Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.

[Cosmo!]

heres my latest opinion on zelda matchups

10:90

25:75

30:70

30:70

35:65

40:60

40:60

40:60

45:55

50:50

50:50

50:50

55:45

60:40

65:35

70:30

70:30

the rest: ??:??

 

[Strong Badam]

Anywho, do you guys want me to setup match-up threads on each character board (then get banned for spamming) and see if that works, or would that just be annoying?

It'd be better than this thread, which is more or less filled with baseless conjecture and theorycraft.

 

[N64]

It'd be basically the same as this thread I'd suspect. It's all smashboards. same people.

 

[t3h Icy]

I PM'd Hylian and others to see what they think so I don't get banned for spamming. Hopefully it flies and then we can just use this as a central thread. The style that Rajam is doing with Brawl seems to be both accurate and effective, so maybe we can replicate it here.

Not to mention, we'll have 26 discussion all going at once without turning into a huge cluster**** of a mess, so progress can be made too.

EDIT: Thanks Cosmo. =)

 

[Laijin]

snip

Uhh..what?
I CLEARLY, very clearly, as anyone in this thread can see, responded to each other your points, directly giving reasons why your points are wrong. I understand the MU well enough to know what I'm talking about, while you on the other hand clearly do not have much experience or at the very least, much less experience than I do in the MU. How do I know this? Your argument showing off that much.

So let me ask you this. How can you defend something you don't know much about to begin with?

 

[KAOSTAR]

Uhh..what?
I CLEARLY, very clearly, as anyone in this thread can see, responded to each other your points, directly giving reasons why your points are wrong. I understand the MU well enough to know what I'm talking about, while you on the other hand clearly do not have much experience or at the very least, much less experience than I do in the MU. How do I know this? Your argument showing off that much.

So let me ask you this. How can you defend something you don't know much about to begin with?

you couldn't even internalize what my last post was saying.

I in no way attempted to produce a MU analysis. wtf were you responding to.

until you figure that out you can have this discussion alone. its not worth my time, I don't even find it fun anymore.

currently its accurate @ plus 1. if you want to change it, spit ur piece. write a MU analysis thats good. im not going to waste energy defending the castle from a squirrel. my post wasn't MU analysis, the most important part was that ur usually wrong and I think ur dumb.

 

[Laijin]

you couldn't even internalize what my last post was saying.

I in no way attempted to produce a MU analysis. wtf were you responding to.

until you figure that out you can have this discussion alone. its not worth my time, I don't even find it fun anymore.

Alright dude.
Thats cool.
I don't know anything about "How to properly discuss a MU" apparently although I'm pretty sure responding to your points gets the job done? Oh. And clearly explaining my points in clear detail is a half ***** generalization? I dunno man. I'm not a match up analysis pro like you.

Discussions with you feel like a waste of time

currently its accurate @ plus 1. if you want to change it, spit ur piece. write a MU analysis thats good. im not going to waste energy defending the castle from a squirrel. my post wasn't MU analysis, the most important part was that ur usually wrong and I think ur dumb.

Thats pretty funny. I think the exact same thing about you. You have never once pointed out why any of my points are wrong in any of our discussions(I think we only had one other?). So why would I bother to write some ridiculously long post when I can just give out short, concise key points in the MU. Makes more sense to me since there isn't a whole lot to the match up. "Young Link camps. Mewtwo has very little options. M2 doesn't win".
Thats the MU.

Its definitely at the very least -2, IMO -3.

 

[KAOSTAR]

lol so what ur telling me is that ur response to a few general statements I made coupled with gest was an accurate description, in detail of how yl vs mewtwo goes.

well if you convinced teh icy then maybe you are a pro. let me know when it gets changed to yl +2/+3 mewtwo.

edit: lol we have had more than one discussion from this thread alone. you even got that wrong.

 

[Laijin]

Dude. I'm pretty sure pointing out why the other person is wrong about something is the how debates work and I'm also pretty sure I'm accurate with those "general statements" I made.

