Meta Knight's Revenge: The Official Match-Up Thread *Wario* -> GO

[MalcolmM]

U cant just type...i've played a good sonic and expect me to believe u. i said its 55:45 MK and I WILL LIST THE MKS ive played that i know are well known.

m2k
inui
plank
shadow
teh_spammerer

and after playing those ppl they didnt change my opinion on the matchup at all.

 

[Chis]

I've watched enough videos , I've also read enough and played enough good people, thx.
You should follow the other english guys and come to the german tournament in april so we can have a few matches.

You can't learn everything from watching videos so a few matches would clear things up.
hope to play you sometime.

oh and i'm sure you know sonic better than me but those things come from other sonic players aswell and I'm also sure i have more smash experience than you so no need to tell me things about punishment with speed and grabs lol.

Edit: Also don't get cocky. join date or post counter or something lol, there are actually people who know ther stuff without posting much on smashboards.

Yeah, because I mentioned my join date, post as factor for intelligence in my post right?

oh and i'm sure you know sonic better than me but those things come from other sonic players aswell and I'm also sure i have more smash experience than you so no need to tell me things about punishment with speed and grabs lol.

Hypocrite. You don't even know me.

 

[MalcolmM]

when did watching videos become a valuable asset in matchup discussions? if u havent played the matchup against good ppl then u should have no say in the matchup discussion.

so with that being said im saying 55:45 MK.

 

[Tero.]

Yeah, because I mentioned my join date, post as factor for intelligence in my post right?



Hypocrite. You don't even know me.

Why so agressive?

And yeah i don't know you, you did anything important for what i should know you, like won any major tournaments?

Probably you should just chill down a bit, i didn't want to offend you or something.

 

[Browny]

why do you (everyone) keep on ignoring MalcolmM's comments lol?

 

[JayBee]

i want to hear the Mks that Malcolm has faced talk about their opinions after facing his sonic to get a good foundation on this matchup. i've heard some wierd info from a few people so far, but malcolm's comments aren't even getting responded to. u serious?

@.tero: dont take this personally, but when i heard your explanation, i knew that your experience wasn't against good sonics at the very least. sry dude.

m2k, inui, and the rest: c'mon, step it up...

 

[Tero.]

@.tero: dont take this personally, but when i heard your explanation, i knew that your experience wasn't against good sonics at the very least. sry dude.

Haha no problem, i havent played really good sonics, because there are like 0 in germany.
Most of the stuff i wrote was things i collected at the sonic boards/mu discussion about mk, so yeah it's fine =)
I didn't actually wrote much about the MU, just mentioned some facts

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

so can someone add some more D3 and wario info please??

 

[da K.I.D.]

i agreed with everything in tero's first statement, he was just being general to give people an idea of the situation

I think chis attacked him a little too harshly. sorry bout that

Me and malcom agree on a lot, but MK is the one thing where we have the biggest difference of opinion.

he says 55-45 i say 65-35 or possibly more in MKs favor.

not trying to slight malcom here, but out of all the great MKs you play, do you beat them as much as you say the matchup is? (45%)

MK should be trying to stay in the air, its almost even on the ground, but i feel that sonic really gets it up the butt in mid air.

 

[MalcolmM]

i either win the set slightly...or (with the exception of m2k) i lose the set slightly. the matches are always close always last stock last hit win or lose. the matchup is very close to call.

 

[TKD]

A match slightly in someone's favor is 6 to 4.
55/45 MK on Sonic?

Many match-ups amongst great characters in Brawl have a decent enough chance of winning for either character. I get that you think the match isn't so harsh on Sonic, but if you admit it's harder for him, it's easier to just call it 60/40 MK.

The match-up odds should be declared on a 10 unit scale of 10 IMO, because 20 units make people give out these so specific numbers.

 

[Deoxys]

A match slightly in someone's favor is 6 to 4.
55/45 MK on Sonic?

Many match-ups amongst great characters in Brawl have a decent enough chance of winning for either character. I get that you think the match isn't so harsh on Sonic, but if you admit it's harder for him, it's easier to just call it 60/40 MK.

The match-up odds should be declared on a 10 unit scale of 10 IMO, because 20 units make people give out these so specific numbers.

Good point, but then how do I express that Yoshi is tougher than Sonic, for example? If we use a scale of ten, mustn't we label the Falcon matchup 100/0?

In my area? That'd be Karmacide; he's placed well at every OoS tourney he's been to and took 2nd in the big Brawl tournament hosted by Darkrain a few months ago. I've also played good OoS Snakes, including Ultimate Razer and T-Rex.

I've come to the conclusion that the match-up can become even under certain conditions, but outside of those conditions its still slightly in MK's favor.

My class is about to start, so I can't explain right now; I'll have my explanation up by the end of the day.

Oh yeah, I forgot about your partner. IDK who Ultimate Razer and T-Rex are, but it's good to know you have lots of good Snake experience.

Regarding the second part, LIAR!

