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Meta Knight Q&A Thread

!!!RM!!!

Smash Journeyman
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Imperial Beach, CA
Don't put yourself in the position to be CG'd.

Approach him like normal, but tornado once you get close. If he lasers you out of tornado just tornado again. They won't expect you to tornado twice.
 

Pitzer

The Young Lion
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Oh you want Pit advice. I got you.


Pit vs MK.

If you're close at 0% he's gonna grab throw forward to f-smash, which you can smash di behind him and sweet spot nair. If you think he's gonna arrow and you're close, Air nado. Ground nado gets stopped by arrows. Never use nado to recover, mirror sheild will gimp you if you're on your last frames of nado. Space tilts very well, his range is terrible. Watch out for Bair's, it's his main killer he'll start throwing them out desperately when you're at kill percent. If a Pit runs away he's most likely gonna pivot arrow, in that case, jump Air nado but dont approach him. If there is platform just camp on them. If he's at the edge he's gonna up-b plank or drop off uair. You can trade your dtilt with his Uair. to beat his up-b planking, after the third time he grabs the edge bait him to drop then grab the edge, jump dair, or invicnair. best move to kill pit is up-b OoS, Dair gimps, and D-smash. Watch out for F-smash, bair, glide attack, dash attack, and the occasional FH Dair OoS, or the Dair spam when he's trying to land. Di'ing pits moves is rather easy if he nairs smash di towards him. Uair smash di up and away. Side-B smash di away and walk away.
 

KassandraNova

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Oh you want Pit advice. I got you.


Pit vs MK.

If you're close at 0% he's gonna grab throw forward to f-smash, which you can smash di behind him and sweet spot nair. If you think he's gonna arrow and you're close, Air nado. Ground nado gets stopped by arrows. Never use nado to recover, mirror sheild will gimp you if you're on your last frames of nado. Space tilts very well, his range is terrible. Watch out for Bair's, it's his main killer he'll start throwing them out desperately when you're at kill percent. If a Pit runs away he's most likely gonna pivot arrow, in that case, jump Air nado but dont approach him. If there is platform just camp on them. If he's at the edge he's gonna up-b plank or drop off uair. You can trade your dtilt with his Uair. to beat his up-b planking, after the third time he grabs the edge bait him to drop then grab the edge, jump dair, or invicnair. best move to kill pit is up-b OoS, Dair gimps, and D-smash. Watch out for F-smash, bair, glide attack, dash attack, and the occasional FH Dair OoS, or the Dair spam when he's trying to land. Di'ing pits moves is rather easy if he nairs smash di towards him. Uair smash di up and away. Side-B smash di away and walk away.
Oh mi gosh! :love:
I found this to be very helpful. Time to **** a stupid character with the worst voice in the game. :D

Thank you very much.
 

Pitzer

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CP stages where he can't fly under the stage. Yoshi's, Ps1, etc. Ps1 is arguably his worse stage.

He's good on RC, and other dumb stages but remember you're mk anything pit can do you can do better.

Ban's Ban FD.

If you need any Pit vs mk advice ask me. Since I main both characters.
 

Joaco

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Tips vs Pit?
Oh you want Pit advice. I got you.


Pit vs MK.

If you're close at 0% he's gonna grab throw forward to f-smash, which you can smash di behind him and sweet spot nair. If you think he's gonna arrow and you're close, Air nado. Ground nado gets stopped by arrows. Never use nado to recover, mirror sheild will gimp you if you're on your last frames of nado. Space tilts very well, his range is terrible. Watch out for Bair's, it's his main killer he'll start throwing them out desperately when you're at kill percent. If a Pit runs away he's most likely gonna pivot arrow, in that case, jump Air nado but dont approach him. If there is platform just camp on them. If he's at the edge he's gonna up-b plank or drop off uair. You can trade your dtilt with his Uair. to beat his up-b planking, after the third time he grabs the edge bait him to drop then grab the edge, jump dair, or invicnair. best move to kill pit is up-b OoS, Dair gimps, and D-smash. Watch out for F-smash, bair, glide attack, dash attack, and the occasional FH Dair OoS, or the Dair spam when he's trying to land. Di'ing pits moves is rather easy if he nairs smash di towards him. Uair smash di up and away. Side-B smash di away and walk away.
A month later, thank u
 

Joaco

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If it wasn't for you I would not have any tips, thank you dude.
 

