Melee Match Casting

[Ocho(*8*)]

I LOOOVE this concept, someone actually did this once or twice before on mango vs jman matches, and i thought it was so insightful, and i know tons can learn from it. hearing someone explain melee with video examples is an amazing way to learn, i guarantee that.

problem is we need knowledge heads for this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf4khL5I2gM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf4khL5I2gM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWmI6kJYEW4

^theres the guy who did it before. its mango vvs jman from pound 4 commentated on by james sparrow.

 

[Juggleguy]

I'm a fan of DVD box set commentaries for TV shows where the actors/directors go through a particular episode and offer insight as to how it was produced. The thought that the same thing could be done for Melee matches had crossed my mind as well. I think it's a great idea and would provide just as much to the community as a traditional in-person interview would.

 

[Mizar]

H to the usky husky.
That dudes life is uploading/commentating SC games.

Its alot easier to do with SC2 games since a replay is easily downloaded.
Whereas smashers need to cap, render, send to someone with a good voice and knowledge of the game and he has to talk stuff together.

I don't know if anyone is up for the trouble of doing that.

 

[Mokumo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf4khL5I2gM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWmI6kJYEW4

^theres the guy who did it before. its mango vvs jman from pound 4 commentated on by james sparrow.

this is good, but what we want is super specific analysis. this guy definitely has the right idea though.

in his videos, he's saying "look out for mango doing this, making these decisions, and be sure to check this out too." i want a video that takes a single match and breaks it down into an analysis that is at least three times longer than the game.

a lot like this: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=295057

except i'd like to see beyond what decisions they are making, I want to know why they're making these decisions. noobs like me just see mango ****** everybody and figure that's why he's the best. people that are super good at this game can appreciate mango (and other top tier players) for the sheer brilliance of the tiny decisions they make throughout a game. a lot of people don't notice that.

PS husky is a noob (i still watch him though). diggity for life. HD is good too.

 

[Rubyiris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu45r0fNX1A

did this before going on with my day. It definitely has room for improvement, but I think this is a fairly good example of what people should be looking for.

I explain the dynamics of a relatively unknown match up from both sides, then with each match, I break down what both characters ideally want to do, and what players are doing correct, and they they're doing wrong, as well as pointing out other alternatives, as well as bringing some of my own personal insight. I sound extremely dull and monotonous however, so I'd love some advice as how I can better approach this.

FYI the moments the video seem choppy, those are when fraps is rendering a new video. fraps chops it up into 9 minute segments and I have to rerender everything fraps makes afterward to have one video.

 

[Mokumo]

that's a good start. but of course there's a lot of room for improvement.

i'm thinking about day 9 right now and what he does to make his casts so entertaining. I watch him for hours sometimes lol

The first thing that stands out to me in what he does that you didn't do is use his webcam. that doesn't seem too useful at first, but the change in scenery can make your cast a little more colorful. Adding onto this, i think if you use your webcam you should have your TV with melee on in the background, and maybe you can support your points by playing live during your cast (against a computer or human with no one else playing).

i'm thinking about doing this if this is still getting hyped two months from now, even though im not an elite player. i have no tv or cube right now, though. whatever im in Rome :D

 

[Kanelol]

Best commentary is that reaction color commentary son

get at phil/waffles old school new school first school

 

[Rubyiris]

that's a good start. but of course there's a lot of room for improvement.

i'm thinking about day 9 right now and what he does to make his casts so entertaining. I watch him for hours sometimes lol

The first thing that stands out to me in what he does that you didn't do is use his webcam. that doesn't seem too useful at first, but the change in scenery can make your cast a little more colorful. Adding onto this, i think if you use your webcam you should have your TV with melee on in the background, and maybe you can support your points by playing live during your cast (against a computer or human with no one else playing).

i'm thinking about doing this if this is still getting hyped two months from now, even though im not an elite player. i have no tv or cube right now, though. whatever im in Rome :D

I'm not really sure how effective this will be. I live @ my grandparents house at the moment and I don't have my own copy of melee LOL. My webcam's also attached to my laptop so I'm probably all you're really going to be seeing LOL.

furthermore I'm nt sure my laptop is strong enough to run the webcam, and fraps.

