My Recovery tier list.

[Chis]

PKnintendo, I hope we didn't scare you off...

 

[Yuna]

True, she always has it, but her teleport is fairly easy to spike (or merely just attack). and I'm sure most zelda mains will agree how very predictable her recovery is. You have a choice of getting in close and doing it to try to avoid getting hit in free fall but risk getting his during teleport or from far away to avoid getting hit during teleport but risk getting hit during free fall.

Yoshi's recovery is easy to Meteor Smash as well. After all, it has to end. He has to either go for the ledge (at which point he's vulnerable to a Meteor Smash or attack that just reaches below the ledge) or go above it.

His super armor frames eventually end and then you can attack him. Meteor Smash or attack, As long as he's thrown off the stage, he's pretty much dead. Zelda can still meteor cancel. What's Yoshi gonna do when he gets meteored? He's gonna die (unless his 2nd jump is still there). Or just grab him after he's used it and throw him off the stage.

Zelda has three options when recovering: Sweetspot or go for the stage with the option of canceling the lag. It's predictable but it's not an auto-hit for the opponent. For one thing, it's pretty hard to edgehog her and get up and attack her if she goes for the stage. Yoshi has, um, his 2nd jump... which is much more predictable.

Yeah yoshi's got just his second jump for vertical recovery, he doesn't even need it for horizontal though, it's not exactly easy to hit a yoshi out of a DJ unless he's at higher percents either. He might still have a better horizontal recovery than zelda if they both don't have their second jump

Zelda doesn't need her Up B to recover either. She doesn't even need her 2nd jump a lot of the time.

Nah, just heavy armor that starts to deteriorate at higher percents or some wierd thing like that

I can't remember if it's super armor or just juggernaut armor (leaning towards the latter), which is even worse.

 

[Kanzaki]

Can a non-Lucas/Ness main, that can somewhat play competitively, argue Lucas' placement on recovery..? He has Zap Jump and Magnet pull, but they're both pretty predictable. Rope snake isn't all too exciting as well... look at the other tethers..?

 

[ph00tbag]

Can a non-Lucas/Ness main, that can somewhat play competitively, argue Lucas' placement on recovery..? He has Zap Jump and Magnet pull, but they're both pretty predictable. Rope snake isn't all too exciting as well... look at the other tethers..?

If you're just going to disregard the primary reasons Lucas' recovery is amazing, for no good reason, there's really no point in making the argument to you, because you won't change your mind.

Of course, you're wrong if you think his recovery is anything but amazing, so it's not like it changes anything.

 

[Kanzaki]

If you're just going to disregard the primary reasons Lucas' recovery is amazing, for no good reason, there's really no point in making the argument to you, because you won't change your mind.

Of course, you're wrong if you think his recovery is anything but amazing, so it's not like it changes anything.

I'm disregarding the biased people going "Oh, [insert person's main]'s recovery is good cause of this!", that is why, I asked for a NON Lucas main..? And for the people that can play in a competitive level, because the Zap Jump and Magnet Pull looks nice, but to be able to pull it off in a match..? Not so much.

 

[ph00tbag]

I'm disregarding the biased people going "Oh, [insert person's main]'s recovery is good cause of this!", that is why, I asked for a NON Lucas main..? And for the people that can play in a competitive level, because the Zap Jump and Magnet Pull looks nice, but to be able to pull it off in a match..? Not so much.

Since when am I a Lucas main?

Honestly, Lucas is really tough to gimp if he's Zap Jumping, and even if he's not it can be tough. His recovery is the seventh longest and the eighth highest. Add to that the potential he has for punishing poor edgeguarding. I'm saying this having actually tested all of this and measured these things.

Frankly, there's very little bias in here for Lucas. All I see are a bunch of people who haven't even looked at his recovery.

 

[Levitas]

I'm not a lucas main either. I play snake and marth. Doesn't change the fact that lucas is really ridiculous at recovering.

 

[Gindler]

Yoshi's recovery is easy to Meteor Smash as well. After all, it has to end. He has to either go for the ledge (at which point he's vulnerable to a Meteor Smash or attack that just reaches below the ledge) or go above it.

His super armor frames eventually end and then you can attack him. Meteor Smash or attack, As long as he's thrown off the stage, he's pretty much dead. Zelda can still meteor cancel. What's Yoshi gonna do when he gets meteored? He's gonna die (unless his 2nd jump is still there). Or just grab him after he's used it and throw him off the stage.

