Killanator90
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
- Messages
- 305
Are all the yoshi main having there name in the special font as there sigs? Like polts and firefly.
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Meta Knight's New Match Up Thread: Yoshi
- Thread starter BlueZebra
- Start date
Player-4
See you in 25 years
"Set in stone"
Exactly why I don't like numbers, the whole "advantage/slight advantage" term is a loose one, which is why I like it. It's not some "60-40" number bull**** that's so official, MU's grow and get better or worse, strapping a number to it doesn't really give it that room to move, it makes it seem like it's always "60-40".
But that's all pointless anyways, saying a MU is this or that doesn't give you the win, the knowledge that you need to win is what does.
MK has a slight advantage on Yoshi and that's all there is to it. Now let's get back to talking about what should be done in this MU.
Exactly why I don't like numbers, the whole "advantage/slight advantage" term is a loose one, which is why I like it. It's not some "60-40" number bull**** that's so official, MU's grow and get better or worse, strapping a number to it doesn't really give it that room to move, it makes it seem like it's always "60-40".
But that's all pointless anyways, saying a MU is this or that doesn't give you the win, the knowledge that you need to win is what does.
MK has a slight advantage on Yoshi and that's all there is to it. Now let's get back to talking about what should be done in this MU.
A couple things.
I hate you guys. I still think the matchup is close to even
And don't watch my matches with Polt to judge my knowledge on the matchup, I'm confident I know the matchup pretty well now, I just think that a Yoshi better than Polt would still be able to beat me.
But at this point, I'll just have to do a lil Yoshi homework of my own. If i'm wrong I guess I'll have to concede defeat
The main thing I see about Yoshi is that he doesn't seem easy to exploit, but you guys say otherwise, so I'll def get in the lab on this one...
I hate you guys. I still think the matchup is close to even
And don't watch my matches with Polt to judge my knowledge on the matchup, I'm confident I know the matchup pretty well now, I just think that a Yoshi better than Polt would still be able to beat me.
But at this point, I'll just have to do a lil Yoshi homework of my own. If i'm wrong I guess I'll have to concede defeat
The main thing I see about Yoshi is that he doesn't seem easy to exploit, but you guys say otherwise, so I'll def get in the lab on this one...
No offense towards any of us. But Right now Polt is sorta the only one getting top 4 at almost every tournament he goes too.
He plays a Basic, But smart Yoshi knowing what move beats what and how to DI/SDI it.
Delta is A careful Yoshi and smart in the MU department.
Yika and I are Technique Freaks, outside of Yika being smart in the Frame Data department as well.
Not sure about Hades and Firefly, but I know they're doing well in their own respective regions while Hades is in the BBR.
As for Gashi Raptor Yoshiken etc. not sure on how they're doing. So basically as of right now, Polt is the best Yoshi.
He plays a Basic, But smart Yoshi knowing what move beats what and how to DI/SDI it.
Delta is A careful Yoshi and smart in the MU department.
Yika and I are Technique Freaks, outside of Yika being smart in the Frame Data department as well.
Not sure about Hades and Firefly, but I know they're doing well in their own respective regions while Hades is in the BBR.
As for Gashi Raptor Yoshiken etc. not sure on how they're doing. So basically as of right now, Polt is the best Yoshi.
~Firefly~
Smash Hero
Polt reacts right to stupid mistakes people shouldn't do against Yoshis since '09.
As example, Polt vs. Anti
Anti did tornado on the SV platform with Polt being under it (whyever lol). Polt upsmashed him out of it.
Afterwards Anti airdodges into him (... so stupid) and got obviously pivot grabbed to GRupsmash.
that are hard mistakes that shouldn't happen. :/
As example, Polt vs. Anti
Anti did tornado on the SV platform with Polt being under it (whyever lol). Polt upsmashed him out of it.
Afterwards Anti airdodges into him (... so stupid) and got obviously pivot grabbed to GRupsmash.
that are hard mistakes that shouldn't happen. :/
Depster
Smash Champion
Way to forget about me... It's not my fault I can't make it to any tournaments!
CelestialMarauder~
Smash Ace
Heres something P-4 What do you find difficult about this matchup? Honestly its really not as hard as most of you think. But i will admit, if you play this matchup like you would play normally it seems a lot more even.
