Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
That wasn't just directed at you, just saw that you mentioned it and wanted to try and set the record straight >_>
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MK v Zelda is definitely not 80:20
- Thread starter Remastered
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Remastered
Smash Lord
I only know about that whole wobbling business because other people have mentioned it and bring it up so often. I don't even think I read the original argument you were trying to make.
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
someone say the theory craft..
so i approach slowly with dair diagonally zoning that zelda broken up smash.
or i go bat**** fairs approach and zone that fsmash.
or i run in and go for grab to get pokedby fsmash or down tilt > up smash or forward smash.
tornado not really a solid option :/
so i approach slowly with dair diagonally zoning that zelda broken up smash.
or i go bat**** fairs approach and zone that fsmash.
or i run in and go for grab to get pokedby fsmash or down tilt > up smash or forward smash.
tornado not really a solid option :/
Rad
Smash Ace
Don't think too much. Play sensibly with a mix of Dash -> Shield, Dash Grab, Dash Attack, and Walk. Mix it up. Spam D-smash and Tornado when appropriate, and get her off stage as much as possible.
From there it should be pretty simple.
I have never played MK vs. Zelda before and if I did I'd probably lose.
From there it should be pretty simple.
I have never played MK vs. Zelda before and if I did I'd probably lose.
Retreating fair by mk?
Zelda will just dash attack that ****.
Match up is ****ING EVEN.
We're done here folks.
In a more serious light, I'm still not sure how zelda gets past MK's tilts.
Zelda will just dash attack that ****.
Match up is ****ING EVEN.
We're done here folks.
In a more serious light, I'm still not sure how zelda gets past MK's tilts.
Sourspot fair beats nado.
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
down tilt outrages mk's tilts :/
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Is Dtilt faster than MK's Ftilt?
Remastered
Smash Lord
No but Zelda fsmash makes Zelda lean back, so at best against someone who can DI well (Jaice) you get one tilt in and cop the fsmash or Zelda's down tilt which locks MK most of the time.
Zelda has so many options on Nado it's crazy. Even if she gets hit she pops out stupid easy and can invincibility frame neutral b, or nair, or dair, or dodge right the way through it.
Zelda has so many options on Nado it's crazy. Even if she gets hit she pops out stupid easy and can invincibility frame neutral b, or nair, or dair, or dodge right the way through it.
given that mk's ftilt outranges snake's utilt, i'm going to have to disagree with everyone here. zelda should have NOTHING at close range. hell, no one does.
do plan on heading up for summersmash maybe; i'll duck out for an aths meet while i'm there.
nah, its too difficult.
do plan on heading up for summersmash maybe; i'll duck out for an aths meet while i'm there.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Wouldn't she have a bit of a blind-spot diagonally above her?
Her only option if you approach from there is basically SH Fair, or some kind of defensive maneuver. I can't imagine it'd be that difficult to react to those options, so MK could probably pressure quite hard with SH dair.
Of course that is just theory-craft, I barely played against Nova's Zelda and he is the only one I've really had constant exposure to, lol.
Her only option if you approach from there is basically SH Fair, or some kind of defensive maneuver. I can't imagine it'd be that difficult to react to those options, so MK could probably pressure quite hard with SH dair.
Of course that is just theory-craft, I barely played against Nova's Zelda and he is the only one I've really had constant exposure to, lol.
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
daccus is abit of a problem with sh dairing.. so i guess i should get better. cant really air dodge it either :/
Short hop dair...
ZELDA'S DAIR?
I can't.
*leaves thread forever*
ZELDA'S DAIR?
I can't.
*leaves thread forever*
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
We were talking about Meta Knight's dair >_>
Oh okay. That makes sense. =D
Rad
Smash Ace
I don't get what people are saying in this thread. You get hit by Zelda's... anything? SDI out and try again. You took 3% and no knockback.
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
which way i sdi out.. straight up?... super sdi?
are you guys arguing that zelda spamming fsmash is reliable walling or an approach?
serious questions.
serious questions.
Rad
Smash Ace
But if you run at Zelda over and over without thinking it ***** you!!!
Rad
Smash Ace
I honestly have no right to be talking like this
Actually you'd take less than 3%. More like half a percent.
Remastered
Smash Lord
Just play Jaice's Zelda with MK when you guys see him next. It ain't as fun as the MU info suggests on the boards.
You DI up and SDI away for all of her smashes just btw, but you still cop a lot of damage if you are silly enough to get hit with it.
It's not that it out ranges a' it's that Zelda leans back on the build up of the smash. I still think MK has the range if the attack went toe to toe, but the lean back before Zelda attacks gives her distance from the tilt enough to not be hit by it.
You DI up and SDI away for all of her smashes just btw, but you still cop a lot of damage if you are silly enough to get hit with it.
It's not that it out ranges a' it's that Zelda leans back on the build up of the smash. I still think MK has the range if the attack went toe to toe, but the lean back before Zelda attacks gives her distance from the tilt enough to not be hit by it.