If only we could all watch Ally vs M2K as a reference.

i either win the set slightly...or (with the exception of m2k) i lose the set slightly. the matches are always close always last stock last hit win or lose. the matchup is very close to call.

Is this with Luigi's Mansion not allowed? You ban Rainbow Cruise and they take you to Delfino? What do they ban and where do you take them?

 

[Tero.]

i agreed with everything in tero's first statement, he was just being general to give people an idea of the situation

I think chis attacked him a little too harshly. sorry bout that

Me and malcom agree on a lot, but MK is the one thing where we have the biggest difference of opinion.

he says 55-45 i say 65-35 or possibly more in MKs favor.

not trying to slight malcom here, but out of all the great MKs you play, do you beat them as much as you say the matchup is? (45%)

MK should be trying to stay in the air, its almost even on the ground, but i feel that sonic really gets it up the butt in mid air.

Thank you.

[...]he was just being general to give people an idea of the situation[...]

Yeah that was my intention =)

About the difficulty of the Match-Up: As I said I haven't played many good Sonic's and 0 really good Sonic's so I can't say that much. I'm sure MalcolmM has more experience in this Match-Up, so I rely on his statement, but I would say let's all agree on 60:40?

Oh yeah, I forgot about your partner. IDK who Ultimate Razer and T-Rex are, but it's good to know you have lots of good Snake experience.

Ultimate Razer is a ****ing good Snake player who uses Wii Mote and Nunchuck (<- no joke), you should have a look at this topic: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=216874 you can find some videos of him there.

 

[Chis]

I think chis attacked him a little too harshly. sorry bout that

No. I quoted him, correcting somethings, and then he responds with this.

srsly are you kidding me?
you contradict with the stuff i said just to speak about something completly different? ("Sonics tilts are ok" "no, sonic is all about bait & punish" <-- lolwut)

I've read quite a lot in the sonic boards and most stuff i wrote overlaps with everything i read there.

Thank you.

He patronizes me as if I don't know what I'm talking about.

I'm sorry for nothing.

Ground Game:
Sonic has great punish abilties but sub-par approachs. His speed and grab game allows him to punish you effectively given the chance. Metaknights Dair and down tilt hinders some of his abpporaches. The more aggresive you are, the more you could get puinished. So a campy defenive might be a good idea?

Air Game:
Your Fair and Bair beat him in the air. However his Uair is more disjoint then your Dair. Sonic is not easily juggled with his spring and dair.

Edgeguard:
Once Sonic loses his spring he's vunable. You can also grab release him after the spring so he falls to his doom

Specials: Later

General stuff: Later

Not finished.

 

[MalcolmM]

We are talking about legitimate tournaments here....

Luigis hasnt been allowed in anything except online since like august in MD/VA NJ and NY.

I dont ban rainbows...I dont usually ban anything.

They ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ban FD.

I always CP a neutral...usually battlefield or yoshis.

They always CP a neutral usually smashville or battlefield
(With the exception of m2k who took me to delfino....which i will now ban because he played that stage so well.)

Only time ive banned rainbow cruise agianst meta is against dmbrandon and thats because he loves that stage...not really because of metaknight. he could have been playing ganon and i would have banned rainbow cruise. Also...i was wario against DM thats why i didnt list him.

 

[Affinity]

Sheik, Ice Climbers, and Samus sections added by request; waiting for input.

Don't feel rushed with all the new sections; take as much time as you need to finish up the Sonic discussion.

 

[oOJaseOo]

when do u think u guys are gonna be on mario cause that cape is scary....

 

[BIGM1994]

nice matchup chart

 

[Shadow 111]

i haven't played malcolm's sonic in tournament since he got really amazing lol.. but we did play a lot of friendlies 2 weeks ago. he was playing the matchup completely on point and if i made a slight mistake he would instantly start destroying me lol. he really knows the matchup well and i think he may have won the majority of the friendlies. (not that that the outcome of those matches should count much cuz none of you know of what skill level i'm on) but he changed my opinion on the matchup completely... at first i was like.. ok... malcolm is playing sonic.. and i am meta kniht... i went in with that attitude and started getting ***** lol.. i had to really think about all of sonic's options.. which, it seems to me, are not so limited in the matchup. so, yea, his sonic is great and i think, if played on that level, sonic could be 55:45 with mk.

also... where is luigis still allowed?!?!?! lol i don't see how the stage could possibly be legal... but it's still fun :D

 

[phi1ny3]

I look at this, and I have to say, this is pretty good, but some of this stuff in kind of old. especially the lucario/bowser stuff.

 

[MalcolmM]

i haven't played malcolm's sonic in tournament since he got really amazing lol.. but we did play a lot of friendlies 2 weeks ago. he was playing the matchup completely on point and if i made a slight mistake he would instantly start destroying me lol. he really knows the matchup well and i think he may have won the majority of the friendlies. (not that that the outcome of those matches should count much cuz none of you know of what skill level i'm on) but he changed my opinion on the matchup completely... at first i was like.. ok... malcolm is playing sonic.. and i am meta kniht... i went in with that attitude and started getting ***** lol.. i had to really think about all of sonic's options.. which, it seems to me, are not so limited in the matchup. so, yea, his sonic is great and i think, if played on that level, sonic could be 55:45 with mk.

also... where is luigis still allowed?!?!?! lol i don't see how the stage could possibly be legal... but it's still fun :D

thanks shadow. i hate to name drop but when it comes to a metaknight matchup no1 is gonna believe me unless i name the ppl i play against =(

 

[bludhoundz]

Can MK Ftilt Sonic out of side b / down b?

