Pimp Daddy Supreme
gio 2.0
just do the first hit of ftilt, if it doesnt hit run away or shield
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Meta Knight Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Dojo
- Start date
I have plenty of experience vs. <3, Ed, and Renki (I've actually lost to all of them in tournament at some point haha), and the most important parts of the match-up for me so far have been walling them out and grabbing them when they try to dash-shield (Sheik's dash-shield allows her to get in better than most characters). You can react to most of Sheik's approaches, although she's mainly going to be needle camping to bait an approach from you which you don't need to do; you can wait in front of her and she'll either panic or shoot needles, which is easily avoided by reaction if you're walling her from a proper distance. When you get her off-stage, don't let her return. You can just space Fsmash to cover all of her options other than ledge-hop>stuff, which you can once again react to and send her back off. Sheik can pretty much be hit by Neutral B for free every time that she's returning to the stage because she literally has no option other than: Be hit, Up-B to the stage, or air dodge through (if they don't have a second jump, they probably won't be able to make it back to the stage).
Sheik doesn't immediately get invincibility once she Up-Bs (think of Meta Knight's Down-B, except somewhat better frame data). Sheik has a GR chain grab, GR>Neutral B, GR>Dash Attack, and GR>Usmash. Don't use jump buttons (including control stick's jump) to mash out at kill percent so that you won't get GR>Usmash. Sheik's Jab/Ftilt/etc. can definitely compete with Meta Knight up close, both frame-wise and reward-wise (Ftilt at mid-low percents is not worth the risk at all, although you can SDI out). Sheik is harder than Snake in a lot ways, so make sure that you don't take the character lightly because of her tier position.
Sheik doesn't immediately get invincibility once she Up-Bs (think of Meta Knight's Down-B, except somewhat better frame data). Sheik has a GR chain grab, GR>Neutral B, GR>Dash Attack, and GR>Usmash. Don't use jump buttons (including control stick's jump) to mash out at kill percent so that you won't get GR>Usmash. Sheik's Jab/Ftilt/etc. can definitely compete with Meta Knight up close, both frame-wise and reward-wise (Ftilt at mid-low percents is not worth the risk at all, although you can SDI out). Sheik is harder than Snake in a lot ways, so make sure that you don't take the character lightly because of her tier position.
clowsui
Smash Legend
metaknight can be air released w/out mashing
sheik can GR -> fair/bair but those are really hard, just fyi though
sheik can GR -> fair/bair but those are really hard, just fyi though
!!!RM!!!
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, its called mashing. Unless you mean something else. >_>
Idk if there's a proper way to mash but the way I mash works pretty well. At least I can break out of a grab after at least 1 pummel until I hit 40%. Pretty good imo, but I don't really have anything to compare it to.
I mash by rotating the control stick with my left thumb counterclockwise(personally I find it easier that direction) and mashing L, R, and Z with my index/middle fingers. With the rest of the buttons on the right side of the controller I sort of "sweep" my thumb across the X, Y, A, B, and C-stick from top to bottom. I drag it from X and Y, down to A, then B, then down on the C-stick, then up on the C-stick, and back up to X. Then just repeat until I break out.
However, if I feel my opponent is going to try to pummel once or twice I use the D-pad and rotate the C-stick as well. I put my left thumb on the D-pad and rotate the control stick with the knuckle on my index finger. With my right thumb I put the C-stick on the "meaty" part of my thumb just below the second knuckle and put my thumb-tip on the A, B, X, and Y buttons. Its weird, but when you never know when it might save you from a greedy Dedede or Falco on the occasional grab. :3
How does everyone else mash?
Idk if there's a proper way to mash but the way I mash works pretty well. At least I can break out of a grab after at least 1 pummel until I hit 40%. Pretty good imo, but I don't really have anything to compare it to.
I mash by rotating the control stick with my left thumb counterclockwise(personally I find it easier that direction) and mashing L, R, and Z with my index/middle fingers. With the rest of the buttons on the right side of the controller I sort of "sweep" my thumb across the X, Y, A, B, and C-stick from top to bottom. I drag it from X and Y, down to A, then B, then down on the C-stick, then up on the C-stick, and back up to X. Then just repeat until I break out.
However, if I feel my opponent is going to try to pummel once or twice I use the D-pad and rotate the C-stick as well. I put my left thumb on the D-pad and rotate the control stick with the knuckle on my index finger. With my right thumb I put the C-stick on the "meaty" part of my thumb just below the second knuckle and put my thumb-tip on the A, B, X, and Y buttons. Its weird, but when you never know when it might save you from a greedy Dedede or Falco on the occasional grab. :3
How does everyone else mash?
ぱみゅ
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Boofy!
Smash Champion
thank you Xdeath and P-4.. one more thing though. Which way should you SDI f-tilt? I've heard both ways but away makes more sense to me.. at least in kill percent so you don't get U-smash'd.
