Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.

[KirbyKaze]

Peach Ganon is stupid and gay.

 

[MarsFool!]

Ganon peach 60 40 ganon

Peach gets hit three times and its practically over on a small stage

ganon doesn't have to come close against turnips

Ganon gets hit fairly hard from sweetspot upsmash

Ganon can't get back for the most part

Peach has to recover mid or high

Peaches aerials get snubbed by ganons in every direction so she has to wait and try to turnip or bait you in close or get ganon to space badly so she can nair oos

 

[Pi]

Ganon peach 60 40 ganon

Peach gets hit three times and its practically over on a small stage

ganon doesn't have to come close against turnips

Ganon gets hit fairly hard from sweetspot upsmash

Ganon can't get back for the most part

Peach has to recover mid or high

Peaches aerials get snubbed by ganons in every direction so she has to wait and try to turnip or bait you in close or get ganon to space badly so she can nair oos

I hope you're not seriously using those exaggerations to support your matchup 'theory'

 

[MarsFool!]

No I made it all up. Because thats not what the match looks like @_@

 

[KAOSTAR]

I hope you're not seriously using those exaggerations to support your matchup 'theory'

what if he is?

what u gonna do about it....

 

[Laijin]

some people don't believe that alph. But ohhhh just wait. We got dis!

lets do it rhan! =)

 

[Pi]

No I made it all up. Because thats not what the match looks like @_@

I'm not saying you made it up, most of it is accurate to an extent, but I do feel you are exaggerating on some points, and missing some key details to the matchup.

what if he is?

what u gonna do about it....

THIS!!!!!!!!!

 

[Divinokage]

It's definitely wrong the match-up is probably 55-45 for Peach. Once Ganon is off-stage he is dead pretty much.. and I find it's really difficult to approach great Peach players like Vwins/Armada. But she does have some weakness like you can use upair to nullify pretty much any approach Peach has and you can also catch turnips sometimes as to not to get so overwhelmed. But there's not really many garanteed combos you can do against Peach other than like downthrow into aerial so it makes it real hard to combo her. Pretty much that.

 

[Laijin]

Hey Kage. Will you ever Ganon ditto Chaddd again?

 

[Vts]

We still debating weather IC vs peach is bad or not?

if we are then here is my input.

Peach pros-
- Down smash destroys ic's shield and desyncs them fairly easy.
- Isn't always grounds by floating keeps peach from being grabbed
- turnips allow easy desyncing as well different shield pressure and a chance for a strong killing turnip.
- great recovery
- f-throw to easy edge guards around 70-100
- can CC low % to avoid jab-grab

Peach cons-
- lack of speed to keep up with ICs wavedash
- lag from missed float cancels and dsmash can result in a grab or some dmg
- lack of combos

now the IC part

IC pros-
- Hand off or wobble gives a kill (hand off if done right and near edge or on platform)
- Fast speed from wavedashes to get in and out
- decent range with tilts and smashes.
- desyncs for approach.
- Bairs/uairs are fast and have good hit boxes allowing easy hits

IC cons-
- nana can die in 2s to peach
- need both climbers to kill out of grab
- recovery is easily punished
- small grab range
- lack of combos unless grabbing
- not a heavy character can die from f-throw (depend on map) around 120-150.
- desync ice blocks are to low to hit a floating peach.

now over all i see the match up being 60/40 but pushing more for 65/35

baiting grabs and spacing to punish the peach is IC goal but harder said then done.

this is just my input being an IC main for 3 years and playing some good peaches.

peaches will mostly float in the safe zone to avoid grabs and desynced ic blocks but still possible to nanan-pult , upsmash, utilt, and uair from but keeping the pressure with dair and nairs to stop the ICs.

 

[MarsFool!]

It's definitely wrong the match-up is probably 55-45 for Peach. Once Ganon is off-stage he is dead pretty much.. and I find it's really difficult to approach great Peach players like Vwins/Armada. But she does have some weakness like you can use upair to nullify pretty much any approach Peach has and you can also catch turnips sometimes as to not to get so overwhelmed. But there's not really many garanteed combos you can do against Peach other than like downthrow into aerial so it makes it real hard to combo her. Pretty much that.

I know a goood amount of ganons that totally disagree with this. I dont agree either.

lol laijin ccccc 4 stocked

 

[Strong Badam]

this match-up chart won't be accurate because it assumes wobbling is banned.
let's just ignore part of the metagame that only scrubs ban guys.

 

[Vts]

this match-up chart won't be accurate because it assumes wobbling is banned.
let's just ignore part of the metagame that only scrubs ban guys.

well for these match ups are we counting just neutral maps or counter picks.

cus if we factor in counter picks then its about 70/30 match up.

if not i'm still sticking with 60/40 pushing 65/35 for worst.

 

[KAOSTAR]

how would you quantify the effect of wobbling in a MU?

I always go straight theory bros and say IC just need 4ish grabs. with that they then have mostly positive MU. and they always win if they grab you.

