gunterrsmash01
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2007
- Messages
- 2,533
That matchup chart is seriously outdated lol Blad you should update it. I could help.
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Match-Up Discussion ~ Final Week Ganon/Falcon/Link >__>
- Thread starter Blad01
- Start date
- Status
wangston
Smash Lord
Lucas is broken my falco got 3 stocked by tyr, lol he will search his name and see this. I had no idea what he was doing and what i could punish him for. Like everything had no lag or he made it seem that way. I beat him with my gw but then he worked me on brinstar, it makes Lucas's moves all last like 10 years ban it when you play lucas.
M@v
Subarashii!
you should be banning brinstar or Lylat to begin with as falco >_>.
As for Lucas, you can't rely on camping, since he can just abosrb it. You can try to bait him though and make him exposed to attack. Lucas has a lot of multi hit moves that last a long time, so they key is the inital shield or dodge. He will be helpess, still doing the move, and your free to punish. For edgeguarding, there are two really good options:
-if hes closer and uses his upb, spike him.
-Try to interrupt his Pk thunder with your reflector. It will send off a completely different direction, and completely screw him. Im guessing this matchup is anywhere from 60:40-65:35, moreso towards 60:40.
clowsui
Smash Legend
wow you guys have no idea about how easy this matchup is as falco as a 6:4
ban brinstar INSTANTLY vs lucas
abuse the fact that jab is **** vs. lucas...
space uair to get through his full hop dairs if he's really high in the air, otherwise just trade with a cross up bair
if uses nair just keep your shield up and then on the last little bit just jump out of shield or jc bair
try to stay at a longer range...magnet is an option for him though so you might need to get closer and stuff
a lot of things put lucas in a terrible position and he has to try and trick you 'n stuff...i have no good vids of it since i haven't played tyr in tourney in forever
also mav the reflector trick doesn't work, he'll just loop it back into himself and since you need to use your DJ the situation is the same
spiking him out of pk thunder is hard..
ban brinstar INSTANTLY vs lucas
abuse the fact that jab is **** vs. lucas...
space uair to get through his full hop dairs if he's really high in the air, otherwise just trade with a cross up bair
if uses nair just keep your shield up and then on the last little bit just jump out of shield or jc bair
try to stay at a longer range...magnet is an option for him though so you might need to get closer and stuff
a lot of things put lucas in a terrible position and he has to try and trick you 'n stuff...i have no good vids of it since i haven't played tyr in tourney in forever
also mav the reflector trick doesn't work, he'll just loop it back into himself and since you need to use your DJ the situation is the same
spiking him out of pk thunder is hard..
Lucas beats Falco 6:4. If im not mistaken Lucas's nair beats all of Falcos aerials except for bair. You can no longer use lasers as effective due to his down b. Lucas racks up damage so much faster than Lucas and his fsmash his quicker than most of Falcos moves and can kill at low percentages. However, you can use your down b to deflect his projectiles and Falco can easily edgegaurd Lucas with his down b. Basically like Pgh-M@v-Pgh said you can shield or dodge and punish Lucas.
I'll give this guy the benefit of the doubt and say he's an epic and awesome troll.
LMFAO!
Weruop
Smash Ace
olimar vs falco is NOT 50 50
B-Mon
Smash Journeyman
LOL i was thinking the exact same thing girl.
Yumewomiteru
Smash Master
I find that bair and fair works well again lucas's pk thunder. If he's recovering from below and your above him, time your bair to hit his pk thunder as it is coming out. If hes recovering from higher up and your under him, jump and fair his pk thunder before it hits him.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
Avion
Smash Apprentice
-posts several days after everyone else and didn't realize until just now-
But seriously, why not just use bair for that too? Unless there's something I'm missing. Which wouldn't surprise me.
Fair? With Falco? ARE YOU MAD?!?!
But seriously, why not just use bair for that too? Unless there's something I'm missing. Which wouldn't surprise me.
Denzi
Smash Master
Since Fair's hitbox stays out for a much longer period of time, there's less margin for error and thus much easier/safer to try to hit it.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
If it were only that simple to grab. On a side note, Ground Release > Shine actually has incredibly high trip rate for some reason after ~60%
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
Here's my simple, concise matchup summary list for Falco.