Zelda has little drawback when she charges her forward smash. There is some, but it's not like Sonic's or anything.
^^
So you just space the tilt properly
compensate for this apparent lean
youre making out like zelda fsmash is the ultimate approach counter or something =/
But yeah probs not 80/20 but no where near good for Zelda. I wouldnt say anything is 80/20 unless there is atleast like some really swingy factor like an infinite or such
So you just space the tilt properly
compensate for this apparent lean
youre making out like zelda fsmash is the ultimate approach counter or something =/
But yeah probs not 80/20 but no where near good for Zelda. I wouldnt say anything is 80/20 unless there is atleast like some really swingy factor like an infinite or such
To be fair, her forward smash is pretty good if perfectly spaced, but then, so is pretty much every other move in the game. lol
Leisha
Top Tier Pillow
I do know its nearly impossible to SDI with rob out of the u-smash, so I generally hate zelda. But I'd say thats the cause of bad skill on my part.
Not 80-20 for the mk matchup though, probably 70:30 at least though. Zelda is pretty ew
Not 80-20 for the mk matchup though, probably 70:30 at least though. Zelda is pretty ew
Naa 80:20 is about right.
Though everyone disagrees what match-up ratio's mean so meh.
It's pretty terrible for Zelda at least.
F-tilt out-ranges everything, what punish does she have on MK's fair on shield? Hell what punish does she have for MK's d-smash on shield? Does her d-smash work? (I legitimately don't know what her OoS options are against most of MK's stuff, what can she do against nair on shield?)
Up-smash is like impossible to SDI out of so meh, but F-smash is easy enough, just SDI up.
She doesn't lean back that far lol, and it's not that fast either, it's not some godly move in the match-up.
Some of her moves are powerful, but she shouldn't be hitting with them if you avoid them properly.
Though everyone disagrees what match-up ratio's mean so meh.
It's pretty terrible for Zelda at least.
F-tilt out-ranges everything, what punish does she have on MK's fair on shield? Hell what punish does she have for MK's d-smash on shield? Does her d-smash work? (I legitimately don't know what her OoS options are against most of MK's stuff, what can she do against nair on shield?)
Up-smash is like impossible to SDI out of so meh, but F-smash is easy enough, just SDI up.
She doesn't lean back that far lol, and it's not that fast either, it's not some godly move in the match-up.
Some of her moves are powerful, but she shouldn't be hitting with them if you avoid them properly.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
She can up smash if MK nairs her shield.
this is very true imo.
the ratios are far too confusing and non-specific.
we should have mus as:
even
disadvantaged/advantaged
impossible/auto-win
and that's it. numbers are too finicky.
asianaussie
Smash Hero
attila has it right
ratios are stupid, 80:20 does not mean the zelda will win 20% of matches over a large sample
i only say this because it's what people seem to think it means
ratios are stupid, 80:20 does not mean the zelda will win 20% of matches over a large sample
i only say this because it's what people seem to think it means
Redact
Professional Nice Guy
We need to use real life matchups describe character matchups. Eg: dekar vs robsta is 100:0 but like dekar vs x is 50:50.... Wait what
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
I agree with Attila...
Even/Soft Counter/Hard Counter would be really simple and there wouldn't be many debates.
Even/Soft Counter/Hard Counter would be really simple and there wouldn't be many debates.
asianaussie
Smash Hero
everyone vs robsta is 100:0
robsta ditto is 0:0 and the winner is harry ponting
just use even/small advantage/advantage/heavy advantage/auto-win and its loss counterparts
robsta ditto is 0:0 and the winner is harry ponting
just use even/small advantage/advantage/heavy advantage/auto-win and its loss counterparts
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
80:20 would be a hard counter.
point is its not. soft counter at most.
point is its not. soft counter at most.
Rad
Smash Ace
What are you even discussing?
Although... perhaps being a Marth main I have an understanding of what MU ratios represent that a common Snake, or say Ike main, couldn't comprehend.
Although... perhaps being a Marth main I have an understanding of what MU ratios represent that a common Snake, or say Ike main, couldn't comprehend.
luke_atyeo
Smash Hero
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I beat my little brothers mk with ganon all the time, that matchup is so wrong, mk cant do **** to ganon, its like 100:0
and neither can my friend, so its more like 200:0
yes thats how stupid most of you on this site are
and neither can my friend, so its more like 200:0
yes thats how stupid most of you on this site are
Aussierob123
Smash Champion
I always wondered this.
Can someone explain why 80:20 match-up ratio doesn't mean zelda would win 20% of the time? People always use that argument when they are talking about match-up ratio, but if that's not how it works then it's not a ratio...
Can someone explain why 80:20 match-up ratio doesn't mean zelda would win 20% of the time? People always use that argument when they are talking about match-up ratio, but if that's not how it works then it's not a ratio...
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