wool
Smash Ace
Yeah I'm with xADx on this one.
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Melee Match-Up Chart (NTSC) [Update 008 - 09.09.28]
- Thread starter worldjem7
- Start date
Virusbluemage
Banned via Warnings
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2009
- Messages
- 658
If Cort isn't the best Peach then who is? The only other Peach(like I said before IN AMERICA!! I don't know why you mentioned Armada) who could be considered his equal is Pink Shinobi. There is no way you could say he is definitely not the best Peach. And if Chu Dat were to beat Pink Shinobi using Pikachu would you agree that the list needs to be changed?
wool
Smash Ace
Just because 1 amazing player beat 1 great player doesn't mean that the whole list needs to be changed. The matchup is still the same, the Peach just got outplayed. You obviously don't know much about the character.
idea
Smash Master
oh, okay, didn't catch that. i thought you meant chu dat beats cort, in america =P
i'm not even sure if cort plays anymore. pink shinobi could be better than him just by him not having much practice anymore, if that's true. or he could just plain be better anyway. but as american peaches go, i don't really know all that much.
honestly, as far as i can tell it goes, armada, vwins, bunch of other people =P but, as usual, not enough to data to argue that effectively anyway. i guess there hasn't been much talk about american peaches lately. heh, i haven't thought about them in a while.
and, no, i wouldn't agree then. that would sway me a little but it wouldn't make the decision for me. you'd have to explain why the matchup is not...whatever the people still in charge of this chart have it as right now.
even if chu and cort were the best at those characters, and both knew the matchup, and had played at a bunch of tournaments recently, that still wouldn't = change in matchup numbers (but it would be more convincing than their matches right now).
i'm not even sure if cort plays anymore. pink shinobi could be better than him just by him not having much practice anymore, if that's true. or he could just plain be better anyway. but as american peaches go, i don't really know all that much.
honestly, as far as i can tell it goes, armada, vwins, bunch of other people =P but, as usual, not enough to data to argue that effectively anyway. i guess there hasn't been much talk about american peaches lately. heh, i haven't thought about them in a while.
and, no, i wouldn't agree then. that would sway me a little but it wouldn't make the decision for me. you'd have to explain why the matchup is not...whatever the people still in charge of this chart have it as right now.
even if chu and cort were the best at those characters, and both knew the matchup, and had played at a bunch of tournaments recently, that still wouldn't = change in matchup numbers (but it would be more convincing than their matches right now).
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
Vwins is nearly on the level of Armada, but he's Canadian and not American. Still, he participates in the American smash scene so I guess you could count him...
Virusbluemage
Banned via Warnings
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2009
- Messages
- 658
You're one of those people who will believe whatever society tells him aren't you? Why do you think Peach has the advantage in this match up?
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,565
okay bro
just
stop saying words
this isn't society, you idiot. this is the ****ing smash community. we aren't drilling bull**** morals or ideals into someone's head, we're discussing match-ups and why the argument of "welllllll chu beat cort so pika vs. peach is 50-50," completely disregarding stage choice, player match-up familiarity, and player skill is bull****. shut your mouth & be stupid in another thread.
