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Melbourne Brawl | STIGMA-B for 2010 yes or no?
- Thread starter Jei Jei
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Jei Jei
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2007
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- 2,271
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- Kings Park, Melbourne
- NNID
- Jei_Soul
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- 1564-4103-8935
To be completely honest, I have no idea how or when the cp'ing rules changed from what Attila and Nix are speaking of. I, myself have always believed the rules to be this aswell and only discovered this 'new' way of cp'ing at Vyse's SummerSmash.
I don't necessarily agree with it either (for the same reasons Attila mentioned) but I will look deeper into it and see what to do about that. Just chill with this discussion for now and I will get back to you about it.
Green Greens shouldn't be banned, I actually forgot the reason it was put on the banned list but it does have it's bs parts.
Onette is banned, against the wall on the far left of the stage keeps you almost completely covered and I've vsed certain people (Cao lol) that have abused this.
Green Hill Zone, I don't know, it's really not that bad but one can 'control' the game by hitting that fckin Sonic save-point thing every time and camping underneath it.
And finally, Corneria, a stage with a wall and extreme camping areas. The two reasons I looked for to ban a stage, Corneria has both and for some reason I overlooked it because it seems so nuetral..still being decided.
@X: I need to talk to you regarding this payment you made to the Convent for the April tournament. You're in trouble mister...
I don't necessarily agree with it either (for the same reasons Attila mentioned) but I will look deeper into it and see what to do about that. Just chill with this discussion for now and I will get back to you about it.
Green Greens shouldn't be banned, I actually forgot the reason it was put on the banned list but it does have it's bs parts.
Onette is banned, against the wall on the far left of the stage keeps you almost completely covered and I've vsed certain people (Cao lol) that have abused this.
Green Hill Zone, I don't know, it's really not that bad but one can 'control' the game by hitting that fckin Sonic save-point thing every time and camping underneath it.
And finally, Corneria, a stage with a wall and extreme camping areas. The two reasons I looked for to ban a stage, Corneria has both and for some reason I overlooked it because it seems so nuetral..still being decided.
@X: I need to talk to you regarding this payment you made to the Convent for the April tournament. You're in trouble mister...
@splice: i third lucas and marth. i can adapt to rc if necessary. but id prefer not to have to.
I would assume that Lucas would not be good on RC, i had that in mind.
I did not know you used Marth, though. Still, you can't camp on RC, i don't see a problem with it,
it just gives characters with a fast and good UpB and good airials advantage over characters without those traits, hence it is a good CP against those types of characters.
I'd be happy to see Green Greens back, its loltastic.
I did not know you used Marth, though. Still, you can't camp on RC, i don't see a problem with it,
it just gives characters with a fast and good UpB and good airials advantage over characters without those traits, hence it is a good CP against those types of characters.
I'd be happy to see Green Greens back, its loltastic.
lucas' second jump has no issues navigating rc, and pk fire is good and pushing people back. most projectile spammers are absorbed and cant camp. no real issues with it...
Ok Attila, i'll take your word for it.
Still don't think you want to be fighting a MK or GaW there, but whatevs.
Why do you think RC is should be banned? Olimar Vs MK is practically impossible for the Olimar... So can't you just ban it in your set? Using a characters worst match-up on his worst stage isn't really a good example.
Still don't think you want to be fighting a MK or GaW there, but whatevs.
Why do you think RC is should be banned? Olimar Vs MK is practically impossible for the Olimar... So can't you just ban it in your set? Using a characters worst match-up on his worst stage isn't really a good example.
i never said rc should be banned in general, i said id like to ban the cp for it if my opponent was someone awesome on that stage (mk, pit, etc). but i could only do that if i knew who my opponent was. then i wouldnt have to face my worst matchup on the worst possible stage.
and oli vs mk isnt as bad as youd think, if youre awesome with the pikmin whistle. definately hard, but not impossible.
and oli vs mk isnt as bad as youd think, if youre awesome with the pikmin whistle. definately hard, but not impossible.
Ah ok.
