Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.

[otg]

I have to point out, that I played a TON of DK vs. Pika recently, and the fact that cargo -> uthrow -> giant punch KO's in the 50's is kinda huge for DK considering that grab -> uair x infinite gets Pika into that KO range quickly.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Im pretty sure Pikachu has the slight advantage over Mewtwo.

V3ctorman vs Axe is the prime example, and they both agree Pika>M2.

 

[V3ctorMan]

@Kirbykaze indeed, he's done this one to my yoshi plenty =p, (is escapable) however if Yoshi absorbs the U-air (double jump)

^^

@Kaos, indeed we both agree that it's Pikachu > Mewtwo 60/40 in Pika's favor

 

[KirbyKaze]

If Yoshi DIs away from the U-throw can Pikachu SHFF Uair sending Yoshi towards the ground and then immediately U-smash? Or grab again? Low percents, obviously.

I remember him saying something like that worked on Sheik, which was interesting. You probably have an idea what I'm talking about.

 

[V3ctorMan]

If Yoshi DIs away from the U-throw can Pikachu SHFF Uair sending Yoshi towards the ground and then immediately U-smash? Or grab again? Low percents, obviously.

I remember him saying something like that worked on Sheik, which was interesting. You probably have an idea what I'm talking about.

<3 Kirbykaze ^^ yeah man you know ur stuff, ^^ and yeah I know what your talking about and you're mostly on cue, at low damage if Yoshi does not DI the throw than most cases he's able to absorb the Uair from Pikachu and retaliate, however if Yoshi DI's away depending on damage, then yes Axe's infamous U-throw - Uair - Regrab/Upsmash nonsense will mostly work, it's usually the Upsmash. ^^

 

[KirbyKaze]

It works better on Sheik because she can be U-throw U-smashed on the neutral DI/slight DIs that nullify the Uair regrab/U-smash.

 

[N64]

I have to point out, that I played a TON of DK vs. Pika recently, and the fact that cargo -> uthrow -> giant punch KO's in the 50's is kinda huge for DK considering that grab -> uair x infinite gets Pika into that KO range quickly.

If pika gets grabbed twice in one stock, he's pretty much dead unless you're on dreamland, regardless of whether or not DK has a giant punch. Uairs allll day. DK doesn't have much that reliably leads to grab, it's relatively easy to avoid. Pika shouldn't be getting grabbed often at all in the matchup.

And Pika > M2 works for me. I trust axe + vman super lots.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

cept for cc grabbing pikachus moveset

 

[N64]

cept for cc grabbing pikachus moveset

Yup. That's why you don't aerial DK's shield unless you're going to land behind him, or it's un-ccable (dair at higher percents, late uair otherwise). Dtilt outranges DK's grab as well.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

and its not like pikachu's moves are that safe on shields

edit: and what happens when DK starts CC dsmash/pivot grab/bair instead of just cc grab?

 

[KirbyKaze]

LMFAO DK cc d-smash

 

[N64]

dsmash is solid.

dk has a pivot grab? it takes him like a second to turn around.

bair's also ok, just pika's to short for it to work oos.

 

[ChivalRuse]

dk has a pivot grab? it takes him like a second to turn around.

Irrelevant. Anyone who has a pivot fsmash/ftilt has a pivot grab.

 

[KAOSTAR]

If you grab it should cancel the turning around animation. If not then just pivot shield grab.

Could be total bs, I dont care.

 

[otg]

If pika gets grabbed twice in one stock, he's pretty much dead unless you're on dreamland, regardless of whether or not DK has a giant punch. Uairs allll day. DK doesn't have much that reliably leads to grab, it's relatively easy to avoid. Pika shouldn't be getting grabbed often at all in the matchup.

And Pika > M2 works for me. I trust axe + vman super lots.

Word I def agree that pika doesn't get grabbed a lot, just food for thought. i def have no idea how the matchup plays out, and i dont have a problem with Pika > DK.

 

[N64]

Turning around at all -> grab takes too long with DK. Has anyone refuting it even tried it?

I don't see pivot grabbing being much of an issue though. If he's running away, why is pika following and not throwing a jolt at him.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Isn't DK's grab like only 1 frame slower than the standard? It's not impossible to grab Pikachu ...

 

[KAOSTAR]

LMAO. I tried to pick up DK but it was more of a joke. I played him against my friend who was picking up fox. I could pivot grab and **** with the upthrow but idk about grabbing pikachu.

