brinboy789
Smash Champion
madness? THIS IS SPARTA!
LOL:
Metaknight has a few serious issues with his gameplay.
1. Incredibly laggy f/b air attacks
I know, you're thinking "they have zero lag". This is true, but only AFTER the attack is finished. His attacks take forever when he just throws them out due to the multiple hits they have. This can be easily abused by people that have large disjointed hitboxes (Dedede, Marth, Ike, etc.) by baiting MK's attacks and then attacking during the duration of the attack. Characters with really good rolls (such as Lucario or Pit) can simply roll behind MK and capitalize from there with a quick attack.
This requires a lot of patience and excellent spacing, but it works just fine. I do just as well with my Lucario as I do with my ROB, and my Lucario is very unpolished. This is simply because I bait attacks and roll behind MK and pressure him from there.
2. MK is incredibly light
It is very easy to KO MK off the top if you have the right attacks. Make sure you SAVE your best aerial killing moves against MK. Keep in mind that every time you grab someone and hit them out of the grab with the A button, each individual hit recharges your other moves! It only takes 9, so two or three grabs can recharge everything.
Characters like Donkey Kong can destroy Metaknight easily by only using two moves. Their high priority damage dealer (in DK's case, a back-air) and a powerful launcher (for DK, his d-smash). Other characters don't have it quite as easy, but my game against MK is generally just racking up damage and playing keep-away until he is at a killing %, and then I try to throw out an up-smash or other aerial killing move.
It never ceases to surprise Metaknight's when they die at a mere 50 or 60% because they DI up and towards you out of instinct. This is not the best DI for getting out of a vertical killing move; in fact it is almost the worst. Knowing that this is how most Metaknight players will DI, make sure you challenge them in the air. The higher you can get him in the air, the easier it will be for him to die. ROB's neutral air can take hom out as low as 50% if MK is recovering from too high above.
3. Metaknight's Recovery is limited
MK's recovery is AMAZING. He can ALWAYS get back if he's alive unless the player messes up. However, that doesn't mean it isn't limited. His recovery is very laggy unless he grabs the edge or cancels the lag with a glide attack RIGHT AS HE HITS THE GROUND. Knowing this, you can space yourself to where he can't glide attack straight into you and follow up from there. You KNOW he's going to waste time glide attacking nothing to cancel the lag; if he doesn't you can run up and grab him anyway. I generally just launch MK into the air out of a throw after he recovers and attempt to get him to use his up+b again somehow and repeat the process. This also helps in challenging MK in the air. MK will rarely avoid you when he is in a glide, so run up to him and use a high priority move (such as ROB's nair, Dedede's forward air, DK's bair, etc.). At worst, you'll both hit each other, but that doesn't matter because you're attack will be stronger than his glide attack and you'll have a much greater chance to KO metaknight from the air.
4. Metaknight has to commit to everything
Metaknight can't trick you. If he does an aerial, he has to commit to it. Knowing this, you should know that you can control the flow of the match by baiting Metaknight's moves. The closest thing to a "mindgame" that Metaknight has is "when will he throw out his tornado". Metaknight will always approach you because he has to, so you're playing rock-paper-scissors with somebody that shows his hand on 2 instead of 3. Use that to your advantage and don't attack until after you see him doing something.
by: overswarm. head of the MK ban commitee
O.o. discuss. agree or disagree?I definitely feel Snake has the advantage on Metaknight. Metaknight has some nasty things on him. When Snake is in the air, Metaknight's aerial pressure can really put the hurt on him. However, on the ground I think Snake has a definite advantage, and it's very possible to avoid getting in the air for most of the match. Snake's camping is really hard for any character without a projectile to stop, and Metaknight is no exception.
My general gameplay vs Meta is pretty simple but very effective. I force Metaknight to approach using grenades, and when he approaches I do one of several things.
1. I dash backwards, turn around and Ftilt. If it doesn't hit, it keeps him away.
2. I dash grab, since a lot of people run at Snake and shield, expecting the Ftilt.
3. I Snakedash. Snakedashing beats every approach in the game, and it's nearly impossible to punish if you don't expect it.
4. And the obvious, Ftilt.
There's not much Metaknight can do about this strategy besides play really perfect and capitalize perfectly when Snake is in the air. Even then, it takes WAY longer for Metaknight to kill Snake, it's really unbalanced in the amount of effort Metaknight has to do compared to Snake. THEN you have Snake's grab game, which normally leads me to around 40-50 damage, at the very least normally 30 damage, and if I'm REALLY off, only 12 ish.
