I think it's 60:40, Bowser doesn't have reliable ways to get grabs on MK, I think IC's have an easier time forcing him into situations where he could get grabbed than him and they have an infinite on that so there's no way I'd give them the same ratio
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Meta Knight's Revenge: The Official Match-Up Thread *Wario* -> GO
- Thread starter OverLade
- Start date
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ksizl4life
Smash Hero
The current matchup is pikachu guys. lets not get off track.
I think Metaknight/Pikachu is about 55-45. The only real experience I have in the matchup is playing Esam on Wifi (we had a passable connection, not that wifi should ever be used to determine matchups). I'll lay down a few tips.
When dair camping, keep in mind that Pikachu runs quickly and can easily get under you and punish an airdodge to the ground/jump up and attack you. I recommend fastfalling a fair as you land if he's pressuring you this way. If Pikachu is camping you can generally just chase him and you'll be able to get inside. Pikachu falls pretty fast, but his landing has enough lag to punish easily. You outrange pikachu on the ground, but he runs fast enough to punish Dsmash/Ftilt when badly done.
My favorite move in this matchup is Foward smash. You can use it defensively when you feel pressured on the ground, and can also approach with it. A lot of pikachu players will sidestep hoping they can dodge and punish a Dsmash, but the lag on startup will last and the Fsmash will eat the vulnerable frames on the dodge. If they sidestep the Fsmash right you can then Dtilt/Dsmash/Shuttle loop.
When dair camping, keep in mind that Pikachu runs quickly and can easily get under you and punish an airdodge to the ground/jump up and attack you. I recommend fastfalling a fair as you land if he's pressuring you this way. If Pikachu is camping you can generally just chase him and you'll be able to get inside. Pikachu falls pretty fast, but his landing has enough lag to punish easily. You outrange pikachu on the ground, but he runs fast enough to punish Dsmash/Ftilt when badly done.
My favorite move in this matchup is Foward smash. You can use it defensively when you feel pressured on the ground, and can also approach with it. A lot of pikachu players will sidestep hoping they can dodge and punish a Dsmash, but the lag on startup will last and the Fsmash will eat the vulnerable frames on the dodge. If they sidestep the Fsmash right you can then Dtilt/Dsmash/Shuttle loop.
BIGM1994
Smash Champion
lololol, mk ic is 50/50.
I'd agree with that, but Pikachu can mitigate that problem relatively well. Killing isn't easy, but he has pretty good setups. Utilt/Dsmash/Uthrow, then he can chase with QAC (read airdodges) and kill with either Neutral Air or Thunder. Pikachu has to change his style accordingly, as he can't approach Metaknight if Metaknight doesn't feel like approaching. I think its just a hella specific matchup, where both can damage either other pretty evenly, but Pikachu has more trouble killing (though I'd say he can kill more easily than Falco even).
ksizl4life
Smash Hero
For some sort of way to see how pika plays at a high level ill post apexs anti vs anther here. i only found 2 matches one were anti wins which was round 3 and 2nd round where anther wins
round 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFHUmVwCg9c
round 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MOLtluin7I&feature=related
bear with the quality lol
round 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFHUmVwCg9c
round 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MOLtluin7I&feature=related
bear with the quality lol
Crizthakidd
Smash Champion
i was just about to link those matches sizzle LOL
anti random dsmash round 3 won it for him
anti random dsmash round 3 won it for him
HammerBro123
Smash Cadet
these are good but the bowser is 45 55 booser
wow i did it on the first try
Affinity
Smash Hero
Thanks a lot Ksizl! I really appreciate you taking care of this thread for me while I've been gone.
EDIT:
What match-up do you guys want to discuss next?
Pikachu discussion ends this Sunday.
EDIT:
What match-up do you guys want to discuss next?
Pikachu discussion ends this Sunday.
ksizl4life
Smash Hero
no prob. it was fun. lol
maybe we should discuss gnw. there should be no reason why some mk's lose to him unless the other guy is just smarter and the better player but
People think gnw vs mk is close when it really isnt so alot need help in that match
maybe we should discuss gnw. there should be no reason why some mk's lose to him unless the other guy is just smarter and the better player but
People think gnw vs mk is close when it really isnt so alot need help in that match
clowsui
Smash Legend
let's do falco! :D
They just did Falco like 3 weeks ago.
