Meta Knight's New Match Up Thread: Yoshi

[AfroQT]

It's clear this will go no where, the Yoshi mains dont even listen to reason at all, and cant even take comparisons. ANYONE can write **** down on paper, we can sit here and theorycraft all day, OR we can go out, either play the matches or look at people who HAVE played the matches and see how it goes down. Saying "MK can easily shuttle loop yoshi np np np its so easy watch it done" please SHOW it being done. I want to see some yoshi being consistently shuttleloopd gimped by a MK.

No one is meat riding Polt, he has the most respectable placings with Yoshi in the U.S. (that i am aware of). Wtf meat riding is there, am i wrong? If so, PLEASE correct me so i can just insert that persons name into the sentence where Polt's name is. And from watching videos of Polt (and Deltacod, another Yoshi i've seen perform very well in Tournament), as well as tournament experience against Polt, i can say that Yoshi is not this super easily gimped knock off the stage once free stock lololol character that you people think he is. AND IN COMPARISON, we get way more off of snake from knocking him off the stage then we do from Yoshi. Lets think here...come on. He may get gimped here and there in his matches, but against MK...everyone does (except MK lululu). Show me this free gimping you Yoshi's speak of.

Also LOL at calling any Yoshi scary.I'm guessing 8 minutes of ShuttleLooping Yoshi to 160% was pretty sca- wait thats what should be happening. We're talking polt here. I bet him running at you while you standing still was frightening. Do you still have nightmares of those unpunishable bairs he started from halfway across FD? Look if you reaaaaally need to justify your losses to Polt thats cool. I'm done here. Polt can take over for all of us and give you some protips he's learned from has lack of knowledge of Yoshi.

Rofl look like someone is butthurt that Polt > U lolol

 

[Delta-cod]

It's clear this will go no where, the Yoshi mains dont even listen to reason at all, and cant even take comparisons. ANYONE can write **** down on paper, we can sit here and theorycraft all day, OR we can go out, either play the matches or look at people who HAVE played the matches and see how it goes down. Saying "MK can easily shuttle loop yoshi np np np its so easy watch it done" please SHOW it being done. I want to see some yoshi being consistently shuttleloopd gimped by a MK.

There's not much reason coming from people who were unaware that Yoshi couldn't even jump OOS.

You also neglected to read the thread. Here's something I posted about 10 posts back:

lmao, this post is so bad.

I'm gonna tell you how MK edgeguards Yoshi, Tristate style, since they actually know how to do it efficiently. And it's easy. You all complicate it for no reason at all.

We have basically have three options when recovering.

Double Jump Airdodge
Double Jump Aerial
Double Jump Using Heavy Armor

Shuttle loop beats two (2!) of those options and sends us further offstage without a jump. The only other option we have against that is Airdodge, which ends up with us getting shuttle looped anyways. Luckily, this alternative shuttle loop hits us across the stage, allowing us to reach the other ledge/land onstage. Even if you WHIFF, you can still follow us with glide, which puts immense pressure on us since we're still recovering onstage, or you can safely land back onstage while we get to the ledge, which is still an awful position. I've had matches where I take massive percent going back and forth across the stage being shuttle looped, and there's NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT. My only option is to attempt to make the read, but that's AWFUL considering the risk (easy death).

I guess my word isn't good enough alone. I'll work on getting more vids someday.

No one is meat riding Polt, he has the most respectable placings with Yoshi in the U.S. (that i am aware of). Wtf meat riding is there, am i wrong? If so, PLEASE correct me so i can just insert that persons name into the sentence where Polt's name is. And from watching videos of Polt (and Deltacod, another Yoshi i've seen perform very well in Tournament), as well as tournament experience against Polt, i can say that Yoshi is not this super easily gimped knock off the stage once free stock lololol character that you people think he is. AND IN COMPARISON, we get way more off of snake from knocking him off the stage then we do from Yoshi. Lets think here...come on. He may get gimped here and there in his matches, but against MK...everyone does (except MK lululu). Show me this free gimping you Yoshi's speak of.