Besides, like I said before.
I don't even get how you can talk the MU in the first place if you apparently don't know anything about it. So what happens when someone talks about about something they have no idea about but yet talk like they do? They sound completely dumb to someone that does know what their talking about but may sound alright to others who don't know any better.
And this is how I see you.

 

[KAOSTAR]

call me when it gets changed.

you might also wanna read our previous discussion on this subject. I ir rhan was also involved.

lmao yl + 3 mewtwo is accurate. **** fox falco marth falcon. im worried about yl now. dam sheik peach ganon puff, yl *****.

 

[Laijin]

I don't really care anymore, so I'm not gonna bother lol.
I was all ready for a debate but you killed my fire bro haha.

You're still cool man. I just really wanted a good debate. :O

 

[t3h Icy]

Okay, I got the green light from Hylian, and each board now has their own thread specifically for this. I imagine that much of the match-ups can come from co-existing threads on the same board, but nevertheless, we should be getting some serious discussion and progress going. =D

So now on the TO-DO list is to get discussion going on each board, I'll change up the visuals again for the chart using my Brawl colour strip and the Melee icons (thanks Cosmo). I'll also make sure to periodically check all 26 threads, including this one if people feel like arguing some more. If discussion goes off-topic on the threads, I'll try to help take care of that.

I'll also revamp the main post. I'll get everything done eventually. ^_^

But most importantly, spamming is hard work:

Has to be some sort of record. =P

 

[KAOSTAR]

@laijin-and im prepared for one.

but go hard. write a MU analysis, don't start with what I wrote, alot of that was jokes but with some truth. you have the position or burden of proof.

gimme an effort and ill gladly go over the MU. but saying yl + 3, mewtwo can't even get inside won't do it lol. I wouldn't need to argue anything because the chart would never get changed from that argument.

icy-you should appoint a person from each board to report to u and keep you updated so you don't have to check them all so often.

 

[KirbyKaze]

You call *that* spamming?

Oh pfft.

*****, please.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

You actually have nice proof of your dominance of the CS boards. I took a couple images, but I didn't put any effort into making them presentable.

 

[t3h Icy]

I'm already loving what's started. n_n

I really think we'll get something effective going. I'll make sure to mention everyone's name in the first post that helps out.

 

[Pi]

You actually have nice proof of your dominance of the CS boards. I took a couple images, but I didn't put any effort into making them presentable.

same

was inspired to do this;
cs tier list (friday, sept 17, 2010 2:40am):

by threads:

Falco
Fox
Marth
Captain Falcon
Sheik
Samus
Link
Peach
Ice Climbers
Bowser
Ganondorf
Doctor Mario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Luigi
Roy
Donkey Kong
Mewtwo
Young Link
Ness
Yoshi
Pikachu
Game & Watch
Kirby
Zelda
Pichu

by posts:

Fox
Captain Falcon
Falco
Marth
Sheik
Ganondorf
Samus
Peach
Doctor Mario
Link
Ice Climbers
Bowser
Jigglypuff
Ness
Mario
Mewtwo
Roy
Pikachu
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Young Link
Kirby
Yoshi
Zelda
Game & Watch
Pichu


Fox 1,162 37,567
Captain Falcon 1,030 34,557
Falco 1,368 32,222
Marth 1,114 29,698
Sheik 671 23,463
Ganondorf 471 21,550
Samus 609 21,314
Peach 597 19,636
Doctor Mario 427 16,554
Link 602 16,001
Ice Climbers 547 13,397
Bowser 494 12,803
Jigglypuff 389 11,676
Ness 259 10,265
Mario 357 8,850
Mewtwo 263 7,657
Roy 301 7,218
Pikachu 225 6,920
Luigi 332 6,814
Donkey Kong 287 6,630
Young Link 260 6,206
Kirby 203 5,629
Yoshi 252 5,486
Zelda 162 4,343
Game & Watch 212 3,953
Pichu 147 3,256

 

[Deleted member]

my opinion on zelda matchups

20:80

10:90

25:75

35:65

45:55

50:50

40:60

40:60

50:50

60:40

60:40

copied cosmo's format and changed the ratios somewhat. eliminated characters that don't matter.

