Match-Up Discussion ~ Final Week Ganon/Falcon/Link >__>

[BleachigoZX]

We can phantasm, plus the CG is hard to do consistantly.

But it does make it hard for Falco regardless.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

We can phantasm, plus the CG is hard to do consistantly.

But it does make it hard for Falco regardless.

We should assume top level play

 

[BleachigoZX]

Meh, I know, I posted that without thinking.


But still IC shouldn't be able to grab us, we have no reason being that close anyway.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Meh, I know, I posted that without thinking.


But still IC shouldn't be able to grab us, we have no reason being that close anyway.

IC closes in on us, we try to get away with phantasm, blizzard catches us, we die

 

[BleachigoZX]

Short Hop Phantasm Cancel-2 and Rolling.
(^Not IAP^)
Do they get around Blizzard?

Also we should look into the invincibility of a Phantasm to see how much invincibility we have. (1/3 ish, but is that enough?)

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Short Hop Phantasm Cancel-2 and Rolling.
(^Not IAP^)
Do they get around Blizzard?

Also we should look into the invincibility of a Phantasm to see how much invincibility we have. (1/3 ish, but is that enough?)

Not quite in my opinion, often they blizzard 2 ways if they know about inviniciblity or they just respace themselves.

Death is inevitable

 

[BleachigoZX]

Bah, screw the Ice Climbers!!

I secondary Wario, but have actually never used him in tourney simply because no one in NJ uses IC.

So Wario is what I use, but Falco will find a way to win.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Bah, screw the Ice Climbers!!

I secondary Wario, but have actually never used him in tourney simply because no one in NJ uses IC.

So Wario is what I use, but Falco will find a way to win.

Well I use ZSS, and there's only one IC in holland, and I never played him

Care train

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Even if it's an "easy" matchup, it should still be discussed just to share general knowledge, because knowledge is power, ya know?

 

[Emperor Time]

We'll eventually revisit older matchups right?

I see a lot of other boards doing it and it makes me feel like we're lagging behind :/

 

[BleachigoZX]

We are behind on a lot.

I just don't feel like I have the right to revise things, though that is why I'm not making any thread.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Shouldn't we keep on doing new matchups beside rediscussing?

I'd like to discuss sonic, seeing as he raised so much

 

[PoweredVolt]

Yeah, let's talk Sonic. I always have trouble vs him regardless of the fact that I can laser his Spin attacks.

 

[Teran]

The next in line is Ness.
Follow the system.

Also, if you really want, I'll make a thread relatively soon, or make it yourself, if you're so ****ed eager.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Yeah, let's talk Sonic. I always have trouble vs him regardless of the fact that I can laser his Spin attacks.

I think Sonic would be kinda even on Falco, but Falco may have a 60:40 advantage.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Yeah... A lot of people seem to think that it's 60-40 for Sonic. Which reminds me, are the dicussions of Pikachu and Sonic pretty much over or are they just dead? Either way I believe we should move onto the next person since most have agreed it's 60-40 for Sonic and pikachu we seem to think is not a soft counter (60-40) all the way to a hard counter (70-30).

Also Pikachu was need to be redicussed because of the new developments. It's no longer a threat to ignore.

Anyway, I suppose ness is next in line.

 

[IrisKong]

...LuLz this matchup chart is soooooo outdated.

If ness is next up, I guess I will put my input. This needs to get done and changed...ice climbers at 50/50..HA

Ness is very easy for Falco, anything that Ness would use is either easily avoided or not match breaking.

PK Fire is way slow and can be shined.

Absorb is easily punished and doesn\t hurt people who touch it like Lucas' does. Run around shooting lazers and they will absorb, then fall right in front of him and go for the chain grab.

Dair off the level will rarely hit Falco because all smart Falcos recover with phantasm.

Ness' recovery is ridiculously easy to gimp with Falco. if they are above or level with the stage, shoot them with lazers to slowly make them fall under the stage, the will either take the hits or try to absorb, either way they will fall lower. If they are under the stage and try and recover, just fall on the PK Thunder or Shine it and hes done.

its easily in Falcos favor, im just not sure by how much.

 

[Uffe]

...LuLz this matchup chart is soooooo outdated.

If ness is next up, I guess I will put my input. This needs to get done and changed...ice climbers at 50/50..HA

Ness is very easy for Falco, anything that Ness would use is either easily avoided or not match breaking.

PK Fire is way slow and can be shined.

Absorb is easily punished and doesn\t hurt people who touch it like Lucas' does. Run around shooting lazers and they will absorb, then fall right in front of him and go for the chain grab.

Dair off the level will rarely hit Falco because all smart Falcos recover with phantasm.