I wasn't using it to really judge your knowledge of the matchup because it was a year old lol. That might have been like your first time playing yoshi in tourny anyway. I used it since you posted here and had a video up, i could at least point out somethings that happened there that really shouldn't have happened.A couple things.
I hate you guys. I still think the matchup is close to even
And don't watch my matches with Polt to judge my knowledge on the matchup, I'm confident I know the matchup pretty well now, I just think that a Yoshi better than Polt would still be able to beat me.
But at this point, I'll just have to do a lil Yoshi homework of my own. If i'm wrong I guess I'll have to concede defeat
He's pretty easy to exploit but even at that its not like you just shut your brain off and Shuttle Loop. You still need to think, just think outside of the box, you guys are just over thinking it. Someone said yoshi has more than 3 recovery options. Okay lets say we count veering onstage and eggtoss as an option. Shuttle Loop still covers those 4 out of his 5 options lol. The threat of it is like your biggest tool for us offstage. Even if it isn't a gimp you will get the majority of your damage offstage.
Was that even relevant? Swag, Polt is the best yoshi. Okay fine lets call him the best Yoshi. Nice title. THAT ISN'T AN EXCUSE FOR NOT KNOWING WHAT TO DO. Most of the people playing him are like so sucked into the "holy **** its the Blood god" mentality that they don't realize that he's still using yoshi. No matter how good someone is their character still has its weaknesses. And when we're telling them his weaknesses, they seem to not think it will work even if they never tried it.
Idk some of you guys seem to have tunnel vision in this matchup. Pick up Yoshi for like a week and play someone and tell them "Use MK and Shuttle Loop my recovery" I guarantee it might take a few games but after a while you'll see what we mean.
Poltergust
Smash Master
I'm pretty sure that everyone treats the whole "Blood God" thing as a joke. Otherwise, that would be really sad.
Judo777
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,627
I have to give my disclaimer. I often realize that on SWF I come off as sounding condescending and I promise its not intentional. I'm very opinionated is all so if I sounded like I was being mean its not on purpose. I don't sound mean IRL lol
Player-4
See you in 25 years
What's difficult is MU inexperience. I mean honestly, who plays Yoshi? Very few people, and Yoshi isn't really a character people **** around with either, I play Brawl constantly, practicing literally some of the best players in TX, so getting exp from them is good because it's not just their mains I get practice with, they'll play Snake, Marth, GW, TL, and even low tiers like Zelda.
But getting Yoshi exp is impossible, no one plays him or really knows how to play him due to his weird mechanics and options.
So what throws me off the most is not knowing what Yoshi can do and what Yoshi's do in whatever situation. Personally I have a problem with reaction time, so when a Yoshi does something I'm not expecting, I don't know what to do or how to react to it due to my poor reaction time, so that's why I rely on preaction time and knowing what characters have what options when they touch my shield or do this move or that move.
So basically what beats me the most in this MU is, not knowing what Yoshi is going to do next, not knowing his move properties in general, not really knowing what to exploit, and his annoying aspects like GR CG, eggs in general, him shutting down my Nado so easily, and just his gtfo moves like Jab and Nair.
CelestialMarauder~
Smash Ace
Well try out the stuff we said. If you're calling it a slight MK advantage when you don't know what Yoshi does what is it when you do lol. Pick up Yoshi for like a week. Or stop by the boards to figure out how he works. He's full of so many little gimmicks that i can't really explain in a short span of time. Some of them you can't even understand as much unless you use him. So either find Polt and friendly the hell outta him or Pick up Yoshi.
Thank you for adding this. I just assumed that you're a ****.
D
Deleted member
Guest
MKs over think the matchup too much. I promise if i ever play polt i will go MK and beat him (and hes clearly a better player than me). I understand why Mks have trouble, but i play the matchup from both sides and its SOOOO easy for MK once you realize how simple it really is. I would not say yoshi gets gimped often but he should be taking a good deal of damage most of the time he goes offstage.
Yes you can just nado all of yoshis landings if he doesnt have a double jump (read, after recovering). That imo is what makes the matchup so bad. Its terrible xD Yoshi has to get extremely lucky with nair spacing or you have to have bad reaction time. If the MK has bad reaction time the matchup isnt too bad for yoshi.