That is a good point.
I guess you could just go out on a limb and ban it, since its one of Snakes bad stages (worst) as well.
If you knew who you were playing, then you could make an assumption i guess.
But yeah, it's a little silly.
If you can beat a MK on RC with Olimar, then you are much, much better than them.
Its one MKs happiest matchups and Olimars saddest, if you win that one match you might as well say
you won the set!
That is a good point.
I guess you could just go out on a limb and ban it, since its one of Snakes bad stages (worst) as well.
If you knew who you were playing, then you could make an assumption i guess.
But yeah, it's a little silly.
If you can beat a MK on RC with Olimar, then you are much, much better than them.
Its one MKs happiest matchups and Olimars saddest, if you win that one match you might as well say
you won the set!
But you could CHANGE your character Attila.
Because as my argument stands, counter picking system 'that way' removes the point of having counterpicking stages at all.
But hell, I don't really see Allycomplaining losing on stages like Rainbow Cruise against GOOD PLAYERS who have a character advantage on Snake on that stage. He PROVES Snake is a TOP TIER character in the COUNTER PICKING SYSTEM that's currently in place.
Change the counterpicking rules... may as well remove counterpicking stages. Because guess what? CP stages are just about the only things that even up match ups THAT ARE DEFINITELY IN THE TOP TIERS FAVOUR ON EVERY OTHER STAGE.
The current CP system is instated to BAN a stage you as a PLAYER are uncomfortable on, which is based on your personal choices (character, etc). I don't see why you wouldnt really be banning RC anyway... Like Tibs does.
Because as my argument stands, counter picking system 'that way' removes the point of having counterpicking stages at all.
But hell, I don't really see Ally
Change the counterpicking rules... may as well remove counterpicking stages. Because guess what? CP stages are just about the only things that even up match ups THAT ARE DEFINITELY IN THE TOP TIERS FAVOUR ON EVERY OTHER STAGE.
The current CP system is instated to BAN a stage you as a PLAYER are uncomfortable on, which is based on your personal choices (character, etc). I don't see why you wouldnt really be banning RC anyway... Like Tibs does.
Dekar289
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2007
- Messages
- 6,306
the supposed 'unfairness' being suggesting is saying that the first random neutral, blind character match decides the entire set with stage and character cps after
which is not true
like i sandbagged against tibs, then cp'd corneria (amazing g and w stage) but he won, no problem
which is not true
like i sandbagged against tibs, then cp'd corneria (amazing g and w stage) but he won, no problem
looking at my wii i can see that my snake gametime stands at 70 hours, and the next highest is my lucas, at 24hrs. im 3 times more experienced with snake than my second most used character. using a character other than snake would be silly 90% of the time.
and for the record, id ban rc 99% of the time anyway. either that or japes. but, like in my last set against you shaya, i wouldnt have banned rc if i knew you were going to choose d3, because characters are more/less able on certain stages, players, on the other hand, are less effected. as a player, i love small stages, like smashville, but if my opponent were a diddy, i would definately ban that stage, because the matchup disallows me to use it properly (far too small and flat against diddy). if i did not know my opponent were going to use diddy, i would probably ban rc or something similar, but then when the stage is chosen my ban actually meant nothing, and im screwed.
ive given up trying to change the rules, at least until the next stigma. but i would like people to at least see where im coming from. and dont compare me to ally cause its a miscomparison; he's worlds above me.
and for the record, id ban rc 99% of the time anyway. either that or japes. but, like in my last set against you shaya, i wouldnt have banned rc if i knew you were going to choose d3, because characters are more/less able on certain stages, players, on the other hand, are less effected. as a player, i love small stages, like smashville, but if my opponent were a diddy, i would definately ban that stage, because the matchup disallows me to use it properly (far too small and flat against diddy). if i did not know my opponent were going to use diddy, i would probably ban rc or something similar, but then when the stage is chosen my ban actually meant nothing, and im screwed.
ive given up trying to change the rules, at least until the next stigma. but i would like people to at least see where im coming from. and dont compare me to ally cause its a miscomparison; he's worlds above me.
tibs7
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2009
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- 2,886
then what does say about your GnW Deks? hahaha jokes <3
How are you screwed?