 

[TheGoat]

Whoa. 45:55 on falco?

 

[Deleted member]

Whoa. 45:55 on falco?

experienced based. mango still 1 and 2 stocked me =/

 

[TheGoat]

experienced based. mango still 1 and 2 stocked me =/

Gotcha.
Apparently zelda is pretty good matchup wise, I can see. Especially for ICs samus and peach. I would suspect zelda would be placing a bit higher in tournies, but the abundance of fox is probably keeping her down.
This lower tier tournament thing is becoming more imminent!

 

[t3h Icy]

Well one got locked so far. XD

If the boards prefer not to use my crap, just dump the numbers from the board here, or I can just invade into the threads some more. n_n

 

[Merkuri]

Well one got locked so far. XD

If the boards prefer not to use my crap, just dump the numbers from the board here, or I can just invade into the threads some more. n_n

You should have mentioned in your thread that Hylian gave you the green Light. The mods wouldn't have locked it then. This was a great idea and you screwed it up.

 

[Winston]

This was a great idea and you screwed it up.

LOL

This made me laugh out loud for some reason

 

[ranmaru]

I like the = > >> thing.

Bleh to numbers. : ]

sheik and captain falcon are hard for doc : [

 

[The Good Doctor]

I like the = > >> thing.

Bleh to numbers. : ]

sheik and captain falcon are hard for doc : [

Falcon seems like, impossible....
T.T

 

[t3h Icy]

This was a great idea and you screwed it up.

XD

It'll work itself out.

 

[Dark Hart]

This was a great idea and you screwed it up.

best post in this thread.

 

[The Good Doctor]

best post in this thread.

I totally agree, well...besides Kaostar's stupid Mewtwo "match-up facts"
<3

 

[Nø Ca$h]

marth>samus??? if marth spaces well he ***** samus. hugs paid m2k to switch to sheik

deffinately a 70-30 match up in marths favor.

 

[KAOSTAR]

stupid MU facts ****.

@umbreon-lmao @ important MU's. zelda isn't important.

@icy-yea just tell the mods they messed up. they probably didn't know.

@merkuri-lol, good one

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Has to be some sort of record. =P

beat my record

 

[t3h Icy]

Completely redid the first post, made a new chart visual, and changed the information. The top-left corner is what we got to from before, but it's not permanent.

I'd really like to see this going somewhere, especially seeing that so many people disliked how the Tier List turned out to be. Everyone can help in some way since each character board has a thread (and for Kirby's, go to "The Official Kirby Match-up Thread").

Thanks again everyone. n_n

 

[n1000]

Icy, when this thread had a new topic that was supposed to go through every MU how long did you spend per match-up/per character?

If notable, "representative" players could be recruited from each character board to keep the discussions on track I think the chart might be filled in at a pretty good pace.

 

[t3h Icy]

That's a really slick idea, if we can get people to step up for it. =D

You can check the update history for a rough estimate on how quickly we went over match-ups I suppose, but we updated fairly frequently.

 

[idea]

who on earth is the authority on kirby <_<

 

[Pink Reaper]

If you'd been to the Kirby boards you'd know it's ICG

 

[Laijin]

But everyone in the community knows Kirby is terrible, so whatever he says doesn't matte

 

[Merkuri]

But everyone in the community knows Kirby is terrible, so whatever he says doesn't matte

People said the same things about Zelda 2 years ago, and now she's being taken seriously.

 

[Laijin]

People said the same things about Zelda 2 years ago, and now she's being taken seriously.

But Zelda is still a pretty terrible character. Have you seen her match ups lately? They are pretty bad lol