Kaffei

Smash Hero
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Feb 8, 2008
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idk why you think FD is bad vs falco
it's actually not bad if you know what you are doing
he has less recovery options out of like any stage cus it's just flat as fk, so it's way easier to edge guard him

BF is annoying he can like always recover

FD is my favorite stage to fight falco lol
 

Player-4

See you in 25 years
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That's fine if he can recover honestly, with BF you yourself can actually camp. How are you going to avoid lasers or have a safe place to Tornado to when you need to on FD?
 

Kaffei

Smash Hero
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Feb 8, 2008
Messages
7,048
avoid lasers wtf

shield
spot dodge
roll
jump over em
SHAD

lasers are no problem

it's easier to fight falco when you put pressure on him and the only reason u would camp is if you were scrooging or something and i dont do that gay shiet cus im a scrub

nado when his shield isn't full obviously who the fk nados a full shield
 

etecoon

Smash Hero
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May 31, 2009
Messages
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mirror shield won't gimp you unless he gets you during its opening frames, you can bait it or just go around him most of the time. still better not to rely on it a lot but in moderation it's still useful against pit

also here's some **** I wrote about pit a really long time ago, some of it might be outdated now but it might be helpful

Pit has a good up close game with a fast ranged jab and above average smashes. His grabs are all great at setting advantageous positions for him. Pit is outranged by MK for melee attacks, don't get into a boxing match with him. Pit's rapid jab is really gay and you need to DI out of that fast

Pit's fsmash does 19% and is a powerful KO attack. It has roughly the same horizontal range as MK's fsmash and hits on frame 6. You can SDI it if he hits you at point blank to get knocked backwards, no success avoiding the second hit entirely but this could help you live longer by SDIing into him if near the edge.

Pit has a good pivot grab, approach with caution if you see him run backward. Walk and ftilt or fair him, don't dash.

Pit's ftilt has nearly twice as much range as its animation shows, it is unsafe and can mostly be blocked on reaction however

Ideally you want to stay about a dash attack length or a little more away from Pit until he's off balance, enough where you can punish arrows with tornado but too far for him to abuse his strong up close game vs you

Pit's arrows can be curved to hit you from many angles and can be held to bait spot dodges and rolls, additionally with time Pit can loop them so that they come back to hit you while he is able to move possibly to follow with a frame trap. Of Meta Knight's non-transcendent attacks, Arrows cancel dash attack, lose to glide attack, and will be eaten by the tornado's hitboxes but can hit you from above as your upper half is exposed. The hitboxes of tornado extend to roughly Meta Knight's eye level. Abusing tornado to get past arrow camping is a common strategy, because he can hit you from above you should be careful not to use it when parallel to pit or below him. Tornado's hitbox comes out 8 frames faster than an arrow can be released, if you both hit B at the same time tornado should always win. Drill rush is overpowered by arrows during its opening but near the end will beat them. Aside from being used to force an approach arrows are used to follow up attacks(sometimes near blast zones for a KO), to harass your recovery, and to bait certain actions(such as a tornado if he has the spacing to shield in time, don't tornado him from too far). If you do get shielded make sure to auto cancel, if you retreat and auto cancel I don't think Pit can really do **** about it except shoot more arrows unless he gives chase before tornado has actually ended

Mirror Shield can be used to gimp your recovery if you are reckless with B moves. It will reflect on frame 6 and has super armor on 4 and 5, so it is not difficult or unlikely that you will be punished for stupid use of SL or tornado vs Pit. approach the edge with caution

