Match-Up Discussion ~ Final Week Ganon/Falcon/Link >__>

[Hyo]

Why do you guys have G&W as a bad match up for Falco. he's so easy to punish. I'm just saying as a G&W and falco main, falco is better and can beat him pretty hard.

Granted, Falco is "better" (he's 3rd on tier list), but that doesn't mean he can beat G&W "pretty hard"

For one, the bucket is a psychological barrier for most Falcos. If you SHDL and he SHbuckets, then he's got a 2 loaded bucket right there. If you're like most, you'll repeat SHL or SHDL out of habit and boom. Bucket full.

You can spend your time camping and dealing damage, but G&W is very effective at doing that. Even more, the bucket deals enormous damage all at once. Furthermore, the bair. Oh the bair. It hurts so much. Fair isn't any better, and dair is a pain. Uair is really bad too because Falco can only really dair down at GW, and he can just uair again. GW in the air is just a pain.

Falco has trouble killing, and luckily GW is light. Still, the bucket cancel does make it hard(er) to kill him, and GW does not have this issue. So although Falco may play better and be safer, You'd have to make almost no mistakes against G&W in order to win, while he can make many mistakes and win with his broken smashes/aerials.

6:4

 

[Vlade]

I'd say 55:45 game and watch's favour.

It's not a **** match-up for either character.

 

[Timbers]

Luc boards are discussing luc vs. falco matchup.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221578

 

[Denzi]

Luc boards are discussing luc vs. falco matchup.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221578

Lucario, not Lucas. I'll be over sometime to discuss.

 

[BleachigoZX]

We should discuss Pikachu.

If not Lucario.

 

[superglucose]

Is there a thread where the ROB matchup was discussed? I'd like to learn more about that one.

 

[Denzi]

Is there a thread where the ROB matchup was discussed? I'd like to learn more about that one.

I'm pretty sure there wasn't. I'm also pretty sure it's a good idea for Blad01 to make one.

 

[Vlade]

^ yes please!

 

[Blad01]

Ok, I'm gonna make a thread if there isn't for every character... But the match-up was definitly already discussed in this thread

 

[Denzi]

Ok, I'm gonna make a thread if there isn't for every character... But the match-up was definitly already discussed in this thread

I'm pretty sure we only discussed it in the FBR and just posted our results in this thread.

 

[YUNq PHR3$H]

Metaknights a monster! HE IS the nightmare of brawl!!!

True...but there is a way us ''falco's'' can turn his darkness into some light

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Could some of you guys come over to the Lucario match up boards and say a few words on the Lucario v Falco match up? The discussion has kinda slowed a bit, to the point where things are almost wrapped up... maybe you can contribute a little with us if you're not busy?

 

[Teran]

Wow, haven't posted here in ages, but I just caught wind of this Pika CG phenomenon...

We seriously need to re-evaluate that matchup now. T__T

This... does not look promising for Falco

 

[Denzi]

Wow, haven't posted here in ages, but I just caught wind of this Pika CG phenomenon...

We seriously need to re-evaluate that matchup now. T__T

This... does not look promising for Falco

Wow, nice to see you back on the Falco boards. And the only thing we can discuss in regards to Pika right now is all theory, we'll actually need some Falco vs Pika matches before we can properly evaluate it.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

what about discussing the diddy matchup, hes an up and rising character and people will be playing him alot, the old discussion is dating way back when he was a different character. the pika cg is being discussed in another thread, so...

 

[VietGeek]

For any available Falcos with nothing better to do, could you rediscuss Toon Link...with us Toon Link mains? lol

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187912

Thanks. ignore all the 2008 posts, as I'm reusing the original thread.

 

[ShadowZero1]

Little mistake in the matchup number?

> Current : Week #22 : Peach <

1. MetaKnight - 50/50
2. Snake - 50/50 or 45/55
3. Game & Watch - 30/70 or 35/65 40/60
4. King Dedede - 60/40
5. ROB - 40/60
6. Marth - 40/60
7. Wario - 50/50
8. Lucario - 55/45
9. Donkey Kong - 60/40
10. Diddy Kong - 60/40
11. Ice Climbers - 40/60
12. Pikachu - 50/50
13. Kirby - 35/65
14. Pit - 55/45
15. Wolf - 60/40
16. Toon Link - 60/40
17. Olimar - 50/50
18. Zelda - 50-50 or 60/40
19. Fox - 60/40
20. Yoshi - 60/40
22. Peach - 55/45

I think you are missing ZSS match up? Since its week 22 and you only have 21 match ups on the list =p

 

[ftl]

So should we move on to another one? Or revisit Pika or Wario given new chaingrabs? Been on peach for a while

 

[Vlade]

Pika match-up isn't unwinnable.

I haven't versed a wario that's been using the chaingrab yet though.

Oh, and I think we should have summaries for all the match-ups as well, I wouldn't mind writing some up I guess.