@the reaction comment: That only works for live games. Since we're casting games that already exist, it really doesn't work.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

i personally don't find the webcam stuff necessary, as long as the user is providing good commentary. i havent watched tons of husky but i know he's got a good way with his talking.

like i said on youtube tho, gotta match cast a professional match, people wanna see why pros do what they do, not what ruby or vectorman do lol. you guys may not be making all the right choices, it makes more sense showing why people who are at the top do what they do to be at the top.

 

[Mokumo]

yeah maybe the webcam stuff is unnecessary... i was just getting a little excited lol

 

[Veetaak]

For funnzies:
Get UK peeps to do the shoutcastig cuz it's so epic with their accent, choice of words and what not

For serious bussiness:
Get wife and/or waffle =)

 

[Rubyiris]

i personally don't find the webcam stuff necessary, as long as the user is providing good commentary. i havent watched tons of husky but i know he's got a good way with his talking.

like i said on youtube tho, gotta match cast a professional match, people wanna see why pros do what they do, not what ruby or vectorman do lol. you guys may not be making all the right choices, it makes more sense showing why people who are at the top do what they do to be at the top.

we def. don't make all the right choices, but I think I did a fairly good job of explaining what the best, or alternative, but still good choices were lol.

I'll do a pro match later tho.

 

[Mokumo]

we def. don't make all the right choices, but I think I did a fairly good job of explaining what the best, or alternative, but still good choices were lol.

I'll do a pro match later tho.

what program did you use and where can i find it??

 

[V3ctorMan]

^cool stuff Xander,

on "educational" stuff about Yoshi, sorry guys. My yoshi's not really "educational" per se....

I make rather bad decisions, cuz I have a "pride" issue... I'd rather look "cool" and lose....rather than look "ugly" and win...I'm an "entertainment based player" and im not at Axe's level to be able to do both (entertainment and effectiveness) I'm gettin there tho... and will keep tryin to find my way

@Rubyiris - cool uploads man, get some confidence and speak, you're from AZ.. Home of Vman/Taj <---- we're both pretty loud so ;p join in.. <3 Xander <3

@hugs - nice idea man, nice thread, I for one approve. If anything to help Rubyiris get some hype commentary, I'm sure Me/Taj would try to help out w/this project.

/awesome thread

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

stop caring what others think of you so much

people wanna look so cool infront of other smashers!

 

[V3ctorMan]

^I'm an entertainment based player though.

If i didnt' care what people thought, and people thought I played "gay" not fun to play "or campy" then I'm not doing my job.... I have nothing against these type(s) of players^ but I don't want to be one of them ya know?

I know what you mean, I guess i'm just sayin... ><;

much <3 tho trah! n n

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

haha you're very heartful! As long as you enjoy yourself, i have no reason to say anything otherwise.

just don't play technical/crazy flashy, then get really upset when you lose that's no bueno.

<3

 

[V3ctorMan]

^haha

I completely agree, and nah don't worry i've gotten my fair share of beatings... ><;

Most of AZ works my Yoshi pretty well...I think the only thing I had going for me at Pound was the opposing players knowledge or lack thereof on Yoshi... ><; but still

playing flashy is sooooooooooo fun... and gives my hand cramps... ^^ soooo exhilarating! n_n

 

[Rubyiris]

Vman is the last person on earth to ever complain about anything leading up to his losses. The only thing I ever hear him complaining about is how OTHER people complain.

I might be drunk tonight. Drunk Rubyiris is very loud, and I'll do my best to do a cast drunk. We'll see in about an hour and a half.

@the mods: I'm 21, don't you DARE infract me for saying I'm gettin' drunk. >=[

 

[Tee ay eye]

pick one, mods

Spoiler

i'm 17
rubyiris is my idol
rubyiris is getting drunk
i'm going to get drunk now

Spoiler

i'm 17
i don't know what "drunk" is
i now know what "drunk" is
rubyiris is a bad influence on me
smashboards is an evil website
i will now grow up to be an alcoholic because i was introduced to the concept of alcohol at the tender age of 17

 

[Pi]

I read that as 'i will now grow up to be an alcoholic beverage'

 

[Eggm]

Wow. This is such an amazing idea we should have been doing this for years already, but anyway i'd like to offer a bit of insight as to how it could be done even better by again looking at the starcraft community. The starcraft community is amazing at keeping track of VODS (which are just videos of games for those who do'nt know) and easily making them downloadable by potential casters in a non spoiler format. If we could set something like that up for smash were potential casters could cast unspoiled easily that would make this idea that much better, not that it isn't a great idea already this could just make it even better. We should have some awesome system like team liquid has where you can easily watch/download vods unspoiled integrated right into the website.