Ness' recovery is ridiculously easy to gimp with Falco. if they are above or level with the stage, shoot them with lazers to slowly make them fall under the stage, the will either take the hits or try to absorb, either way they will fall lower. If they are under the stage and try and recover, just fall on the PK Thunder or Shine it and hes done.

its easily in Falcos favor, im just not sure by how much.

If it's easily avoided, then the Ness' you're fighting probably suck. And as a Ness main I know never to use my PSI Magnet when Falco shoots his lasers. All you have to do is duck. As for CGing, can you guys ever rely on something like your skill? As for Phantasm, you're basically screwed if your only option is your Fire Bird.

As for falling on Ness' PKT, that's ridiculous. If that were always the case, then there would be no point in trying to recover. Do you forget that Ness has a second jump? Another thing is that usually when people try to gimp Ness, they get punished by his PKT2. It may be in Falco's favor, which I wouldn't doubt, but what you wrote is easier said than done. So please, avoid making up theories and play a good Ness.

 

[IrisKong]

If it's easily avoided, then the Ness' you're fighting probably suck. And as a Ness main I know never to use my PSI Magnet when Falco shoots his lasers. All you have to do is duck. As for CGing, can you guys ever rely on something like your skill? As for Phantasm, you're basically screwed if your only option is your Fire Bird.

As for falling on Ness' PKT, that's ridiculous. If that were always the case, then there would be no point in trying to recover. Do you forget that Ness has a second jump? Another thing is that usually when people try to gimp Ness, they get punished by his PKT2. It may be in Falco's favor, which I wouldn't doubt, but what you wrote is easier said than done. So please, avoid making up theories and play a good Ness.

K... go ahead and duck and you will still probably get punished.

CGing is part of the game, and every player thats uses a character that can CG does, get over it.

As for firebird, yea your screwed if you have to use that to recover, it doesnt matter who you are playing. but most falcos try there best to not be put into that situation.

And I jump on NESS' PKT all the time, not Lucas' because its actually difficult to punish unlike Ness'

Ness does have a 2nd jump, and you will be getting a Dair when you use it.

If falco is getting hit with a PKT2 when trying to gimp him its his own fault.

Either way we agree its in falcos favor. Care to say why you think that if you disagree with what I said?

 

[Uffe]

K... go ahead and duck and you will still probably get punished.

CGing is part of the game, and every player thats uses a character that can CG does, get over it.

As for firebird, yea your screwed if you have to use that to recover, it doesnt matter who you are playing. but most falcos try there best to not be put into that situation.

And I jump on NESS' PKT all the time, not Lucas' because its actually difficult to punish unlike Ness'

Ness does have a 2nd jump, and you will be getting a Dair when you use it.

If falco is getting hit with a PKT2 when trying to gimp him its his own fault.

Either way we agree its in falcos favor. Care to say why you think that if you disagree with what I said?

Wow. Okay, there you go again. Falco fires his laser, Ness ducks. You either have the option of going over there with any other attack or grabbing. However, don't expect us not to know that you can use your Phantasm on us and don't think we don't see you coming close with SH > Lasers, either. We can block as well as spotdodge. On to our recovery.

You say that if your only option is to use your Fire Bird, you try your best not to get spiked or hit at all. You say that "most" Falco's try there best not to be put into that situation. What makes you think a Ness main is any different? A good Ness, just like a good Falco will do whatever they can to not be put in that situation.

Now onto our second jump. Don't expect a simple dair to stomp us. After all, each character can airdodge as they return. If you're intentionally landing on Ness' PKT as he recovers, then there's a problem with that Ness. I haven't seen anybody intentionally land on Ness' PKT, so if you're doing that, you're either pro or that Ness sucks at recovering correctly.

 

[DFEAR]

help the diddy boards with our matchup :3 we have crackers for u guys

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=239594

 

[IrisKong]

Wow. Okay, there you go again. Falco fires his laser, Ness ducks. You either have the option of going over there with any other attack or grabbing. However, don't expect us not to know that you can use your Phantasm on us and don't think we don't see you coming close with SH > Lasers, either. We can block as well as spotdodge. On to our recovery.

You say that if your only option is to use your Fire Bird, you try your best not to get spiked or hit at all. You say that "most" Falco's try there best not to be put into that situation. What makes you think a Ness main is any different? A good Ness, just like a good Falco will do whatever they can to not be put in that situation.

Now onto our second jump. Don't expect a simple dair to stomp us. After all, each character can airdodge as they return. If you're intentionally landing on Ness' PKT as he recovers, then there's a problem with that Ness. I haven't seen anybody intentionally land on Ness' PKT, so if you're doing that, you're either pro or that Ness sucks at recovering correctly.

You bait the air dodge by jumping then hit them with a rising dair using your 2nd jump when they get out of the air dodge.

Ness has a long start up time on all of his moves so go ahead and duck, you cant crawl so we are still keeping you where we want, while falco is running and short hopping all over the place, chances are he is gonna get you.