[Basically meaning, Wobbling would probably only increase IC favor maybe 5 points or so in the grand scheme of things. Because even without it they do have a solid grab game already that often leads into high damage or kills.]imo

 

[Druggedfox]

For ganon peach... I'm with kage on this one. I used to think ganon had the advantage, until I looked at peach's combo game: something most people ignore. Her combo game on ganon is pretty ridiculous, and she doesn't have taht much trouble getting him off the stage for relatively easy edgeguards. The fact that peach doesn't have to approach aids her in this (projectiles vs no projectiles); then even if the peach does approach, her pressure game is amazing, and ganon is a huge target.

As for IC vs peach... I just watch armada vs wobbles and go "wow". As far as I know (I could easily be wrong), there aren't any IC players in Europe on the level of wobbles. If there are, I haven't heard of them. Regardless, wobbles has obviously had good peach players to play against, albeit not as good as armada. Despite this, armada easily showed how badly peach can **** ICs, even with wobbling. The way armada played the match, it might as well have been SoPo vs Peach. I know this is an amazing player, but he really showed how to exploit it.

 

[MarsFool!]

Platforms make peaches camp game so non practical. Also any staqge without platforms is large enough for ganon to be comfortable in his spacing so again turnips don't do much. And peach can rush ganon what? Thats like saying she can rush marth , now we all know what a good spacing marth can do even without grabs and she certainly can't combo ganon that bad, he's floaty.

@articanus: watch some ga grand finals of chaddd vs xif =/

 

[Divinokage]

Platforms make peaches camp game so non practical. Also any staqge without platforms is large enough for ganon to be comfortable in his spacing so again turnips don't do much. And peach can rush ganon what? Thats like saying she can rush marth , now we all know what a good spacing marth can do even without grabs and she certainly can't combo ganon that bad, he's floaty.

@articanus: watch some ga grand finals of chaddd vs xif =/

I told you before try to play Armada/Vwins vs Ganon and talk back with me. I don't want to hear people with ****ty Ganon/Peach experience. This is about top level play.

Edit: Last time I Ganon ditto Chaddd was when he's Ganon was rusty. He uses Fox now no?

 

[MarsFool!]

lol just cause you lost doesnt anything. Youre not on armadas level.

 

[CloneHat]

lol just cause you lost doesnt anything. Youre not on armadas level.

I'd say Armada vs. Kage is 60:40 in Armada's favour.

 

[MarsFool!]

Only cause its a bad matchup for peach xD

 

[Armada]

Peach against IC is so good for Peach.
Fc Fair is almost everything you need. Hit one time with fair and then **** Nana. (Wobbles is really good and i think i proved why this matchup is not even)

Peach against Ganon is not in Ganons Favor he`s so slow and have so bad recovery and Peach have really good combos against him.

Ganon have good range but that`s not enough when i have turnips and FC nair combos

 

[Divinokage]

Peach against IC is so good for Peach.
Fc Fair is almost everything you need. Hit one time with fair and then **** Nana. (Wobbles is really good and i think i proved why this matchup is not even)

Peach against Ganon is not in Ganons Favor he`s so slow and have so bad recovery and Peach have really good combos against him.

Ganon have good range but that`s not enough when i have turnips and FC nair combos

Sure I'm not as good as you but, I'm tired of hearing random **** from people that don't know anything. Vwins ***** Linguini in tournament easily.. and Vwins is really good against Ganon because of me... I never beat him in a tournament set. Armada said it pretty much. It's not a super **** match-up but Peach definitely has enough tools to shut down everything Ganon has.. so that means the Ganon really has to guess correctly at the right times which is really tough to begin with.

 

[Linguini]

Sure I'm not as good as you but, I'm tired of hearing random **** from people that don't know anything. Vwins ***** Linguini in tournament easily.. and Vwins is really good against Ganon because of me... I never beat him in a tournament set. Armada said it pretty much. It's not a super **** match-up but Peach definitely has enough tools to shut down everything Ganon has.. so that means the Ganon really has to guess correctly at the right times which is really tough to begin with.

lol kage that was 2 1st round pool matches,not enough to base my skill in the matchup man. i'm pretty sure i'm even better at that matchup than you, judging how i did against armada compared to you...

 

[Divinokage]

lol kage that was 2 1st round pool matches,not enough to base my skill in the matchup man. i'm pretty sure i'm even better at that matchup than you, judging how i did against armada compared to you...

That doesn't even matter, you still lost to both. The point is that Peach has the advantage.

 

[KAOSTAR]

500$ MM Kage vs Linguini GEt HyPEdd!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OH BabBii!!!! ITz MeLEe!!!

 

[Strong Badam]

kage & armada know what they're talking about. their analysis of the match-up is pretty spot-on.

 

[Divinokage]

500$ MM Kage vs Linguini GEt HyPEdd!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OH BabBii!!!! ITz MeLEe!!!

The ****, this is about learning a match-up or having a more intelligent discussion. If someone is gonna throw his **** around then I don't really care. We are looking for top level play analysis so, from experience even the best Ganon gets ***** by best Peachs in a set all the time. Does that mean Ganon is not at highest level of play possible? I'm not sure but that's all we got. If so then, anyways to me it feels like Ganon does not have much options to shut down Peach so it gets predictable, he is indeed slow and it's tough to control space.