It's been addressed before, but very few of Polt's opponents actually know full well how to edgeguard Yoshi. You can link me to any number of Polt:MK videos and I'd probably be able to write lengthy descriptions of what the MK did wrong. It's a very simple match up, and the problem is that MKs treat Yoshi as some respectable threat instead of a low tier character. I've had P wii beat me with Shuttle Loop consisting of about 70% of the moves that hit me. He REALLY knows how to **** Yoshi since he used to main him. You can even ask him yourself, but I usually tell him that whenever I play him, I never want to touch Brawl again.

As for the Snake comparison, you may get more damage or whatever off of Snake by knocking him offstage, but it doesn't matter as much because he's stupidly fat and he has a lot of kill power and damage output. Our only reliable kills come from GR > Usmash.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

It's clear this will go no where, the Yoshi mains dont even listen to reason at all, and cant even take comparisons. ANYONE can write **** down on paper, we can sit here and theorycraft all day, OR we can go out, either play the matches or look at people who HAVE played the matches and see how it goes down. Saying "MK can easily shuttle loop yoshi np np np its so easy watch it done" please SHOW it being done. I want to see some yoshi being consistently shuttleloopd gimped by a MK.

No one is meat riding Polt, he has the most respectable placings with Yoshi in the U.S. (that i am aware of). Wtf meat riding is there, am i wrong? If so, PLEASE correct me so i can just insert that persons name into the sentence where Polt's name is. And from watching videos of Polt (and Deltacod, another Yoshi i've seen perform very well in Tournament), as well as tournament experience against Polt, i can say that Yoshi is not this super easily gimped knock off the stage once free stock lololol character that you people think he is. AND IN COMPARISON, we get way more off of snake from knocking him off the stage then we do from Yoshi. Lets think here...come on. He may get gimped here and there in his matches, but against MK...everyone does (except MK lululu). Show me this free gimping you Yoshi's speak of.



Rofl look like someone is butthurt that Polt > U lolol

Spoiler

Now what you are seeing is a representation of a Car (My palm) that was swiftly interupted by a tree (my face).

You say all Yoshis are doing is theory craft, wrong. We are speaking from experience. YOU are theory crafting. Your only knowledge of Yoshi seems to be from Polt videos and apparently Delta's. Now Delta him self posted here but you must have missed the part where he borderline repeated what i said a page earlier. Its cool tho. We aren't talking him getting gimped easily. We are talking him getting ***** for about 20 minutes before finally touching down on the stage. How about you watch that Anti vs Polt set and imagine what would happen if instead of following polt to the ends of the earth offstage, he stood there and waited for the obvious DJ AD? Okay now Polt is slightly above the stage without a Jump. You hit him of- actually im theory crafting again. This obviously can't happen because you haven't seen it. Actually, i give up. We're telling you guys our character is free, and you don't want to believe us.


Also not mad "Polt > Me lolololol" I root for him in his tournys and what not. Kinda salty people like you watch his games and assume all his opponents were completely knowledgeable about the Yoshi matchup and if they didn't do something that means it can't happen.

Edit: Ninja'd

 

[etecoon]

your character is free, but not for the reasons you're stating

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Someone with an actual opinion? Now I'm curious. Why are we free then?

 

[etecoon]

yoshi's shield vs MK's frame data is a horrendous mismatch, most of yoshi's moveset is very punishable if baited, MK's ground speed and lowness to the ground make it difficult to safely camp him, and I don't think yoshi has very good kill setups outside of grab release. I see those things as being much bigger weaknesses than yoshi recovering

 

[Delta-cod]

Yoshi doesn't shield in general. A lot of character's OOS options vs. MK's frame data is bad. Tornado and MK's range simply beat a lot of our options. Nothing to do with shield.

Anything is punishable when baited.

Camping doesn't necessarily mean throwing eggs.

Very true.

Recovery only adds to the free. If we didn't take massive damage while trying to recover we'd have more time and opportunities to land a grab and get those Chain Grabs and little things in so we can somehow win. It's still a huge problem.

 

[etecoon]

yoshi's may be accustomed to not shielding because it's bad in general but it still takes away from you, particularly the bit about tornado. sorry to make the comparison again but snake is in a similar position where tornado beats almost every one of his attacks, it's mostly his ability to rely on his shield that keeps that MU somewhat manageable. lots of characters are like that really, most don't have great options for challenging tornado head on

 

[Delta-cod]

Yoshi's shield is actually decent for dealing with Tornado. It's stronger, it doesn't get stabbed, and our spotdodge out of it when Nado is on top of it is good for punishing. Not to mention that, if we really need to shield Nado, we probably could have just upsmashed or grabbed it anyways. Yoshi is good at dealing with Nado when he's not already in a bad position.