But yeah this idea is so totally awesome watching the sc2gg guys casts got me into pro starcraft and i can totally see certain commentators getting popular like they did and attracting more people to our community which is awesome. Nice idea hugs.

 

[Laijin]

I approve of this.

 

[Rubyiris]

pick one, mods

Spoiler

i'm 17
rubyiris is my idol
rubyiris is getting drunk
i'm going to get drunk now

Spoiler

i'm 17
i don't know what "drunk" is
i now know what "drunk" is
rubyiris is a bad influence on me
smashboards is an evil website
i will now grow up to be an alcoholic because i was introduced to the concept of alcohol at the tender age of 17

17 and tender in the same age made me lol.

Also I ended up not getting drunk because i had to walk home and there was no ***kin way I was doing that ish not sober.

buzzed tho so its all good.

<3 you tai.

 

[jetfour]

Forward and Taj commentary would be great. Forward is a very insightful and articulate smasher. Taj is also insightful and provides more entertainment.

Wobbles would be great for analytical discussion if he still lived in AZ.

Axe is great at this game but much better at playing than verbally expressing his thought processes with the game.

I think self commentary on old matches is extremely informative from top players. Scrubs watch and think, "I can (something they think is awesome), why doesn't this pro do that." When a pro explains why they chose to do something instead, the scrubs get a better understanding of efficiency. I think stabbed did a couple of these.

There was a thread where they wrote out an analysis for each match, which is still very useful, but I think it's much easier to watch a match and listen to advice at the same time instead of hopping back and forth between windows to understand what's going on.

 

[Divinokage]

I wouldn't mind trying to self commentate one of my matches if people want me to. It would be a strange experience for sure for me. =p

 

[Melomaniacal]

I like the idea of self-commentary. Really gives insight into the mindset and thought process of the player.

 

[Velox]

I like the idea of self-commentary. Really gives insight into the mindset and thought process of the player.

Mango's sooooo doing this. I need to confirm my theory that the top players are just thoughts racing when they're playing and that it's just natural talent.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

I wouldn't mind trying to self commentate one of my matches if people want me to. It would be a strange experience for sure for me. =p

your accent alone would get you views

 

[Veetaak]

^
+10000
:d

 

[Divinokage]

Lol well then, is there any programs that you would recommend using for doing such things?

 

[Eggm]

Self commentary is awesome, but so is "live" commentary of older matches that were unspoiled for potential commentators we should look into how we could start posting videos in an antispoiler format like teamliquid does to accomplish this I think it could really help the community. I might try a few self commentaries maybe on my set vses lambchops cause even tho DJ nintendo did a great job he said a few things that i was "thinking" that I really wasn't during the set.

Edit : Yeah what kage said.. I would be willing to do it but don't really know how. Some one should write a guide.

Edit 2 : Guys for those of you who don't know what i'm talking about check out this link

http://www.teamliquid.net/vods/

If we had some type of system like this not only would it great for potential casters to be able to commentate unspoiled which would get those awesome live reactions, but it would be great for just us regular fans who view tournament videos regularly. Like I like to watch tournaments in cali and stuff but I usually know who won right away cause i'm clicking the links in a video thread that say gf's wf's so i know that when i'm watching quarters who must have won its still awesome but not as exciting as if they were displayed in a non spoiler format like that.

Note that when you click on the next set in the match you can't tell how many potential sets there are going to be, because of how it is setup we should have something like that and also note how the files for those matches are downloadable right to the right of it. That would be so awesome for potential commentators and just for overall fans of watching smash to be able to watch the matches of a tournament in that anti spoiler format right on smashboards.

 

[Cactuar]

This really is a good idea.

Sounds like something... the MBR could spearhead...