wool
Smash Ace
(Stolen from N64's Pika Matchup thread. All credit goes to him
)Hard
Peach: Another of the easier 'hard' matchups. Turnips > jolts generally, and her dsmash > yours. She's fairly light, so you have that going for you. In my experience, she's not that easy to uair spike, but more power to you if you can pull it off on her. Just uair spike and ledgehog, her vertical recovery is lacking. Mainly use uair to pop her up, then stay below her. Jolts can do a decent job of screwing up her float cancelling game, but it depends on the height she normally floats at. Watch for her dsmash (duh) and possibly usmash. A tactic I often use is to aerial through her (usually nair or fair) and then turn around as soon at you land and rapid A to push her just far enough away that she can't dsmash you, or at least so that the dsmash will only hit you once with good DI. If she's playing a floatcamping game, mix up your approaches and try to bait aerials. Punish with fsmash or jc usmash. She can do some decent damage up close, so jump in and do what you can to pop her up, then try a little comboing. She's too light for most stuff, but you can still double rising uair to thunder, and uair double jump dair, along with a couple other aerial combos. Try to keep the pressure on her without leaving yourself vulnerable, as if you give her space she'll start pulling turnips and get her float cancelling game going. Fair can be somewhat useful in this fight, it either outspeeds or outprioritizes most of her aerials, and can lead to grab or usmash if she DIs poorly, just don't rely on it. Once she's in the hundreds, dthrow can lead into a usmash (which will kill) if you follow DI. Just watch out if she tries to nair after the throw, where you can just shield it and regrab. Also watch out while recovering, as a decent peach can make this rather difficult. If she's floating just over the edge, try to quick attack over her and to a platform. Otherwise, she'll probably dair->nair or just fair you when you go for the edge, and there's not much you can do about it. If she dsmashes the edge, tech it and upB to edgegrab or onto a platform.
If you rather not read all that, basically Peach is a floaty. Pikachu CANNOT combo floaties at all practically. If you shffl a nair and land infront of Peach, her dsmash can punish you. Her turnips are really annoying and so your jolts aren't as effective in this matchup. Basically a major part of your plan is to BAIT. Which is NEVER in favor of the bait-er (one of the reasons why all low/bottom tiers are Low and bottom).
wool
Smash Ace
Double post...sorry.
SDC
Smash Lord
So pika can't combo floaties/aka mew2? I like the sound of that
wool
Smash Ace
dont have any experience with M2 TBH, but i'm guessing its really hard to combo him?
idea
Smash Master
yeah, i wasn't counting him as American, that was just what i think about peaches overall.
the difference, of course, is that mango's falco beats vwins' peach instead of making him switch off it =P but again, not much of his or armada's peach vs. mango.
and mr. virus, let's lay off the personal attacks. that's just gonna lead to flaming and even more spam.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Europhoria
Smash Lord
Bleh what? Vwins is the best Peach in North America but I don't think he's that close to Armada (I still <3 you Vince)
Edit: I think Cort is retired, but I think him and Vince are really close anyways
JBM falcon08
Smash Master
Why do people forget about PC's Peach?
Peach is his 3rd best character more than likely.
PC>Vwins. PC deserves the title. ROM. nuff said.
Peach is his 3rd best character more than likely.
PC>Vwins. PC deserves the title. ROM. nuff said.
Virus I sent this PM to you but I will tell this to you here, every post that disagrees with you is not CLEARLY flaming you, I asked you for the umpteenth time not to use the report post button every time you're called out on something.
Please try and be more respectful to the people that have to look at this every time you report.
Please try and be more respectful to the people that have to look at this every time you report.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
1 upsmash and thats a stock lol.So pika can't combo floaties/aka mew2? I like the sound of that
SDC
Smash Lord
Are you ****ting me? He's been reporting the people who have called him out on his crap? Wow. Just. Wow. Not even I sank that low back in my idiot days lol.
SDC
Smash Lord
ssshhhhh.....don't tell them that......they think we have the advantage.....lol
Pika's upsmash is ****. Now, I can't remember, is it the the most powerful upsmash? Or does it have the best hitbox? Someone refresh my memory.
wool
Smash Ace
Haha I know that it is the strongest non-charged usmash in the game. Don't know anything else about it though.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,565
it has the most vertical knockback among all upsmashes. as far as hitbox/useability/ko power combined goes, Fox's is definitely better
SDC
Smash Lord
Interesting, Wish mew2 had a **** move
. Just one sakurai!! just one is all i ask!!!*sakurai looks up from hell, and removes satan's **** from his mouth*
"i gave you charged shadowball LOL"
*goes back to sucking satan's ****"
NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO why god
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
PC's Peach has gotten 4-stocked before by M2K in tournament matches. Don't think Vwins' Peach has.
