Meta Knight's Revenge: The Official Match-Up Thread *Wario* -> GO

[Kamikaze*]

I was under the tag "Smashin Dude".

It was back in the day lol.

Oh I've seen that name before. What's scary is that you remember so much about that match.

 

[DMG]

I remember most of my sets with people, even friendlies when the game came out.

 

[Kamikaze*]

I remember most of my sets with people, even friendlies when the game came out.

Dude, I'd kill to have a memory like yours.

 

[Jupz]

I remember most of my tourney sets, but can't remember many of my matches with my friends.

 

[Staco]

When shield grabbing his Dair make sure you wait for the 2nd hit. When G&W is above me I like to jump in the air and pretend I'm going to Uair then quickly fast fall and buffer an Utilt. I'm not sure if MK's Uair can beat the key, but even if it can it's not reliable because the timing is so strict. Utilt works well though.

Falling MK UAirs beat GaW DAir.

If GaW gets hit by a DSmash/Dair and uses bad DI try to gimp him while he is coming back to the stage (before he is in a good range for Up B). You got a lot of time to go offstage, if he uses Bucket Cancel before.
If he uses Up B earlier in this situation punish him for it with your Up B.

Does any of MKs moves beat GaWs Up B?

 

[Luigi player]

Falling MK UAirs beat GaW DAir.

If GaW gets hit by a DSmash/Dair and uses bad DI try to gimp him while he is coming back to the stage (before he is in a good range for Up B). You got a lot of time to go offstage, if he uses Bucket Cancel before.
If he uses Up B earlier in this situation punish him for it with your Up B.

Does any of MKs moves beat GaWs Up B?

GaWs upB has invincibility frames, so no.

 

[OverLade]

Falling MK UAirs beat GaW DAir.

I dont think this works. At best they might trade hits, and Dair does more damage and has more knockback, not to mention he comes down so fast that timing the Uair would be too risky. When GaW is above you its best to just stay on the ground follow him. If he's forced to Dair then punish with Utilt or shieldgrab.

 

[Affinity]

I dont think this works.

No, it works. You have to space your U-air very well.

U-tilting the key is a lot easier though, and a lot safer.

 

[noodles]

if your already in the air its easier to fair. ill try to find a video that shows it

 

[slikvik]

I dont think this works. At best they might trade hits, and Dair does more damage and has more knockback, not to mention he comes down so fast that timing the Uair would be too risky. When GaW is above you its best to just stay on the ground follow him. If he's forced to Dair then punish with Utilt or shieldgrab.

Nah...

10transcendedpriorityaerialsaretoogood

 

[OverLade]

No, it works. You have to space your U-air very well.

U-tilting the key is a lot easier though, and a lot safer.

I can't lie I'm surprised GaW's Dair usually ***** everything.

I think I'd still rather be safe with the Utilt though.

 

[Max Ketchum]

Lots of upward moves beat GW's dair. Marth/DDD/TL/MK/Olimar/probably Link can all break it with their uairs. MK and Marth beat it with utilt. Lots of characters can move to the side of the key and poke GW's feet.

 

[nevershootme]

options to counter g&w d-air

-up-b and not into the key (ground or air), like spaced back many pixels
-have a full shield ready and block it (it's 2 hits btw, one in air and other when he hands) and grab
-step back a bit (know the range of his ground hitbox) and d-smash or f-smash
-run away and laugh at his stupid scrub g&w who always d-air -> d-smash all the **** time

 

[OverLade]

Lots of upward moves beat GW's dair. Marth/DDD/TL/MK/Olimar/probably Link can all break it with their uairs. MK and Marth beat it with utilt. Lots of characters can move to the side of the key and poke GW's feet.

I was being metaphorical....

Anyway are there any recent videos on this matchup at the highest level? (leepuff vs. DSF or Tyrant)

 

[DMG]

Well I would have suggested DSF vs UTD Zac but DSF actually went Snake vs Zac.

Also yes Uair can beat out the key. It has nothing to do with it's transcended priority, it just outranges it. Wario's Uair can also beat it (usually trades but spaced right it beats it).

 

[OverLade]

Yeah I heard Zac planked DSF, and I was a little surprised, as you can't really plank against MK.

Any Zac vs. Dojo vids (too lazy to check).

 

[Dojo]

We have a set from FS6 recorded. I'm too lazy to link it.

 

[DMG]

Well some from Final Smash, but I don't wanna go looking for them on youtube right now lol.

EDIT: HOLY CRAP DOJO WHERE DID YOU COME FROM lol.

 

[Dojo]

I am everywhere.

 

[Sushi3]

Never go FD against ICs right? What if someone secondaries ics? For example, assume someone mains wario, wins a game, and the opponent cps FD. The player switches to ics, and the opponent is now screwed.

The player was Fiction at Evo btw.

 

[DMG]

Well tough luck in that situation. Fiction does surprise a lot of people with his CP characters since he's well known for Wario but not for IC's, MK, or Marth (he might have some more secondaries I don't know about).

In that kind of situation, either weigh the odds that they will go Diddy/IC's/some other fairly good character on FD, or ban FD if you are uncertain of your opponent. As MK, if you see a Wario player CP to FD, you possibly could have a slight suspicion that something is up, since normally Wario does worse against MK on FD than a stage like Smashville, Battlefield, or the other usual neutrals. In that case, if you have a good secondary for FD, then go ahead and whip it out if you are fairly certain your opponent doesn't have a strong CP character against you (like if you go IC's and they just pick Snake or if you pick Diddy and they go to Marth or Wario).

