Metagame Minute, DI Part 4, Out Now! 12/13/2011 UPDATE!

[rPSIvysaur]

It doesn't have to be fast-fallen. The n-air just can't be buffered.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I think one of the problems at hand is simply because the 3rd hit really just doesn't reach far enough. Didn't test this on some of the shorter techrolls though, so you might have a really character specific case though.

 

[clowsui]

Does that even happen in tournament? Seriously think for a moment how difficult that is to do.

I will tell you though that I love grabbing people near the edge if they techroll towards it. Free F-smash!

it's not hard to do, you just hold backwards and flick forwards as you tech

 

[B.A.M.]

Im implying that you have not ( at least to my knowledge) worked with GIMR on MGM. If thats not the case then I apologize. Otherwise, you are forgiven for your insolence.
And please dont make the assumption that I fall into the category of people that are too lazy to actually research the game's mechanics. Thats just rude lol. I came from a competitive fighting game scene before brawl. Which means I actually try to research. I read and test frame data to the best of my ability. I try to analyze the game in every way I can.

Sorry if that offends everyone, but the brawl community is bad in that category for the most part. GIMRs and Pierces should be the norm. This is why I fully support GIMR's amazing contributions in video format. Why? Because this is what sparks others in the community to dive into the game and learn. This is how a community gets better and a metagame gets deeper. Not by being lead by top players, because top players are learning how to beat one another; not necessarily trying to cover every nook and cranny in the game engine.

 

[Player-1]

Good stuff, I already did this whenever I ever got GaW in the random select, but didn't know any of the specifics as in buffering dashes or which characters it covered. It always seemed like a good way to tech chase people because of the large hitbox/how much area it could cover with GaW's aerial speed combined with how fast it was, but I'm glad that more specific things were discovered about it

 

[Linkvader]

Pretty cool stuff, G&W has another option after Dthrow now. Nair is too good. Do you know the reason it doesn't work on some characters? Or is it just how they are for some reason?

 

[LanceStern]

Wait, I can tech roll either way GnW's dthrow pretty well...

This is a great video, but it's not impossible to tech roll either direction the GnW dthrow.

 

[Exdeath]

You can only DI a hit during the first frame of knockback. It CANNOT be buffered. While you can buffer a tech, it will be in the direction you were last inputting.

So actually landing on one side and techrolling in the opposite direction is RIDICULOUS, especially since a lot of characters are only in the air for one frame after being D-throwed.

An MK player I practice with occasionally does this and it sucks.

 

[GimR]

I wasn't really paying attention when testing this, but I did notice fox only has 1 frame before he hits the ground

 

[Ghostbone]

People pull off Samus' super wavedash in melee and that's a 1 frame window -shrug-

 

[Grim Tuesday]

lol at non-technical Brawl players

*links to Perfect Dark*

 

[Laem]

it's not hard to do, you just hold backwards and flick forwards as you tech

There's nothing more to it then this right?

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Don't think so. I do it all the time actually.

 

[GimR]

People pull off Samus' super wavedash in melee and that's a 1 frame window -shrug-

My point was that since he has only one frame while he's air borne, it should be impossible to DI one way and tech another way with him.

 

[Ghostbone]

Wait isn't DI registered the frame before you're sent into hitstun?
Or is it the frame you are put into hitstun?

Cause with the former it's possible, but with the latter you can't input left and right on the same frame so it would be impossible I guess.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Isai can input left and right on the same frame.

 

[MK26]

Theoretically if you held one way and mashed cstick in the other direction you could land on one side and tech in the other direction

the problem comes when not even you know which way you're gonna go...

 

[GimR]

Theoretically if you held one way and mashed cstick in the other direction you could land on one side and tech in the other direction

the problem comes when not even you know which way you're gonna go...

you can't smash DI a throw so that shouldn't work

 

[DeLux]

I know the answer, pick me pick me pick me

 

[MK26]

no, not smash di, mashing the cstick in that fashion means the game reads the control stick as being held one way for one frame and the other way for the next frame

so if the mashing was frame-perfect you could either di in the csticks direction and techroll the other way, or di in the control sticks direction and techroll the other way

at least, if the game doesnt put any different restrictions on the cstick during throws as it does during the rest of the game

 

[Ghostbone]

But if DI is read on the same frame it determines the direction you're teching the c-stick won't help with that.

