Melee Match Casting

[Vro]

I've been thinking about doing this.

 

[Roneblaster]

vro is the mw coach, his would be legit.

but an idea would be for top level players for each character cast a match after it happened.

 

[Rykard]

Somewhat related to this topic: One of the thing that I think that would be really cool to see would be a show a la older episodes of Cross Counter; or those of you who don't know Cross Counter was this series that was ran by two top SSFIV players where they took matches and analyzed them, pointing out why people did things, thought processes, and so on. Ever since I started following the series on Youtube, I've wanted to see something like this done in the Melee community. If anyone is interested, here's an episode showing how they go about it.

i was actually going to mention this but you beat me to it. it's a pretty good idea for us, but different than what i think the focus of the thread is which i believe is just adding general commentary to matches before they are released with just game audio

 

[Sraigux]

I would totally love some casting! There is definitely a lot I could learn from an experienced caster.

 

[Stratford]

For Tristate, Swiftbass does an awesome job commentating imo. D1 isn't bad either.

Swift commentary is mad good.

 

[Pi]

gimme a good insightful match to look through and i'll do one to have as a base that everyone can critique and stuff

 

[hectohertz]

this would be awesome

 

[HugS™]

gimme a good insightful match to look through and i'll do one to have as a base that everyone can critique and stuff

Well, seeing as how I made this thread, and my games seem to fit the bill for a slower paced game LOL, I can give you a match of mine.

What kind of game would you cast? A close game? A one sided game? A whole set?

 

[JPOBS]

as long as that isn't the only video of that set available, i would support this.

I was a huge Wife fan when i was first starting to learn the game but, bless his soul, his commentary bores me to tears these days because he only says things that are really obvious and elementary. Its great for new players but at this point in my smash career i would rather watch a vid with hype commentary as opposed to "match casting" or wife style commentary.

theres no reason two copies of the same vid couldn't be made tho so its w/e good idea for growing i suppose.

 

[Merkovski]

Its great for new players but at this point in my smash career i would rather watch a vid with hype commentary as opposed to "match casting" or wife style commentary.

theres no reason two copies of the same vid couldn't be made tho so its w/e good idea for growing i suppose.

Agreed. I wouldn't personally benefit from match casting too much because I can already follow "regular" vids, so I prefer vids with hype commentary. That said, match casting would be a great way to expand the community.

What I WOULD find interesting is if the players commentated on their own matches. That way, they can explain not just why they chose a certain move, but whatever else was going on in their head atm (an alternate move choice, timing, specific mind games, etc).

 

[Mokumo]

i think

it would be really cool

to see some day9 esque commentary/analysis of ssbm games. I might even do that myself sometime.

 

[Rubyiris]

The smash community can only benefit by taking a professional approach to casting. A good gateway to interest new players would be to hype up the game, whilst still providing rudimentary knowledge, akin to what Husky and TB do, then delve further into analytical play, until we get the golden ish that is Day9 level commentary.

My god, I'd watch any, and every smash match if it contained commentary on Day9's level.

I want to work on my commentary skills myself, so I'm actually going to begin to try this out and upload videos. People wan to suggest me some matches via PM/AIM? Let me know! I'm going to be very busy with school and unable to actually play, but I want to do my part and keep myself associated with the smash community during my smash hiatus during the next 9-12 months of vocational school, and this would be a good approach to fill that void.

 

[omgwtfToph]

This is a fantastic idea. I figure, the reason this kind of stuff shot Starcraft into the realm of pro gaming, with its sponsorships and stardoms, is because at its core Starcraft is a good game, and a fun one to watch because it's fast and interesting.

Melee is also a good game that is fun to watch. And while I don't think Melee (or any game) will reach the "pro" status that Starcraft has, I don't see anything but positives to doing something like this.

Yeah, a little video editing is probably gonna be essential, not just to put everything together, but also to highlight stuff and slow down/pause footage like lovage was saying.

 

[Rubyiris]

I'm going to make some posts on TeamLiquid and ask for some advice, then post my findings on here.

*Edit.*

Get hype people, Taj has some free time and is very interested in this project and is happy to help. Once we figure out how best to approach this idea, we're going to start putting out videos, and possibly some dual-casts.

 

[Mokumo]

I'm going to make some posts on TeamLiquid and ask for some advice, then post my findings on here.

that would be huge.

I just downloaded a free screen recorder thinking about simply maximizing a youtube video and using the pause/rewind functions to analyze the gameplay. I have a feeling the quality would be pretty bad though. for optimal quality/editing i think having the original .wmv's of the games would help a lot.

 

[Rubyiris]

You can download youtube videos at 640x480 MP4 with minimal loss if the source file doesn't exist anymore. That's probably the best way to approach.

 

[Beat!]

You guys are awesome if you do this.

 

[Walt]

Next time I watch some day9 live commentary I'm gonna take notes on how he does it exactly. His commentary on games he's able to rewind and know what is always going to happen is really good but that's obviously easier.