Its alot easier to get ness into bad positions then falco as far as recovery options.

 

[Uffe]

Try Ness' fair or uair then. This is why I hate discussing match ups. People like to pick at how Ness has a "bad" recovery. They think that getting Ness off the stage is so easy. Fact: Ness does not always land below the stage when he's off the stage. As for ducking, like I said before. We see you coming. You can do your SH > Laser or you can Phantasm. We can still block or spotdodge.

 

[BleachigoZX]

What if we simply walk up to you and jab.

Falco isn't a striaght forward robot. Falco is capable of doing more than just camping. We have an amazing SH to keeps players on their toes. Not just do we have a amazing RAR approach (Bair, Lasers cover far off)
But we have a amazing stage control attack called teh Phantasm. It cancels, it is fast, and when used properly it disrupts a large portion of the rosters flow. Falco is ridiculously broken on the match-up. We have more options than Ness/Lucas in almost every situation.

 

[Uffe]

What if we simply walk up to you and jab.

Falco isn't a striaght forward robot. Falco is capable of doing more than just camping. We have an amazing SH to keeps players on their toes. Not just do we have a amazing RAR approach (Bair, Lasers cover far off)
But we have a amazing stage control attack called teh Phantasm. It cancels, it is fast, and when used properly it disrupts a large portion of the rosters flow. Falco is ridiculously broken on the match-up. We have more options than Ness/Lucas in almost every situation.

I'm aware this match up is in Falco's favor, thanks. As for your walk up to jab, same thing. That's probably worse than your other two options. As for stage control, it depends what stage you're on. Just like trying to gimp Ness, it depends on what stage you're on. Phantasm can be stopped by nair, bair, possibly fair, I can't remember, PKT2, PK Flash and that's probably it. I know you guys have more options on this match up. I'm just getting sick of hearing people say, "Gimp Ness and you win." A match like that shouldn't last a minute if that's true. It's not like Ness can't win.

 

[BleachigoZX]

True that. Ness is an amazing character. He is easy to gimp if he is sent horizontally though I hate getting sent that way when I play him.

 

[Guilhe]

Ike boards is currently revising the Falco matchup, all Falco players are invited to join us. But first, please refer to the main matchup thread for information on our procedures and informative threads over Ike. I'll compile some links to threads with important information over Falco there as well, if you wish to add threads you consider important for this matchup analysis, please post the links there.

Main matchup thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=238648

Falco matchup discussion thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7769705#post7769705http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=239272

 

[Emperor Time]

We **** you hard. Why is this even up for debate anymore?

We'll help in any way we can.

 

[AvoiD]

I think we should discuss the Peach matchup.

I keep gettin' ***** by it.

 

[Emperor Time]

Same here. That freakin' Dair is so annoying.

I've tried lasering, but to no avail -_-

 

[IrisKong]

I think we should discuss the Peach matchup.

I keep gettin' ***** by it.

It doesnt matter who we discuss, no one really is seeming to contribute from the falco boards.. -_-

But sure... so its 60-40 falcos favor for the ness match up.

AS for Peach... GO

 

[BleachigoZX]

Peach can Nair us out of Jab combo...

 

[Terra~]

Good job thus far, keep it up. No need to rush things but I'm currently making a huge match-up chart based on each boards thoughts. Up till now you guys and Bowser boards are top tier for efficiency and hard work on match-ups =P

 

[Emperor Time]

Up till now you guys and Bowser boards are top tier for efficiency and hard work on match-ups =P

.....

Sure?

Sounds like a cool idea, man.

 

[BleachigoZX]

Good job thus far, keep it up. No need to rush things but I'm currently making a huge match-up chart based on each boards thoughts. Up till now you guys and Bowser boards are top tier for efficiency and hard work on match-ups =P

I though we were the "Everyone is cool, but **** that one noob everyweek that needs to know how to boost smash" Board.

Also a lot of our stuff needs to be updated as well. Ask KuroZero/Vlade/not me for that stuff. I'm the resident lazy guy

 

[AvoiD]

I'm with Bleach on that.

I just do work.

Anyways, we gotta get this going again. Xonarrrrrrrrrrrr.

Peach matchup next please.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You want me to make a new matchup thread?

Lazy bird, do it yourself lol.

sigh ill do it anyway

 

[Terra~]

No need to rush the match ups, I'm just saying what I'm planning to do :D
But really, grats on working so hard on match-ups !

 

[AvoiD]

I'm not no lazy bird .

After you make the thread, I end up going to the character forums and posting the link asking for input in their Matchup threads.

You don't think the people just passed by the Falco board and saw it did you.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I'm not no lazy bird .

After you make the thread, I end up going to the character forums and posting the link asking for input in their Matchup threads.

You don't think the people just passed by the Falco board and saw it did you.

Well that's kinda nice.

kinda.