Of course nobody's Peach is on Armada's level, but Vwins is closer to it than mostly any other Peach (the only exceptions I can think of are Cort and PS).
Europhoria
Smash Lord
PC's peach is really good. I think it's probably close to Vince's. There's also the fact that PC mains, or supposedly mains, space animals and is inactive. I dunno how much he used Peach at ROM either, I know he beat Kage with Fox. I thought he only went Peach to fight Shiz
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
PC is retired and doesn't even play anymore so I don't know why we're even mentioning him.
Europhoria
Smash Lord
He might still play for all I know. Even rusty him and Cort still have amazing Peaches
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
PC is amazing he comes and in and our of retirement and STILL top places. I give him tons of credit, even though he might not use the newest metagame techniques he is still so smart and consistent he will always do well.
idea
Smash Master
pc seems less retired than cort =P he's going to rom 2, i believe. and yeah, his peach is really good. if i had to guess i'd say it's a bit below vwins'.
all the old school players are so fun to watch.
all the old school players are so fun to watch.
N64
Smash Champion
Pika would have a difficult time combing M2 if his hitbox wasn't so huge. He's probably one of the middle chars on pika's 'comboability' scale.So pika can't combo floaties/aka mew2? I like the sound of that
Also, i super need to update my guide >_>
SDC
Smash Lord
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
because hes ****ing tight, and some may even call him a friend
Razor
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2005
- Messages
- 265
see, i don't like this new, out-of-10 format. cuz there are definitely matchups in the high tier that are close to even, but aren't. even if it's just 55-45, that signifies that one char has at least some kind of advantage.
and this thread should definitely be stickied
and this thread should definitely be stickied
pockyD
Smash Legend
why isn't 6-4 "close to even" with "some kind of advantage"?
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
because its not quite 60-40, its 55-45 or less (but more than 50-50)
pockyD
Smash Legend
it feels ridiculous to have to beat this dead horse over and over again, but what does 60-40 (and consequently 6-4) mean? doesn't it mean whatever we want it to mean?
the values only have meaning relative to other values; they mean absolutely nothing in a vacuum. if we want 6-4 to mean "close to even with some kind of advantage", then that's what it will be, so long as you apply it consistently across the chart
the values only have meaning relative to other values; they mean absolutely nothing in a vacuum. if we want 6-4 to mean "close to even with some kind of advantage", then that's what it will be, so long as you apply it consistently across the chart
Dorsey
Banned via Warnings
Yeah this is old but I lol'd too hard to not quote it.
Kind of a good question pockyd. There's the actual difference between the ratios then there's the meaning that we've all adopted: By intervals of 5, 50/50 being even and 60/40 being 2 steps away from that.. I think some of the debate over match-ups may be from misinterpretation of the difference between these steps or intervals... or maybe not exactly misinterpretation, just everyone having there own idea of what it means.
It might help to set some kind of standard to what it means but everyone probably wouldn't agree on it. But it kind of sucks choosing between 5 this way or 5 that way. On so many match-ups I consider it to be in between but I have to weigh everything out and choose the better one, even though it's not the accurate representation i'm looking for.
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
The values are based upon the basis that
a) If two players equal in skill were to play 10 matches, this is how many matches each player would win.
b) 5-5 means that they will win an equal amount of matches, and the matchup is relatively even.
lordvaati
Smash Master
reposted to (kind of) answer Pocky's question:
Alphicans
Smash Hero
This method really sucks. The way the brawl boards are doing it is so much better. Rather then having 1 thread for every character and having only a few people inputting at certain times, they have match-up discussions in their own character specific forums meaning that every match-up will be close to the actual ratio because people who actually play the character is inputting. I am sure most of you are aware of that, but I just honestly cannot see this match-up chart being accurate even if the game has been out for as long as time itself. I'd also like to agree with PockyD's comment (surprise surprise I know).