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MK? bad matchup? THIS IS MADNESS (now with overswarm NAMING MK's weaknesses! LOL)

JesiahTEG

JesiahTEG

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InfernoOmni said:
For those who played Melee, picture MK as Fox. If MK is played perfectly, he would be unbeatable just as if Fox is played perfectly.

MK's tough match-ups are as following:
Snake
Falco
DDD
Wario
Diddy

Snake because from the start of the match, MK is at a disadvantage. If Snake plays smart and patient and trades damage with grenades, MK will enter kill range first. Also, a good Snake player will always choose to be safe, responsive, and conservative rather than being risky against MK. In the end, MK does not have a completely safe approach toward Snake. The advantage for MK in this match-up is if he succeeds in getting Snake in the air or off the stage. The only Snake I've lost to in tournament was DSF, and I've played my fair share of Snakes. I don't mean to sound like an elitist, but unless you're in area with heavily populated talented Snakes such as Chillin, Greg, Candy then it would be too hard for you to judge.

I'll explain Falco, DDD, and Wario more if asked.

This weekend, I lost to Azen's Marth and Chu's Kirby. Was it because Marth and Kirby are tough match-ups for MK? No. It was because Azen and Chu understand MK's weaknesses. The same goes for Bum's DK who was able to beat a tornado-spamming Inui.

My point is that specific character isn't what gives MK a bad match-up. It's the person's play style who's using the character that turns the match into a bad one.
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Good post mah dude, but I still think that even if MK gets Snake in the air a few times, the advantage is still with Snake. I think it takes Snake being in the air a considerable amount of times for the matchup to be IN MK's favor.
 
Nic64

Nic64

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1,725
I'll explain Falco, DDD, and Wario more if asked.
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gotta say I'm curious, especially DDD and falco, I really don't see how those aren't comfortably in MK's favor(more so DDD than anything, I understand falco has some strengths although he gets ***** off the stage)
 
ADHD

ADHD

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B button > dedede

Diddy can only win with nanerz, it's stressful to gain control with that speed against a metaknight that doesn't suck.
 
Infinitysmash

Infinitysmash

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Mar 17, 2008
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bludhoundz said:
I am not sure what you are referring to in your first sentence. If it's directed toward something I said previously -- I don't believe I made any claims that weren't backed up by something. If you're just saying that at least he presented some data - I fully agree, he's done a lot better than a lot of people in this thread by actually posting some type of proof. However Wifi isn't a fully accurate representation of what good MKs and good Snakes (yeah, good players ARE good players) are capable of, and thus using that data doesn't make his argument irrefutable.
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Looking back on that it did seem a bit abbrasive. I was mostly complaining because I see a lot of people who are outspoken against Metaknight do nothing but complain and not back it up; I was simply pointing out that at least this dude is backing up his point. Sorry if it sounded like I was belittling you or lumping you in with them, I didn't intend it that way.

-Affinity- said:
Brawl Wifi is a joke. Even if there's no lag, there's delay (button lag). This goes even for a blue connection.
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When I played you the night before Hobo I was using a WaveBird. They have a roughly 2 frame button lag. You've got your reputation and I know you want to keep it so I won't say anything further about us playing, but implying that button lag makes something a joke isn't correct at all dude.

InfernoOmni said:
It's the person's play style who's using the character that turns the match into a bad one.
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QFT; I've been saying this from the beginning. Smart players win at this game.
 
Affinity

Affinity

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Affinity2412
I_Am_Infinity said:
When I played you the night before Hobo I was using a WaveBird. They have a roughly 2 frame button lag. You've got your reputation and I know you want to keep it so I won't say anything further about us playing, but implying that button lag makes something a joke isn't correct at all dude.
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Delay affects different people in different ways. Like I, for example, can't play in delay at all because I have a hard time adjusting.

Nonetheless, Wifi shouldn't be used as an accurate representation of skill. Its just wise not to.
 
fromundaman

fromundaman

Henshin a go-go Baby!
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Heh... funny how many characters I keep hearing are "the best" at edge guarding MK...

