Judy summed up my point pretty well. Sonic recovers further, but G&W recovers safer.

Honestly I would rather have the safer recovery, because as long as I DI correctly, I won't have to recover the amount of distance that Sonic is capable of recovering.

If you want to determine which recovery is better in terms of speed and distance, yeah, Sonic's is definitely up there and obviously beats G&W. Hell it seems like he can recover nearly as far as MK. But you still have to get back to the stage, and this is where Sonic becomes vulnerable.

 

[Hive]

I give up.

lol I totally feel you :/
We should hold this thread hostage until it makes samus and lucario higher... deal?

 

[DanGR]

My tier list

Sorry if there is some bias. I really like Cheese though.

Rank S:
Pizza- It's delivery is pretty darn fast, and covers more area than most other foods. Best overall food. At least I got this one right.

Rank A:
Cheese- Is very flexible. It can be used on most sandwiches.
Cake- Isn't as safe as cheese. If your kid doesn't like chocolate cake, you're in deep trouble.

Rank B:
Roast Beef- When thrown, it covers more distance vertically than Oranges do.
Oranges- People that like oranges are usually bias. That's why I'm not placing them in Rank A.
Olives- The red thing in the middle (that I've got no idea what it does) puts this just above tomato sauce.
Tomato Sauce- Has many different uses and surfaces to cling onto for maximum taste potential!

Rank C:
Cookies- They're too predictable at parties and stuff. How lame.
Chicken w/bones- If you don't eat it correctly, you could die.
Noodles- Idk. I don't have a reason for this food. Do I really need one?

Rank D:
Liver- The different tricks for eating it without throwing up don't work.
Candy- If it hits your sweettooth, then you're asking for trouble.
Artichokes- I heard they were baaad. idk though, I've never eaten one.

Rank E:
Rice & Chopsticks- Too hard to use.
Hamburgers- Is longer than Ham, but not long enough.
Ham- Very short.
Beans- Mexican jumping beans get absolutely NO distance. Their second jump goes higher than their first though.
Lemonade- Wait...that's not a food. I'll include it anyways though.

Like it or not ? Always open for change. Also give reasons.

Dont post crap, give atleast reasons.

 

[Browny]

what an absoulte joke of a list

wheres steak tier? and why isnt sonic in it?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

stuff

 

[Dark Sonic]

Side B is much more then just icying to a point (or there is a lot of icying on this cake) it ups his horizontal range from high up a lot higher up...but...I'm going to point out why Spin Shot is overall worthless in Sonic's recovery right now...

stuff that every Sonic main already knows

First of all, there's more to recovery than just distance, there is also speed. Spinshot travels at a very low angle, and very very quickly, allowing Sonic to get back to the stage sooner than any recovery method. This is purely to make it back to the stage before the opponent even has the option of chasing you, or to beat an opponent back to the stage if they're trying to edgeguard you off stage already.

Side B+second jump covers all of FD. And that's before he does his up B, which covers 3/4s of it (up B+aerial, since the aerial lets him move more horizontally. Airdodging works too).

Down B has higher priority? I've always felt that Side B and that little hop it has suits me better...or just an air dodge...from my 2nd jump cancel...

Still...other then speed maybe...what is the point of spin jump (for recovery)?

You mean spinshot.

And nothing really. It's purely for recovery speed, which many characters are lacking in. If you need distance, it is better to save your second jump and cancel the side B latter.

And yes, Down B has huch higher priority, but in general side B is better to use.

I don't like the Homing attack as well and I also feel it is a poor secondary (the worse one actually as far as 2nds go)...can't see why people bring it up when they talk about Sonic's recovery and it's good points...Because the Homing attack isn't one of them...

Me and you both. I mean distance wise it's okay, but it's just too easy to punish to even be an option.

Anyway I'm hoping this can let you see why Sonic's Side B is so much better then his Down B...

You're lecturing a Sonic main on the properties of his spins? Side B covers more distance. Spinshot travels faster. Down B goes through projectile edgeguards. Dair->jump gets around edgeguarders (Dair->up B works too when you're closer to the stage), and overall Sonic's recovery is just so versitile simply because of how easily he can change his position in the air, as well as the sheer amount of distance that can be covered in a very short amount of time.