Zelda has three options when recovering: Sweetspot or go for the stage with the option of canceling the lag. It's predictable but it's not an auto-hit for the opponent. For one thing, it's pretty hard to edgehog her and get up and attack her if she goes for the stage. Yoshi has, um, his 2nd jump... which is much more predictable.


Zelda doesn't need her Up B to recover either. She doesn't even need her 2nd jump a lot of the time.


I can't remember if it's super armor or just juggernaut armor (leaning towards the latter), which is even worse.

True it's not the hardest recovery to meteor. However what other recovery move throws projectiles while moving? don't feel like counting but the egg tossing can sometimes and usually stop edgeguarders.

I have meteor cancelled with yoshi too...well kinda with the egg toss.

Yoshi has more than just the 2nd jump, egg toss>egg toss>2nd jump>rising Nair works well. You can honestly 2nd jump whenever you want with 5 boosting egg tosses to mix it up so it's not all that bad.

Yeah juggernaut armor isn't nearly as good which I'll agree with you there.

I guess maybe both have mediocre recoveries.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

She's got the what now with the what now?

ROFL did I put that in? My bad woops...

10clutchingatstraws

Regarding Zelda, does using neutral B in the air prevent you from using your Up + B? (Like Din's fire)

And is there a list of the amount of damage (or better yet, a list of attacks) that knocks Yoshi out of his 2nd jump?

 

[Mmac]

Whats with all the stuff about Double Jump Armour? I don't even think about it when I recover (Hell sometimes I even forget he had that!)

You know what I do when I recover? I AIRDODGE! Egg Toss to close the gap, Double Jump, Airdodge when I get close. Boom! I just went past him unharmed! If the Yoshi knows what he is doing, it makes ANY type of aerial interception impossible! Not only that but the Airdodge also accelerates the Double Jump also!

Excluding today (Which was bull****! Stray fireball breaking the armour at 15%?!?) I can't remember the last time I was gimped that wasn't due to doing something stupid (Poor Judgement)

I'm really disappointed that you forgot about his DJAD Gindler. Thats the most important aspect of his recovery game and pretty much makes his recovery practically ingimpable

 

[Yuna]

True it's not the hardest recovery to meteor. However what other recovery move throws projectiles while moving? don't feel like counting but the egg tossing can sometimes and usually stop edgeguarders.

How people are stupid enough to rely on projectiling Yoshi's 2nd jump when they know it can SA them? Egg tossing can stop edgeguarders? Well, Zelda has Lightning Kick for that.

I have meteor cancelled with yoshi too...well kinda with the egg toss.

He gains almost no vertical range. Meteor Canceling with Yoshi using Up B just takes him out of stun, he'll still be helpless to make it back unless he still has his 2nd jump.

Yoshi has more than just the 2nd jump, egg toss>egg toss>2nd jump>rising Nair works well. You can honestly 2nd jump whenever you want with 5 boosting egg tosses to mix it up so it's not all that bad.

With the 2nd jump gone, no matter the amount of egg tossing, you're dead, unless you started off very far above the stage and can pretty much just air control in with a few egg tosses, at which point anyone (almost) could recover doing pretty much the same thing (air control + maybe a recovery boosting move).

Yoshi is not unique in this! But if he's a bit far away from the ledge horizontal-wise and his 2nd jump is gone, he's dead. Maybe characters aren't (Zelda certainly isn't) in situations like this.

Yeah juggernaut armor isn't nearly as good which I'll agree with you there.

Does Yoshi have Super Armor or Juggernaut armor (in which case, he sucks)?

Regarding Zelda, does using neutral B in the air prevent you from using your Up + B? (Like Din's fire)

Zelda has no move which randomly disables Up B only, Din's Fire puts her in helpless state, where she can't do anything except air control. None of her other moves do this.

Stuff.

Since when does Yoshi get to move before invincibility ends after airdodging? And if he's whacked afterwards, his 2nd jump is gone and he's a goner.

 

[Adapt]

Now that I can get the search function to work I present:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=180468

The topic is purely concerned with distance so it does not include the gimpability of certain recoveries (like pit's up-B)

It doesn't include aerial DI so these topics will be useful:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167952
combined with this:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162546
to get a proper view of a character's aerial abilities.