Can't say I've played good enough Snakes to have too much of an opinion on this match-up, and while I agree with some of what was said, here's a few comments on the OP:

-Come on now, MK does **** Snake in the air. Well, a careful MK anyway. His aerial attacks come out MUCH faster than Snakes, and, at least against the Snakes I've played, it is very easy to predict when they are going to use an aerial. Sure, you can pull out a grenade, but if you do that in the air, you can't shield it, so you're going to blow up too, and, depending on the percentage, it can be worse for Snake than MK or vice versa. Also, I'm not certain, but I *believe* MK's Uair is fast enough to hit between the kicks on Snake's Nair like Shiek's Nair does.

-
double jump C4 explosion kills at around 80 something.
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Maybe I'm missing something, but how is this an edge guarding technique? Also, a lot of your edge guarding strats assume he will UpB every time. While that is a very great strat MK tends to use, after the first or second time being countered, he's going to switch it up.

-I'm kind of surprised you didn't mention Brinistar at all. That stage is an amazing Snake stage.


Also, this is probably a ******** question, but since I can't find it anywhere, what is the snakedash?

Finally, does MK's Bair outrange Snake's Ftilt?
 
LuigiKing

LuigiKing

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Brinboy sure knows how to make himself look like a tool =/

Also, gheb I think you're sexy, but only because you live in Derris Kharlan. Zelos is sexier than you though, just saying. Waaaaay sexier.
 
fromundaman

fromundaman

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aeghrur said:
Lmao!
That's hilarious, hahaha.
Seriously, how DO falcos stop planking? Lasers? Nope. D-smash? Punish/invince. Shine? Maybe. :O D-air? miss? =/
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This might be a ridiculous proposition (I don't play Falco much, if ever. God I hate that bird... but I digress...), but couldn't he spam the reflector at you? It gives him a little range so MK can't hit him straight from the ledge, I *believe* it can knock you off the ledge if the inv frames wear off, and it has higher priority than the shuttle loop.
 
B

bludhoundz

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fromundaman said:
This might be a ridiculous proposition (I don't play Falco much, if ever. God I hate that bird... but I digress...), but couldn't he spam the reflector at you? It gives him a little range so MK can't hit him straight from the ledge, I *believe* it can knock you off the ledge if the inv frames wear off, and it has higher priority than the shuttle loop.
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The reflector doesn't have a hitbox that reaches low enough to hit someone hanging on the edge. MK can just sit there and keep sweetspotting the edge, and as long as he never goes above it, he's completely untouchable.
 
V

viparagon

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fromundaman said:
Heh... funny how many characters I keep hearing are "the best" at edge guarding MK...

Can't say I've played good enough Snakes to have too much of an opinion on this match-up, and while I agree with some of what was said, here's a few comments on the OP:

-Come on now, MK does **** Snake in the air. Well, a careful MK anyway. His aerial attacks come out MUCH faster than Snakes, and, at least against the Snakes I've played, it is very easy to predict when they are going to use an aerial. Sure, you can pull out a grenade, but if you do that in the air, you can't shield it, so you're going to blow up too, and, depending on the percentage, it can be worse for Snake than MK or vice versa. Also, I'm not certain, but I *believe* MK's Uair is fast enough to hit between the kicks on Snake's Nair like Shiek's Nair does.

-
Maybe I'm missing something, but how is this an edge guarding technique? Also, a lot of your edge guarding strats assume he will UpB every time. While that is a very great strat MK tends to use, after the first or second time being countered, he's going to switch it up.

-I'm kind of surprised you didn't mention Brinistar at all. That stage is an amazing Snake stage.


Also, this is probably a ******** question, but since I can't find it anywhere, what is the snakedash?

Finally, does MK's Bair outrange Snake's Ftilt?
Click to expand...
snake lives twice as long as MK though, so eqqual damage for both ussually works to snakes favor.
 
I

itsthebigfoot

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Summary of this thread

Actual metaknight and snake mains "yeah, snakes bad for metaknight, here's why"

Ban metaknight people "LOLZ MEATKNIGHT IS TEH BEST EVAR!!!1!!11!! he has no bed matchups"
 
Nic64

Nic64

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meatknight doesn't have bad matchups, he is unbeatable :)

snake is bad for metaknight though
 
Staco

Staco

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laki said:
How does Metaknight beat snake?

