MK v Zelda is definitely not 80:20

[Attila_]

i dont think it works like that. a ganon does not beat an mk of equal skill 20% of the time.

the ratio might be used so that 80:20 means that the ganon has to be 4 times better than the mk to win. that makes sense lol

more reasons why i said the ratio should be scrapped and replaced with even/advantage/auto-win.

way more broad yet oddly way more accurate.

 

[Dekar289]

a more important ratio is the earl jaice matchup
9001:0

 

[Aussierob123]

That concept makes even less sense in the form of a ratio lol.

Yeah, these ratio's don't make sense at all, whether it be 80:20 = ganon needs to be 4x better or that they only win 20% of matches.

 

[Rianogard]

a more important ratio is the earl jaice matchup
9001:0

tl;dr .

 

[xXArrowXx]

ratios make sense >.> but as said previously they seem to be taken as an absolute. when u could just say vague words like soft and strong counter.

so using attila's method =P the match up would be advantage mk..
imo its even.

 

[Rad]

I was actually joking, but it turns out I was right. Scary stuff.

 

[TakFR]

Harry Ponting vs Charlie is 80:20 because Charlie wins sometimes but not often

 

[Dekar289]

i don't remember harry saying "not often"
this will require a more detailed analysis

 

[Timic83]

robsta is ****

 

[Splice]

robsta is the worst

 

[Remastered]

MK v Zelda is advantage MK so it's 60:40 at worst lol.

It's definitely not a hard counter or bad disadvantage to Zelda.

 

[Jei Jei]

But whats your reasoning for it to be so definite?
Because you can't beat your brother? Thats silly.

 

[Remastered]

The last 6 pages has my info regarding the MU in it. Lets call it advantage MK and be done with it

 

[Shaya]

MK v Zelda is at best -2.
Which is around the same match up that Marth would have against G&W.

It's actually closer to -3 because its around the same match up as falco vs pikachu. Or falco vs dk. or falco vs many characters who he *****.

AD3PT, I know you may be training your MK, and it has probably improved, but your MK I feel is not at the level of skill (in terms of you being aware of all of his options, how to space with him effectively, zoning, rush down, near guaranteed follow ups from very easy to achieve read situations, etc). Having you describe the match up as 60:40 advantage for MK (which is around +1 and maybe on the lower end of +2) is very very silly.

This isn't an attack on you or an attempt to wound your ego. But your MK is not good enough (yet?) to really make me swallow your opinion on the zelda match up.

 

[Remastered]

I did pick up MK 2 weeks before reloaded, so I can understand all of that . Would love a rematch against your Marth now Shaya, may not happen for a while though because I won't be at BAM.

I have improved since Reloaded, but ACL will be the telling tale if this is true or not.

 

[Shaya]

I wouldn't be surprised about me losing to anyone at this point =).

 

[Ghostbone]

MK v Zelda is advantage MK so it's 60:40 at worst lol.

It's definitely not a hard counter or bad disadvantage to Zelda.

Frankly to say that Zelda does as well against MK as Diddy is ridiculous.

 

[Rianogard]

On a related note, I think Zelda does quite well against Diddy too. Their desire to acquire the banana opens up for fair and bair funnies. Plus dair is lethal and safe against them when they are recovering.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Zelda is -4.

Edit: Zelda's glide toss is like... faster than Sonic. And she can pick the item up and glide toss it again.

That's probably the only reason I think she could go okay with Diddy.

 

[xXArrowXx]

b button reflects bananas

 

[KuroganeHammer]

It also gets you punished.

 

[Remastered]

I remember Jaice used to beat our top Diddy in QLD (SeaDORF) using Zelda. That was back when Jaice didn't actually take the time to learn the character either.

From what I have seen of SD, Sea was at about par with him now.

 

[luke_atyeo]

I think most of you forget about just how much character knowledge makes a big difference.

everyone and their dog has at least some idea of what meta knight is capable of, and how to fight him, but pretty much nobody really knows anything about zelda.

so when a zelda, who knows metaknight, fights a metaknight who doesnt know zelda, and does really well or even beats the metaknight, that doesnt really mean as much as you guys make it out to mean.

the advantage of lower tier under-used characters, is that nobody knows how to fight them, so they do better then they should, but theres still a good reason why they are **** characters

 

[Dekar289]

but luke adept has trouble with jaice's zelda so it's definitely not 80:20

 

[Aussierob123]

Adept you should prob stop making massive assumptions, not because they are wrong or whatever but because there's really not much way to tell and most people in the community frowns upon things like that.