 

[OverLade]

I always ban FD.

If I win on the first neutral, I'm going to beat you anyway, so go Halberd/PS1, but its better to not risk losing first match so you'll have an absurd CPing advantage.

 

[ksizl4life]

Never go FD against ICs right? What if someone secondaries ics? For example, assume someone mains wario, wins a game, and the opponent cps FD. The player switches to ics, and the opponent is now screwed.

The player was Fiction at Evo btw.

i really dont understand why u brought up iceys in a mk vs gnw discussion lol

 

[Staco]

I am everywhere.

lmao

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_qcgRUhW0M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEEV9bG_XB0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZM78vGq9rU

Set doesnt make this MU look 60:40

 

[ssbbFICTION]

Obviously because my climbers **** . For no reason I'll tell DMG that my DDD, Falco, and (getting there) Diddy Kong are tourney ready XD

 

[ksizl4life]

I always ban FD.

If I win on the first neutral, I'm going to beat you anyway, so go Halberd/PS1, but its better to not risk losing first match so you'll have an absurd CPing advantage.

lol has this always been the case?

 

[DanGR]

Zac didn't use dtilt at all. Is there a reason? It's one of the moves I tend to worry about.

 

[cutter]

MK's Ftilt and Dtilt outspeed and outrange G&W's Dtilt.

 

[Max Ketchum]

Pretty sure they don't outrange it. I think the best case scenario is that they trade, which is bad for MK.

 

[DanGR]

There were still some opportunities for Zac to use it though, that didn't risk getting hit with ftilts or dtilts. Sometimes Dojo would mis-space an aerial, and land right in front of Zac. Instead of dtilting he continued to shield or miss a grab. I'm not saying there were several places he could have used it, but it's got good enough range and speed to punish a couple otherwise unpunishable things that Dojo did.

edit: I was fairly certain that if both MK's and G&W's dtilt hitboxes came out the same time at max range, they'd trade hits. Meta moves his body forward while he does it, and I think G&W's dtilt has a small airbox on front of it.

I know Meta's ftilt does outrange it though.

 

[DMG]

Not only that, but if MK shields Dtilt, he can fairly easily punish it where as G&W struggles to punish MK OOS on his tilts.

 

[ksizl4life]

hey affinity sorry im talking about another matchup here but a while ago ALOT of people here needed help with the olimar matchup

now saturday that just passed i got 3rd at game table losing to atomsk and fatal. i faced dabuz in losers bracket for the 2nd time ever and i won again. the videos are uploaded for this game table and the last one where i beat him

i want to show you guys. this is the correct way to fight olimar

round 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvBRXaIep7g&feature=channel
round 3:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vePzSclhEs

round 2 was not recorded and i lost that one. i tried something really risky on halberd and got punished badly for it.

now this set is from the june game table.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX80GJqhVew

i went iceys 2nd round for the lolz ok lmaooo but focus on round 1 n 3

again, i apologize for getting off track affinity. ill write a gnw guide now

 

[Plairnkk]

So the secret to beating olimar is to throw them and hope they're too stupid to air dodge+punish ur up+b? That never seemed to work for me.... hrm.

Crazy he never airdodges those up+b's but airdodges every single time hes falling from a dthrow or...basically anything else in the air.

 

[Omni]

You have to think about it from Olimar's shoes.

If he air-dodges, he'll most likely eat a juicy n-air. After eating one or two, he'll stop air-dodging which is the perfect set-up for an up+b. In order to gimp Olimar, you have to make him fear air-dodging and punish him hard each time he does.

It isn't that cut and dry, but that is the jist of it.

 

[ksizl4life]

the thing is that he never mixed stuff up as you noticed so i never changed my strategy and when he recovered hed always tdo the same thing : jump. so id predict when hed always jump and id get a free up b gimp. he says he might just go sheik on me now though lol

 

[TKD]

Olimar can pivot his over special to aid his aerial movement. He can also power-shield MT like any other character. The lesson is don't be afraid to perform Mach Tornado, and Olimar's weakness is being off the ground, though I'm not very convinced that it's that bad.

Dabuz being the best Olimar player (edit: from the US) means brawl players in general gotta step it up a notch =)

 

[OverLade]

lol has this always been the case?

I was just referring to MK having the CPing advantage

Even though I never lose to anyone ever. ;D

*goes to watch Olimar videos*

 

[TKD]

MK vs G&W is likely even. Those example vids from Staco don't reflect two good players that know the match-up completely...and isn't G&W bad in FD? I think I'd actually counter-pick FD vs that character.

 

[Dojo]

Lol you silly.

Zac is arguably the best G&W in the nation. At Apex and Genesis there was a collection of top G&W's from all over the country, including LeePuff, Valdens, OBM, Slikvik, and more, which Zac outplaced during both tournaments by far. He got 17th at Apex and top 10 at Genesis for highest G&W in both tourneys and is one of the most knowledgeable players about his character and this game in general.

I am arguably top 5 in the nation. 'Nuff said.

Do some homework next time before you say something silly.

 

[Max Ketchum]

Olimar can pivot his over special to aid his aerial movement. He can also power-shield MT like any other character. The lesson is don't be afraid to perform Mach Tornado, and Olimar's weakness is being off the ground, though I'm not very convinced that it's that bad.

Dabuz being the best Olimar player (edit: from the US) means brawl players in general gotta step it up a notch =)

Dabuz is not the best Olimar in the country by any means...