 

[Rubyiris]

You guys are awesome if you do this.

I'm going to start once I find suitable footage. I want to cast top-tier games, but not necessarily ones with existing commentary. Also, my casts will be more geared towards people who are already have an understanding of smash. I will be targeting low level players aspiring to be better, and high-tier players like myself who are good enough to make it out of pools at national events, but not good enough to place higher than 33rd.

 

[Zodiac]

I believe match casting should be done, the only reason I havent done it is because I didnt smashers would like commentary that wasnt live

 

[Rubyiris]

Here's the proof that you were wrong and should get on that ish! The more support this project can get, the better!

 

[Pi]

Well, seeing as how I made this thread, and my games seem to fit the bill for a slower paced game LOL, I can give you a match of mine.

What kind of game would you cast? A close game? A one sided game? A whole set?

what do you think about your recent match w/ shroomed
i think i might do that one, i'll do a match and then see how that goes might do the set

 

[Kira-]

It's an awesome idea as long as:

1. Someone with GOOD insight and understanding of the game does it. I wouldn't listen to anyone that didn't make it into the bracket at Pound, at the Very least.

2. They have the technical tools to be able to pause, rewind, and replay the match much more slowly at will (as lovage said).

 

[Bones0]

I think the best option would be to have the player playing do the commentary. They are obviously the most qualified in explaining what they were trying to do during the match and what was going through their head. They can also point out things they were watching out for that might not have had any visible impact on the match. It'd basically just turn into a verbal guide on the matchup, which I think would greatly benefit the community.

That concept could even be expanded to include 2 commentators. Just as an example, let's use 3's suggestion of Hugs vs. Shroomed. We'd have one copy of the video with Hugs's commentary, with him pausing/replaying at appropriate points to explain his thought processes, and then the same thing could be done in another video with Shroomed's commentary. I think this sort of dynamic would even be able to help top players as they may be thinking about certain things much differently than other top players and not even realize it because there aren't any direct indicators of what someone is thinking, even if they choose the same course of action.

Obviously the limitations of this is that some players may not feel comfortable explaining all of their thoughts because they would be worried about other players using their commentary to abuse tactics (I disagree this would happen a lot, but it is certainly an understandable worry for someone who wants to keep winning tournaments). There is also the simple fact of getting players to care about doing the commentary and having the tech to do it with.

 

[Pi]

I think the best option would be to have the player playing do the commentary. They are obviously the most qualified in explaining what they were trying to do during the match and what was going through their head. They can also point out things they were watching out for that might not have had any visible impact on the match. It'd basically just turn into a verbal guide on the matchup, which I think would greatly benefit the community.

That concept could even be expanded to include 2 commentators. Just as an example, let's use 3's suggestion of Hugs vs. Shroomed. We'd have one copy of the video with Hugs's commentary, with him pausing/replaying at appropriate points to explain his thought processes, and then the same thing could be done in another video with Shroomed's commentary. I think this sort of dynamic would even be able to help top players as they may be thinking about certain things much differently than other top players and not even realize it because there aren't any direct indicators of what someone is thinking, even if they choose the same course of action.

Obviously the limitations of this is that some players may not feel comfortable explaining all of their thoughts because they would be worried about other players using their commentary to abuse tactics (I disagree this would happen a lot, but it is certainly an understandable worry for someone who wants to keep winning tournaments). There is also the simple fact of getting players to care about doing the commentary and having the tech to do it with.

i agree, self commentary is always the most insightful
but obviously, getting both parties, or even one party, to agree & sit down and do this is the main obstacle

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

1. Someone with GOOD insight and understanding of the game does it. I wouldn't listen to anyone that didn't make it into the bracket at Pound, at the Very least.

I totally disagree with this. There are plenty of amazing players out there, players with great understanding of the game, but they don't place top 50 in the world. While I don't want a noob trying to do this, I don't think it is necessary for them to be at the highest applied level.

 

[Bones0]

I'd be okay with not-so-amazing players commentating, but there should be a thread in Video Discussion created for each match being casted. That way top players that watched it can give their own opinions about what was said, and if there is some discrepancy between the best way to approach a situation, it can be discussed in the thread. I think Kira, like myself, is just worried about inferior advice being given out.

 

[HT F8]

I love this idea. This would be so helpful. A number of times I've found myself re-re-re-watching a match and seeing something I haven't noticed... something small like, idk, player A did a certain thing once or twice in a situation to bait a spotdodge and countered accordingly. I don't always catch something like that since matches are so fast paced.

 

[HugS™]

what do you think about your recent match w/ shroomed
i think i might do that one, i'll do a match and then see how that goes might do the set

I think that'd be a great starter.

It's a 5 round match, a bit more slowpaced, and it was called the best set of the tournament by those who saw it live. Yet it was kinda dismissed as a recording. Perhaps some casting could do it more justice.