D-tilt. SERIOUSLY.

If meta correctly spaces d-tilt than snake has no good option besides retreating.

I know this is oversimplefying things a bit but metas d-tilt is a HUGE bonus for meta in the matchup.

If snake shields, by the time he drops his shield, meta can just follow up with whatever he feels like. Even if he shield drops a gernade, with decent spacing (doesn't even need to be really good, just not horrible), the explosion won't hit meta.

Snake is outranged on the ground by D-tilt and the last hit of f-tilt. Seriously metas tilts>>>Snakes.

Sure snake can run from meta and throw gernades but metas rushdown>>> snakes camping.

The only thing good thing snake has is snake dashing and if he does that to much, it becomes predictable.
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granade beats dtilt so hard! xD

and stop this mk is unbeatable stuff
people manipulate the minds of people
if there wouldnt be a mk bann topic, nobody wanted mk to bann!
 
Infinitysmash

Infinitysmash

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itsthebigfoot said:
Summary of this thread

Actual metaknight and snake mains "yeah, snakes bad for metaknight, here's why"

Ban metaknight people "LOLZ MEATKNIGHT IS TEH BEST EVAR!!!1!!11!! he has no bed matchups"
Click to expand...
Yeah, and it's a shame there's more people in the second group than the first group and it's causing this huge debate over him. Maybe I'll start making videos about how to beat Metaknight...
 
CaliburChamp

CaliburChamp

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People who are calling for an MK ban just make me want to play the character MORE. Just to piss them off enough until they quit brawl.
 
aeghrur

aeghrur

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Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
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Minnesota
lololololololololol
MK IS GODLY, he has no baaaaad matchupz, he betez snakes like, pew pew wwwwwwwwrrrrrllllll, xing xing, boom, KAWAAAAAAAA. Den snake be like, BOOM. and metaknight be like, lolololololololol, dtilt nub. yah.
 
Deoxys

Deoxys

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Joined
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Messages
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near Boston, MA
Crizthakidd said:
snake goes the closest to what we call even with MK.
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How's the weather in that cave you're in?

itsthebigfoot said:
Summary of this thread

Actual metaknight and snake mains "yeah, snakes bad for metaknight, here's why"

Ban metaknight people "LOLZ MEATKNIGHT IS TEH BEST EVAR!!!1!!11!! he has no bed matchups"
Click to expand...
LOL

Nic64 said:
meatknight doesn't have bad matchups, he is unbeatable :)

snake is bad for metaknight though
Click to expand...
lolwut?
 
N

N1v

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Joined
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Messages
4
LuigiKing said:
Brinboy sure knows how to make himself look like a tool =/
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brinboy789 said:
.............................................................................
wtf?
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brinboy789 said:
i suck at this game? this is from some random person i played from smashboards:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir 0rion
I would have liked to play your Meta Knight more, but good games. You have got some major skill.

i totally suck.

/not bragging
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I thought this was funny.
 
aeghrur

aeghrur

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For some reason, I don't see Overswarm.
I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU LIED TO ME BRINBOY. *backhand*
 
TechnoMonster

TechnoMonster

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Messages
836
CaliburChamp said:
If the player is known to lag alot, then no its not an exact representation. Look to see in their feedback to see people's comments on the lag. I'm talking about red connection and orange connection lag, making the lag ruin your game.
Its actually a good deciding point to this whole argument.

This is Clouderz (A top online Metaknight player) record:http://allisbrawl.com/ladder/player.aspx?id=3632
Notice... he lost to Ally, he uses Snake... also notice that he lost to SK92 Falco... this tells me that a high level Meta knight player will usually lose to Snakes and Falco players at around the same level of skill.

This is the proof I'm talking about. Snake and Falco are bad match ups for Meta Knight.
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Or it could be that SK92 is a ****ing monster and Clouderz never had a chance :)
zomgtrashtalk

Wifi plays significantly differently than live play, and most live tournament champions consider it to be just for fun or a total joke, including said referenced SK92.

_umbra_ said:
I know what you mean. Falco is easily the most boring character in this game to face.
Click to expand...
You've got to be kidding me.
 
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