I do not understand the point of this question. How does it have to do with the distance either character can recover from?!

Distance is not the only thing that matters, Versitality matters too.

G&W's dair has IASA frames. It is fairly hard to punish, especially on platform stages where it hits through the platforms.

Yes it has IASA frames, but it's still easier to punish than Sonic's.

Does his side b -> second jump cover the entire stage of FD when activated aerially? Honestly I did not know this.

Yes.

Their recoveries seem to have similar speeds to me. Sonic's does have a greater distance.

Sonic moves faster in the air. His side B moves even faster, and spinshot travels at rediculous speeds.

When did I say lag? I meant priority. Also you're right, I didn't know it was lagless, but I assumed it had low lag.

Yeah, it doesn't have that much priority, but that's what the spring left from the up B is for.

Your up b argument is wrong. G&W's parachute allows him to fall VERY slowly, so he covers a great horizontal distance while barely moving down vertically. You simply cannot say that Sonic's Up B covers the same horizontal distance because he has better aerial movement - the problem with this is that he falls MUCH faster than G&W when G&W has the parachute out, so he loses a lot of vertical distance.

Well, it covers 3/4ths of FD. G&Ws definately goes farther, but you're forgetting that Sonic will be using his other recovery options in addition to his up B.

Yep, but if you see a projectile coming, it's just a good a defense as Sonic's side b.

Sonic would use down B against projectile edgeguarders (because it simply goes through them). But yeah in general the bucket is good for projectile edgeguards.

I have not seen Sonic's spinshot or side b cover this much distance. I believe you, however. This does change things.

Side B+jump covers all of FD. Spinshot covers a little less (about 3/4th)

Haha, no. While you are correct, Sonic's hitboxes aren't disjointed, whereas G&W's, and MK's (since you used him in your example) are. Thus if Sonic's aerial hits where their attack hits, only Sonic gets dealt knockback because they are safely out of range.

Sonic's bair is disjointed (it hits far behind his foot). So they would both reach each other's hurtboxes and both get hit. (although Sonic would just get beat out speed wise, but Sonic could also just use his side B instead and tear through their attack with the invincible hop).

It isn't? I was under the impression that you could be grabbed out of your up b and then fall to your death, because you can't sweetspot the edge. I know it isn't nearly as bad as Snake's for this (since it's a lot harder to grab Sonic out of it), but it definitely leaves you more vulnerable.

Sonic has invincibility on his up B to prevent him from getting grabbed. And a little while after the invincibility wears off he can just airdodge out of his up B...and not get grabbed (so if the Sonic sucks then yes he might get grabbed out of his up B). Sonic also has an insanely high priority, high horizontal range uair that he can use out of his up B to just hit the guy that's trying to grab him.

I mean if they are near him. But if they aren't, then he's safe because he sweetspots the ledge, whereas Sonic goes over it and can be hit...

Except Sonic can airdodge out of his up B and thus not get hit. And he may not even need to use his up B because side B+jump+aerial control gets him to the stage anyway. Up B is optional.

Yes and no. Yes because you can tell how G&W is going to recover. No because you still won't do anything about it, and he'll recover. With Sonic, even if you don't know how he is going to recover, you can at least try to hit him out of it, and have a greater success rate of hitting him out than G&W.

Iroincally Sonic can edgeguard G&W pretty well.

 

[bludhoundz]

Distance is not the only thing that matters, Versitality matters too.

I agree. Hell I said this in my arguments, and I agree that versatility is what Sonic's recovery has going for it, along with distance.

Yes it has IASA frames, but it's still easier to punish than Sonic's.

I disagree.

Sonic moves faster in the air. His side B moves even faster, and spinshot travels at rediculous speeds.

Speed is good, but it isn't equal to protection. If an MK gets in your face, the speed you're going at isn't going to matter, unless you're going too fast to be hit, which even in Sonic's case, rarely happens.