 

[GimR]

Episode 9 - The Air Dodge Canceling Item Toss - 6/7/2011

 

[GimR]

bump

10chairs

 

[C.S. Dinah]

Oh my GW.....

 

[deepseadiva]

Gimr, you are brilliant.

 

[B.A.M.]

Lol i remember dao wondering if you could do the drop on command, that would be amazing for diddy during hitstun. thats amazing haha. that means aerial frame traps and ish dont work with chars when they have items

 

[John12346]

This is irrelevant to competitive play, but you can command drop Hammers and Golden Hammers in hitstun via the method explained by GIMR.

Basically, you can avoid getting gimped if someone knocks you off the stage while you're holding one.

 

[B.A.M.]

* looks at Competitive Brawl Discussion Forum*
*Checks in Metagame Minute thread*

*Sees above post*

You just like posting dont you?

 

[John12346]

I could think of a few people with a higher posting rate than myself around these parts...

But there are some aspects of the game where this information could come in handy. Some people like to play Money Matches with Items, plus there's also that side event, AllBrawl, which is held at larger tournies...

 

[Life]

I have a much higher post/day than Johnumbers.

Dat GnW... Sonic can use this too since downB is effectively a really slow bucket brake. No items tho.

 

[Laem]

oh boy that survival DI

 

[Player-1]

Lol i remember dao wondering if you could do the drop on command, that would be amazing for diddy during hitstun. thats amazing haha. that means aerial frame traps and ish dont work with chars when they have items

NinjaLink proposed you could and that you could get out of CGs with it but it had strict timing or something, but it's been pretty much debunked in my eyes. I think NL was just getting confused by the banana dropping randomly after getting hit (which happens sometimes).

 

[MK26]

*looks at last clip*

****ing g&w

 

[B.A.M.]

jebus was using this on me yesterday; madddd gay. diddy just says no follow ups for you. although cant you just grab the item with an aerial?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

jebus was using this on me yesterday; madddd gay. diddy just says no follow ups for you. although cant you just grab the item with an aerial?

You can also just instant throw it right back if you know it's coming.

...

I imagine this would help Wario a decent amount.

Wario can accomplish this with a tire; as a result, it advocates more/better tire play, which is is somewhat ignored as it is by a lot of players.

Because of Wario's ridiculous horizontal aerial mobility/acceleration, doing that and just holding toward the stage will benefit him a great deal more than most characters.

Also, his Bike is a momentum cancel, but the fact that he has no really quick aerials makes it a moot point. With this, it'll definitely become more useful.

 

[GimR]

You can also just instant throw it right back if you know it's coming.

...

I imagine this would help Wario a decent amount.

Wario can accomplish this with a tire; as a result, it advocates more/better tire play, which is is somewhat ignored as it is by a lot of players.

Because of Wario's ridiculous horizontal aerial mobility/acceleration, doing that and just holding toward the stage will benefit him a great deal more than most characters.

Also, his Bike is a momentum cancel, but the fact that he has no really quick aerials makes it a moot point. With this, it'll definitely become more useful.

I was able to survive a Diddy D-smash at 200% percent using this technique with Wario and his Bike. It seems that his bike stops all horizontal momentum once it gets to a certain point in the animation. can you confirm this?

 

[Player-1]

I guess it's too late now, but GIMR, I think you should have shown that you can air dodge cancel item toss bananas that aren't in your possession to begin with since this is really helpful if you're on the ledge and there's an item right next to it.

 

[GimR]

I guess it's too late now, but GIMR, I think you should have shown that you can air dodge cancel item toss bananas that aren't in your possession to begin with since this is really helpful if you're on the ledge and there's an item right next to it.

True, I forgot that this is just insta-throwing except you already have the item in your possesion. Derp

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I was able to survive a Diddy D-smash at 200% percent using this technique with Wario and his Bike. It seems that his bike stops all horizontal momentum once it gets to a certain point in the animation. can you confirm this?

That is true, yes.

 

[Clai]

Considering that Peach is holding turnips more often than not, does this mean she can actually use her airdodge now? This seems like this can really help her defensive game.

Is using this technique the quickest way to momentum cancel now, as airdodging comes out faster than aerials? Would you be able to bucket brake with this faster than DK can do his momentum canceling with Bair? It'd be near to see how far you can take this survival DI.