BTW, all this talk about no-hype, I think there's definitely room for hype to occur. Less along the lines of yelling and more along the lines of genuine enthusiasm shown by the broadcaster when something amazing happens.

@ Bones - While I think that's a good idea, I don't think it should be the main theme of these casts. Players commenting on their own matches should be more of a special thing rather than a regular offering IMO.

 

[Rubyiris]

It's an awesome idea as long as:

1. Someone with GOOD insight and understanding of the game does it. I wouldn't listen to anyone that didn't make it into the bracket at Pound, at the Very least.

2. They have the technical tools to be able to pause, rewind, and replay the match much more slowly at will (as lovage said).

There are many players who lost in the second and third round of pools who are MORE than capable of giving good insight, and have a good understanding of the game.

The are many MORE players of this caliber whom weren't even AT pound.

@Hugs: I believe there needs to be some sort of caster comparable to Husky. The guy is able to bring in players who don't even play video games, let alone competitive games like Starcraft, and faithfully watch the videos he uploads, just out of sheer entertainment. Even if it's only rudimentary analysis, this is the sort of thing that reaches out to the more casual, and less competitive players

 

[HugS™]

There are many players who lost in the second and third round of pools who are MORE than capable of giving good insight, and have a good understanding of the game.

The are many MORE players of this caliber whom weren't even AT pound.

@Hugs: I believe there needs to be some sort of caster comparable to Husky. The guy is able to bring in players who don't even play video games, let alone competitive games like Starcraft, and faithfully watch the videos he uploads, just out of sheer entertainment. Even if it's only rudimentary analysis, this is the sort of thing that reaches out to the more casual, and less competitive players

LOL I must be psychic Rubyiris, cuz I just mentioned that in the post before yours.

I definitely think an entertaining demeanor is mandatory.

 

[Rubyiris]

LOL I must be psychic Rubyiris, cuz I just mentioned that in the post before yours.

I definitely think an entertaining demeanor is mandatory.

I was mostly saying a caster entirely dedicated to entertainment, whilst providing basic insight into the game, whilst more analytical, but less entertaining individuals get into the nitty gritty for us competitive individuals.

Of course Day9 is the greatest man on earth and entertaining as **** lol. Smash needs day9.

Anyways, I've got a video done. I'm not a very entertaining person, and I still need work with delivery, but I believe I've got nice, entertaining footage, whilst till able to cater to both lower-level, and higher level of play.

Going to upload that ish soon.

 

[Veetaak]

I support the idea.
That's how I get into new games, watching some commentary.
I know that not all matches could be done this way but it would still be awesome =)

 

[Rubyiris]

this is much more than just regular commentary. this is taking an existing video and reuploading it with very analytical commentary. They break the match down, rewind to reiterate points, etc.

 

[tarheeljks]

sounds like a great idea. don't have anything to add wrt casting, but on the topic of expanding the community:

running more amateur/swiss brackets at smaller tournaments seems like a good way to boost participation. i know it can cause logistical problems and that top players may oppose it b/c they have to wait longer to play, but if expansion is a goal then these brackets can accommodate newer players or get casual players more involved in the tourney scene. the learning curve for this game is steep, so making it easier for this set of players to play meaningful matches against each other would be beneficial to growth

 

[Sinji]

Funny match casting= more veiws. Waffles= hype.

 

[Pi]

I think that'd be a great starter.

It's a 5 round match, a bit more slowpaced, and it was called the best set of the tournament by those who saw it live. Yet it was kinda dismissed as a recording. Perhaps some casting could do it more justice.

BTW, all this talk about no-hype, I think there's definitely room for hype to occur. Less along the lines of yelling and more along the lines of genuine enthusiasm shown by the broadcaster when something amazing happens.

@ Bones - While I think that's a good idea, I don't think it should be the main theme of these casts. Players commenting on their own matches should be more of a special thing rather than a regular offering IMO.

I'll get it done when i come back from kickball w/ work peeps

keep in mind that i don't really have any casting experience, or commentating experience (minimal)
but i do think i have a good understanding of what is going on in a match beneath the surface
as well as the tools to edit the video to correctly display what i'm attempting to point out

we'll see how it goes,

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

I LOOOVE this concept, someone actually did this once or twice before on mango vs jman matches, and i thought it was so insightful, and i know tons can learn from it. hearing someone explain melee with video examples is an amazing way to learn, i guarantee that.

problem is we need knowledge heads for this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf4khL5I2gM

 

[UltimateHaxor123]

i like the idea of self-commentary, especially by someone who is really good like mango

i rmbr the match of mango vs shroomed, and mango kept pointing out mistakes/bad habits shroomed made and it was really insightful

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

i like the idea of self-commentary, especially by someone who is really good like mango

i rmbr the match of mango vs shroomed, and mango kept pointing out mistakes/bad habits shroomed made and it was really insightful

we're not aiming at self-commentary here though, we're aiming at someone re-watching a popular/good match, and evaluate it, go back, say who did what wrong, who's capitalizing what, what they should be doing etc.