Matchups Chart & Lists - Updated: 29/Oct

[xDD-Master]

No there is only this: http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv183/RajamBop/CharactersRanking-3.jpg ...

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Thanks for compiling this chart and data! :D Very helpful, and is very easy to use! Great work!

And also thanks to each board's contributions, of course .

 

[Gates]

No there is only this: http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv183/RajamBop/CharactersRanking-3.jpg ...

I really don't see a significant difference. He already has the full matchups for characters listed by tier, why would he need a second chart of the same data for characters listed by total amount of points? It's redundant and an unnecessary amount of work for him.

 

[xDD-Master]

Because I prefer so... I have a better overview with this kind of order.

 

[B!squick]

I really don't see a significant difference. He already has the full matchups for characters listed by tier, why would he need a second chart of the same data for characters listed by total amount of points? It's redundant and an unnecessary amount of work for him.

If you're talking about Steeler/Mine/whoever else's suggestion, it's not redundant. The rankings list just has everyone's average sorted out. Though to better see how they all stack up against one another would be awarding points based on who each match up is with, so one character that does okay against MK isn't dragged down by bad match ups against random low tiers. The opposite would be true for someone like Game & Watch who dominates the lower half of the tier list, but generally does poorly against the higher tiers.

All it requires is simple number crunching and... er, however long it took him to do the Match Up Averages Tier List/Rankings.

 

[Gates]

If you're talking about Steeler/Mine, words words words

I'm not. I'm talking about xDD-Master's idea which just seems unnecessary and isn't even remotely like whatever it is you're talking about (I really haven't been reading your posts).

 

[Xebenkeck]

As the more i look at this the more i think Ganon is the worst in the game.

 

[Ryusuta]

Ganon IS the worst in the game. By far. Even the Ganon boards hate Ganon.

 

[Steeler]

Seriously though, he explains right there how he got everyone's position and just separated everyone a la Tier List style. Really it just comes down to how much people bother to read... which sadly continues to be not that much.

well yeah, but noobs aren't going to bother to read that. has the tournament rankings list taught you nothing????

actually ankoku's thread and this thread are really similar, except one is tourney data and the other is matchups.

anyway your points suggestion is exactly what i was thinking. but more like a multiplier for each character, those in the middle are a 1.0 multiplier and then the spread is parabolic from there. or it's a high multiplier at the top and then steeply falls as you get into the middle. i think that's an inverse exponential relationship or something but it's been a while since statistics and calculus.

but yeah whatever

 

[B!squick]

I recognize the terms, but stats and calc was ages ago and who'd have thought that knowledge would be totally useless down the road?

Anyway, yeah, something like what you said.

 

[Rajam]

as dumb as it is, i feel like commenting on this tier list thing

if you are really going to make a solid list based solely on matchups, then you also have to take into account the importance of each matchup. it's a lot more crippling to a character's potential if they are disadvantaged to dedede than if they are disadvantaged to ike. additionally, exceptionally horrible matchups against top characters (like dk vs dedede or fox vs pikachu) have to be accounted for accordingly. each matchup should be weighted somehow, but that would be a difficult process and everything.

anyway tier lists take a LOT of factors into account. i don't think this should be called a tier list, just to avoid confusion. maybe "matchup ratio rankings" or something.

i apologize if i'm just reposting stuff that someone said earlier.

ok, following most of the advices, i just did an actual Match-ups Tier List, and the old one is still there by the name Ranking List. For seeing how important a ratio should be and making ratios against MetaKnight, Snake, etc more important, i took the numbers from: http://http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=214428 and made the ponderators. Please read the first post, there i explain how i weighted every ratio. If you don't understand something please feel free to ask... my english isn't very good (I'm not from an english-speaker country)

Do not.

I repeat do not use the Link matchup thread for your ratios.

D3 absolutely demolishes Link. 1 grab and there goes a stock because WE CANT RECOVER.

Anything you recently updated for Link - remove. I'd much rathers you even use the AiB one over the one here.

The one here is in 'best' scenarios, such as getting a CP against the character or something. I haven't even bothered with the thread because it's that bad.

I was about to suggest using the Link Matchup thread on AiB too since it's more active.

None of the SWF Link matchup threads matter - they're all wrong (mostly).

Use the AiB one.

Done; Link's ratios are from AiB

Could you please make a list that looks like this (It's from Melee make one for Brawl pls):

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa108/worldjem7/meleematchup2.png

Original Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=234220

mmmm i could, but first i'd need every ratio of every matchup, at least from one side, and the second problem is that ratios are still changing quite often... that's why i decide to do not make one right now.... sorry

He already has the rankings list for that reason. Besides, if he changes it he'll probably get a lot of people saying "omg why dis not liek teh tier list" since most people know it better.

lol true; i added the matchup Tier List and i'll still be working in the Ranking List (where no ratio is more important than other)

So, just curious, since we're not done discussing all the matchups yet. When a new matchup ratio is made on our boards (or any board, for that matter), do we come to this thread and report it?

Example:

*somewhere in the future*

"The Link's just finished discussing Wolf. The ratio is ____"

Or do we need not bother?

I check the matchup threads like once every two week at least, so about the ratios it's not that neccessary to tell me.... I'm more worried about when matchup threads are changed, or when they become outdated, when a new one arises, etc.... That info would be very valuable to have, and with that your help would be appreciated

 

[xDD-Master]

mmmm i could, but first i'd need every ratio of every matchup, at least from one side, and the second problem is that ratios are still changing quite often... that's why i decide to do not make one right now.... sorry

Nah it's OK I understand your point, it's enough if you do it when all ratios are complete (and maybe better and more stable ).