(example: yoshi's horizontal drifting is actually worse than Jiggs because Jiggs falls much slower)



It would be really great to somehow combine all this together into one cohesive recovery analysis

 

[jaap]

(original post at page 10, copy at page 15)

my tier list is still open for discussion.
ill post it again so it wont get ignored .

here it is:

Rank S
Meta knight
R.O.B
Jigglypuff

Rank A
Kirby
Pit
Lucas
Wario
Sonic
King Dedede
Luigi
Pikachu
Game and Watch

Rank B
Samus
Fox
Diddy Kong
Toon Link
Charizard

Rank C
Peach
Ice Climbers
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus
Wolf
Yoshi
Sheik
Falco
Ness
Lucario
Marth

Rank D
Captain Falcon
Mario
Donkey Kong
Bowser
Squirtle
Ike

Rank E
Olimar
Ivysaur
Ganondorf
Link

like it or not ? always open for change. also say why he/she has a gd recovery
i also changed it a bit, again

 

[_clinton]

Ok jaap...I'll give my thoughts on your list...

Here are my marks again

... means in that list
! mean s by one level
!! means by two levels
!!! means by three levels

I'll give a reason for !, !!, and !!!

(original post at page 10)

Rank S
Meta knight
R.O.B

Rank A
Pit
Kirby
Jigglypuff- ! to low Pound helps recovery, ever heard of something called rising pounds? Oh and JP's jumps are better then Kirby's length wise both ways as well...with rising pound she can almost tie with Kirby's length using all his jumps and then final cutter
Sonic- ...to high
King Dedede- ...to high
Game and Watch
Lucas- ...to low
Wario- ...to low

Rank B
Charizard
Pikachu-! to low ever heard of Skull Bash? Oh the simple fact that Quick attack is pretty much ungimpable when used right?
Fox
Luigi
Falco-! To high Wolf's recovery is better then Falco's ok...distance wise and move wise...the only issue wolf has sometimes is sweetspotting the ledge...which is based off of how you aim the move actually
Diddy Kong

Rank C
Ice Climbers
Toon Link
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus
Peach
Wolf
Samus-!! to low It should be rank A ok...a single bomb is like a 2nd jump in horizontal distance...she has one of the best ropes in the game as well
Yoshi
Lucario
Marth

Rank D
Captain Falcon
Sheik- ! To Low it should be higher then Zelda's...she has a rope for one thing...and vanish can almost match the distance of Zelda's horizontally...and then beat it vertically...
Mario
Ness- ! To low it should be rank C at the least ok...for one thing his 2nd jump is better horizontal distance wise then Link's full recovery - bombs...and can tie with Mario's pretty much (tested on a low plane) for others the distance of his 3rd can match the distance of his 2nd in horizontal and then beat it for vertical...he can stall his fall and move his location in the air using his magnet as well...I gave a small wall of text explaining Ness a few pages back as well
Squirtle
Donkey Kong
Ike

Rank E
Bowser
Ivysaur- ...to High Olimar beats the thing in horizontal length by far...around the same amount as Mario actually
Olimar
Ganondorf
Link-...to low Link at least has bombs...what does Ganondorf have?

 

[Fino]

For constantly hearing people ***** about olimar's recovery, I'm shocked not to see him last. Maybe the community is finally turning around?
(haha, doubt it)


~Fino

 

[_clinton]

Olimar being in Rank E is turning around?

 

[Mmac]

Since when does Yoshi get to move before invincibility ends after airdodging? And if he's whacked afterwards, his 2nd jump is gone and he's a goner.

Since..... always? Airdodging doesn't restrict movement, Unless I'm mistaken.

And hit afterwards? Almost nobody can hit him afterwards if they are already off the stage and completely blew their interception attempt. Even if he does get get, the majority of the attacks are stereotypically 45* Launch angles. It's not like Yoshi is someone like Link or Wolf, and drops like a rock, His aerial movement is more than enough, and he can stall in the air with his eggs. He can also DownB to an ledge for a usually safe access back to the stage

 

[ShadowLink84]

clinton how is sonic too high?