Up and away is best in terms of DI, however my personal preference is straight up because it's easier for me to SDI out on reaction. I usually get Ftilted ~2-3 times before I get out + a Uair if they expect me to SDI out, which is usually obvious. I don't think that Uair is guaranteed if you SDI up and away (I'm not entirely sure that it's guaranteed with straight up DI, but I believe that it is -- depending on stale move queue).
pwiito
Banned via Warnings
on what conditions does mk's dair beat snake's up b? It beats it when it's fresh right? just making sure over here.
it will break the armor when fresh, IIRC any attack that does...7% will?
yes.
Player-4
See you in 25 years
I thought it was 9%
Idk could have my facts mixed up
Idk could have my facts mixed up
Boofy!
Smash Champion
I heard 7% as well
It usually needs to be fresh.
Kaffei
Smash Hero
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If you want to.
Jem.
Smash Master
You don't usually want to mash with jump though, unless I've been wrong my whole life
I hate the idea of buffer mashing to get out of a grab, that means you made a crucial mistake and notice it. But I guess if you decided to go that route, then it is a good thing to do. Be kind of funny if they didn't grab you though and you do something completely random and get punished harder than if you didnt "buffer" mash. I actually hate the term buffer mash. That's just pre-emptive mashing. So I'll call it that now.
But yeah, if when you're grabbed you input a jump, you'll be air-thrown. All PNW MK's always try that gimmick on each other once in awhile to make sure they remember it. Leads to you taking more damage. Don't spin the control stick either, just hit left and right. It counts as 2 inputs IIRC. so mashing left and right back and forth, 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 etc is better than 2 + 1 + 2 + 1 inputs
I hate the idea of buffer mashing to get out of a grab, that means you made a crucial mistake and notice it. But I guess if you decided to go that route, then it is a good thing to do. Be kind of funny if they didn't grab you though and you do something completely random and get punished harder than if you didnt "buffer" mash. I actually hate the term buffer mash. That's just pre-emptive mashing. So I'll call it that now.
But yeah, if when you're grabbed you input a jump, you'll be air-thrown. All PNW MK's always try that gimmick on each other once in awhile to make sure they remember it. Leads to you taking more damage. Don't spin the control stick either, just hit left and right. It counts as 2 inputs IIRC. so mashing left and right back and forth, 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 etc is better than 2 + 1 + 2 + 1 inputs
theunabletable
Smash Lord
All of MKs dair beats out cypher when completely fresh, but if it's stale by even 1, if the inner hitbox hits at all, he'll heavy armor it. The outer hitboxes of MKs dair beat out cypher every time (maybe not at reaaaally stale levels, I'm not sure). IE you have to tip it to beat it.
From personal experience, anyways.
And any character when holding MK that has MK's body touching the ground cannot guarantee an air release. If the character can grab MK, and MK's being held animation by that character has him not touching the ground, they can make you air release every time.
That's why when you get grabbed while over a ledge, you'll always air release if they don't pummel. Like when you get a grab on Wario, you can't get him to air release, unless you're holding him off stage, then he'll air release.
From personal experience, anyways.
And any character when holding MK that has MK's body touching the ground cannot guarantee an air release. If the character can grab MK, and MK's being held animation by that character has him not touching the ground, they can make you air release every time.
That's why when you get grabbed while over a ledge, you'll always air release if they don't pummel. Like when you get a grab on Wario, you can't get him to air release, unless you're holding him off stage, then he'll air release.
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
Oh yeah that reminds me... What's the best option on an air released wario over the ledge? Nair? Shuttle Loop?
Pitzer
The Young Lion
If shuttle loop is fresh then use it.
Orion*
Smash Researcher
at low percents uair lol
GimR
GimR, Co-Founder of VGBootCamp
Your broken character got more broken:
http://vgbootcamp.com/entry.php?6-Metagame-Minute-Metaknight-s-0-to-Death
http://vgbootcamp.com/entry.php?6-Metagame-Minute-Metaknight-s-0-to-Death
Kaffei
Smash Hero
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M2K actually posted something like this a long time ago. I was trying to do it but I could never pull it off, so i thought it didn't exist. I'll try it again.
KassandraNova
Smash Master
If you know the mu, then mk can easily beat sonic. You literally have to fall into sonics fsmash/moves or get timed out by him in order to lose to him. Sonic does little damage and he is bad at landing the kill, unless he gets a hard read. But other than that he's not difficult. Tornado when he spin dashes you, SDI his uair, and don't fall into his fsmash. Lol.
Trust me, its a baaaad mu.
ぱみゅ
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Because he's the only character with locks and setups, right?
inb4 Pikachu, Falco, Ice Climbers
Dojo
Smash Champion
Their Upb is ***, so bait the second jump by pressuring them (they like to try and hit you with uair/fair or some **** like that.) Ff they miss they have to upb and you **** them for it.
Kind of dair camp and when they jump at you nado.
Those two are where I get alot of my damage on him.
Kind of dair camp and when they jump at you nado.
Those two are where I get alot of my damage on him.