Saying things like "based on what I've seen of SD, Sea and SD are the same level". What have you seen of sea and SD to make that assumption? This whole thread is a huge assumption in itself lol.

 

[Attila_]

ill tell you something that isn't an assumption though.

ZELDA'S UPB CLANKS WITH SNAKE'S UTILT

wtf is that about?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Zelda's up b has weird priority. Sometimes it can beat out Olimar's fair with purple pikmin, and other times it'll lose to Mario's dtilt.

I think it has something to do with the hitbox.

 

[seaDORF]

I remember Jaice used to beat our top Diddy in QLD (SeaDORF) using Zelda. That was back when Jaice didn't actually take the time to learn the character either.

From what I have seen of SD, Sea was at about par with him now.

Whaaaat? I've never played jaice's zelda in tournament before but if you're referring to friendlies we played, i don't remember him beating me using zelda :S They were really close matches though and were usually last stock high percent. No doubt he'd arse-**** me now though seeing as I haven't played in 6+ months and he's obvs improved. **** brawl and **** smash but.

I kinda just lurk though to see wassup

 

[xXArrowXx]

lol sea
u gossip

on another note, I dont think people r getting it. MK v Zelda is definitely not 80:20

 

[KuroganeHammer]

MK vs Zelda might as well be 80:20.

 

[Shaya]

its probably 90:10 tbh.

 

[Remastered]

Sea come back and play, and beat Jaice. Someone has too. I meant in friendlies yeh, just wanted to make the point that Zelda v Diddy ain't all that bad.

@Rob: After watching S.D play a lot down at Reloaded, I can make an educated guess that both he and Sea are quite good at the game, given that Sea used to beat Jaice in tournaments. Sea could come back and quite easily beat me if he spent a week on the game.

Jaice has been playing Zelda for more than probably 6 months Luke, so I know how the character works. I usually didn't play MK against him is all.

 

[J-Birds]

You talk about your brother too much

 

[KuroganeHammer]

its probably 90:10 tbh.

Eh. No, that's G&W and Olimar.

 

[toki]

Ganon > thread

 

[Aussierob123]

You talk about your brother too much

Someone finally said it rofl.

 

[Rianogard]

ill tell you something that isn't an assumption though.

ZELDA'S UPB CLANKS WITH SNAKE'S UTILT

wtf is that about?

Yeah Zelda's UpB has many silly properties, with both the spiral animation and the ending animation. I remember when Matthew and I were playing one time, Matthew was on the stage and I was getting back onto the stage so that I could attack Matthew again, the UpB (when I was versing Matthew on FD) finished with me under the level and I was able to use UpB again even though I hadn't landed yet and was able to keep fighting Matthew. Matthew was shocked and Matthew's shock was similar to the shock that I experienced because both Matthew and I didn't expect that to happen so that I could fight Matthew again.

 

[tibs7]

On a related note, I think Zelda does quite well against Diddy too. Their desire to acquire the banana opens up for fair and bair funnies. Plus dair is lethal and safe against them when they are recovering.

challenge accepted

 

[luke_atyeo]

playing against 1 person's zelda in a secluded area doesnt really teach you the character at the level I'm talking about.

I would say I know snake really well (or did when I played the game) because I travelled the country and played all the best players, learnt all sorts of snake tricks from them, and then went to america and learnt from some of the best snake players there, and really studied the character.
Even then, I only know how to properly play 1 style and aspect of snakes gameplay well, and still could learn alot.

take into further consideration that in that scenario, you and jaice will also know each others personal habits really well which skews things further.

also SD is one of the best smashers in aus, when he gives a ****, which when it comes to brawl, is never, and he doesnt practice, but he's one of the only smashers I was ever scared to vs, and my wins were usually due to me exploiting his lack of game knowledge, or him not caring about the win.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

Yeah Zelda's UpB has many silly properties, with both the spiral animation and the ending animation. I remember when Matthew and I were playing one time, Matthew was on the stage and I was getting back onto the stage so that I could attack Matthew again, the UpB (when I was versing Matthew on FD) finished with me under the level and I was able to use UpB again even though I hadn't landed yet and was able to keep fighting Matthew. Matthew was shocked and Matthew's shock was similar to the shock that I experienced because both Matthew and I didn't expect that to happen so that I could fight Matthew again.

look at me rex banner I have a new hat