 

[B!squick]

Sweet. And are you ready to make the necessary changes when the new tier list comes out? Nice job on the 3rd chart, by the way. I don't really understand how you came up with positions though... :/ But Game & Watch moving down makes sense, so clearly whatever maths you did worked.

my english isn't very good (I'm not from an english-speaker country)

Don't worry. I work in the business of phone surveys, so trust me when I say your English is probably better than most Americans.

 

[GALE 14]

not bad, not bad
it´s really good but why is Link worrier as Jigglypuff

 

[B!squick]

not bad, not bad
it´s really good but why is Link worrier as Jigglypuff

Come again?

 

[.Marik]

Ganon IS the worst in the game. By far. Even the Ganon boards hate Ganon.

Lol it's true. All his matchups are like 30:70 other character's favour and 95:5 Sheik's favour? And look at Ice Climbers. 100-0?

That's pretty sad. No, really. Falcon is such a better character, if people don't realize this, words fail me.

The Tier List discussion threads are pretty active, maybe I could link people here, information looks pretty solid for the most part.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Ganon IS the worst in the game. By far. Even the Ganon boards hate Ganon.

What made you think that the Ganon boards hate Ganon?

Yes, we're all depressed about his match-ups, but we no one would hate a character for that.

 

[Ryusuta]

What made you think that the Ganon boards hate Ganon?

Yes, we're all depressed about his match-ups, but we no one would hate a character for that.

Figure of speech.

 

[Cold Fusion]

Shouldn't this chart receive some remodeling because the tier list was updated?

 

[Morrigan]

The only remodeling it could have is a tier list comparison. (and characters arranged)

 

[B!squick]

The only remodeling it could have is a tier list comparison. (and characters arranged)

A 4th chart? Lol, I wonder he gets tired of making all of these. It's valuable information though and he deserves many internets for his work.

 

[Rajam]

Shouldn't this chart receive some remodeling because the tier list was updated?

??? lol, the tier list changed yesterday at night (or today, depends on what time are you using)... it hasn't been a lot of time if you think... But don't worry, i'll change the positions according to the new tier list for the next chart update

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

This is awesome! I should check out this side of the boards more often. Great Job!

 

[Ich Bin Awesome]

He's a more up-to-date matchup thread for Link, the one you're using is way to outdated.

http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=82514

 

[Ryusuta]

No one can out camp Falco.

Olimar would like to have a word with them.

 

[DanGR]

Changes to Olimar's matchups:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4994173#post4994173

It's in the second post.

I put "_____ to _____" next the some of the matchups. The first of the two is more accurate. Some opposed the first though. Opinions ranged anywhere from the first number to the second.

 

[Rajam]

He's a more up-to-date matchup thread for Link, the one you're using is way to outdated.

http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=82514

That's the one i've been using since a short time; the other two are just for filling empty squares

Changes to Olimar's matchups:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4994173#post4994173

It's in the second post.

I put "_____ to _____" next the some of the matchups. The first of the two is more accurate. Some opposed the first though. Opinions ranged anywhere from the first number to the second.

Thanks; i took the average between both options, but tell me if i should take other ponderation or ratio.

 

[Zeruel21]

Really nice work, bookmarked for quick reference.
Why is there such a massive gap for Snake? Are there just no credible threads about his matchups out there, or is it hard to judge them? Whatever it is, I think most people know he has pretty universal advantages.

Lol at "Chuck Norris" tier.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

This deserves a bump.

 

[Gates]

I just wanted to let you know the status of the Dedede matchup thread.

WE'RE ****ING DONE!

 

[SuSa]

Is it me or did he update the tier list or did I miss his post? lol

-this needs a bump-

 

[Gates]

Yes, he did.

 

[Gates]

Weekly bump.

Also, the proprietor of the Snake matchup thread is saying that he likely won't be able to update it for a long time, so be on the lookout for a new one.

 

[Rajam]

._.

It's hard to find another match-up thread on the snake board, i searched for other topics a time ago and i didnt find anything... well if anyone finds a viable thread, please let me know

 

[Rajam]

OP updated:

30-Jun-2009: Diddy Kong 35 Luigi, 45 Meta Knight, 50 Jigglypuff, Olimar, and new thread; Donkey Kong 35 Olimar, 40 Meta Knight, 45 Ice Climbers, 55 Luigi, and new thread; Ice Climbers 50 Squirtle; Kirby 55 Zelda; Mario 60 Samus; Marth 65 Ike; Wolf new thread

 

[LuigiKing]

Lol almost all the luigi matchups are horribly off.

 

[zeldspazz]

The Zelda boards are rediscussing Zelda's matchups now so theres gonna be a big change in her matchups escpecially vs. high tiers cus Zelda sucks =)

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Wow Ganon has a 100:0 against Ice Climbers, and impossible on a few high/mid/ and even LOW tiers?

Ganon suxs guys

 

[Nestec]

Eh, this chart is really messed up in some places.

Diddy v DK = 40:60

DK v Diddy = 45:55

?????

 

[Cold Fusion]

Eh, this chart is really messed up in some places.

Diddy v DK = 40:60

DK v Diddy = 45:55

?????

The chart is not messed up. It shows what both character boards say about the matchup.

Edit: The Jigglypuff matchup thread was updated.