I disagree, you dont need to think outside the box to beat yoshi, you just need to think inside a smaller box XD If you try to do too much you are giving yoshi leeway to get momentum and actually do stuff. If you honestly just watch the dumb little dinosaur moving on the screen and dont run into his tongue like Mks often feel comfortable doing (which is nasty), its really easy for MK. Coupled with the fact that you can literally walk next to yoshi and hes screwed. Walk single ftilt and you force a spotdodge or shield. And if he shields u literally just walk up to him and wait for him to do something xD Its so fun to abuse yoshi with MK, im glad MK mains dont do it more but yea
Anyways thats what i think. Id like to think i used to be pretty decent at the MK matchup when I played *cough* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fKTQciWenI *cough*
Obviously watching one of polts matches is more instructive, but this is a good example of how an MK should not play the matchup, and how most do xD
(game 2 wasnt recorded, but he just stops running around, nados my landings and JV 3 stocks me go figure :D)
Yes you can just nado all of yoshis landings if he doesnt have a double jump (read, after recovering). That imo is what makes the matchup so bad. Its terrible xD Yoshi has to get extremely lucky with nair spacing or you have to have bad reaction time. If the MK has bad reaction time the matchup isnt too bad for yoshi.
I disagree, you dont need to think outside the box to beat yoshi, you just need to think inside a smaller box XD If you try to do too much you are giving yoshi leeway to get momentum and actually do stuff. If you honestly just watch the dumb little dinosaur moving on the screen and dont run into his tongue like Mks often feel comfortable doing (which is nasty), its really easy for MK. Coupled with the fact that you can literally walk next to yoshi and hes screwed. Walk single ftilt and you force a spotdodge or shield. And if he shields u literally just walk up to him and wait for him to do something xD Its so fun to abuse yoshi with MK, im glad MK mains dont do it more but yea
Anyways thats what i think. Id like to think i used to be pretty decent at the MK matchup when I played *cough* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fKTQciWenI *cough*
Obviously watching one of polts matches is more instructive, but this is a good example of how an MK should not play the matchup, and how most do xD
(game 2 wasnt recorded, but he just stops running around, nados my landings and JV 3 stocks me go figure :D)
Player-4
See you in 25 years
I'm saying I know it's slightly MKs favor because I just know my character slightly beats Yoshi and that's all there is to it. On a personal level it's Yoshi's favor lol.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I'm saying I know it's heavily Yoshi's disadvantage because I just know my character gets ***** by MK and that's all there is to it. On a personal level it's an autoloss lol.
Played Yikarur yesterday, tried out some the stuff you guys said in here and hey, it didnt work quite as well as some of you told in this thread.
Espeacally the Up B edgeguarding.
Playing this MU in a "small box" doesnt work that well, because Yoshi has got more than 2-3 options in every situation and it´s not a character, which you should underrate, even if you know the MU.
Instead of saying: MKs have to learn that matchup,
ever thought about: Yoshis have to learn the matchup? (except Polt, who is doing really well vs. Metaknights)
When I watch videos of Polt vs. MK it never looked as if Yoshi gets hardcountered by MK, it never looked worse than +2.
Espeacally the Up B edgeguarding.
Playing this MU in a "small box" doesnt work that well, because Yoshi has got more than 2-3 options in every situation and it´s not a character, which you should underrate, even if you know the MU.
Instead of saying: MKs have to learn that matchup,
ever thought about: Yoshis have to learn the matchup? (except Polt, who is doing really well vs. Metaknights)
When I watch videos of Polt vs. MK it never looked as if Yoshi gets hardcountered by MK, it never looked worse than +2.
D
Deleted member
Guest
LOL
how about ive beaten plenty of good MK players and i understand the limitations of my character.
You just dont understand the matchup, thats fine. yoshi is a pretty unique character so while the matchup is easy for MK, you have to understand how the character works.
Since yoshi is so weird its hard to just read about how you are supposed to play it and then instantly apply it.
Nobody is johning, i dont even play anymore really. Its just that yoshi has a bad disadvantage against meta knight. You are looking for accuracy and its straight up false to say that yoshi has anything less than a -2 against meta knight.
Its like "hey polt beats MKs, yoshi goes even with MK"
no. Its not like yoshi is an easy to understand character. He has a lot of options, its just that they aren't hard to beat.