So the Nado example is a liiiiiiiiittle bit off. It's mainly MK's ability to outrange us and avoid our more standard defense option (pivot grab) that lets him **** us. His range is actually a huge factor in recovering; if Shuttle Loop didn't cover such MASSIVE ground, it wouldn't be such a problem. But it does, and since we have no Up B/autosnap, we're really forced to deal with it the vast majority of the time.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

yoshi's shield vs MK's frame data is a horrendous mismatch, most of yoshi's moveset is very punishable if baited, MK's ground speed and lowness to the ground make it difficult to safely camp him, and I don't think yoshi has very good kill setups outside of grab release. I see those things as being much bigger weaknesses than yoshi recovering

Lol shield. We aren't gonna be shielding much here. That shouldn't be much of a statement because even as MK you don't have anything that will scare us to the point of running to our shield.

Punishable if baited? Im not exactly sure which move you're talking here. But you outrange us pretty hard so i feel where you're comming from.

We don't safely camp many people. We do it anyway. Campings more than us throwing eggs. Your size wouldn't really matter there anyway. I'd even do it to Kirby.

True at the kill setups. Well we do have this. Always works apparently

Honestly having a true killsetup is all we need. We can be patient as **** until you fall into a random kill move or you get grabbed, which would be a lot easier to do if getting offstage didn't tack on an extra 60% each time. It's a mindset killer. You put us from, relatively in the lead to wow im about to lose this stock in 10 seconds flat. This matchup would be playable if you didn't have that.

Edit: Ninja'd again

 

[AfroQT]

YOU are theory crafting.

How about you watch that Anti vs Polt set and imagine what would happen if instead of following polt to the ends of the earth offstage, he stood there and waited for the obvious DJ AD?

I lost.
And i'm the salty one, why would i be salty rofl, i have zero reasons to be butthurt while its clear just mentioning polt got you wound lolol

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

I lost.
And i'm the salty one, why would i be salty rofl, i have zero reasons to be butthurt while its clear just mentioning polt got you wound lolol

Too lazy to get a facepalm image. I never said you were salty. Continue talking.

 

[AfroQT]

Too lazy to get a facepalm image. I never said you were salty. Continue talking.

Kinda salty people like you watch his games and assume all his opponents were completely knowledgeable about the Yoshi matchup and if they didn't do something that means it can't happen.

I READ THIS WRONG I APOLOGIZE SIR YOSHI MAIN CONTINUE BEING FREE THO

np

 

[Nordal]

This whole thread....

 

[AfroQT]

This whole thread....

Yo good post 10/10

So yoshi 80/20 Mk all we do is knock him off and then win apparently.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

I READ THIS WRONG I APOLOGIZE SIR YOSHI MAIN CONTINUE BEING FREE THO

np

YES YOU DID CUZ THAT OBVS SED THAT I AM SALTY DAT PEOPLE LIKE U DON'T PAY ATTENTION.

*cruise control*

 

[AfroQT]

Uh huh so yeah this MU definitely isn't as bad as Yoshi's think lol. Trying to say that you take alot of damage recovering is dumb, because everyone takes alot of damage recovering vs MK. This is a very common trend among vs MK matchups lol. You still have really good ground zoning and great punishes as well as a projectile, it doesn't have to be the best. Grab into Usmash is good, we can't just rush Yoshi on the ground because of Pivot Grab, nor can we guarentee a safe aerial approach if the Yoshi doesn't just stand in one spot and allow it. Tornado is good vs Yoshi but who isn't it good versus.

Yeah if you get knocked off the stage, i'm sure its bad (like every other character vs MK), but you definitely aren't a completely free matchup.

 

[Nordal]

Well now, this discussion was just oh so productive and worth lurking for. Ta ta people!

 

[Reizilla]

in 10 seconds flat.

Best part of any post in this whole thread.

Carry on.