Yeah, it doesn't have that much priority, but that's what the spring left from the up B is for.

I don't see how the spring covers your dair.... but either way you probably won't be recovering high with dair.

Well, it covers 3/4ths of FD. G&Ws definately goes farther, but you're forgetting that Sonic will be using his other recovery options in addition to his up B.

Yeah. The thing is, while G&W is floating on his parachute, he's fairly safe. Yeah, he can be attacked but fortunately all his moves have RIDICULOUS range and disjointedness, which can be used as protection.

Sonic may have options for protection, but I really don't think you can say they are the same as G&W's. Hell, he is one of the characters that can go toe to toe with MK in the air.

Sonic would use down B against projectile edgeguarders (because it simply goes through them). But yeah in general the bucket is good for projectile edgeguards.

Yep, I was simply stating that G&W also has an answer.

Sonic's bair is disjointed (it hits far behind his foot). So they would both reach each other's hurtboxes and both get hit. (although Sonic would just get beat out speed wise, but Sonic could also just use his side B instead and tear through their attack with the invincible hop).

It may be disjointed, but it doesn't have the range of G&W's bair or fair. Side B is a nice option but you have to be really nice with the invincibility frames, and a multi-hitbox attack or someone who waits for the invincibility frames and tries to hit you afterward can be a problem.

Sonic has invincibility on his up B to prevent him from getting grabbed. And a little while after the invincibility wears off he can just airdodge out of his up B...and not get grabbed (so if the Sonic sucks then yes he might get grabbed out of his up B). Sonic also has an insanely high priority, high horizontal range uair that he can use out of his up B to just hit the guy that's trying to grab him.

I'm fairly sure he isn't invincible the entire time. He can be grabbed at some point. But yeah that won't really happen. However once an airdodge is baited, you can just be punished afterwards. Also his uair is nice, but there are definitely characters that can beat it out.

Except Sonic can airdodge out of his up B and thus not get hit. And he may not even need to use his up B because side B+jump+aerial control gets him to the stage anyway. Up B is optional.

Airdodging is not equal to not getting hit. Airdodging makes you invulnerable for a specified amount of time, but after that time is up you can get hit. It isn't a failsafe way to get back, because you will get hit sometimes anyway.

Up b will be needed if Sonic has to recover low due to being knocked really far. Even if you can use the other methods, is this not his primary recovery method, as it is the safest? It's only vulnerable at the peak, whereas the rest of his moves are vulnerable throughout except at the beginning (which is when you're furthest from the stage, so you need the invincibility from the side b less)

Iroincally Sonic can edgeguard G&W pretty well.

I'd like to see it.

If G&W recovers low, there is pretty much 0 chance of him being gimped. Uair is an awesome tool for protection, and his up b has a similar effect.

Sonic, while he may avoid gimps often, will not recover safely nearly as much as G&W. At least this is my experience...

I am not going to argue it further. I've made my point. To summarize:

Sonic can cover a greater distance and has more options, which can make him harder to gimp, but he isn't actually as SAFE while recovering, you have to rely on mindgames. G&W doesn't, it's really straightforwardly easy to recover with him. Recovering from above isn't super safe, but it can be done as a mixup. Recovering from below is pretty much impossible to gimp.

 

[PKNintendo]

UPDATED! yah!

 

[ph00tbag]

Sorry if there is some bias. I really like Cheese though.

Rank S:
Pizza- It's delivery is pretty darn fast, and covers more area than most other foods. Best overall food. At least I got this one right.

Rank A:
Cheese- Is very flexible. It can be used on most sandwiches.
Cake- Isn't as safe as cheese. If your kid doesn't like chocolate cake, you're in deep trouble.

Rank B:
Roast Beef- When thrown, it covers more distance vertically than Oranges do.
Oranges- People that like oranges are usually bias. That's why I'm not placing them in Rank A.
Olives- The red thing in the middle (that I've got no idea what it does) puts this just above tomato sauce.
Tomato Sauce- Has many different uses and surfaces to cling onto for maximum taste potential!