Pit has 3 jumps, a glide, and an up B that can cover significant distance but diminishes his options greatly. Pit's up B has no hitbox and he can not attack out of it unless he is above the stage. WoI does have a windbox that can push you away if you are close when it comes out. If knocked out of WoI, Pit can not use it again and will die. Some Pit's after WoIing to the other side of the stage will hover out of immediate dair range to try and get past you, WoI has a good ledge snap range and it doesn't take much of an opening. Remember that he can not attack! If he doesn't start moving up immediately just drop down and set up to shuttle loop back to the ledge or nair him. If he glides back you can sometimes run off and reverse shuttle loop him, which should force him into a retardedly bad situation in terms of recovering(i.e. if he survives after this you ****ed up)

Pit is fairly weak from below, his dair takes 8 frames longer than your uair to come out and leaves him lagging afterward. He has multiple jumps so he can stall to some extent but his ability to do so is very weak compared to MK or Kirby. All of Pit's aerials will lose to a well spaced tornado(dair can hit you if he avoids the hitboxes) as well as generally losing to MK's aerials. Pit's uair being the one exception, when above Pit stall and run or tornado(make sure you won't get caught in the opening animation where you can get knocked out). Pit's bair is a deadly killer but can only really hit you if you badly **** up, a lot of Pit's will attempt to air camp you around KO % to get you to whiff an attack and drop with this. Nair can be auto canceled and is sometimes used as an approach, walk away and tornado or shuttle loop out of shield should work against this

Tornado is one of the biggest reasons Meta Knight destroys Pit, if you tornado at the same time as he attempts to defend himself with another attack, he's going to lose most of the time, his only real options are shielding and ftilt(takes 14 frames, must predict tornado for that plus you can tornado and move in with different rhythms to throw off his counter). not sure what moves will consistently cancel tornado but those are the only things that will straight up beat it. dsmash can also beat tornado but that will only work if you're using it at ground level, which is already a no no because elevating it is what makes arrows fail.

Pit is mostly limited to horizontal KO attacks vs MK, except dash attack which can punish certain things so be careful for that. Pit can dash attack you off of an air release however this will NEVER happen on level ground even if you mash up/X/Y, so be aware on CP's. Aside from that Pit doesn't have good set ups for his KO attacks and mostly will rely on you messing up and using unsafe attacks at close range or something similar, play gay at high % especially if you have a stock lead, arrow camping won't do **** if you're already at 150%+

Your best neutral in this matchup is YI, the shy guys will block arrows, it's a small stage, and it limits Pit's recovery options. Smashville or BF would be next best. Strike FD. Quick rundown on CP's

Delfino: You can shark the main stage, Pit has no spike to take advantage of the water too. Pretty good but some transformations are rather large which aids his campyness

Norfair: Standard play really gay and maintain low position and edge invincilbility ****, I wouldn't CP this

Orpheon: Good smallish stage, the right side can limit Pit's return options and you can also get dtilt chains on the wall. Second phase is good for campy characters like this but I'm not sure it would work well for Pit...

Castle Siege: The second transformation is helpful as it is really bad for Pit's camping

Japes: Campy stage, you should live to pretty high % here though.

Rainbow Cruise: Ship portion is pretty good for standard MK gameplay + it has a wall for dtilting, Pit can only really camp the left side. Pit's recovery can be exposed a bit on this stage. Arrows can travel through most of the stage obstacles.

Brinstar: You can hide behind the barriers to prevent arrow camping, and you can circle air camp the platforms. Side blast zones are closer than normal. stage frequently forces opponents into the air where tornado ***** pit's options

Pokemon Stadium: On the standard transform Pit can camp pretty well but you can also avoid him. The lips and underside of this stage can give Pit problems recovering. Pit can also camp the grass transformation pretty well but will have a harder time on the earth, water, and fire transformations. hard to horizontal KO here so dash attack is his best KO move on PS1
 

earla

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
1,422
vs gaw

1. best option to punish turtle? i find if i shield it, i have to wait for the 5th hit before i can up b. perhaps the best way is reading their approach and up b clean no shield.

and up b is risky as gaw can shield - u air it then hard punish you in freefall.