MK: Even. Onstage Falco has a slight advantage. Offstage = lol. Most Falcos will SHDL until MK's close, then phantasm away. It's easy just to tornado that. Mixing up phantasm timings, jabs, lasers up close, and a few other moves when MK gets in can really help. Don't go to Battlefield. Ban Brinstar or Rainbow. Two dairs offstage is death, so save your second jump and be unpredictable with where you're gonna end your phantasms. Canceling, landing on the stage/grabbing edge, the whole deal. If you're predictable, you can eat a nair, dair or tornado for phantasming. Just try to get back with your second jump.
A well-placed phantasm hits MK straight out of tornado if you cut across the top of it. If he has no jumps left, you can force him to recover to the stage with drill rush and punish him for it. Or, if your timing is good, you can edgehog and kill him. Pretty unlikely scenario, though. Dealing with tornado onstage is simple. Laser it, fsmash it, or shield the entire thing (angle your shield up, take tap jump off if this bothers you). If he lands next to you, grab or bair/dair OOS. You can beat it from the top with dair and bair (get caught in it, pop out, attack through it). Your shine also beats tornado head on (and all of his other attacks, but this is the safest use for it). Since it rises and falls with your body, it can be more useful than lasers up close (and does more damage). Yay unconventional moves.
When they're at low percents, they're gonna dair camp to avoid grabs (unless they're stupid). Just humor them by lasering and attacking, you'll end up getting the 40 damage anyway. Just be really patient and don't rush in. You never have to approach. If you decide to, MK can just tap all your approaches away with his super safe pokes. Jump around and be annoying with lasers the whole time. Usmash kills MK at 120ish, but don't fish. If you get a setup into it (laser -> usmash), cool. If the MK is really safe, just wait until 170 and kill him with dash attack. You're FALCO, you should have no problem getting someone that high. It's just a matter of the willingness to play gay. Oh yeah, and don't attack MK's shield. Ever. Please. You're just asking for an up B or aerial OOS.
Synopsis: Be really gay and patient. Approaching is a no-no. Consider your options offstage. Never recover the same way twice in a row (well, that's an exaggeration, but don't let them catch on). A Falco with brains can easily go even with MK.
Snake: I'm not sure on the ratio. I can't really figure this matchup out. If the Snake doesn't blow himself up at 0, Falco wins. If he does, my first instinct would be to say that Snake wins. He outlives Falco, outspaces him, and camps pretty much just as well. The kill percents are WAY skewed in this matchup, and Snake loves trading hits because he gets away with it in almost every case. It's also extremely difficult for Falco to even land kill moves on a defensive Snake. In my experience (from both sides of the matchup), it's really high-intensity and really boils down to who the most patient is. Snake doesn't have many ways to cope with lasers -> phantasm -> lasers. Sure, he can crawl under them, but he just gets outboxed up close.
In the air, Snake wins. His bair and nair just kinda rip through Falco's moves. Fortunately, if he whiffs, that's a free usmash/grab/dair/whatever you want. On a stage like FD, though, he gets less chances to use his aerials offensively. Just watch out in the air so you don't eat 29 damage. Mid-range, Falco really has no answer to ftilt. Five of them and a grenade is kill percents. The only ways to beat it are shine and lasers. Fortunately, it's easy enough never to be put in the mid-distance situation if you simply do not approach. Killing Snake is difficult unless you can force him to land. Snake's landing options pretty much suck. Expect the air dodge and get your free usmash at 160. Yay. Dash attack kills him at like, 210, probably.
I don't know enough about this match to go into fine details. Snake is really scary, both on the ground and in the air (when he's on the offensive). Played at top levels, this match is really campy (see: 9B vs. Rain) and boring. Falco should just make Snake approach with his ever-so-slightly superior camping and then beat him with his amazing boxing game. Jab is so good. Don't get antsy and chase after him, you'll just eat way more damage than you should (wtf is this character on? 21% ftilt, 29% nair/dair...). Be boring, not flashy. Utilt nom nom noms phantasms for breakfast, at 100%. -_-
Wario: Even. He's gonna float around and be annoying, live forever, and not get hit by your lasers. Fortunately you can actually fight him, bair beats his aerials and ftilt/jab/utilt do really well up close. Don't get caught in your shield, Wario has lots of options that are safe on block and will hit you hard for trying to punish him, or can mix up bites to outright **** your shield. He's also got a powerful OOS game, with surprisingly big grab range, nair/dair OOS, and shield drop fsmash.