I realized I probably didnt think his turn around speed was noticeably slow due to playing m2 4 forever.

 

[-ACE-]

I'm still not convinced that Ganon has anything more than a slight advantage over ICs. Imo the only matches worth referencing are those of Chu vs Linguini and Kage over the years.

/off topic

*vanishes*

 

[Divinokage]

I'm still not convinced that Ganon has anything more than a slight advantage over ICs. Imo the only matches worth referencing are those of Chu vs Linguini and Kage over the years.

/off topic

*vanishes*

But I think we already established Ganon >> ICs though.

 

[Kyu Puff]

I'm still not convinced that Ganon has anything more than a slight advantage over ICs. Imo the only matches worth referencing are those of Chu vs Linguini and Kage over the years.

/off topic

*vanishes*

Linguini beat Chu at Pound 4...

 

[ZoSo]

Dave-You dont EDGE GUARD puff. You create a wall with Marths sword so that she can't make it back onto the stage by keeping her either on the ledge or in the air.

"You don't EDGEGUARD her, you just prevent her from getting back on the stage."

OK, Garrett. Also you're doing that thing where you ignore all the other stuff I said that contradicted the stuff you said.

 

[KAOSTAR]

"You don't EDGEGUARD her, you just prevent her from getting back on the stage."

OK, Garrett. Also you're doing that thing where you ignore all the other stuff I said that contradicted the stuff you said.

Thats how you keep from losing an argument, duh lol.

 

[ChivalRuse]

"You don't EDGEGUARD her, you just prevent her from getting back on the stage."

I just realized how extremely silly this sounds.

 

[Roneblaster]

falcon is not >>> link

>> at best
> at worst
the autocombos arent so **** that the MU is >>>

everytime link hits falcon, he owns that spot and can get atleast one more hit, if not another hit or 2 to a grab.

not to mention the edgeguarding...god.

 

[t3h Icy]

Link vs Falcon:
Link vs Falcon is completely stupid. Falcon's nair is amazingly safe, hitting through or trading with Link's nair consistently, and trades lead to Falcon landing grabs because he WILL hit the ground first while Link is busy having a jab that takes far too long to come out, a roll that sucks and a very slow jump. Falcon dominates Link's aerials when below him. His uair hits through every one of Link's moves. Projectiles are null and void because the time it takes to throw a boomerang is longer than the time it takes a DDing falcon to grab/nair Link. Knees on the shield are unpunishable due to Link's slow OOS game, same with nairs.

If Link is given space and the time to get projectiles out he can control the pace for as long as he has a bomb in his hands, but after the bomb explodes he'd better be able to combo or pull another because he's just helpless if he tries to pull without cover. Falcon can also combo into the knee from throws against Link, which means Link's fantastic recovery is pretty much worthless. Falcon can also edgeguard the hookshot with ease.

Again, matchup knowledge is extremely important. Falcons who have no idea how to play against Link can get their **** ruined. Falcons who know how to play against Link will laugh and win with relative ease.

This always comes up, and there hasn't been much about it since Skler's post so it's been left for awhile.

 

[Pink Reaper]

ive played the kirby mewtwo match up enough to know that kirby has the advantage. its a slight advantage though.

coming in from waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay late im gonna disagree with this post.

Campy M2 > Kirby.

Literally cant do anything about it and on a stage like BF where M2 has Teleport options if the m2 plays gay Kirby loses.

That said, non Campy M2 < Kirby but not by much, probably closer to = than <.

 

[Cosmo!]

falcon >>> link for sure imo

 

[-ACE-]

But I think we already established Ganon >> ICs though.

I've already established that your opinions are somewhat biased lol. I know you wreck IC mains all the time but you don't wreck top knotch IC mains that have a LOT of ganon experience (and unfortunately there aren't many that meet that criteria, which is why I made the comment about only referencing matches between you and Chu and Linguini and Chu) all the time. Whats your count with Chu over the years?

Linguini beat Chu at Pound 4...

True. He's also lost to Chu before, when Chu had less rust.

Trust me, I think Ganon wins. But imo it's a closer matchup than people think. It's not that important really, I just looked at the chart and to me it is the only imperfection for Ganondorf's matches. I mean you guys put Ganon vs IC's in the same catagory as Ganon vs GaW, Mewtwo, and Roy. Kage used to say Ganon vs Roy is 90/10 lol. Just sayin.