Rank C:
Cookies- They're too predictable at parties and stuff. How lame.
Chicken w/bones- If you don't eat it correctly, you could die.
Noodles- Idk. I don't have a reason for this food. Do I really need one?

Rank D:
Liver- The different tricks for eating it without throwing up don't work.
Candy- If it hits your sweettooth, then you're asking for trouble.
Artichokes- I heard they were baaad. idk though, I've never eaten one.

Rank E:
Rice & Chopsticks- Too hard to use.
Hamburgers- Is longer than Ham, but not long enough.
Ham- Very short.
Beans- Mexican jumping beans get absolutely NO distance. Their second jump goes higher than their first though.
Lemonade- Wait...that's not a food. I'll include it anyways though.

Like it or not ? Always open for change. Also give reasons.

Dont post crap, give atleast reasons.

What the hell, man, cookies are amazing.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Speed is good, but it isn't equal to protection. If an MK gets in your face, the speed you're going at isn't going to matter, unless you're going too fast to be hit, which even in Sonic's case, rarely happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsPU6nCm5iI
His spinshot really does make him too fast to hit most of the time.

I don't see how the spring covers your dair.... but either way you probably won't be recovering high with dair.

My bad I was thinking of how I use up B to escape combos.

Yeah. The thing is, while G&W is floating on his parachute, he's fairly safe. Yeah, he can be attacked but fortunately all his moves have RIDICULOUS range and disjointedness, which can be used as protection.

In the same way airdodges can be baited, attacks can be baited, so if you're going to discredit Sonic's ability to airdodge after his up B, then I'm going to discredit your ability to use attacks with a lot of lag like Fair (which would be your main defense against edgeguarders would it not?)

Sonic may have options for protection, but I really don't think you can say they are the same as G&W's. Hell, he is one of the characters that can go toe to toe with MK in the air.

Sonic's options don't involve beating others attacks. They involve avoiding them altogether, by just going around them.

It may be disjointed, but it doesn't have the range of G&W's bair or fair.

I was just pointing it out. It's not like Sonic is going to be trying to beat metakight in the air (and actually game and watch shouldn't either while he's recovering. Baiting an attack is just as easy as baiting an airdodge.

Side B is a nice option but you have to be really nice with the invincibility frames

So you mean I have to be good? I can do that.

and a multi-hitbox attack or someone who waits for the invincibility frames and tries to hit you afterward can be a problem.

I hold the side B. We both fall lower. I spinshot straight past them because they decided to not attack. I litterally travel too fast for them to catch. If they didn't predict me releasing the spinshot, I get back for free.

I'm fairly sure he isn't invincible the entire time.

He's invincible for about 1/3 of it (the middle third).

He can be grabbed at some point.

So I have to time my up B? Big deal.

However once an airdodge is baited, you can just be punished afterwards.

Can I not say the same thing about Game and Watch's dair?

Also his uair is nice, but there are definitely characters that can beat it out.

No, they really don't. You basically have to have a sword to beat that move (not even G&Ws key can beat it if spaced correctly)

Airdodging is not equal to not getting hit. Airdodging makes you invulnerable for a specified amount of time, but after that time is up you can get hit. It isn't a failsafe way to get back, because you will get hit sometimes anyway.

Neither is trying to sweetspot the ledge, since I can just edge hog, get back up, and bair your dair. It's the same thing.

Up b will be needed if Sonic has to recover low due to being knocked really far.

Good DI will prevent this from happening 99% of the time. It's actually very rare that Sonic needs to do his up B. He just does it anyway to get around edgeguarders.

Even if you can use the other methods, is this not his primary recovery method, as it is the safest?

Actually no it's not his primary recovery method. His primary recovery method is side B->jump->avoid opponent with airdodge/up B. Up B really is just a mixup tool most of the time

I'd like to see it.

Uair beats G&Ws dair horizontally (as well as vertically, but that spacing is hellacious). It also beat's G&Ws fair and bair vertically. Spring->Uair is pretty effective when you already launch yourself that high. Now note this is not "zomg Sonic gimps G&W," it's just a somewhat effective edgeguard.

Bair also has more vertical range than your Fair.