Kill percents suck less in this match. Usmash kills at 140ish (grab release <3), you'll die at 115 to fsmash (the move is way weaker than it seems, learn to DI
) and mid-70s to fart @ 0:57 or 1:30. Not much to say about this match, you can just kinda fight Wario and get away with it. Oh yeah, and don't ever be above him, for the love of god. That clap is DUMB.
More tomorrow. Just felt like posting this 'cause I have nothing else to do.
MK: Even. Onstage Falco has a slight advantage. Offstage = lol. Most Falcos will SHDL until MK's close, then phantasm away. It's easy just to tornado that. Mixing up phantasm timings, jabs, lasers up close, and a few other moves when MK gets in can really help. Don't go to Battlefield. Ban Brinstar or Rainbow. Two dairs offstage is death, so save your second jump and be unpredictable with where you're gonna end your phantasms. Canceling, landing on the stage/grabbing edge, the whole deal. If you're predictable, you can eat a nair, dair or tornado for phantasming. Just try to get back with your second jump.
A well-placed phantasm hits MK straight out of tornado if you cut across the top of it. If he has no jumps left, you can force him to recover to the stage with drill rush and punish him for it. Or, if your timing is good, you can edgehog and kill him. Pretty unlikely scenario, though. Dealing with tornado onstage is simple. Laser it, fsmash it, or shield the entire thing (angle your shield up, take tap jump off if this bothers you). If he lands next to you, grab or bair/dair OOS. You can beat it from the top with dair and bair (get caught in it, pop out, attack through it). Your shine also beats tornado head on (and all of his other attacks, but this is the safest use for it). Since it rises and falls with your body, it can be more useful than lasers up close (and does more damage). Yay unconventional moves.
When they're at low percents, they're gonna dair camp to avoid grabs (unless they're stupid). Just humor them by lasering and attacking, you'll end up getting the 40 damage anyway. Just be really patient and don't rush in. You never have to approach. If you decide to, MK can just tap all your approaches away with his super safe pokes. Jump around and be annoying with lasers the whole time. Usmash kills MK at 120ish, but don't fish. If you get a setup into it (laser -> usmash), cool. If the MK is really safe, just wait until 170 and kill him with dash attack. You're FALCO, you should have no problem getting someone that high. It's just a matter of the willingness to play gay. Oh yeah, and don't attack MK's shield. Ever. Please. You're just asking for an up B or aerial OOS.
Synopsis: Be really gay and patient. Approaching is a no-no. Consider your options offstage. Never recover the same way twice in a row (well, that's an exaggeration, but don't let them catch on). A Falco with brains can easily go even with MK.
Snake: I'm not sure on the ratio. I can't really figure this matchup out. If the Snake doesn't blow himself up at 0, Falco wins. If he does, my first instinct would be to say that Snake wins. He outlives Falco, outspaces him, and camps pretty much just as well. The kill percents are WAY skewed in this matchup, and Snake loves trading hits because he gets away with it in almost every case. It's also extremely difficult for Falco to even land kill moves on a defensive Snake. In my experience (from both sides of the matchup), it's really high-intensity and really boils down to who the most patient is. Snake doesn't have many ways to cope with lasers -> phantasm -> lasers. Sure, he can crawl under them, but he just gets outboxed up close.
In the air, Snake wins. His bair and nair just kinda rip through Falco's moves. Fortunately, if he whiffs, that's a free usmash/grab/dair/whatever you want. On a stage like FD, though, he gets less chances to use his aerials offensively. Just watch out in the air so you don't eat 29 damage. Mid-range, Falco really has no answer to ftilt. Five of them and a grenade is kill percents. The only ways to beat it are shine and lasers. Fortunately, it's easy enough never to be put in the mid-distance situation if you simply do not approach. Killing Snake is difficult unless you can force him to land. Snake's landing options pretty much suck. Expect the air dodge and get your free usmash at 160. Yay. Dash attack kills him at like, 210, probably.