Affinity
Smash Hero
Looks like Game & Watch has the most votes, but I'll wait until tomorrow to see if that changes.
cutter
Smash Champion
I agree with doing G&W next. I have gotten a lot of mixed opinions on the matchup from a lot of different people.
Crizthakidd
Smash Champion
mk vs gnw is so much in mks favor when u shut down everything he has. like its the only match where random stuff will win it for u.
just shield all his slow predictable smashes. upsmash kills at 78 sometimes O_O
just shield all his slow predictable smashes. upsmash kills at 78 sometimes O_O
ksizl4life
Smash Hero
I shall begin preparing a shut down gnw guide.
I'd say people overestimate how hard fighting a good GaW player can be.
People say "spam Shuttle loop and space Ftilt" but a smart GaW can start baiting shuttle loop, and if you miss, you're either going to die, or get Usmashed because of his Uair which pushes you up and gives him time to whip up something cruel and unusual to punish you with.
Both players have to play very defensive in this matchup, and if either player chooses to play aggro they get *****. It's bad to have GaW underneath you on a platformed stage, as his Neutral Air ***** anyone landing on platforms, and his Uair can keep you up there until you run out of jumps. Its best to DI off stage and recover toward the ledge, but watch for a Fair in this position as you're likely to die if you get chased off stage this far and hit.
Just be patient, as you slightly outrange GaW and he's going to have to work harder for a kill than you will. Be patient and don't use Dsmash to kill before 90%, mainly because even if they DI badly, bucket braking will still save them, and make future kills more frustrating. Shuttle loop is unlikely to kill, as you'll be using it a lot defensively. Try and get a Fsmash in if possible.
Utilt beats Key, though I'd prefer to just Powershield and Neutral Air or shieldgrab. Utilt will kill GaW at 110% ish though, so keep that in mind.
Band Final D. You can fight equally gay as GaW on Brinstar or Cruise, but if you get Uaired on Final D you're gonna feel some pain (Slikvik 9d Me after I got Uaired in a Money match, luckily I have African DI and was at 0%).
People say "spam Shuttle loop and space Ftilt" but a smart GaW can start baiting shuttle loop, and if you miss, you're either going to die, or get Usmashed because of his Uair which pushes you up and gives him time to whip up something cruel and unusual to punish you with.
Both players have to play very defensive in this matchup, and if either player chooses to play aggro they get *****. It's bad to have GaW underneath you on a platformed stage, as his Neutral Air ***** anyone landing on platforms, and his Uair can keep you up there until you run out of jumps. Its best to DI off stage and recover toward the ledge, but watch for a Fair in this position as you're likely to die if you get chased off stage this far and hit.
Just be patient, as you slightly outrange GaW and he's going to have to work harder for a kill than you will. Be patient and don't use Dsmash to kill before 90%, mainly because even if they DI badly, bucket braking will still save them, and make future kills more frustrating. Shuttle loop is unlikely to kill, as you'll be using it a lot defensively. Try and get a Fsmash in if possible.
Utilt beats Key, though I'd prefer to just Powershield and Neutral Air or shieldgrab. Utilt will kill GaW at 110% ish though, so keep that in mind.
Band Final D. You can fight equally gay as GaW on Brinstar or Cruise, but if you get Uaired on Final D you're gonna feel some pain (Slikvik 9d Me after I got Uaired in a Money match, luckily I have African DI and was at 0%).