Sorry your reaction time sucks tho staco ):
how about ive beaten plenty of good MK players and i understand the limitations of my character.
You just dont understand the matchup, thats fine. yoshi is a pretty unique character so while the matchup is easy for MK, you have to understand how the character works.
Since yoshi is so weird its hard to just read about how you are supposed to play it and then instantly apply it.
Nobody is johning, i dont even play anymore really. Its just that yoshi has a bad disadvantage against meta knight. You are looking for accuracy and its straight up false to say that yoshi has anything less than a -2 against meta knight.
Its like "hey polt beats MKs, yoshi goes even with MK"
no. Its not like yoshi is an easy to understand character. He has a lot of options, its just that they aren't hard to beat.
Sorry your reaction time sucks tho staco ):
CelestialMarauder~
Smash Ace
Record them so we can tell you how wrong you did it?
CelestialMarauder~
Smash Ace
When he UP b's Yika and you're Low/Mid what do you do?
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Well naturally you don't ONLY Shuttle Loop. I'm very certain that we've stated that that move and the massive range it covers is VERY threatening and hurts our recovery by causing us to be a lot more linear since the risk of doing something otherwise is MUCH too high.
Also, it's not like you can just read what to do and then do it. Yoshi is weird and it takes A LOT of experience to get it down. I used to have NO MK problems at all for almost three years. Now my region knows what to do and the MU makes me rage.
Would you mind telling us why else you think Yoshi is at a disadvantage?
Also, it's not like you can just read what to do and then do it. Yoshi is weird and it takes A LOT of experience to get it down. I used to have NO MK problems at all for almost three years. Now my region knows what to do and the MU makes me rage.
Would you mind telling us why else you think Yoshi is at a disadvantage?
Poltergust
Smash Master
P4 went Lucario against me in tournament today, forcing me to go Dedede. Why not Meta Knight, P4? 
Judo777
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,627
No you don't only up B. I simply stated that MK has a rock paper scissors game where rock beats scissors and paper. If you have that setup it doesn't mean you always pick rock. Its just nice to pick it a little more often then the other 2.
Its just nice to have a 4/9 chance of winning rock paper scissors instead of a 1/3 chance like you regularly do. Also rock or SL is ALWAYS safe.
Its just nice to have a 4/9 chance of winning rock paper scissors instead of a 1/3 chance like you regularly do. Also rock or SL is ALWAYS safe.
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Lmao you make it sound like I put a gun to your head and made you go D3. My Lucario is just a baby, I don't know why you were "forced" to go D3.P4 went Lucario against me in tournament today, forcing me to go Dedede. Why not Meta Knight, P4?
YOU SCARED POLT!!!!!
CelestialMarauder~
Smash Ace
Just the analogy i was looking for lol
And Yo P4 Lucario is scary as hell to us poor Yoshis ;-; We can't gimp him. We can't kill him we can hardly get in on him. He out ranges us and we can't punish him out of shield. He out camps us.....The closer we get to a kill the easier it is for him to kill us. DAIR stuffs like everything and again no shield can't punish really. Lucario mad mean. I'd take MK any day. And least i have a way to kill him if i get a grab.
Only reason i don't consider you guys a hard counter lol
Poltergust
Smash Master
Orion*
Smash Researcher
...the **** game are you playing
it actually works at some angles
but just react to the fair
Learn to nado yoshi properly. He can't really do much out of super hard mixups and reads to punish it lol, then juggle him, don't even both with the gimps. 7:3 next mu
TKD
Smash Lord
why use numbers?
close advantage counter
that easy. and if mk doesn't counter yoshi, i don't know what this is.
just hit his shield and juggle him i guess!
close advantage counter
that easy. and if mk doesn't counter yoshi, i don't know what this is.
just hit his shield and juggle him i guess!
~PWN~
Smash Cadet
I faced a Yoshi main and was actually really surprised at how well he was doing against my MK. Those eggs are crazy O_O But I think the more he is off the stage the better every one of my kills were from throwing him off stage and attacking him in air till he fell. on ground we do decent but that grab is annoying XD
not guaranteed at all.His cg to spike is actually guaranteed at the right spacing. And yoshi kinda needs to be aggressive since his shield is so bad.