 

[KAOSTAR]

LOL. I dont think Ive ever had a reason to question your MU knowledge. I prob wont unless you say something like ganon can camp samus or something like that.

I use to think that Ganon could just slap that ***** every time she comes near but ive learned even bad projectiles can be used effectively if you can move around the stage a little more. I can see peach having the upper hand because she is sooo gay of a character.

How well does she punished a spaced fair tho(whiffed)? Like if you just miss with a fair and she is floating already can she punish you b4 the jab?

 

[NJzFinest]

Linguini!!!! I wanna know what you think about DK vs Ganon after playing RockCrock.

Atm, we DK players think it's hopeless but that set of you vs Rock looks pretty promising.

 

[Linguini]

That doesn't even matter, you still lost to both. The point is that Peach has the advantage.

True, but if peach has an advantage at all, it's 55-45. Peach having a projectile def. helps her because she will always have the ability to offensively control the match.

Although peach can lose to ganon in the spacing game, there's no need to space when you can just camp.But the presence of a projectile in the MU isn't enough to deem it a full advantage for peach. Ganon can use the turnips pretty well against her and once you get peach above you with ganon juggling isn't really too hard. Ganon also has a guaranteed d-throw---> **** combo which facilitates KO's.

It's 55-45 in peach's favor.

Linguini!!!! I wanna know what you think about DK vs Ganon after playing RockCrock.

Atm, we DK players think it's hopeless but that set of you vs Rock looks pretty promising.

DK vs Ganon is actually pretty close to even, i'd say 55-45 in ganons favor. DK's dashadance and bair + the combo's neutralize the range deficit in the matchup.

And Rock is one of the few DK's that actually knows how to fight ganon.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

DK vs Ganon is actually pretty close to even, i'd say 55-45 in ganons favor. DK's dashadance and bair + the combo's neutralize the range deficit in the matchup.

And Rock is one of the few DK's that actually knows how to fight ganon.

can you list the few DKs who know the actual MU?

 

[Divinokage]

PKM knows the match-up too but he doesn't go on smashboards. The combos DK have on Ganon is not as devastating as it once was. There are ways to avoid it by properly DIing and not get hit a million times by upair or bair in the air. I kinda play the DK match-up like Marth somehow, you just wait and bait attacks until you find a good opening to destroy him and it's easy to do in this match-up. Shield-stabbing DK is easy too. Also edgeguarding DK is super easy. I find it more to be 60-40.

 

[VGmasta]

How well does she punished a spaced fair tho(whiffed)? Like if you just miss with a fair and she is floating already can she punish you b4 the jab?

I'm pretty sure (but could be wrong) that Peach's f-air will outrange Ganon's jab to come if he misses the spaced f-air. But I don't think Peach will really get to punish if she's already floating toward Ganon's spaced (whiffed) f-air if he rolls away instead of trying to jab afterwards.

The only thing Peach gets out of it is a free turnip pulls. ANYTIME Peach reads a Ganon to do retreating airs or anything that exaggerates spacing between Peach, it's a free turnip pull for Peach.

True, but if peach has an advantage at all, it's 55-45. Peach having a projectile def. helps her because she will always have the ability to offensively control the match.

Although peach can lose to ganon in the spacing game, there's no need to space when you can just camp.But the presence of a projectile in the MU isn't enough to deem it a full advantage for peach. Ganon can use the turnips pretty well against her and once you get peach above you with ganon juggling isn't really too hard. Ganon also has a guaranteed d-throw---> **** combo which facilitates KO's.

It's 55-45 in peach's favor.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster has spoken.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

Edit: removed (Wrong thread my bad)

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

how would you quantify the effect of wobbling in a MU?

I always go straight theory bros and say IC just need 4ish grabs. with that they then have mostly positive MU. and they always win if they grab you.

[Basically meaning, Wobbling would probably only increase IC favor maybe 5 points or so in the grand scheme of things. Because even without it they do have a solid grab game already that often leads into high damage or kills.]imo

Wobbling affects certain matchups drastically. Just look at Marth/ICs. Without wobbling, ICs don't have **** on a Marth who knows how to DI (in fact, if it wasn't for charged smashes at high %, it could be arguable that Marth's grab mixups give him the grab advantage in this matchup).

Its really hard to quantify IC matchups without first asking whether wobbling is banned or not...

 

[Blistering Speed]

Always assume wobbling is allowed so as not to support stupidity.

 

[THeDarKnesS]

Always assume wobbling is allowed so as not to support stupidity.

What does this even mean? Is this advocacy for legal wobbling or am I misunderstanding you?

 

[Merkuri]

Wobbling is more often than not banned, so if anything we should assume it's always banned when considering any of the ICs match-ups.

 

[Siglemic]

can someone explain to me how samus is = with spacies ? i'm serious, i really have no idea

 

[JPOBS]

cuz hugs said so