Affinity
Smash Hero
It looks like the Pikachu discussion is over lol
Discussion will end on Sunday August 2nd
NEXT MATCH-UP
Week 12 - Mr. Game & Watch
Week 12 - Mr. Game & Watch
Discussion will end on Sunday August 2nd
slikvik
Smash Master
Key to beating G&W. Use your tornado as often as possible XD
Dojo
Smash Champion
slikvik
Smash Master
Cuz it was a joke. Redhalberd started off the match with a tornado. I can't remember but I either upb'd or uaired it then nined him at zero. I don't think I saw another tornado from him
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
Slik and RedHalberd, when did you guys get to play each other? o_O
Hype
Smash Lord
Getting juggled sucks. In my experiance going for the edge is a bad idea, G&W's can and will follow you way off screen, it doesn't matter how far off screen you go, he can still Fair you. I usually just try to get back to the ground by not jumping when they Uair me and being ready to air dodge there up B.
If you get hit by the turtle SDI up > Dair
When shield grabbing his Dair make sure you wait for the 2nd hit. When G&W is above me I like to jump in the air and pretend I'm going to Uair then quickly fast fall and buffer an Utilt. I'm not sure if MK's Uair can beat the key, but even if it can it's not reliable because the timing is so strict. Utilt works well though.
Walking away can be a great option in this match up, I don't know why It just works really well. But don't do it too much you don't want to give up stage control for free.
His aerials (Bair, Dair and maybe more) have weird properties, they have landing lag but there's still a hitbox after they land. So there's odd timing when you shield and punish.
Tornado is risky because they can Up B OoS and you will fly into the air and get smashed upon landing. He also has many moves that flat out beat the tornado so it's not good at all in this match up.
Learn to tech his Dthrow. If you get Dthrowed at the very edge of the stage you can DI away from the stage and instead of being in a tech chase situation you will recieve a weak spike which you can meteor cancel up until ~200%. If your at a super high percent you can DI down and tech his Dsmash (sour spot) if you're really pro.
Watch out for the 9 if you're winning by a large margin. The 9 has almost cost me a tourney set on 2 occasions.
If you get hit by the turtle SDI up > Dair
When shield grabbing his Dair make sure you wait for the 2nd hit. When G&W is above me I like to jump in the air and pretend I'm going to Uair then quickly fast fall and buffer an Utilt. I'm not sure if MK's Uair can beat the key, but even if it can it's not reliable because the timing is so strict. Utilt works well though.
Walking away can be a great option in this match up, I don't know why It just works really well. But don't do it too much you don't want to give up stage control for free.
His aerials (Bair, Dair and maybe more) have weird properties, they have landing lag but there's still a hitbox after they land. So there's odd timing when you shield and punish.
Tornado is risky because they can Up B OoS and you will fly into the air and get smashed upon landing. He also has many moves that flat out beat the tornado so it's not good at all in this match up.
Learn to tech his Dthrow. If you get Dthrowed at the very edge of the stage you can DI away from the stage and instead of being in a tech chase situation you will recieve a weak spike which you can meteor cancel up until ~200%. If your at a super high percent you can DI down and tech his Dsmash (sour spot) if you're really pro.
Watch out for the 9 if you're winning by a large margin. The 9 has almost cost me a tourney set on 2 occasions.
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
How to tech dthrow:
1. Turn volume up
2. Listen to his dthrow. It beeps five times.
3. Press L/R on the fifth beep.
1. Turn volume up
2. Listen to his dthrow. It beeps five times.
3. Press L/R on the fifth beep.
instead if trying to hit his dair from under him, be below and either to his right or left (depending where he is) react to the dair and fair him. worse case scenario he DI's away as he dairs and theres no % on both sides dealt. if your already grounded im sure theres better options >_>
Hahaha yeah that match was so clutch at the end. I didnt know anything about CPs, because I went FD lol.
Back in December when I was in Virginia at one of Chu's biweeklys.
Hopefully I can go again this fall.
smasher01
Smash Ace
thats like almost everything you need to know for the match up dont get predictable
with your stuff and up-b. when your in the air and g@w is under you get to the ground fast or your in for major damage from their nair and upair.
G@W is really straight forward match up o and one really important thing
HAVE PATIENCE AND WATCH AND REACT TO THE THINGS G@W DOES
best advice ever
dont try to fight off stage when recovering his fair will beat your glide attack lol
learned that in a $mm vs valdens it was 1-2. on our final match it was really close
next hit wins and i try to glide attack his fair and his fair beats it and i die lol
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