And even though Snake gets hurt in the air by Meta, he has a ton of options to counter with, more so than other characters. He can hold grenades, do a momentum switch, drop C4, mix in random Bairs, Nairs and even Dairs.
In terms of edgeguarding obviously Meta wins, but Snake can edgeguard Meta perhaps the best out of any character, or at least close. Bait him to use his up B, double jump C4 explosion kills at around 80 something. It's really silly. You can edgehog, hope they use their up B which 90% of the time they do, and do a ledgehop Bair. At high percents, this is an instant kill since Bair is so strong.
This next one is a Jesiah original strat . Grab the ledge, let him use his Up B then jump towards him and airdodge the glide attack. They will have to land on the stage, which is a free Dair. Dair is the ultimate punishing move, and because it does I think around 28% damage and has incredible knockback, I've seen it kill starting at ridiculously low percents, like 50 (before the first hit of the dair)
Also, even on most counterpicks I feel Snake has the advantage. It's true that Metaknight can outmanuever Snake on most stages, but on some he stands no chance. Take Norfair for example. If Snake starts off with the lead, there is no way Meta can approach him on the bottom most platform. It's too small, and shieldcamping combined with Usmash spam almost always results in Meta getting swatted away. Not to mention, most of the time they try to tornado and you just shield it, grab and Dthrow. Anywhere they go on that platform is a free Ftilt for Snake after the Dthrow. It's not hard for Snake to start with the lead either. If Meta gets the lead it can be a problem, since the platforms are nice for him. Even then he's bound to get hit by SOME projectile though.
Castle Siege- Advantage: Snake. It's so big Snake's never gonna die, there are so many places to camp on that stage. It's easy for him to manuever also as oppose to other smaller stages.
Luigi's Mansion- Advantage: Snake. This is debatable obviously, but he locks Meta down with Grenades horribly in the lower section, not to mention when the stage is completely broken it's like another FD which is hell for Meta vs Snake.
Corneria- Advantage: Snake. Meta stands no chance here.
Rainbow Cruise- Advantage: Metaknight. Just due to manueverability and how badly Snake can get gimped here, I don't think Snake has a good chance of winning.
Pokemon Stadium 1- Advantage: Snake. Stage is a bit like Castle Siege in the way it plays I feel. Big, Snake can manuever well and camp certain parts really well.
Pirate Ship- Advantage: Snake. One of the ultimate camping stages for Snake, and Meta dies pretty easily off the top. Needs to avoid the water though.
All neutrals Snake wins on, Battlefield is the closest Metaknight gets to winning, and even then if he gets caught on a platform in a Dthrow it's an auto infinite if Snake doesn't mess up, so that's just another advantage for Snake.
Really, I don't think Meta does that well vs Snake. I think it's 60-40 in Snake's favor, even though a better Metaknight can definitely beat a better Snake.
This matchup reminds me of Sheik vs Marth in Melee, but only a bit opposite. Sheik vs Marth at lower levels of play put Sheik at a huge advantage, but as the skill levels increased the matchup became more even. I think for Snake vs MK, Snake definitely wins at higher levels of play if the Snake is good at camping and abuses all of Snake's traits that make him Snake.
This brings me to another point. Many people are beginning to think Snake is not nearly as good as Metaknight because he can be edgeguarded well, he has problems in the air and some other silly weaknesses.
Fact is, Snake is not that far behind Metaknight at all. Metaknight can't deal 21% damage with a very, very, very broken attack. When Snake Dthrows someone it's automatically 12, usually around 30 %, and if you're good on average between 40-50 damage. Metaknight can't do this.
His killing power makes it so easy for him to get kills, and while Meta doesn't have to work THAT hard to get kills, Snake's ease of kills is just such a help. Combine that with the fact that Snake's traps are nearly impossible to stop, and you have yourself what is possibly the best character. An example for you all.
If someone is at 110% and they've just gotten up from the ledge or for some reason they're near the ledge, 80% chance they are dead, maybe 85%. All you have to do is Ftilt their shield once. If they roll, Utilt. If they stand there, grab and that is GUARANTEED free KO. If they jump, Utilt. There's just nothing they can do to escape besides try and dash grab you, but you can't shield in your initial dash animation so Utilt beats that too. If you grab and Dthrow and they are near the edge, there is nothing they can do to escape a Dthrow.