*winkwinkwink*

 

[Rubyiris]

I don't think it should be exclusive to the mbr. Just off the top of my head I can name several players who aren't BR members with the capability of doing this well. I think if I just work on my confidence in my speech I'll be able to provide good, analytical commentaries of the varying levels of play.

My problem is that my knowledge is limited to certain characters, however my general match up knowledge vs OTHER characters is pretty extensive.

I'm going to start producing more commentaries starting today. I'm going to be recasting Dr.PP vs Armada WF of Pound 5, and Axe vs Hungrybox LSF, two sets that I think were extremely close and some minute differences in decision-making could have changed the outcome of the two sets.

 

[Cactuar]

Spearhead =/= excluded to.

 

[Rubyiris]

Sorry that I misunderstood. This is just something I would really not like to see become exclusive. It would be awesome to have ssbm's big names really putting this project out there.

I'll be putting out new videos soon. I'm going to experiment with my confidence by doing this in public.

 

[Bones0]

I liked your video Rubyiris, but I think as a player trying to learn from your commentary, it would be more beneficial to hear what your short-term goals are at certain points during the stocks. I felt like too often you were summarizing what happened, and I was just like "Okay, I realized he parried your nair, but that doesn't help me." You could instead say something before it actually happens like "Right now, I want to approach with a nair, but I have to be careful not to telegraph it so Vman does not anticipate it and react with a parry to nair OOS." So essentially I would recommend explaining thoughts prior to it being shown, and then if you wanted to rewind to explain what you SHOULD have done or what COULD have been done to counter it, you could do that. I feel like this would help make the commentary flow more as I felt like I was constantly trying to "catch up" to your thought processes. No doubt this is difficult because Melee is so fast, and I figured that would be one of the hardest parts of commentating. I look forward to watching some of you future videos!

Hopefully Hugs can keep the OP updated with a list of videos that have been casted, at least until we have enough that they are commonplace.

 

[HugS™]

I'll start updating the OP.

I'll also post this in the MBR Cactuar

I would have, I just didn't want to post it back there right before the place got revamped.

 

[Rubyiris]

I liked your video Rubyiris, but I think as a player trying to learn from your commentary, it would be more beneficial to hear what your short-term goals are at certain points during the stocks. I felt like too often you were summarizing what happened, and I was just like "Okay, I realized he parried your nair, but that doesn't help me." You could instead say something before it actually happens like "Right now, I want to approach with a nair, but I have to be careful not to telegraph it so Vman does not anticipate it and react with a parry to nair OOS." So essentially I would recommend explaining thoughts prior to it being shown, and then if you wanted to rewind to explain what you SHOULD have done or what COULD have been done to counter it, you could do that. I feel like this would help make the commentary flow more as I felt like I was constantly trying to "catch up" to your thought processes. No doubt this is difficult because Melee is so fast, and I figured that would be one of the hardest parts of commentating. I look forward to watching some of you future videos!

Hopefully Hugs can keep the OP updated with a list of videos that have been casted, at least until we have enough that they are commonplace.

Alright, I'll keep this in mind!

I'm currently rendering a more critique-based commentary, looking more for what the players are doing incorrect, rather than what they're doing right, but still highlighting good play. It's a mid-high level game between two solid players rather than top level play. The confidence level is a little higher, but I'm still talking quieter than I really should be, and occasionally tripping over my thoughts.

After this I'm going to return to a more analytical approach as I do Dr. PP vs Armada WF @ Pound 5.

God Is My Rock/Other VGBC members: Contact me if you don't want me using PP vs Armada, since it is your video. ;x

 

[HugS™]

I commented on your video Rubyiris, but I'll say it again here...

Don't fall into the trap of turning your casts into something similar to a high school science lecture. You need to have more enthusiasm. It shouldn't be 100% about learning, unless that's the exact position you're taking on your particular casting style. Either way, enthusiasm and humor should be standard to some degree.

Also, I don't like your idea regarding a critique based commentary. You can point out obvious blunders, nothing wrong with that.

However,

If you dig deep enough, every top player has something to improve on. But pointing out the mistakes of the highest caliber players will only serve to discourage those players who aren't yet at that level. I mean, to hear you tear apart PP's mistakes will sound awful to a newcomer just trying to get his L cancels down. I just don't think that kind of focus is necessary.