 

[TheFast]

(original post at page 10)

my tier list is still open for discussion.
ill post it again so it wont get ignored .

here it is:

Rank S
Meta knight
R.O.B

Rank A
Pit
Kirby
Jigglypuff- lower she has very little verticle recovery
Sonic
King Dedede
Game and Watch
Lucas
Wario- B because when you don't have your bike your toast

Rank B
Charizard-should be C he can get nocked down enough to die pretty easyly
Pikachu
Fox
Luigi- should be A because when u hit side b and jump at the same time (try it if you don't belive me)
Falco
Diddy Kong

Rank C
Ice Climbers
Toon Link- should be a B
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus
Peach- B she can float >.<
Wolf
Samus
Yoshi - Should be B at least people really don't understand his recovery is is very good
Lucario
Marth

Rank D
Captain Falcon
Sheik
Mario
Ness
Squirtle- E because of the start up lag
Donkey Kong
Ike

Rank E
Bowser
Ivysaur
Olimar
Ganondorf
Link

like it or not ? always open for change. also say why he/she has a gd recovery
i also changed it a bit

everything Clinton said is right besides

 

[TigerWoods]

Ok people... this thread has some issues with it....
WHAT IS IT ASKING???

Longest Horizontal Recovery Distance??
Longest Vertical Recovery Distance??
Easiest to manuver??
Most efficient Recovery??

Don't tell me your taking all of those into account... theres going to be fighting all day between each character...

I.E. Luigi can double jump, Sideb, Downb, and UpB at the same time... giving him extreme distance... BUT WAIT its easy to gimp(you can tell me a good luigi wouldnt get hit... blah blah)... Peach has amazing horizontal recovery... little vertical output... Pit can fly.... Easy to hit(oh you can deny this one saying "any good pit wouldn't get hit" but o well)...snake amazing vertical....low horizontal and easy to hit...blah blah blah


On another note Peach C rank?? Lolz jump+float+umbrella will take you places... anyway I'm not about to argue here so take what I said or leave it...

 

[Meadow]

Ok people... this thread has some issues with it....
WHAT IS IT ASKING???

Longest Horizontal Recovery Distance??
Longest Vertical Recovery Distance??
Easiest to manuver??
Most efficient Recovery??

Don't tell me your taking all of those into account... theres going to be fighting all day between each character...

On another note Peach C rank?? Lolz jump+float+umbrella will take you places... anyway I'm not about to argue here so take what I said or leave it...

Agreed. I might be a little biased, but Peach is definitely higher than C rank. Peach Bomber, Floating, Parasol...Peach could easily have the best horizontal recovery, aside from Jigglypuff and a couple others.

Her vertical recovery isn't so bad either, but it isn't exceptional in any way as well...at least Peach can still knock the opponent off the edge using her parasol if they edgehog.

 

[Fino]

Olimar being in Rank E is turning around?

I'm saying, he's not DEAD last, lke everyone makes him out to be (or at least that's what I get)


~Fino

 

[Kitamerby]

I love how everyone completely writes off Lucario's recovery as mediocre despite the fact that ExtremeSpeed has one of the longest ranges of the maneuverable Up B's ( believe only Fox and Pit have more range), as well as the fact that it can curve around obstacles (allowing recoveries from areas that other characters couldn't dream of recovering from, like directly under the center of FD or under the lip of Lylat). If stalling counts as helping recovery, Dair does the trick. If you're worried about edgeguarders, Fair and Dair have incredible priority, fighting off pretty much anyone not named MK, Marf, GnW, or possibly DDD. His incredible floatiness often makes it so that he doesn't have to use his very respectable double jump, which has great range in its own right. Also, Lucario's ledgesnap range is absolutely amazing. There's really no other way to describe his amazing magnetic paws. Double Team can also be used for recovery (I wouldn't recommend it, but if you can predict them right, go for it,) allowing you an instant ticket on the invincibility train back to the stage, with absolutely nothing they can do to stop you.

Oh, and I'm guessing nobody cares about the Wall Cling, which works on a majority of legal stages, and even on some ledges when they're being hogged, right? Who cares about being one of the only two characters (Pit is the only other person) able to recover back to the stage from DIRECTLY UNDER THE CENTER OF FINAL DESTINATION without even a double jump? His recovery is sooooo mediocre, right?

Just smack him once and edgehog, just like Olimar!