It just looks like Metaknight is better than Snake because he's easier to use, and he's nearly unpunishable. It doesn't matter though. Snake is much more punishable than Metaknight, but his advantages far outweigh his ability to be punished, and he has much much more room for punishment than MK does anyways. Snake lives forever, he doesn't care about taking 50-75% damage from being edgeguarded. MK can't be edgegaurded well, but it doesn't matter due to how much quicker he gets killed than Snake.
I am in the opinion that Snake is the best game, but people are blinded by MK's ease of use. Example: Snake can't go around Ftilting everything like MK can, because Meta's is unpunishable and with some characters you can punish Snake's. He still has options though that are BETTER than MK's. Instead of Ftilting the shield, you grab. So, Meta has Ftilted the shield and gotten away unpunished, and now Snake has a grab which can lead to death at higher percents or ridiculous damage at lower percents. Advantage? Snake.
This is Jesiah, I'm done here.
LOL:
Metaknight has a few serious issues with his gameplay.
1. Incredibly laggy f/b air attacks
I know, you're thinking "they have zero lag". This is true, but only AFTER the attack is finished. His attacks take forever when he just throws them out due to the multiple hits they have. This can be easily abused by people that have large disjointed hitboxes (Dedede, Marth, Ike, etc.) by baiting MK's attacks and then attacking during the duration of the attack. Characters with really good rolls (such as Lucario or Pit) can simply roll behind MK and capitalize from there with a quick attack.
This requires a lot of patience and excellent spacing, but it works just fine. I do just as well with my Lucario as I do with my ROB, and my Lucario is very unpolished. This is simply because I bait attacks and roll behind MK and pressure him from there.
2. MK is incredibly light
It is very easy to KO MK off the top if you have the right attacks. Make sure you SAVE your best aerial killing moves against MK. Keep in mind that every time you grab someone and hit them out of the grab with the A button, each individual hit recharges your other moves! It only takes 9, so two or three grabs can recharge everything.
Characters like Donkey Kong can destroy Metaknight easily by only using two moves. Their high priority damage dealer (in DK's case, a back-air) and a powerful launcher (for DK, his d-smash). Other characters don't have it quite as easy, but my game against MK is generally just racking up damage and playing keep-away until he is at a killing %, and then I try to throw out an up-smash or other aerial killing move.
It never ceases to surprise Metaknight's when they die at a mere 50 or 60% because they DI up and towards you out of instinct. This is not the best DI for getting out of a vertical killing move; in fact it is almost the worst. Knowing that this is how most Metaknight players will DI, make sure you challenge them in the air. The higher you can get him in the air, the easier it will be for him to die. ROB's neutral air can take hom out as low as 50% if MK is recovering from too high above.
3. Metaknight's Recovery is limited
MK's recovery is AMAZING. He can ALWAYS get back if he's alive unless the player messes up. However, that doesn't mean it isn't limited. His recovery is very laggy unless he grabs the edge or cancels the lag with a glide attack RIGHT AS HE HITS THE GROUND. Knowing this, you can space yourself to where he can't glide attack straight into you and follow up from there. You KNOW he's going to waste time glide attacking nothing to cancel the lag; if he doesn't you can run up and grab him anyway. I generally just launch MK into the air out of a throw after he recovers and attempt to get him to use his up+b again somehow and repeat the process. This also helps in challenging MK in the air. MK will rarely avoid you when he is in a glide, so run up to him and use a high priority move (such as ROB's nair, Dedede's forward air, DK's bair, etc.). At worst, you'll both hit each other, but that doesn't matter because you're attack will be stronger than his glide attack and you'll have a much greater chance to KO metaknight from the air.
4. Metaknight has to commit to everything
Metaknight can't trick you. If he does an aerial, he has to commit to it. Knowing this, you should know that you can control the flow of the match by baiting Metaknight's moves. The closest thing to a "mindgame" that Metaknight has is "when will he throw out his tornado". Metaknight will always approach you because he has to, so you're playing rock-paper-scissors with somebody that shows his hand on 2 instead of 3. Use that to your advantage and don't attack until after you see him doing something.
by: overswarm. head of the MK ban commitee