If G&W recovers low, there is pretty much 0 chance of him being gimped. Uair is an awesome tool for protection, and his up b has a similar effect.

Edgehog, get up, punish dair. Repeat as much as possible (assuming your punishment knocked him back off the stage).

Sonic, while he may avoid gimps often, will not recover safely nearly as much as G&W. At least this is my experience...

And My experience as a Sonic main says otherwise, which is why personal experience means nothing, only the tools available to said characters.

Sonic can cover a greater distance and has more options, which can make him harder to gimp, but he isn't actually as SAFE while recovering, you have to rely on mindgames. G&W doesn't, it's really straightforwardly easy to recover with him. Recovering from above isn't super safe, but it can be done as a mixup. Recovering from below is pretty much impossible to gimp.

How is recoverying from low impossible to gimp? Edgehog->get up->powershield dair->back throw. Yeah it's hard, but It's more routine than trying to edgeguard Sonic.

 

[Kitamerby]

Lucas' recovery is pretty amazing if you include Zap Jump, and the fact that PKT and PKT2 can't be interrupted. These plus Magnet Pull, amazing air control and a tether recovery make him very versatile when recovering.

Also, ROB has the second best recovery in the game, hands down. The only reason it's not the best is because of that *******, Metaknight, with his two glides, four recovery moves, five second jumps and excellent aerials.

I could go into more details with these characters' placings, but this isn't my thread.

Samus can gimp ROB. :D

 

[mariofanpm12]

Ganon's beats Link's.

Face it.

You, in my opinion, seem somewhat biased.

 

[DanGR]

This thread needs to be in the general discussion or something. I'm getting kinda sick at all the pointless threads that are being made because someone feels like ranking a random something in this game. Ranking recoveries has no tactical relevance whatsoever. This is the tactical forum. Hopefully, people know what the better, decent, and bad recoveries in this game are. That's as far as you need to go. If you think Sonic's recovery is bad, you're an idiot. If you think Ness' recovery is among the worst, you're an idiot. If you think Olimar is the most easily gimped character in this game, you're also among the unintelligent. This thread is no different than a thread that ranks foods, or who has the best downb, or who can double jump the fastest, or who can do the coolest looking downthrow, blah, blah, blah. What's the point? As far as I'm concerned, this and many other threads in the tactical forum are just clogging up the forum. It's just gross. I want the melee forums. Where did they go?

Rank B:
Roast Beef- When thrown, it covers more distance vertically than Oranges do.

Vertical distance isn't everything. Quit making that dumb assumption. Look at Ike. His recovery is balls. You have to account for everything about the character, not just vertical distance and/or horizontal distance.

Olives- The red thing in the middle (that I've got no idea what it does) puts this just above tomato sauce.

-representative of the average poster in this thread.

Chicken w/bones- If you don't eat it correctly, you could die.

If you don't use pikachu's upb correctly, you'll die. What's that have to do with how good the recovery is? Assume you can use it well people.

Noodles- Idk. I don't have a reason for this food. Do I really need one?

-more reasoning in this thread.

Rank D:
Liver- The different tricks for eating it without throwing up don't work.

Sonic's little tricks @ getting back to the stage don't work? If you've got as many options as Sonic has at getting back to the stage, and you still think it's not one of the best recoveries, then no-one should care about what you have to say.

Artichokes- I heard they were baaad. idk though, I've never eaten one.

So you heard Rob's recovery is good and you also know nothing about Jiggs- only her tier position, so you put rob above jiggs. Does that make sense? Jigg's recovery is better than Rob's in EVERY WAY. That's the truth.

Rank E:
Rice & Chopsticks- Too hard to use.

omg, Ness/Yoshi's recovery sucks cuz it's so hard to airdodge. >_> say what? For ness and yoshi, it seems people are looking at their upb and can only see the distance. Well, the fact of the matter is that they won't use their upb most of the time. Good DI + their second jump+ an airdodge = getting back a large majority of the time w/out even ever having to use upb. Just watch any good Ness/Yoshi match? Think of that?

Good riddance.