In no way shape or form are you 'screwed'. You go from having your match up advantage to something close to even, perhaps maybe even SLIGHTLY in your opponent's favour...
I can see why you feel it's completely unfair that you may be better off changing characters, but you still have complete OPTION and choice, and it's only you being stubborn that is putting you at a disadvantage. Human emotion, in other words, is a weakness, and true skill is earnt from learning to overcome such things.
Like, it was stubborn of me to stay Marth against Tibs when I didn't know the match up, when I felt I would have done better (but you NEVER KNOW, I took the gamble, my choices may or may not have caused me to lose, but that's a GOOD THING: competition should be deeper than just character vs character) if I went Wario, or even Falco.
Next time we play Attilta you may go "uh oh, this guy can put my Snake at a match up disadvantage! That's pretty unfair! BUT I CAN OVERCOME IT! I BAN DELFINO! ROAR!!!" Lol, okay, I go Rainbow Cruise anyway, a stage that Dedede does better against Snake on, but not against OTHER characters.
In the case of Snake and D3, the result is the same, in either counter picking situations. It's in other character match ups that counter picking becomes much more important.
I know you want to go FALCO and destroy on Japes; but what's stopping me from going Falco as well? Then there really is no UNFAIRNESS at all, it's a COMPLETELY EVEN MATCH UP AND THE BEST PLAYER WILL WIN.
In no way shape or form are you 'screwed'. You go from having your match up advantage to something close to even, perhaps maybe even SLIGHTLY in your opponent's favour...
I can see why you feel it's completely unfair that you may be better off changing characters, but you still have complete OPTION and choice, and it's only you being stubborn that is putting you at a disadvantage. Human emotion, in other words, is a weakness, and true skill is earnt from learning to overcome such things.
Like, it was stubborn of me to stay Marth against Tibs when I didn't know the match up, when I felt I would have done better (but you NEVER KNOW, I took the gamble, my choices may or may not have caused me to lose, but that's a GOOD THING: competition should be deeper than just character vs character) if I went Wario, or even Falco.
Next time we play Attilta you may go "uh oh, this guy can put my Snake at a match up disadvantage! That's pretty unfair! BUT I CAN OVERCOME IT! I BAN DELFINO! ROAR!!!" Lol, okay, I go Rainbow Cruise anyway, a stage that Dedede does better against Snake on, but not against OTHER characters.
In the case of Snake and D3, the result is the same, in either counter picking situations. It's in other character match ups that counter picking becomes much more important.
I know you want to go FALCO and destroy on Japes; but what's stopping me from going Falco as well? Then there really is no UNFAIRNESS at all, it's a COMPLETELY EVEN MATCH UP AND THE BEST PLAYER WILL WIN.
tedeth
Smash Master
As some might know, I agree with Attila. I think that picking stages first is amazingly stupid. Shaya is a big advocate of it because he is a massive tier *****, but what about everyone else?
If someone plays D3 and MK, MK and falco or Falco and D3, you are guarenteed to be up **** creek unless you have a character in your arsenal that counters them big time. By this I mean playing these already overpowered behemoths on a stage that just makes them even better is unavoidable.
If someone plays D3 and MK, MK and falco or Falco and D3, you are guarenteed to be up **** creek unless you have a character in your arsenal that counters them big time. By this I mean playing these already overpowered behemoths on a stage that just makes them even better is unavoidable.
tibs7
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2009
- Messages
- 2,886
@shaya: marth has the advantage on diddy aswell, you were right on going with marth, just the lack of experience i guess.
and dekar ill admit i did beg you to lose 'cause you're so unbelievably awesome. <3\
EDIT: @jei: maybe you should make a poll with this cp thing yeah.
and dekar ill admit i did beg you to lose 'cause you're so unbelievably awesome. <3\
EDIT: @jei: maybe you should make a poll with this cp thing yeah.
