Match-Up Discussion ~ Final Week Ganon/Falcon/Link >__>

[Crackle]

Next discussion I suggest Ice Climbers to get that out of the way. That'll be a landmark posting for Falco players to decide on whether they NEED a secondary or not... in my opinion.

 

[Hyo]

^I look forward to it because I play IC all the time. +sigh+

 

[nogalicious]

Sorry, one last thing on ZSS. I think she can flip-jump (down+b) out of Falco's chaingrab. However, I found doing the dash attack upsmash cancel pivot grab (phew, mouthful) chain a lot more effective.

edit:

Also, Falco is vulnerable to a ZSS chaingrab in the early percents, which can lead to some massive combos.

And I have a question, when you guys chain ZSS, do you do the walking or running one?

 

[Hyo]

Sorry, one last thing on ZSS. I think she can flip-jump (down+b) out of Falco's chaingrab.

And I have a question, when you guys chain ZSS, do you do the walking or running one?

She can't get out if we time it perfectly, only if we screw up can she flip kick out.
And, I personally walk the CG. There's a list somewhere of characters you should run chain, and I don't remember who is on it. Pikachu I think, but not too many.

However, I found doing the dash attack upsmash cancel pivot grab (phew, mouthful) chain a lot more effective.

and uh, I think you mean BPG (boost pivot grab.) From what I gather, you mixed DACUS and BPG into one name. =p Also, it technically shouldn't be more effective.

 

[Denzi]

Next discussion I suggest Ice Climbers to get that out of the way. That'll be a landmark posting for Falco players to decide on whether they NEED a secondary or not... in my opinion.

If you plan on playing the IC's, then you need a secondary. There's not much we can do to them aside from camp with lasers and IAP, and even then we have to be careful because Nana will take a lot of the laser hits and Blizzard goes right through the Phantasm.

 

[pure_awesome]

Laser camping doesn't work very well against ICs.

But we should save this discussion for when the ICs actually come up. Hopefully next.

 

[Vorguen]

As ZSS Falco is my hardest matchup. It's not as easy as you think to get out of the CG, even mashing B-down. His reflector is one of the few reflectors that actually push the stun-gun laser far enough to hit ZSS again, which can be followed up with a boost smash or grab. ZSS mid-range pressure and camp game is nerfed by Falco's retreating SH lasers and shine, and it's hard to get him up in the air for a kill too. He has good aerials as well, and although maybe not necessarily more capable than ZSS in the air, he can definately keep up with her in the air as well.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

Lets please discuss IC next. falcos hardest matchup

 

[nogalicious]

Originally posted by Hyo
and uh, I think you mean BPG (boost pivot grab.) From what I gather, you mixed DACUS and BPG into one name. =p Also, it technically shouldn't be more effective.

Lol thx. I had a feeling that what I called it was way off.

 

[DEHF]

If you plan on playing the IC's, then you need a secondary. There's not much we can do to them aside from camp with lasers and IAP, and even then we have to be careful because Nana will take a lot of the laser hits and Blizzard goes right through the Phantasm.

I used to think the same way but actually ICs vs. falco actually isn't as bad as people think it's actually not that hard to separate nana and popo the trouble I really have is killing them off quickly plus once they finish the blizzard attack you can hit them with the side b

then again going MK vs. ICs is far more easier

 

[Blistering Speed]

Falco vs Ice Climbers is way overrated in terms of difficulty.

 

[Gishnak]

I used to think the same way but actually ICs vs. falco actually isn't as bad as people think it's actually not that hard to separate nana and popo the trouble I really have is killing them off quickly plus once they finish the blizzard attack you can hit them with the side b

then again going MK vs. ICs is far more easier

IE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbLZu74I39g
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ykHwrSAXys&feature=related

 

[Denzi]

once they finish the blizzard attack you can hit them with the side b

That actually depends on how they Blizzard. if they do it like this (around 2:46 in the vid), I'm not sure you can.

 

[Hyo]

I see a 55:45 matchup on Lucario, but no thread. How was this determined?

 

[Denzi]

I see a 55:45 matchup on Lucario, but no thread. How was this determined?

The chart is VERY OLD. So I'm not exactly sure.

 

[AvoiD]

I suggest working on Sonic's match-up next. One of the toughest imo.

 

[Teran]

I suggest working on Sonic's match-up next. One of the toughest imo.

Yeah, Sonic is really hard to study from an on paper perspective. Oh well, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

 

[Hitman JT]

i'm pretty sure Falco goes even with or has the advantage on ROB...I use him to CP ROBs all the time and don't have too much trouble...

 

[pure_awesome]

I always chuckle to myself when people say that Sonic loses to everyone's dtilt since Falco doesn't have a Dtilt.

Zing!

 

[AvoiD]

Truth, Falco get's gimped way to easy by ROB.

Which gives him most of the game on flat stages.

Disadvantage goes well ;o.

 

[RickShaw626]

i havent found Rob that hard of a matchup. Its true he can easily gimp falco, but falco can avoid gimping situations.