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Nah it's really not a bad MU at all lol and Sonic actually does a lot of damage from his spin dashes, usually around 18-22 per good spin dash. He hits hard at times, like a really fast Snake who can't kill.If you know the mu, then mk can easily beat sonic. You literally have to fall into sonics fsmash/moves or get timed out by him in order to lose to him. Sonic does little damage and he is bad at landing the kill, unless he gets a hard read. But other than that he's not difficult. Tornado when he spin dashes you, SDI his uair, and don't fall into his fsmash. Lol.
Trust me, its a baaaad mu.
Dair camping works pretty well in this MU, Nado does too but good Sonics will bait your Nado and punish it.
Save your GSL for the kill since it's hard to land much else, (it's pretty hard to kill Sonic imo). Utilt his Dair if you can for the kill, it's pretty viable.
Honestly this is one of MKs harder MUs, especially if he has the lead, trapping and running down a Sonic is the biggest pain in the ***
Popertop
Smash Champion
this.
it's so easy it's not even funny
JonathantheMeSa
Smash Journeyman
I used to main Lucario and I don't see how this MU is even close, I mean he has Fsmash, Dair, grabs, and aura spheres. so just watch out for Fmash and Spheres, if they are using Dair alot I would tornado, TECHNICALLY his Dair can beat your tornado but it is fairly difficult to do, if anything happens they usually just cancel each other out.
The only other helpful hint I've got is that I notice some Lucarios like to do the first or the first and second hits of jab and then grab if they feel you are just gonna try to shield the whole thing, but I'm pretty sure you can OoS GSL in between the jabs, or maybe it is while your getting hit I forget I just know that Marth can use his up-b to get out of it, so I would assume MKs SL would also work in this situation? Am I correct on this? cuz I can't remember since I haven't played Lucario in forever.
Oh also don't nado if they have a charge AS as it beats nado.
The only other helpful hint I've got is that I notice some Lucarios like to do the first or the first and second hits of jab and then grab if they feel you are just gonna try to shield the whole thing, but I'm pretty sure you can OoS GSL in between the jabs, or maybe it is while your getting hit I forget I just know that Marth can use his up-b to get out of it, so I would assume MKs SL would also work in this situation? Am I correct on this? cuz I can't remember since I haven't played Lucario in forever.
Oh also don't nado if they have a charge AS as it beats nado.
Pimp Daddy Supreme
gio 2.0
pfft jonthemesa what a scrubbbbbbbbbbb 
just dair camp the poop outta lucario, get em off stage somehow and they dead
ftilt/dtilt spank as well
just dair camp the poop outta lucario, get em off stage somehow and they dead
ftilt/dtilt spank as well
!!!RM!!!
Smash Journeyman
You trolllll. 
If Luc gets offstage it should be a stock or at least 50%+.
Probably the biggest thing you can take advantage of against Lucario. Just gimp him lol.
If Luc gets offstage it should be a stock or at least 50%+.
Probably the biggest thing you can take advantage of against Lucario. Just gimp him lol.
JonathantheMeSa
Smash Journeyman
1 - 0 me in tourney play Gio 
hehehe
Anyways I got a Q and I hope you guys got an A.
So I was messing around a couple days ago just practicing some tech stuff, not really doing anything really, but I was practicing buffering moves, mainly I was trying to get a feel for buffering a move out of an AD into the stage and what I was wondering is this: If you buffer your fastest move (idk what it is, I'm guessing SL or maybe ftilt/dtilt) from an AD into the stage can the opponent still grab you? I don't care if they can shield the buffered attack and grab I just wanna know if there is any point in time when they can grab you from that and if so what is the window of opportunity/how likely is it that they will be able to get the grab.
Also what stages do you want to ban/CP against ZSS and Peach, which stages would do you think are best for these MUs?
heheheAnyways I got a Q and I hope you guys got an A.
So I was messing around a couple days ago just practicing some tech stuff, not really doing anything really, but I was practicing buffering moves, mainly I was trying to get a feel for buffering a move out of an AD into the stage and what I was wondering is this: If you buffer your fastest move (idk what it is, I'm guessing SL or maybe ftilt/dtilt) from an AD into the stage can the opponent still grab you? I don't care if they can shield the buffered attack and grab I just wanna know if there is any point in time when they can grab you from that and if so what is the window of opportunity/how likely is it that they will be able to get the grab.
Also what stages do you want to ban/CP against ZSS and Peach, which stages would do you think are best for these MUs?
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Idk if there are really any stages you need to ban vs Peach/ZSS, I'd just ban your personal worst, they don't really have a stage that makes them Godly. I know they both like Brinstar but you're MK lol.
As far as grabbing you from a buffered Dtilt (which is MKs fastest move on the ground) out of Air Dodge, that can easily happen, it's called grab armor lol. You'll still hit them but they'll still grab you through it.
As far as grabbing you from a buffered Dtilt (which is MKs fastest move on the ground) out of Air Dodge, that can easily happen, it's called grab armor lol. You'll still hit them but they'll still grab you through it.
JonathantheMeSa
Smash Journeyman
Alright but how many frames er whatever do they have to do that? Does it happen that often/
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Not really sure how many frames they have, but if someone picks up on you ADing to the ground constantly they can just grab you, it's not really a matter of how often that happens, just depends on the player.