I'm aware, seems a bit bad for me personally though haha
. From what I can gather Marth is meant to be Diddy's worst match up or something?But it's definitely not a match up Marth can play like others, hence the thought of wario or falco because you can continue generic strategy.
Anyway, come to Canberra. If you go I'll probably go FOR SOME REVENGE.
Tedeth, you agree with Attila as you believe it's UNFAIR you can't stay your one character for every match?
tedeth
Smash Master
That is what I am agreeing with.
Nixernator
Smash Ace
Yeah seriously picking stages first is ********, CP a snake with Japes and they 2nd Falco? Lol get *****.
Picking stages 2nd allows for the person to stay away from all of the Lolraped combination's while still giving the loser a pick at a stage they get an advantage out of (unless they're fighting MK, which is a completely different thing).
Picking stages 2nd allows for the person to stay away from all of the Lolraped combination's while still giving the loser a pick at a stage they get an advantage out of (unless they're fighting MK, which is a completely different thing).
TakFR
Smash Lord
Unban Onett please, Yoshi's Island (Melee) isn't banned and that stage is way more broken (Edgegames would know about this =D)
Dekar289
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2007
- Messages
- 6,306
wut.........
TakFR
Smash Lord
yep, well either that or we played on it anyway
C~Dog
Smash Champion
Okay after thinking about it, attila's seems like the best way to do it. JEI I VOTE FOR MASSIVE CHANGES =D
I don't know which I prefer.
I think i like Attila's idea (the one i'm used to) better.
If we use the current one, then the stage ban is completely useless because you don't know what character they will choose.
With the other, they can choose any character, I can go with my character that has the worst match-up with them, and ban their best stage/my worst stage. It is much more reasonable, as far as i can tell.
I think i like Attila's idea (the one i'm used to) better.
If we use the current one, then the stage ban is completely useless because you don't know what character they will choose.
With the other, they can choose any character, I can go with my character that has the worst match-up with them, and ban their best stage/my worst stage. It is much more reasonable, as far as i can tell.
5 people with me so far? i think that at least warrants a poll, jei...
Ledge_g2
Smash Ace
hmm i was for the way we have it now, but now i see good in both. im undecided now.
adultlink18
Smash Cadet
I dont see a problem in the option we used last couple of tourneys othe other option , I just play.
Nixernator
Smash Ace
Ok keep Onett banned and ban Yoshi's island (melee), why the hell is that even legal?
bylim5
Smash Journeyman
I support this. The real rules
a very, very good question... i should start choosing this stage
Nixernator
Smash Ace
Lol don't you try and play on stages no one ever picks Attila? I heard you do from someone but I can't remember who.
me? never... ill almost always choose lylat cruise, cause the backdrop is awesome and its like battlefield but even smaller, and mines are invisible on the platforms :D
almost always choose neutrals, cause im used to them, and snake likes them too. cept sometimes norfair or brinstar or luigis mansaion (im looking at you, projectile spammers), which catch people offguard. thats about as crazy as i go.
but yoshis would be a great snake stage, low as roof, grenades will bounce everywhere and i appears to be autocancel heaven. but its gay.
actually, looking back at that list, im less neutral than i thought i was...
almost always choose neutrals, cause im used to them, and snake likes them too. cept sometimes norfair or brinstar or luigis mansaion (im looking at you, projectile spammers), which catch people offguard. thats about as crazy as i go.
but yoshis would be a great snake stage, low as roof, grenades will bounce everywhere and i appears to be autocancel heaven. but its gay.
actually, looking back at that list, im less neutral than i thought i was...
Tanman
Smash Journeyman
I vote for the new method, though it doesn't matter TOO much for Sonic so long as I ban Japes. To be honest, it was usually taken as a given that the characters would stay the same/be changed, then stage picked, simply out of convenience of the menu orders.
But if I could have one thing, I'd get rid of Yoshi's Island Melee.
But if I could have one thing, I'd get rid of Yoshi's Island Melee.
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