 

[Delta-cod]

Uh huh so yeah this MU definitely isn't as bad as Yoshi's think lol. Trying to say that you take alot of damage recovering is dumb, because everyone takes alot of damage recovering vs MK. This is a very common trend among vs MK matchups lol. You still have really good ground zoning and great punishes as well as a projectile, it doesn't have to be the best. Grab into Usmash is good, we can't just rush Yoshi on the ground because of Pivot Grab, nor can we guarentee a safe aerial approach if the Yoshi doesn't just stand in one spot and allow it. Tornado is good vs Yoshi but who isn't it good versus.

Yeah if you get knocked off the stage, i'm sure its bad (like every other character vs MK), but you definitely aren't a completely free matchup.

You're dumb and you know nothing about how to avoid the incredibly limited options of a low tier character.

Imagine if 3/4 of the MK boards thought. MK woulda been banned back in '09.

 

[etecoon]

Imagine if 3/4 of the MK boards thought. MK woulda been banned back in '09.

you literally said this

 

[AfroQT]

You're dumb and you know nothing about how to avoid the incredibly limited options of a low tier character.

Imagine if 3/4 of the MK boards thought. MK woulda been banned back in '09.

Lol i love low tier mains

If you guys actually thought, Yoshi would be high tier.

EDIT:
Oh my god i edited this like 100 times

 

[Scatz]

 

[Yikarur]

meh come on guys, be kind. I feel a bit ashamed of your tone.
we can dicuss this on a formal way, we don't need to attack anyone because they don't know much about Yoshi and when they're acting dumb just ignore it. These face palm pictures are not necessary :/

 

[Staco]

Okay,
first of all:
Yoshi got more than 3 options while recovering vs. MK.
1. If you got proper DI you shouldnt end up under the stage = you don´t have to waste your DJ. Most of the time you should be able to DI back on stage without using your DJ.
2. You´ve even got lots of basic options, like jumping to the edge from below, coming from above and dodging to the edge etc.; then Yoshi got some specific options, like down B´ing to the edge from above, jumping to the edge and using down b, using neutral b, throwing an egg before DJ or to reach heights, when coming from above etc.
If MK just waited at the edge to up b you, you could just go to the edge and then get back from there. You could even jump above him and make it really hard/impossible to aerial up B you back offstage, if you dodge at the right time.
That´s why MKs wont just stand at the edge, if you are recovering. You can´t just stand there and Up B and throw him back offstage by doing so all the time.
Even if you hit by a grounded MK Up B, Yoshi will get thrown offstage on a high angle, which means you can recover from above and Yoshi isn´t easily juggled, cause of his good airspeed.



Show me any video of a metaknight gimping or offstageraping a good Yoshi the way you stated.

 

[Luigisama]

idk what is funnier
the failure to get this mu discussed or the funny faces that MK mains have when they mash buttons to get out of yoshi's grab release.

 

[BlueZebra]

If it's not productive, doesn't regard information of the match up, is a face palm or just a stupid comment, don't post it please. =|

Can we actually get some Yoshi vs MK vids of Meta successfully keeping Yoshi off stage, and maybe a few vids of both characters playing at a high level? That'd be cool.

Later I'm going to go through the salt, find all the good posts and quote it into the main post, just so people can find the useful information off the bat.

 

[etecoon]

no because there are no meta knight's that play at a high level. if there were he would have been banned in 2009.

 

[Player-4]

Alright now that everyone has received their nice little red cards, you guys wanna get your **** together and stop spamming and *****ing?

Seriously, this is a MU thread, post your helpful ideas and leave it at, you guys don't need to be *****ing at each other.

If MK can actually SL Yoshi out of his DJ armor I'd like to know it, now does that mean he's easy to gimp? Hell no, there's many ways around it, but does the possibility still remains that I can do it? Well that's something I'd like to know.

Seriously, instead of the MKs *****ing about the Yoshi's input and visa versa, how about you guys just post your knowledge on the MU and leave it at that, and then instead of acting like Einstein in your posts on the MU to the other side, you guys just shut up and leave it alone.

If you disagree with something just say so, but you don't have to turn it into a heated topic by taking shots at each other.

TL;DR
Post your knowledge and leave it at that, and if you disagree with something, just say you simply don't think so and list your reasons without turning it into a pissing contest, you guys can do that right?

 

[Scatz]

Alright now that everyone has received their nice little red cards, you guys wanna get your **** together and stop spamming and *****ing?

Seriously, this is a MU thread, post your helpful ideas and leave it at, you guys don't need to be *****ing at each other.

