Matchups Chart & Lists - Updated: 29/Oct

[Mota]

Wow great chart.

Alot of good info and effort placed into this, well made.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

Wow Ganon has a 100:0 against Ice Climbers, and impossible on a few high/mid/ and even LOW tiers?

Ganon suxs guys

His matchup with Sheik is also terrible. Yeah, Ganon sucks. And that's why i love to main him.

 

[Rajam]

OP updated:

07-Jul-2009: Ice Climbers 55 Zero Suit Samus; Jigglypuff 35 Wario; King Dedede 50 Snake; Kirby 35 Ice Climbers; Marth 55 Ice Climbers; Toon Link 40 Meta Knight; Zelda 25 Mr. Game & Watch, 30 Meta Knight, Snake, 40 Falco, Peach, Wario, 55 King Dedede, and new thread; Zero Suit Samus 45 Meta Knight, Snake

 

[Terra~]

Oh snap, I'd started working on something similar -_-!

 

[kingcobra9]

this must have taken a very long time

 

[Yonder]

Lol almost all the luigi matchups are horribly off.

I'd have to agree, I mean, Luigi with a 70:30 advantage on Wario? lol. But of course, he'll probably get to changing these off matchups, so it's all good.

 

[B!squick]

The Luigi match up thread wasn't going anywhere last I checked, so there isn't much he can do about it, lol.

 

[Nestec]

The chart is not messed up. It shows what both character boards say about the matchup.

Edit: The Jigglypuff matchup thread was updated.

Oh, I see now. My error. ;P

 

[shadowrock]

Theres a few more updates on the diddykong boards
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=237408

 

[Syde7]

Quick change:

The NEW/UPDATED/CURRENT/WHATEVER ROB MU thread is here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=231033

The other is horribly outdated

Also;
ROBs concede the ZSS MU is to the tune of 30-70
For the largest part we've changed the Snake to 55-45
Pit to 50/50
Olimar to the tune of 45-55 (their adv)


The rest look pretty right on with what we've come up with. Feel free to look through the NEW matchup thread (linked above) to double-check meh.

 

[Terra~]

I'm going to help out Rajam by checking in on Luigi, Zelda, Diddy and ROB boards. Also If any DK, Link, Captain Falcon or Snake users browse the match-up boards...get working!

Edit:
So I've now checked out Luigi, Zelda, Diddy and ROB boards.

Diddy Kong
Falco 45:55
Zero Suit Samus 55:45

R.O.B. As mentionned mostly by Dull Razer
Falco 50:50
Snake 55:45
Pit 50:50
Olimar 45:55
Zero Suit Samus 30:70

Zelda
Mounds of confusion here in regards to Game & Watch, Meta Knight and Snake
No general consensus seems to have been reached.

Luigi
Currently rediscussing Wario. 70:30 is grossly innacurate as the majority of the
board seem to be leaning between 40:60 and 55:45.

Snake
It would seem as if another match-up has been completed
Kirby 60:40
They are currently rediscussing D3, but everyone should just spam them, they're very much behind!

Currently this is how many match-ups remain for each board (This including Pokémon Trainer as a whole AND all 3 pokémon seperately, also this is based off the current chart minus what I checked)

[Snake] 25 -1 = 24 (Kirby hasn't been added to the current chart)
[Donkey Kong] 21
[Link] 19
[Captain Falcon] 17
[Lucario] 16
[Pokémon Trainer] 16
[Falco] 15
[Charizard] 14 *For these 3 it's kind of special but here are the amount seperately*
[Ivysaur] 14
[Squirtle] 14
[Meta Knight] 14
[Bowser] 11
[Ness] 9
[Luigi] 7
[Mario] 7
[Fox] 5
[Game & Watch] 3
[Jigglypuff] 3
[R.O.B.] 3
[Sheik] 3
[Pit] 3
[Toon Link] 3
[Peach] 2
[Zero Suit Samus] 2
[Samus] 2
[Ice Climbers] 1
[Ike] 1
[Zelda] 1 (And it's Link no less!)
[Lucas] 1
[Wario] 1
[Diddy Kong] 1
[Sonic] 1
[Marth] 0
[King Dedede] 0
[Ganon] 0
[Kirby] 0
[Olimar] 0
[Pikachu] 0
[Wolf] 0
[Yoshi] 0

Get to it, those on top! Good job to everyone else. Try and support the other boards and meet a general consensus!

Also, please note that many of the match-ups are ALL done but say "1" because Pokémon Trainer was judged by every Pokémon seperately. In theory, those boards have also finished.

 

[Darknid]

**** matchups are a bigger factor than overall disadvantages IMO if you have an unwinnable, your otherwise good matchups turn to **** usually.

Every board needs updated matchup discussions too.

 

[Syde7]

WCKD- iirc... the links (for some reason) do a LOT of their posting on AiB's link forums. So, you might wanna pull info from there.

 

[Rajam]

WCKD- iirc... the links (for some reason) do a LOT of their posting on AiB's link forums. So, you might wanna pull info from there.