 

[Mr.Victory07]

(original post at page 10)

my tier list is still open for discussion.
ill post it again so it wont get ignored .

here it is:

Rank S
Meta knight
R.O.B

Rank A
Pit-Under Jiggs
Kirby-Under Jiggs also
Jigglypuff
Sonic
King Dedede
Game and Watch
Lucas
Wario

Rank B
Charizard- Not amazing, glide helps, but not THIS good
Pikachu
Fox
Luigi-Much higher, better than Wario's with down-B
Falco-A little lower IMO
Diddy Kong

Rank C
Ice Climbers
Toon Link-Switch spots with Falco
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus
Peach
Wolf-
Samus-Better than Wolf's
Yoshi
Lucario
Marth

Rank D
Captain Falcon
Sheik
Mario
Ness
Squirtle
Donkey Kong-WAAAY too low. The vertical height is as good at Mario and Sheik, and the horizantal height is REALLY good
Ike

Rank E
Bowser-Maybe a tad higher
Ivysaur
Olimar
Ganondorf
Link-Atleast better than Oli-Saur

My thoughts in bold....

 

[Samuelson]

I love how everyone completely writes off Lucario's recovery as mediocre despite the fact that ExtremeSpeed has one of the longest ranges of the maneuverable Up B's ( believe only Fox and Pit have more range), as well as the fact that it can curve around obstacles (allowing recoveries from areas that other characters couldn't dream of recovering from, like directly under the center of FD or under the lip of Lylat). If stalling counts as helping recovery, Dair does the trick. If you're worried about edgeguarders, Fair and Dair have incredible priority, fighting off pretty much anyone not named MK, Marf, GnW, or possibly DDD. His incredible floatiness often makes it so that he doesn't have to use his very respectable double jump, which has great range in its own right. Also, Lucario's ledgesnap range is absolutely amazing. There's really no other way to describe his amazing magnetic paws. Double Team can also be used for recovery (I wouldn't recommend it, but if you can predict them right, go for it,) allowing you an instant ticket on the invincibility train back to the stage, with absolutely nothing they can do to stop you.

Oh, and I'm guessing nobody cares about the Wall Cling, which works on a majority of legal stages, and even on some ledges when they're being hogged, right? Who cares about being one of the only two characters (Pit is the only other person) able to recover back to the stage from DIRECTLY UNDER THE CENTER OF FINAL DESTINATION without even a double jump? His recovery is sooooo mediocre, right?

Just smack him once and edgehog, just like Olimar!

Yeah pretty much. Sonic can recover from under FD with his homing attack (but nobody cares about that)

 

[MysticKenji]

...longest ranges of the maneuverable Up B's ( believe only Fox and Pit have more range),...

Rob and Lucas do too...and MK if the glide at the end of Shuttle Loop counts.

 

[Kitamerby]

Rob and Lucas do too...and MK if the glide at the end of Shuttle Loop counts.

They don't count.

Also, just ignore the Recovery Rankings topic. It'll fill your heads with lies! LUCARIO FOR GOD TIER. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

But seriously, I was only really thinking of the stop-and-go maneuverable recoveries, but yeah, I guess you're right in that case.

It's not like the distance is really what makes ExtremeSpeed so great, anyways. It's the maneuverability.

 

[_clinton]

clinton how is sonic too high?

Don't get me wrong...I think he is A rank...however his Side B can **** him w/o the 2nd jump

Oh and anyone saying Sonic can use all of his specials to help him recovery is full of BS

The homing attack sucks...get low then air dodge to see what I mean...or have him crash on the stage (not hitting anything other then the floor)

His Down B is worse in this case compared to his side B...his side B is down B 2.0 in the air...

Her vertical recovery isn't so bad either, but it isn't exceptional in any way as well...at least Peach can still knock the opponent off the edge using her parasol if they edgehog.

Her vertical recovery is bad ok...what part of 3rd worse in the game don't you understand? The ones that have worse are Olimar and a Solo Ice Climber...however she ties with Ivysaur...

At least Olimar and Ivysaur have ropes coming out with theirs!

And again...Ness is at least C rank...my wall of text that I made will not be avoided!

I'm saying, he's not DEAD last, lke everyone makes him out to be (or at least that's what I get)
~Fino

I'm pretty sure I've never said Olimar was dead last...hell I like Olimar's more then Ivysaur's, Link's, and Ganondorf's as well...but yeah I get you...