I don't know enough about this match to go into fine details. Snake is really scary, both on the ground and in the air (when he's on the offensive). Played at top levels, this match is really campy (see: 9B vs. Rain) and boring. Falco should just make Snake approach with his ever-so-slightly superior camping and then beat him with his amazing boxing game. Jab is so good. Don't get antsy and chase after him, you'll just eat way more damage than you should (wtf is this character on? 21% ftilt, 29% nair/dair...). Be boring, not flashy. Utilt nom nom noms phantasms for breakfast, at 100%. -_-
Wario: Even. He's gonna float around and be annoying, live forever, and not get hit by your lasers. Fortunately you can actually fight him, bair beats his aerials and ftilt/jab/utilt do really well up close. Don't get caught in your shield, Wario has lots of options that are safe on block and will hit you hard for trying to punish him, or can mix up bites to outright **** your shield. He's also got a powerful OOS game, with surprisingly big grab range, nair/dair OOS, and shield drop fsmash.
Kill percents suck less in this match. Usmash kills at 140ish (grab release <3), you'll die at 115 to fsmash (the move is way weaker than it seems, learn to DI
) and mid-70s to fart @ 0:57 or 1:30. Not much to say about this match, you can just kinda fight Wario and get away with it. Oh yeah, and don't ever be above him, for the love of god. That clap is DUMB.More tomorrow. Just felt like posting this 'cause I have nothing else to do.
BleachigoZX
Smash Master
**** doom putting in work!!
I like the way you post, it's entertaining.
I like the way you post, it's entertaining.
Anybody with patience enough to read this let me know if there's anything horribly wrong with it:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244529
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244529
Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
The wolf boards are rediscussing falco again so any input from you guys is appreciated.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=237768
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=237768
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
The Fox boards are re-discussing Falco (now with fancy export), so input would by appreciated:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=247613
(or just scroll down one name in the character list <3)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=247613
(or just scroll down one name in the character list <3)
So like I took some time out to update this thing.
When we're done with matchups, we should focus on a new chart.
When we're done with matchups, we should focus on a new chart.
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
I can make you a fancy chart.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
BleachigoZX
Smash Master
Why is it that Falco barely wins or is only at a tiny advantage with most of the cast? He is a lot be-...nah, he really does suck.
Whatever dude, stop acting like you call the shots. -__-
Emperor Time
Smash Lord
Match-Up Discussion ~ Week #33 Ganon/Falcon/Link >__>
El Oh El.
El Oh El.
BleachigoZX
Smash Master
Edit: I'm too pro. Teran <3's me.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
I just followed the discussions.
I'm sure you can at least agree with me that kirby isn't that bad and that IC isn't that good.
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
So are the digits in the OP correct?
Whatever I amended it anyway. Just don't like, order me around, I'm not your servant.
Apparently so Oni, but that's always subject to change/debate.
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
Someone just tell me via VM or something if there has been changes and the numbers for the rest of the characters that would need to be added. I'll get the chart started.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
When did I order you around?
<this is when>
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
So correction is ordering now?
I apologize if you had mistaken it for ordering you around, and hereby inform you that it wasn't meant to be interpreted as such.
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
I always took the digit that was worse for Falco if there were 2 digits available. Just tell me if there's something wrong (like how I saw that the OP notes Fox as 60:40, while it's more 55:45) and the remaining stuff once you finished discussing it.
Haha that's awesome thanks man.
When we've finished it all off, I can hit you up for an update right?
When we've finished it all off, I can hit you up for an update right?
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
Sure. Payment is through sexual stimulation.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Just perfect man.I always took the digit that was worse for Falco if there were 2 digits available. Just tell me if there's something wrong (like how I saw that the OP notes Fox as 60:40, while it's more 55:45) and the remaining stuff once you finished discussing it.
If you need trouble with anything you could use me in, don't hesitate to hit me up
BleachigoZX
Smash Master
Edit: Ummm, In the Bakery we have some Teran pics.
Don't ****ing spam this place up. >__<
King Funk
Int. Croc. Alligator
Ah... Finally this place is being updated.
gunterrsmash01
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2007
- Messages
- 2,533
The chart is accurate except i think you should change the following
lucario matchup is even
marth matchup is even
pika vs falco should be 40-60
lucario matchup is even
marth matchup is even
pika vs falco should be 40-60
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