2. best options to punish planking gaws?

3. interestingly, i lost a couple of friendlies vs gaw on lylat. im guessing it may have to do with my
personal inexperience on the stage. anyone know how good gaw is on it vs mk?

4. what are some di tips vs gaw? i generally sdi up turtle and nair. is that correct?

MK VS GAW. i feel you must only up b if you know you are going to hit.
 

Kaffei

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Messages
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If he is planking with nair, run up>shield the nair, and TILT YOUR SHIELD DOWN AND TOWARD HIM so you don't get shield poked. Then GSL oos because GSL hits slightly below as u can see:

 

!!!RM!!!

Smash Journeyman
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Wan. If they go aerial they're either gonna air dodge or Bair. FF GSL can't be Uair'd IIRC unless they read the GSL.

Tew. Grab the ledge and Invincinair right before they reach you or GSL above the ledge right before he grabs it. Watche's Up B has invincibility until frame 13, but he can grab the ledge at frame 15. Thus, since they aren't gonna be perfect planking, you probably have about 5-8 frames to hit them out of Up B.

Tree. Our tilt game is messed with a little on Lylat due to the stage's tilting. It's not devastatingly obvious, but it still hurts our ground game that we rely on. Not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if Watche has some Dash Attack stage spike gayness during certain parts.

For. Double/Triple Quartercircle SDI usually works well for me. You can get a dair off of Turtle if you DI really hard lol, but its not worth losing your thumbs mid-game imo. :p Upwards DI is usually safest against Watche because of that Dtilt and Fair at mid-high percents.

Primarily, MK-Dubs is Ftilt, Dtilt, Utilt(if you wanna beat Dair or something :D), Tornado, and GSL.
 

Kaffei

Smash Hero
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RM's posts never cease to amaze me with all the frame stuff lolz
I wish I could do dat
 

!!!RM!!!

Smash Journeyman
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Imperial Beach, CA
Guess what? Yesterday was Thursday. Today is Friday. Tomorrow is Saturday. And Sunday comes after-----------------------------------------------words.

Edit: Wow. Profanity censor. O__O
 

Exdeath

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I'm trying to find as many cool posts as possible. Like Kaffei's "If he's planking with JAZZ HANDS."
 

Kuro~

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Is there anyway that crouch can be used to avoid shield drop frames? Any way AT ALL? Im doing some research. Answer will be much appreciated.
 

!!!RM!!!

Smash Journeyman
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Nov 2, 2010
Messages
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Imperial Beach, CA
I hate this. I can play the Kirby, G&W, and Diddy matchups regularly against my friends and get accustomed to those matchups, but there are literally no monthlies, smashfests, or anything within 2 hours of where I live where I can play anyone else.

Any advice on how to get more experience in or something? I just don't know what to do. :(
 

Kaffei

Smash Hero
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Play wifi with a lan adapter and only play people from your region so it's not very laggy.
It's really not that bad for practicing match ups.
 

Player-4

See you in 25 years
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I hate this. I can play the Kirby, G&W, and Diddy matchups regularly against my friends and get accustomed to those matchups, but there are literally no monthlies, smashfests, or anything within 2 hours of where I live where I can play anyone else.

Any advice on how to get more experience in or something? I just don't know what to do. :(
Watch vids of people using your character and against the character you wanna know about. You can see how to exploit your opponent's character and maybe even your opponent if you can watch vids of them. Also read up on MU threads, if the MK boards don't have anything then go look at the character boards you want information on, you could also look up their frame data to see what they have that's good and bad and what to expect (hypothetically)
 

!!!RM!!!