I love how everyone completely writes off Lucario's recovery as mediocre despite the fact that ExtremeSpeed has one of the longest ranges of the maneuverable Up B's ( believe only Fox and Pit have more range),

Kitamerby...I'm going to use you ^_^

Ness, and Lucas say hi as well

as well as the fact that it can curve around obstacles (allowing recoveries from areas that other characters couldn't dream of recovering from, like directly under the center of FD or under the lip of Lylat).

Actually Ness and Lucas can also climb walls and that stuff if aimed right as well...

If stalling counts as helping recovery, Dair does the trick. If you're worried about edgeguarders, Fair and Dair have incredible priority, fighting off pretty much anyone not named MK, Marf, GnW, or possibly DDD.

The problem with stalling when it comes to Lucario is that...extreme speed doesn't have a hit box...why be afraid of it?
...but yeah...he can stall I guess...

But yeah...Ness, and Lucas can stall as well...and both Ness and Lucas have really great defense air games as well...

His incredible floatiness often makes it so that he doesn't have to use his very respectable double jump, which has great range in its own right.

Kind of like Ness and Lucas...only it is their PK thunder instead...because of how great their 2nd jumps are...

Also, Lucario's ledgesnap range is absolutely amazing. There's really no other way to describe his amazing magnetic paws.

Ness and Lucas' ledgesnap range is amazing as well...a bit better with Ness...however Lucas has a snake rope/rope snake...

Oh and I would describe Ness and Lucas' as...

Their ****ing psychic ok!

Oh, and I'm guessing nobody cares about the Wall Cling, which works on a majority of legal stages, and even on some ledges when they're being hogged, right? Who cares about being one of the only two characters (Pit is the only other person) able to recover back to the stage from DIRECTLY UNDER THE CENTER OF FINAL DESTINATION without even a double jump? His recovery is sooooo mediocre, right?

Meh...FD, YI (both), Pictochat, Green Greens, and a few others doesn't count as majority of legal stages but ok...

Well...I might have missed a few...

Oh and I don't see Rank C as bad just to let you know...

 

[brinboy789]

ZSS: tether move = AT LEAST LOW TIER

 

[MysticKenji]

Meh...FD, YI (both), Pictochat, Green Greens, and a few others doesn't count as majority of legal stages but ok...

Well...I might have missed a few...

FD
Yoshi's (Barwl)
Castle Siege
Halberd
Lylat
PS1
Corneria
Distant Planet
Frigate
GHZ*
Mansion
Pictochat
Pirate Ship*
Cruise
Yoshi's (Melee)
Green Greens
Port Town*

14 (17) out of 27

 

[Kitamerby]

Actually Ness and Lucas can also climb walls and that stuff if aimed right as well...

....

Here. Once you can get Ness or Lucas to do this, come back here and repeat that sentence. Until then, just stop arguing this point right now.

The problem with stalling when it comes to Lucario is that...extreme speed doesn't have a hit box...why be afraid of it?
...but yeah...he can stall I guess...

If you're edgehogging properly, it shouldn't matter whether it has a hitbox or not. The point is that he doesn't even NEED to go for the ledge. Hell, he doesn't even need to use his double jump early if he feels like it. He can just airdodge down and double jump into the wall directly to a cling as a mix-up.

But yeah...Ness, and Lucas can stall as well...and both Ness and Lucas have really great defense air games as well...

Except Ness's forward aerial I hear loses range when he's using it while moving forwards, as opposed to Lucario's forward aerial, which has the same amount of range as Ness's. However, one thing that separates Lucario from the PK boys in terms of air defense is that Lucario doesn't even need to attack. If he's good enough with his predictions, he could theoretically use a Double Team to counter any edgeguard attempts to get back with no chance of retaliation. Airdodging will only get you so far, after all.

Kind of like Ness and Lucas...only it is their PK thunder instead...because of how great their 2nd jumps are...

Except Lucario doesn't get automatically gimped when someone jumps above him, and won't die automatically when he's hit with any weak move after his double jump. He also gets his recovery special back after being hit with a projectile during it, meaning that he won't suffer from the reduced range that Ness gets when he gets smacked by projectiles during his recovery. Also, Lucas's and Ness's PK Thunder 2 moves are NOT in any way, shape, or form even close to as maneuverable as Lucario's, and Ness's is in NO way, shape, or form even close to being as reliable.