 

[Vlade]

No. Falco definitely does not have the advantage against ROB.

IMO Falco vs ROB is the most boring match-up ever (except for falco dittos).

 

[Hyo]

So when's the next "week" going to be posted? It's been a while..

 

[DEHF]

That actually depends on how they Blizzard. if they do it like this (around 2:46 in the vid), I'm not sure you can.

if they do that then you could full jump behind then and bair which will hit the ice climber doing the blizzard

 

[pure_awesome]

Assuming the Ice Climbers don't see Falco approaching, jumping over their Blizzard, and kicking them in the head, then yes, you could do that

I vote that we just start talking about ICs and Blad can change it when he gets here.

 

[Vorguen]

Ice Climbers are tough for Falco. Nana blocking lasers and Chaingrab not working is a pain lol. Good thing I hate playing as Falco anyway, lol.

 

[Hitman JT]

I don't have trouble avoiding ROBs gimping skillz.....
and Falco dittos are only boring when both players are CG whores. lol :$

 

[AndrewCarlson]

Is Kirby really that bad for Falco? Their boards have it as only a 60:40 advantage for Kirby.

 

[ftl]

Is Kirby really that bad for Falco? Their boards have it as only a 60:40 advantage for Kirby.

Well, according to the first post in this thread, we have it as 65-35 for kirby.

A difference of 5... not really worth arguing over much, IMO.

 

[pure_awesome]

Kirby's got a chaingrab on Falco that's decently painful and his Dair > Our Recovery.

So yeah. I agree with the Kirby boards that it's 60:40 and not 65:35, since we do such an effective job of shutting down Kirby's approaches. But hey, not that big a difference.

 

[hyperhopper]

can you just tell me one thing, who is falcos worst matchup, and at the chart at the beginning, are falco's numbers on the left or right?

 

[Hyo]

can you just tell me one thing, who is falcos worst matchup, and at the chart at the beginning, are falco's numbers on the left or right?

Many people find it to be the Ice Climbers (i.e. the "hopeless" matchup.) Other worst matchups include Kirby. The first numbers are Falco's, but that chart is outdated. I would fix it in my spare time, but I can't locate the new chart that people have made for matchups, and Blad01 isn't changing it.

 

[M15t3R E]

If you don't mind me asking, why does it say on the chart in the OP that Falco goes even with Ice Climbers and Meta Knight?

I thought it was agreed upon that he loses miserably to both.

 

[ftl]

If you don't mind me asking, why does it say on the chart in the OP that Falco goes even with Ice Climbers and Meta Knight?

I thought it was agreed upon that he loses miserably to both.

Because the chart is old and unupdated.

Also, while it has been concluded that ICs have a significant advantage, the latest thoughts on MK are that it's near even, and not a 'miserable loss' by any means.

 

[yellowroy]

Where is the King Dedede discussion?

I think I'm going to use Falco for him.

 

[Hyo]

Where is the King Dedede discussion?

I think I'm going to use Falco for him.

The thread seems to be lost in cyber space, but go for it: Falco is a great choice to take down King Dedede.

For one, D's giant size makes him CG fodder. CG, CG, then spike him off the screen for damage. This gives you tons of damage off the bat.

His Waddle Dees aren't too much of an issue; lasers stop them in the air. However, this means you can't camp him easily either. To over come this, IAP to a grab, jab, or smash of some kind during the lag of his toss. Falco's speed is his edge in the match.

Also, his recovery is very predictable; bair it, or dair it if you can. If you can't just laser it and he has to repeat. If you get knocked off, try your best to sweetspot the ledge. His bair will beat your phantasm, and his dees are annoying. Firebird is suicide.

His bair is somewhat of an issue, but if he's approaching with it then use lasers. He can't toss dees and bair at the same time, so you have your bases covered.

To conclude, play campy when he plays aggressive and be aggressive when he's playing campy.

 

[Jupz]

Thats basically it, I use King Dedede so I can confirm this works Only problem is Dedede's ftilt.

 

[GimR]

Why do you guys have G&W as a bad match up for Falco. he's so easy to punish. I'm just saying as a G&W and falco main, falco is better and can beat him pretty hard.

 

[Denzi]

Why do you guys have G&W as a bad match up for Falco. he's so easy to punish. I'm just saying as a G&W and falco main, falco is better and can beat him pretty hard.

Sorry for the size change, but I'm hoping by making the words bigger we'll get less of this question.

The match-up chart is old and out of date.

However, most of the Falco board "regulars" know around what the match-ups are, so don't hesitate to ask us if you have any questions. Now seriously,

Don't rely on the match-up chart.

 

[Blad01]

Yeah, I'm not home right now, I will update the chart in a week or so.

Please rely on match-ups ratios :

- Falco - G&W : 40 - 60 (may change to 45 - 55)
- Falco - Kirby : 35 - 65 (may change to 40 - 60)
- Ice Climbers : 40 - 60 (used to be 50 - 50)