Right, Gates and other members told me that Link matchups should be taken from the AiB forums. The main thread for Link's ratios is from there

---

Thanks a lot for your help on this topic and the updated ratios and threads. Hope someday every white square could be filled

 

[Terra~]

I'll check out AiB for any other info I can get

 

[SuSa]

The chart in the OP of the Snake Matchup's Thread is extremely outdated anyways. I need to update it. <_<

PS:
Snake's just camp with nades and space with ftilt for all matchups. Why do we need a matchup thread? XD

 

[Terra~]

Oh come on SuSa, you can make a LITTLE effort, right?

Also, Link is currently as updated as possibly based off of AiB match-up thread.

 

[Rajam]

OP updated:

13-Jul-2009: Diddy Kong 45 Falco, 55 Zero Suit Samus; Ness 40 Snake; Pit 40 Wario, 50 Pikachu; R.O.B. 30 Zero Suit Samus, 45 Olimar, 50 Pit, 55 Snake, and new thread; Sheik 45 Kirby, 50 Zelda, 55 Pit, Toon Link, 60 Wolf, 80 Fox; Toon Link 50 Marth, Olimar

 

[xDD-Master]

LOL Snake vs. DDD 35-65 xd

Never ! vs. Olimar maybe, but never vs. DDD xD

I know the Snake Thread is slow and old but you can believe that it will be around 50-50 in the new Thread ^^

 

[SuSa]

55:45 Dedede. It's far to stage dependant. If you don't win the first game, it's much harder to win..... I would say 50-50 but then you have to argue whether or not its on FD or if you platform camp or what... theres a lot of differences between what is seen as Snake's best chance.

I believe FD along with ((I believe Candy/Afro/some D3 main who dropped D3)) while others believe it's Smashville or Battlefield.

We're working on that matchup in the background. I made a special group only meant to cover a few matchups... mostly Snake vs the other high tiers that are popular...

 

[Ryusuta]

LOL Snake vs. DDD 35-65 xd

Never ! vs. Olimar maybe, but never vs. DDD xD

I know the Snake Thread is slow and old but you can believe that it will be around 50-50 in the new Thread ^^

Yeah, I agree with that. Unless something absolutely DRASTIC came up in the Snake/DeDeDe matchup that I don't know about, I'd totally call it 55:45.

 

[Gates]

some D3 main who dropped D3

That would be Seibrik.

 

[SuSa]

That would be Seibrik.

Thought so, just didn't want to say the wrong name. <_<

Best Snake counter IMO is Olimar.... then suprisingly, a few of the lower tiers.

Lucas can give Snake a run for his money..... and can actually KO Snake at decent %'s and can avoid being grabbed.... (grab release > ftilt/utilt *****...) The only problem with this is that there are only like 4 good Lucas's I know of.

 

[xDD-Master]

ROB can also give Snake a very hard time. Happy for us, that most Rob Mains dropped him because of MK... if there would be that much Rob Mains like in the beginning then we would have problably a very bad match-up against Rob, not sure, but he is really Anti-Snake :S (I find Robs harder than DDD <,<)

 

[SuSa]

ROB is pretty even...<_<

 

[xDD-Master]

ROB is pretty even...<_<

"Even" is "bad" in case that he is the 2nd best character in the game...

But yeah maybe its 50-50 or 55-45 ROB but it's still very hard for Snake because his usual nade-based-camp-gamestyle is screwed because of the Laz0r <_< (Gyro destroys Mortar Slide... combined with Laz0r it isnt easy for Snake to Approach safly/easy... but I think you already know all of this so you should know how stupid a campy Rob is for Snake XD)

 

[SuSa]

"Even" is "bad" in case that he is the 2nd best character in the game...

But yeah maybe its 50-50 or 55-45 ROB but it's still very hard for Snake because his usual nade-based-camp-gamestyle is screwed because of the Laz0r <_< (Gyro destroys Mortar Slide... combined with Laz0r it isnt easy for Snake to Approach safly/easy... but I think you already know all of this so you should know how stupid a campy Rob is for Snake XD)

*looks at Holy and Ally*

 

[xDD-Master]

If you look at Ally every Snake MU is 60-40 or better XD

It would be more accurate to look into Ultimate Razer vs. Holy or something like that.

 

[smashkng]

I think DDD vs Link is more ****** than shown. Grab= offstage= back air Link's sucky recovery= death for Link. I think it's something like 80/20 Dedede at least

 

[Gates]

After 75:25 ratios really don't matter anyway. It doesn't matter that much if a character has a 25% chance to win or a 15% chance because we'll likely **** them either way.

Also, who cares about Link? Seriously.

 

[phi1ny3]

On the lucario matchups, we've decided that Peach is 60:40 (lucario's favor), and wolf is 50:50.

 

[mountain_tiger]

After 75:25 ratios really don't matter anyway. It doesn't matter that much if a character has a 25% chance to win or a 15% chance because we'll likely **** them either way.

Also, who cares about Link? Seriously.