Ness and Lucas' ledgesnap range is amazing as well...a bit better with Ness...however Lucas has a snake rope/rope snake...

Oh and I would describe Ness and Lucas' as...

Their ****ing psychic ok!

Lucario's ledgesnap is on par or greater than Ness's. Lucas's tether recovery is irrelevant, as he is unable to use it after performing his recovery special, and for a tether, it has very limited range, opposed to Lucario's Wall Cling which can be done from a variety of angles and from quite a distance away.

Meh...FD, YI (both), Pictochat, Green Greens, and a few others doesn't count as majority of legal stages but ok...

Well...I might have missed a few...

Yoshi's Island(kinda), Final Destination, Pictochat, Green Greens, Halberd (Part 2), Battlefield (Okay, you can't recover from there, but it counts!), Castle Siege, Pokemon Stadium 1, Brinstar (when connector thingy is broken), Corneria (like you'll ever use it, but wtfever), Distant Planet, Frigate Orpheon (<3 Frigate), Green Hill Zone (when floor breaks), Norfair (the bottommost platform), Pokemon Stadium 2, Rainbow Cruise (various), Yoshi's Island Melee (Pipes, and the spinning block hole), Onett (useless, but meh), Port Town Aero Drive (During certain areas).

And that's only the legal stages.

 

[Levitas]

The problem with manuvering lucario's extremespeed is that it loses range quickly.

As far as wall climbing is concerned, it's a phenomenon carried over from melee called "sloping", and happens when you move at an angle similar to the wall you're following. it works.

Ness's fair doesn't lose range while moving in any significant fashion, it covers him well still.

Double team relys on yomi, it's not a valid boost to his recovery in any kind of consistent manner.


Ness's recovery is worse than lucarios. Lucas's is much better. and yes, his pkt2 is considerably more reliable than ES.

 

[BBQ°]

Switch Sonic with G&W.

Sonic cannot sweetspot the edge. G&W's recovery cannot be gimped unless he gets grabbed and he shouldn't get grabbed because he can sweetspot the edge.

 

[Kitamerby]

The problem with manuvering lucario's extremespeed is that it loses range quickly.

...WHAT? I have no idea what the hell that's supposed to mean.

As far as wall climbing is concerned, it's a phenomenon carried over from melee called "sloping", and happens when you move at an angle similar to the wall you're following. it works.

...You've... never used Lucario since buying the game, have you? Go use Lucario and jump at a wall in Stage Builder or Spear Pillar, and tell me that that's sloping.

Ness's fair doesn't lose range while moving in any significant fashion, it covers him well still.

However, if it really does lose range, then even if it isn't significant, it still must reduce the priority by enough for certain moves that could not get through a retreating fair to break through the approaching one.

Double team relys on yomi, it's not a valid boost to his recovery in any kind of consistent manner.

...Excuse me, what? Go use Double Team in the air, and tell me that isn't a significant boost. The fact that you're invincible for the entirety of the movement is also a huge plus.

Ness's recovery is worse than lucarios. Lucas's is much better. and yes, his pkt2 is considerably more reliable than ES.

Lucas's? Debatable. Ness's? Hell no.

 

[cj.Shark]

im just glad people are finally wiseing up and not whining how "pit is easily gimped" i dont care much for a tier list though tbh

 

[0RLY]

DUDE! Samus lives freaking forever! She's floaty and often lives to well over 150%. Bombs get vertical distance when recovering and she can make it back from the bottom of the screen with just her dj+upB.

 

[PKNintendo]

Im so awesome, my 3rd thread with this many pages. (score!)

 

[Hive]

@Orly -lol I said this earlier too... but somehow it always just manages to be forgotten ^^

no offense ^^

 

[Kitamerby]

DUDE! Samus lives freaking forever! She's floaty and often lives to well over 150%. Bombs get vertical distance when recovering and she can make it back from the bottom of the screen with just her dj+upB.

Most characters not named Bowser/DK/Peach can do that.

Also, bombs give horizontal distance, not vertical distance.

 

[Hive]

yea, but they really don't need much vertical distance.... (they do give some though...)
screw attack, and tether both compensate for that....
like I said before she can go around fd using bombs plus jump to screw attack...