 

[P. O. F.]

DK's recovery is bad

He has sick recovery... unless he's fighting CFalcon (Dair), Ganon (Dair), or Sheik (aerial needles).

Both of these statements are horribly wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B60KAlxSnqk

Donkey Kongs recovery is beyond underrated. It's not Fox's, Marths, or Jigglypuffs but DK has amazing mobility while doing his recovery and can do a lot of things while UpBing and trick people many different ways. It's not like Ganons or Falcons where its incredibly obvious where they are going. DK's recovery is not "sick!" but it certaintly does not "suck"

Bowsers is worse because he falls faster and is heavier. Roy, Kirby, Sheik, GAW, Ice Climbers, Luigi, Doc, Falcon, Ganon all have worse recoveries IMO.

I think DK is a solid character and does well against all characters aside from like Jigs, Fox, IC's, and Falco.

 

[SleepyK]

that's a bad reference video because it's clear scar doesn't know how to edgeguard DK very well.

 

[Roneblaster]

i play with a link of an equal skill level all the time, i still say >>

edit well let me put it like this then.

if falcon is >>> link.

then falco, fox, and sheik are all >>> Falcon.

because it takes more ****ing up of your opponent to win than it does what you do.

Icy, on a some-what related note. the joke is over. Sheik is >> Falcon again.

 

[NJzFinest]

POF, I think you took what I said a little to seriously lol

And RockCrock vs Scar is a much better example then that.

I think a know a good deal about his recovery haha.

LMFAO DK cc d-smash

It's surprisingly decent. I remember Mexican saying something about using it vs Sheik, so I used it on a Sheik in tourney and it was pretty hilarious to see how it worked kinda, until the Sheik started using grabs more...

 

[A2ZOMG]

Why is Sheik >> Falcon? All I know about the matchup is that Sheik really really hates getting juggled by Falcon.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

at a2zomg sheik can tilt his air moves and start comboing or grabbing. Also I wouldn't be surprized if sheik's duck messed him up.


Also again change the match-up pichu vs falcon to pichu<<falcon, they both can do ugly things to each other, pichu won't every get edge gaurded if he is any good. they both can chain throw each other but pichu's chain throw is much easier and doable, and the up move combo on falcon can be pretty deadly. i've 0-deathed a falcon once. Or was it a 7% to death? Falcon also has problems landing attacks because pichu is to short to hit many times. And this isn't like pichu can't keep up with falcon at all.

there's just no reason it should be labeled as falcon>>>pichu, def. pichu<<falcon.

 

[Cosmo!]

edit well let me put it like this then.

if falcon is >>> link.

then falco, fox, and sheik are all >>> Falcon.

LOL ***** falcon mains

 

[MEXICAN]

Random things i disagree with....DK can't u air juggle pikachu, so 1 grab only equals 1 u air unless the pikachu doesn't know how to di or forgets that he has a jump button. DK's recovery does NOT suck. If you think that he is easily edgeguarded, play me for awhile and you'll probably get pissed off at how long i'm surviving. I'm not really worried about d airs from anyone hitting me because i'd just ledge tech it, i'm very consistent with ledge techs (see me vs silentspectre for an example). The only character that i can think of off of the top of my head that really ***** dk's recovery is ganon, he was built to edgeguard dk, which is why ganon has a definite advantage over dk. lol. CC dsmash is solid with dk if you know where to use it. It comes out pretty quickly and dk is so heavy that he can CC a lot...Its no cc dsmash from samus, but its still really good nonetheless. Oh..and i'm pretty sure that DK falls faster than bowser...I think dk is tied with roy for the 4th fastest faller...i could be wrong on that. lol. And no...dk does not do well on falco, especially if falco knows the matchup even slightly

 

[LumpyCPU...]

And no...dk does not do well on falco, especially if falco knows the matchup even slightly

or if he puts in the code for unlimited ammo. hehe

 

[ChivalRuse]

Among other things, CC dsmash is reliable for KOing Puff. Dsmash in general is just good, but very underused. Good speed, good range, can combo some characters at low percents ...

 

[N64]

I must suck at DI. : /, regardless of how many matches i've played against kwan, he'll hit with at least 2 uairs after a low percent grab almost always, followed by either a third uair or fair dependant on DI. At higher percents only 1 to 2 connect, but that's enough to kill.