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Imperial Beach, CA
Watch vids of people using your character and against the character you wanna know about. You can see how to exploit your opponent's character and maybe even your opponent if you can watch vids of them. Also read up on MU threads, if the MK boards don't have anything then go look at the character boards you want information on, you could also look up their frame data to see what they have that's good and bad and what to expect (hypothetically)
^Pretty much what I've been doing. I can't actually put any of it into practice though.

I'll try the LAN thing I suppose. Thanks! :D
 

etecoon

Smash Hero
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May 31, 2009
Messages
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you can play CPU's a bit. it won't help you read much but it can help you recognize animations faster and work on covering options
 

Player-4

See you in 25 years
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Oh yeah that too, playing CPUs can give you a feel for the weight of the character, what attack links can work, and it can give you a feel for the characters move speed and so on
 

Pitzer

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I actually have a question. Im in a sort of pickle when it comes to Mk vs Marth. I know it sounds bad, but seeing how my other character loses to marth (pit), I think it translated it self into I lose to marth's in general. Maybe cause playing Kadaj makes me upset. I know that my tilts out range him. Any tips on how to smash Di his Side-b? Any advice would be nice also frame data can help to, thanks in regards
 

Exdeath

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I actually have a question. Im in a sort of pickle when it comes to Mk vs Marth. I know it sounds bad, but seeing how my other character loses to marth (pit), I think it translated it self into I lose to marth's in general. Maybe cause playing Kadaj makes me upset. I know that my tilts out range him. Any tips on how to smash Di his Side-b? Any advice would be nice also frame data can help to, thanks in regards
Don't bother trying to Smash DI. Just DI away from Marth and you should automatically DI out before the third hit.
 

C.J.

Smash Master
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If he's playing Kadaj, he probably can't DI out at all. Kadaj is smart enough to do forward up as the first two, which makes it almost impossible to get out of (2nd hit up pulls you back in).
 

JonathantheMeSa

Smash Journeyman
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Marth isn't that great against MK imo.... If you get him in the air and get under him, you win. The only thing he can try to do is use a Dair, which he won't cuz if he misses he'll be in for a huge punishment.

The only tricky thing about Marth that I notice is that you must be careful about stage control. If Marth can get you to where he's edgeguarding you, or where he has you against the end of the stage so you have no where to retreat to, he has a huge advantage. (I usually find this to be the only time I get tippered with a Fsmash or whatever) Try to stay away from those situations.

Nado seems to work well in the MU, just don't get predictable or you'll be eating Fsmashes and counters all day. Also gimping Marth is fairly easy, obviously don't be going for gimps when he is about to Upb to the ledge, but if you hit him far away and he isn't within range to upB to the ledge try to hit with a Dair or two and make it so he can't recover.

Also I have a question about this as well.... If you get Marth in a nado and he pops out, is there anything he can really do to punish nado? For instance, in MK dittos, if you ever get nadoed by the other MK and you pop out you can instantly dair them out of it, which kinda makes nado horrible in that MU, because you usually take more damage nadoing then you give. So is there anything that Marth can instantly do if he pops out of nado? Can he counter? and do any of his aerials flat out beat nado? (not talking about if they hit you dead center in the eye of nado)
 

!!!RM!!!

Smash Journeyman
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Imperial Beach, CA
Along the lines of frame data:
-MK can punish everything on shield with GSL; including dancing blade.
-MK's Dtilt on shield is safe unless Marth predicts it and grabs before he even sees the dtilt.
-Marth's fastest OoS options besides up B and grab are Fair(frame 10) and dancing blade(frame 11).
I'll think of some more.

If Marth's above you his only options to beat tornado are Dair and airdodge. Stay low to the ground and you can juggle him a little. :D

imo MK-Marth is less about directly approaching him, since Marth's pivot grab destroys all, and more about shutting down his options with tilts and GSL just outside of his Fair range.

Mess with him when he recovers by sometimes grabbing the ledge and sometimes waiting on top of it. If you can predict a dancing blade stall then its a gimp.
 
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