If MK can actually SL Yoshi out of his DJ armor I'd like to know it, now does that mean he's easy to gimp? Hell no, there's many ways around it, but does the possibility still remains that I can do it? Well that's something I'd like to know.

Seriously, instead of the MKs *****ing about the Yoshi's input and visa versa, how about you guys just post your knowledge on the MU and leave it at that, and then instead of acting like Einstein in your posts on the MU to the other side, you guys just shut up and leave it alone.

If you disagree with something just say so, but you don't have to turn it into a heated topic by taking shots at each other.

TL;DR
Post your knowledge and leave it at that, and if you disagree with something, just say you simply don't think so and list your reasons without turning it into a pissing contest, you guys can do that right?

Fine, cause it's just going in a complete circle. Thanks for the infraction though. Was quite sweet of ya.

Okay,
first of all:
Yoshi got more than 3 options while recovering vs. MK.
1. If you got proper DI you shouldnt end up under the stage = you don´t have to waste your DJ. Most of the time you should be able to DI back on stage without using your DJ.
2. You´ve even got lots of basic options, like jumping to the edge from below, coming from above and dodging to the edge etc.; then Yoshi got some specific options, like down B´ing to the edge from above, jumping to the edge and using down b, using neutral b, throwing an egg before DJ or to reach heights, when coming from above etc.
If MK just waited at the edge to up b you, you could just go to the edge and then get back from there. You could even jump above him and make it really hard/impossible to aerial up B you back offstage, if you dodge at the right time.
That´s why MKs wont just stand at the edge, if you are recovering. You can´t just stand there and Up B and throw him back offstage by doing so all the time.
Even if you hit by a grounded MK Up B, Yoshi will get thrown offstage on a high angle, which means you can recover from above and Yoshi isn´t easily juggled, cause of his good airspeed.



Show me any video of a metaknight gimping or offstageraping a good Yoshi the way you stated.

There are no good current videos to show you that I would know of. I would know because I wouldn't get gimpled like that when I played GA MKs and Seibrik. Hell, the one time I played M2k, he couldn't gimp me then. I played M2k again recently and he just ***** my entire offstage options with shuttle loop alone. SL picked up the top of my airdodge just to send me back to the blastline or the other side, where I got gimped cause a Yoshi vs a MK without a DJ = 80% chance of a free stock. The only option I had for recovering was going as high to the top of the blastline as possible (which snake does better), and then falling onto the stage where MK just needs to read anything to punish. I've done the data to know that SL knocks us out of DJ at very low percents (Dair too, but at a higher number). It's fairly foolish to try and attack if we're coming from a low angle in the first place.

You say we have options like coming from below? We've literally just realized that MK ***** us hard there because airdodge can be easily baited. Not only that, it's near the ground, where your ground speed can catch us regardless or what we do.

Ground options [pivot grab] for you to not rush in? Well duh, it forces you to not rush in blindly. I don't know how obvious Yoshi's blindspot is (just above his nose and infront of his eyes) because it's constantly there, even with his "excellent pivot grab." Well spaced nado doesn't get touched by pivotgrab and beats any other conventional options we would go for. If you space nado while we're trying to knock you out of it, we trade, which doesn't knock you out of nado. While we're on pivot grab, you can easily bait the move by playing a mid range game. Due to your ground speed, you can catch the end lag of pivot grab and punish it. Plus, you can most likely interrupt it with Dtilt and Ftilt because of how much damn startup we have before the hitbox comes out for pivot grab. Of course, you might mess up every now and then, but your character easily wins this matchup when played patient (not camping perse).

 

[RaptorTEC]

If it's not productive, doesn't regard information of the match up, is a face palm or just a stupid comment, don't post it please. =|

Can we actually get some Yoshi vs MK vids of Meta successfully keeping Yoshi off stage, and maybe a few vids of both characters playing at a high level? That'd be cool.

Later I'm going to go through the salt, find all the good posts and quote it into the main post, just so people can find the useful information off the bat.

Lol you made this thread just to try to beat my Yoshi. I hope that's relevant. =I

 

[Exdeath]

Hahaha. I specifically said that Yoshi's recovery is bad, but better than Snake's is in the MU IMO. I made no other claims about Yoshi, or even that Poltergust knows more than anyone else. Stay butt hurt yo.