 

[MalcolmM]

Yes he can. can sonic play smart and not try to roll around MK the whole match? Yes he can as well.

 

[bludhoundz]

Hey, I was just curious.

I don't think it's a match breaking factor or anything.

 

[MalcolmM]

Whoops! my bad man...didnt mean to go @ u like that. just mad defensive. u never kno when someone is gonna pull the "we can just tilt u out of ur spindashes lololol 70-30 MK" card on u so u gotta b prepared lol.

 

[GodotAA]

you people fail. who are the sonics you are playing against... i would like to know

 

[smash brawl player 99021]

I love that pic of G&W

 

[CaliburChamp]

I need some tips for fighting against a Luigi. He has alot of broken moves. Jab+Up+B, combo breaker N-air, insanely powerful F-smash, and unpunishable down+b.

At the Luigi boards they say MK is Luigi's worst matchup, I don't know how that could be possible. The one thing I do know about the matchup is that Luigi's fireballs are almost useless since MK can outprioritize them with tornado.

 

[Affinity]

I need some tips for fighting against a Luigi. He has alot of broken moves. Jab+Up+B, combo breaker N-air, insanely powerful F-smash, and unpunishable down+b.

At the Luigi boards they say MK is Luigi's worst matchup, I don't know how that could be possible. The one thing I do know about the matchup is that Luigi's fireballs are almost useless since MK can outprioritize them with tornado.

Luigi doesn't have a single move that beats tornado; he's forced to try and attack from above (which is difficult) or just block it/try to run away. You can also space him really well.

Luigi section is up, but I'd really like to get into discussion on Sheik. Luigi will be discussed after Sheik, Ice Climbers, and Samus.



Shiek discussion starts...


NOW!!!

 

[CaliburChamp]

Luigi doesn't have a single move that beats tornado; he's forced to try and attack from above (which is difficult) or just block it/try to run away. You can also space him really well.

Luigi section is up, but I'd really like to get into discussion on Sheik. Luigi will be discussed after Sheik, Ice Climbers, and Samus.



Shiek discussion starts...


NOW!!!

Tornado more, is what I will do. lol.

I haven't fought many Sheiks with MK. They usually fight MK with Zelda, since I think Zelda does better at that match up than Shiek does, according to their match up guide.

 

[fromundaman]

Calibur, her needles beat Tornado, but if I'm correct, I think that's all she has to break it (Maybe her chain too, or her Bair if she comes in from a certain angle?).



Oh, and one quick note on the MK vs Kirby matchup (I know it's been done for a while, but I found something else for you guys to watch out for, so I thought I'd mention it.): Kirby Ftilt apparently beats the first two hits of your Ftilt (haven't tested it against the third, but I doublt it would win then.).

 

[OverLade]

The best Shiek in FL lives about 15 minutes away from me. I've also played Neo's shiek so I know the matchup very well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i7F4Rj9CCQ

Shiek can kill MK at 80% with a Grab release fully charged tipper Usmash. Tilt lock can get about 40% on you. If you don't know the matchup well then you will probably get killed first. Sheiks up B has invincibility frames so you cant gimp her when she uses it. Still, you outrange shiek on the ground in general. The only annoying things are her tilt lock, fast dash grab and dash attack, fast falling speed, and sliding usmash.

Avoid getting grabbed about 80% of you're dead, otherwise, just space and you'll be fine.

I think it's about 60/40 MKs favor, mabye better.

 

[Browny]

So has anything malcolm said been noted in the matchup v sonic? in the OP you have only written (and considered by the looks of things) what kid said.

 

[Keen]

Any advice on what stages to pick against Olimar?

I'd guess RC and Delfino?

 

[Affinity]

Any advice on what stages to pick against Olimar?

I'd guess RC and Delfino?

Port Town Aero Drive, if its legal.

RC and Frigate Orpheon are also god choices.

 

[MalcolmM]

why would they listen to malcolm, dj? hes only good @ the game and in the region with the best players...what experience could he possibly have?

 

[Babar-Thorbald]

Yup, I don't see any kind of reason for them listening him.

 

[MK26]

Kirby: MK counter?

(45-55 vs. MK = counter yes?)

MKs, we Kirbies are discussing you over on our matchup thread

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=195032

The focus is on stage counterpicks/bans and MK's favourite moves

Thanks in advance.

 

[Affinity]

45:55 is not a counter. A match-up has to be at least advantageous to be a counter.


but yes, Kirby has a good match-up against MK compared to most of MK's other match-ups.

 

[I LAG]

hmm this was helpfull