 

[Dekillsage]

Wario has a chaingrab? Do tell

 

[Vlade]

Dthrow > buffered turnaround regrab

Works from 52%-100% or something like that.

 

[Rubyiris]

How the hell is Pikachu only a 50/50. He has near o to deaths on Falco, is hardly affected by Lasers, and can't be CGed very well/at all.

 

[ftl]

That hasn't been updated since before the CG was discovered.

 

[Jman77]

I think we should discuss wario first. He is quickly becoming a popular tournament threat.

 

[Nyjin]

I believe DEHF has the most comprehensive match-up information on Wario, having played Fiction countless times. Personally, I haven't played any skilled warios offline (I've played Fiction and bassem on Wi-Fi but that hardly counts). All I know about the matchup, honestly, is...

In the Air: You will most likely be in the air the majority of the fight, as Wario dominates the air. Knowing how and when to use B-air is crucial, as it's the most effective way to kill Wario in this match-up. The rest of his aerials are used to adapt to the situation:

N-air: Merely a mix-up for bair most of the time, as it has low priority compared to Wario's aerials.

D-air: Used after the chaingrab and if you happen to be above Wario (Obviously...). Useful for getting Wario out of his Bike and Neutral B (Bite).

B-air: Most useful for it's priority, length of hitboxes, and killing power. Full-hop B-airs are best.

U-air: If you manage to get Wario high-up in the air, use this as a kill move. Nothing different than other matchups.

On the Ground:

Jabs: Use these to get Wario back on the ground as he's slightly above you or trying to jump. Trying to keep Wario on the ground as much as possible is key to this matchup, so jabs are very important.

Tilts: Not very useful, mainly for mix-ups with jabs/grabs.

Grabs: Getting a chaingrab from 0-60% is very helpful in this match-up if you can manage it. If you spike him off the edge, you can easily take a stock by reading his Bike recovery correctly. Other than the chaingrab, Jab-grabs and grabs by themselves will help you defeat Wario on the ground.

More to come later...(First time really posting on these boards...).

 

[Notra]

ey how do i play diddy right?

 

[Teran]

ey how do i play diddy right?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203163&highlight=Match

If you can't get anything out of that, just keep playing Diddy until you find a way. Experience is your best teacher.

Keep in mind you should get a lot out of that thread.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Hey Falco's. We're discussing you at the Peach Boards

Here's the link
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226354

I really want to get this sorted as there's been a lot of controversy over this match up...please for the love of bread (if you guys are still obssesed about it) keep it civil if you post. I'm sick to death of this match up and I'm very stuck on what to write up since the best Falco I've fought was Teran and it was on Wi Fi xD So I need to think carefully before making a final judgement

 

[Teran]

I'm sick to death of this match up and I'm very stuck on what to write up since the best Falco I've fought was Teran and it was on Wi Fi xD So I need to think carefully before making a final judgement

You mean ONLY Falco right?
Lol I see what I can contribute, I fought my fair share of decent Peaches IRL.

 

[Nyjin]

Seems Dark.pch doesn't like me very much. Go to Peach's match-up thread, good information for Falcos there.

I posted a few things.

 

[PhantomX]

Most of the Wario players haven't bothered to learn the CG, it's a bit difficult to do since you have to buffer both a turn around and a grab within 10 frames and do it repeatedly.

 

[Teran]

Most of the Wario players haven't bothered to learn the CG, it's a bit difficult to do since you have to buffer both a turn around and a grab within 10 frames and do it repeatedly.

They'll bother to learn and implement it eventually, so we can't rest easy on that assumption.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Hey Falco boards, since most of the Link mains left for AiB the few Link mains want to talk about how much you **** us.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=231077

I play both characters so I'll help when I can.

 

[Denzi]

Sure, I'll help as soon as I can.

 

[pure_awesome]

They'll bother to learn and implement it eventually, so we can't rest easy on that assumption.

It's probably not going to be learned for a while, since Falco is so underused now. I also think Wario ***** Falco, so it's not like they need it.

 

[tmntrules2003]

maybe its because i dont really play anyone that plays as Wario but ive never realy been owned by one but like i said i dont really play anyone thats good with wario.

 

[Blad01]

Well I've played Bjay's and Glutonny's Wario. (Glutonny is 1st atm). And that was always down to last stock high %...

 

[mr.fizwidget]

in the wario matchup, the chaingrab might as well be non existent because he is near impossible to grab. his arial movement is too good. i find it better to play straight up for the whole match(obviously if you get a grab when he is lower then 40 take advantage of it)

 

[Blad01]

Match-ups updated, look at them and tell me if you still agree.

Let's moving to an other character.

 

[_clinton]

ATTN fellow fighters who prefer the air and have a fetish for bread, please chat in this thread about what so and so has on this character who has a thing for steak and also enjoys the air.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=229697

This thread is just about what positive aspects a character may have on in this case...Ness in a match...and what Ness could do to get around it overall...