 

[BlueZebra]

Lol you made this thread just to try to beat my Yoshi. I hope that's relevant. =I

No, not really. I wanted to see what other options I could use against Yoshi and I was curious what people had to say. Plus I really believe Yoshi gets overlooked and the main reason bats lose to this match up is from a lack of knowledge on what to do against him.

Edit: Speaking of which, I noticed whenever MK tries for a Dtilt or a Ftilt against Yoshi, Yoshi's grab can pull him from a further range.

The only match I could find of a top MK vs a top Yoshi was a MM between Anti and Polt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdsKC2PmoTM

 

[Poltergust]

That was an... interesting first 5 pages. I'll just make a few quick notes here:

-Meta Knight is, by far, the hardest character to recover against as Yoshi. Yoshi is always threatened to get gimped or take on a lot of damage whenever he is knocked off-stage. Due to this, I try to recover high if I can, and if I can't I save my DJ for when it's absolutely necessary. Even if I DJAD back onto the stage and get hit, at least I can recover again with better DI and another DJ. I don't think Yoshi has no chance of recovering against Meta Knight, but his chances decrease the lower he gets in relation to the stage.

-Shuttle Loop is a problem, both versions of it. The aerial one is pretty obvious, but the grounded one actually gives me more trouble (not to mention it's what usually kills me). It doesn't make it safe to attack MK's shield (I usually try to either use a grab or hit it with just the last hit of b-air so that I could out-space it), so approaching MK becomes pretty difficult, especially when you're in kill percentages.

-Tornado is only a problem if we're trying to land, but it's a huge problem there. Since most of Yoshi's options to beat the Tornado are ground-based, Tornado becomes a very effective way of punishing Yoshi's landings. Sure, certain moves in the air could beat it out (like n-air, d-air, or down-B), but that requires a good read and timing. I usually just go to the ledge if I'm getting consistently juggled by Tornado.

-MK's good at baiting and punishing, especially in the hands of a good player. Yoshi can do this too, but to a lesser extent. F-smash is good for punishing air-dodges (it's used the same way as Yoshi's f-smashes, actually), and his f-tilt and d-tilt are good spacing tools that tend to beat out Yoshi's spot-dodge and are lagless enough to punish Yoshi if he shields it and tries to roll away or something. Thankfully, his punishes don't kill too early with good DI, unlike a certain Metal/Fighting Pokemon...

Uh, yeah. That's all I want to put for now. I can't really contribute much else for the time being.

 

[RaptorTEC]

No, not really. I wanted to see what other options I could use against Yoshi and I was curious what people had to say. Plus I really believe Yoshi gets overlooked and the main reason bats lose to this match up is from a lack of knowledge on what to do against him.

I know, i'm just messing around.

Edit: Speaking of which, I noticed whenever MK tries for a Dtilt or a Ftilt against Yoshi, Yoshi's grab can pull him from a further range

Yeah i'm glad you picked up on that actually. I wasn't sure if you knew or not because you kept on questioning how certain grabs connected.


Will write something on this later.

 

[Judo777]

no because there are no meta knight's that play at a high level. if there were he would have been banned in 2009.

Wrong. Its simply that all of the high level Metaknights just almost never lose. And when they do its to.....other high tiers. And the occaisional Mid tier that ***** them through insane talent or them not knowing MU's or both.

 

[Delta-cod]

Okay,
first of all:
Yoshi got more than 3 options while recovering vs. MK.
1. If you got proper DI you shouldnt end up under the stage = you don´t have to waste your DJ. Most of the time you should be able to DI back on stage without using your DJ.

DJ is a major component of our momentum canceling. Even with good DI, most of MKs moves hit us at an angle that without our DJ, our flight path back to the stage is incredibly linear and puts us at the ledge or just above it. That's not good for anything. Except getting punished. Jumping out of this path puts us high in the air above the stage, which is bad because now we're without a jump and ABOVE the stage, which is what got me ***** by Tornado last time I played this MU.

2. You´ve even got lots of basic options, like jumping to the edge from below, coming from above and dodging to the edge etc.; then Yoshi got some specific options, like down B´ing to the edge from above, jumping to the edge and using down b, using neutral b, throwing an egg before DJ or to reach heights, when coming from above etc.