Yeah, because insulting people who main a specific character is just soooooooooo clever, right? Sure, you're disrespecting all the work they put into his metagame, but who cares because Link sucks?

I'm sorry, but comments like that make me sick!

 

[AvaricePanda]

The Diddy MUs...

MK, IMO, is 50 at worst for us (and it's going to be more solid in the next couple of months when single banana locking becomes more viable). Not everyone agrees though.
Falco is 50 at worst for us for sure (also, you have it on Diddy's line as 45, but on Falco's as 60).
Game and Watch is 60, not 40.
Pikachu is 60, not 70.
Ice Climbers is 50.
R.O.B. is 50 or 55.
Kirby is pending atm, but probably either 45, 50, or 55.
ZSS is 55.
I want to say TL is 45, but I don't know the MU as well as other Diddys, so...
Pit is 50
DK is 55
Peach is pending, but it's either 35 or 40.
Luigi is IMO 40, although most Diddys believe it's 35-40 so it's fine.
Wolf is 50.
Sonic is 55.
Sheik is 55 or 60.

 

[Yonder]

Yeah, because insulting people who main a specific character is just soooooooooo clever, right? Sure, you're disrespecting all the work they put into his metagame, but who cares because Link sucks?

I'm sorry, but comments like that make me sick!

I'd sorta have to agree with this comment, despite my despise for Link lol.

 

[Gates]

I'm not insulting people who put time into advancing the capabilities of their character, but Link is so sparsely played that it really doesn't matter since you'll almost never encounter him in tourney. If nobody played MK I'd say the same thing.

 

[mountain_tiger]

OK, fair enough, but be careful how you word things next time. These things could easily be taken the wrong way.

Anyway, getting back on topic, I've just noticed how horrible Ganondorf's matchups are. I know they'd be bad, since he's bottom on the tier list and all, but come on! Half of his matchups are 20:80 or worse here. Are you sure these aren't being exaggerated slightly?

 

[B!squick]

The Diddy MUs...

MK, IMO, is 50 at worst for us (and it's going to be more solid in the next couple of months when single banana locking becomes more viable). Not everyone agrees though.
Falco is 50 at worst for us for sure (also, you have it on Diddy's line as 45, but on Falco's as 60).
Game and Watch is 60, not 40.
Pikachu is 60, not 70.
Ice Climbers is 50.
R.O.B. is 50 or 55.
Kirby is pending atm, but probably either 45, 50, or 55.
ZSS is 55.
I want to say TL is 45, but I don't know the MU as well as other Diddys, so...
Pit is 50
DK is 55
Peach is pending, but it's either 35 or 40.
Luigi is IMO 40, although most Diddys believe it's 35-40 so it's fine.
Wolf is 50.
Sonic is 55.
Sheik is 55 or 60.

Suggestions to make the above post better:

FULLY READ the OP.

OK, fair enough, but be careful how you word things next time. These things could easily be taken the wrong way.

Anyway, getting back on topic, I've just noticed how horrible Ganondorf's matchups are. I know they'd be bad, since he's bottom on the tier list and all, but come on! Half of his matchups are 20:80 or worse here. Are you sure these aren't being exaggerated slightly?

The dude who was in charge of the match up numbers the first time around, like, always suggested the lowest number. They're redoing it now and taking an average of 10 people.

Which reminds me, Rajam, do you have the new new (not sure how many there have been, I think three or four...) Ganon Match Up topic? I'll go get the link.

EDIT: Nevermind, you already have it. I think they changed the name.

 

[t3h Icy]

According to the chart, ROB is 60-40 vs ICs, and ICs are 60-40 vs ROB.

Hmm?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

OK, fair enough, but be careful how you word things next time. These things could easily be taken the wrong way.

Anyway, getting back on topic, I've just noticed how horrible Ganondorf's matchups are. I know they'd be bad, since he's bottom on the tier list and all, but come on! Half of his matchups are 20:80 or worse here. Are you sure these aren't being exaggerated slightly?

Yes, they're mostly accurate.

@JayDeath: I'd normally take the opinions of others, I have no idea of where you got "I'd suggest the lowest number possible" from. And rediscussing the match-up won't automatically make Ganon's match-ups better. The Ganon:Mario went from 40:60 to 30:70, it dropped.

 

[B!squick]

According to the chart, ROB is 60-40 vs ICs, and ICs are 60-40 vs ROB.

Hmm?

Stop failing so much people, please, the epidemic of silly things being posted in this topic needs to end.

Yes, they're mostly accurate.

@JayDeath: I'd normally take the opinions of others, I have no idea of where you got "I'd suggest the lowest number possible" from. And rediscussing the match-up won't automatically make Ganon's match-ups better. The Ganon:Mario went from 40:60 to 30:70, it dropped.

XD I only meant you had the final say and you're, like, the most anti-Ganon Ganon player ever.

And I personally think Ganon:Mario is only 30:70 if you're playing Boss or Famous. Just like I only consider Samus a bad match up for Bowser if I'm playing Xyro or whatever.