Jumping to the edge from below = no autosnap = Get dair'd/hit and now you're without a jump.

Airdodge to the edge is AWFUL. MK ***** our landings already. Airdodging to the edge is just suicide.

Down B from above is okay, until MKs realize that Yoshi sucks at getting off the ledge against him and that Tornado catches Yoshi out of it easily.

Egg Lay is awful when recovering against MK because he outspaces it to death.

Egg toss is a good stalling tool, and I use it a lot as I recover to bait the MK to jump out so I have an easier time recovering. Some players I play have caught on and no longer buy into it, or they expect the toss and punish it. It's a poor tool but it's one of our better ones.

If MK just waited at the edge to up b you, you could just go to the edge and then get back from there. You could even jump above him and make it really hard/impossible to aerial up B you back offstage, if you dodge at the right time.

The edge is an awful place against MK and its even worse at above 100%. MK keeps us there incredibly well, and it's really only a decent trade off at best.

Jumping above doesn't matter, MK punishes our landings too well.

That´s why MKs wont just stand at the edge, if you are recovering. You can´t just stand there and Up B and throw him back offstage by doing so all the time.

You don't ONLY Shuttle Loop. But that move itself covers SO MANY options that we're forced to take bad options that are highly punishable. It also makes us easy to read.

Even if you hit by a grounded MK Up B, Yoshi will get thrown offstage on a high angle, which means you can recover from above and Yoshi isn´t easily juggled, cause of his good airspeed.

Yep, then we have to land. Yoshi doesn't land well against MK, like I've said 19823190 times.

Show me any video of a metaknight gimping or offstageraping a good Yoshi the way you stated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNJjXY8gbHg&feature=related - Outlines how Yoshi can only deal with Tornado when he's prepared for it. I also got edge ***** pretty frequently, and I don't care that it's M2K, I can recover fine against plenty other top players of other characters. This video also demonstrates how to abuse Yoshi's OBVIOUS blindspot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnL9w-jZydY&feature=related - LOOK AT ALL THAT GLORIOUS RECOVERY RAPAGE. And he didn't even use every opportunity given to him to SL me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktREJ2BXxbY&feature=related - Glorious SL at the beginning. There's another GREAT example of SL putting on loads of pressure (and eventually killing me) at 6:15. An example of him doing it wrong would be at 7:25, where he AIRDODGES as I'm recovering as if he's afraid of something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQN8f3hZaco&NR=1 - There were a couple in here, but this really demonstrates how NOT to edgeguard against Yoshi. For example, running off the ledge and FFing a DAir.

 

[Yikarur]

DJ is a major component of our momentum canceling. Even with good DI, most of MKs moves hit us at an angle that without our DJ, our flight path back to the stage is incredibly linear and puts us at the ledge or just above it.

learn to DI. You can reach heigths that can't be reached by MK if you DI properly and you can recover in this way.
For recovering I would just AD into MK. MK can now Nair you. You DI -> more heigth.

it's hard to recover against MK but the most important thing is too keep your DJ for the "safest" recovery chance.

 

[Delta-cod]

You also reach the same heights by momentum canceling and not eating a bunch of attacks until you're "safe" to DJ.

My DI isn't bad, either, outside of those occasional "got caught trying to do something that involved holding sideways or down" moments, and even then my reactionary DI is usually good enough to cover that.

At low to low-high percents (0-80, maybe), we simply will not get enough height off of most of MK's attacks.

 

[Judo777]

2 quick comments. Number 1 yoshi is absolutely terrible at even GETTING to the ledge because he can't autosnap it with his double jump (he can but its at an unimportantly short distance). Also the height of his DJ is SO predetermined you can see it coming a mile away if he goes for the ledge. His only real option to getting to the ledge his egg tossing which is very slow and can be hit on reaction.

Number 2 you guys act as if yoshi recovering high is a good thing. Yoshi is floatier than snake with less threatening moves downward and can't threaten with nade plucks. His airspeed is better than snakes but that is unimportant when just about everyones run speed is faster than everyones airspeed. Yoshi can be floor trapped all day even easier than Snake can when recovering high. B reverse egglays are a nice mixup like snakes except the maneuver takes about 20 more frames than snakes. SO you can punish it on reaction.

Not going into depth but as the yoshis are telling you. yoshi is really bad off the ledge.