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Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.
- Thread starter t3h Icy
- Start date
- Status
giuocob
Smash Journeyman
Rappster are you serious
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
im on a mobile and im mad. couldn't even get to the bottom of the page.
A Pimp Named Slickback
Smash Lord
thanks bro!
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
Rappster... you forgot the second post...
thesage
Smash Hero
"and in no was is Zelda < ness it's eqaul at worst. Can't believe people fell for that. we can compare that to buying into kirbys soft advantage v sheik. A joke"
My browser fails and doesn't load the quote button. Srry.
Ness just has to get into the lead to be able to platform camp Zelda. They both have an equal amount of difficulty landing a hit on each other, but if Ness lands the first hit, and he's good enough at wavelanding/wavedashing, he can effectively platform camp Zelda ala pink shinobi vs. rockcrock.
Zelda will be spacing with fair/bair for the majority of the match. Can't really think of what else she does.
This isn't even covering the shffl fair combos Ness has on Zelda, d-tilt, pkt juggling, and variety in kill moves (uair, bair, bat, b-throw). You can outspace kicks with fair by hitting her legs.
Zelda has... well everybody knows what she has lol.
They both edgeguard each other really well though.
If you try to say that Zelda can teleport to Ness to counter platform camping I'm going to facepalm.
How can a matchup where on most stages (only FoD and FD are exempt) getting the first hit wins the match not be an advantage for that character. It's almost like saying Fox vs. anybody else on Hyrule is even.
My browser fails and doesn't load the quote button. Srry.
Ness just has to get into the lead to be able to platform camp Zelda. They both have an equal amount of difficulty landing a hit on each other, but if Ness lands the first hit, and he's good enough at wavelanding/wavedashing, he can effectively platform camp Zelda ala pink shinobi vs. rockcrock.
Zelda will be spacing with fair/bair for the majority of the match. Can't really think of what else she does.
This isn't even covering the shffl fair combos Ness has on Zelda, d-tilt, pkt juggling, and variety in kill moves (uair, bair, bat, b-throw). You can outspace kicks with fair by hitting her legs.
Zelda has... well everybody knows what she has lol.
They both edgeguard each other really well though.
If you try to say that Zelda can teleport to Ness to counter platform camping I'm going to facepalm.
How can a matchup where on most stages (only FoD and FD are exempt) getting the first hit wins the match not be an advantage for that character. It's almost like saying Fox vs. anybody else on Hyrule is even.
shehehe11
Smash Apprentice
i like how this thread keeps on deviating back to zelda.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
We should have a separate thread for Zelda's match-ups, as well as yet another thread solely for Zelda vs. Mewtwo.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
the last 3 posts have been the best posts so far in this thread gg
LOl so much zelda love <3
SO heres the scoop for the hugs set
First match goes marth vs samus
I honestly hit him 4 times
....
...
Im like "Uhh...brinstar?"
I pick zelda
Cause zelda is the best character in the game
we have a close match for some reason....hugs doesnt die n stuff but i snag the win
We have a quasi close match on FD and hugs still doesnt die but i take a few stocks
Hugs is a on another lvl then me, he 2-0ed everyone in our pool except me
The only reason i stood a chance is cause the matchup is FAR from samus > zelda
but ill tell you what
That matchup is hard as crap for samus because of the punishing factor
floaties can get like KICK comboed and edgeguarding samus with zelda is like play a carnival game (dins fire is useful in a matchup WTF?!)
Even hugs got kicked out of shield
and that man is very very good with samus
lol thats all im sayin
Oh both mario and doc > zelda
cause marios taunt and docs gay *** down tilt :/
Theres nothing zelda can do against it ):
SO heres the scoop for the hugs set
First match goes marth vs samus
I honestly hit him 4 times
....
...
Im like "Uhh...brinstar?"
I pick zelda
Cause zelda is the best character in the game
we have a close match for some reason....hugs doesnt die n stuff but i snag the win
We have a quasi close match on FD and hugs still doesnt die but i take a few stocks
Hugs is a on another lvl then me, he 2-0ed everyone in our pool except me
The only reason i stood a chance is cause the matchup is FAR from samus > zelda
but ill tell you what
That matchup is hard as crap for samus because of the punishing factor
floaties can get like KICK comboed and edgeguarding samus with zelda is like play a carnival game (dins fire is useful in a matchup WTF?!)
Even hugs got kicked out of shield
and that man is very very good with samus
lol thats all im sayin
Oh both mario and doc > zelda
cause marios taunt and docs gay *** down tilt :/
Theres nothing zelda can do against it ):
t3h Icy
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2009
- Messages
- 4,917
Here are Dogysamich's opinions (from his thread) that currently conflict with the chart's, and the match-up in the bracket is what it currently is.
Doc = Fox (Doc < Fox)
Doc < Marth (Doc << Marth)
Doc = Falco (Doc < Falco)
Doc = Peach (Doc < Peach
Doc = Jigglypuff (Doc < Jigglypuff)
Doc > ICs (Doc = ICs)
Doc = Ganondorf (Doc < Ganondorf)
Doc = Link (Doc > Link)
Doc = Young Link (Doc > Young Link)
Doc = Zelda (Doc > Zelda)
And just to recap, here's where we're at:
DK = Doc
Doc = Jigglypuff
Doc >>> Ness
Doc = Zelda
DK > Luigi
Link > Samus
Samus > Mario
Ness > Zelda
Doc = Fox (Doc < Fox)
Doc < Marth (Doc << Marth)
Doc = Falco (Doc < Falco)
Doc = Peach (Doc < Peach
Doc = Jigglypuff (Doc < Jigglypuff)
Doc > ICs (Doc = ICs)
Doc = Ganondorf (Doc < Ganondorf)
Doc = Link (Doc > Link)
Doc = Young Link (Doc > Young Link)
Doc = Zelda (Doc > Zelda)
And just to recap, here's where we're at:
DK = Doc
Doc = Jigglypuff
Doc >>> Ness
Doc = Zelda
DK > Luigi
Link > Samus
Samus > Mario
Ness > Zelda
i think all of dogy's are right except for spacies
otg
Smash Master
Agrees, *waits for people to tell the doc mains they are wrong*
Oh but I disagree with some of his lower tier matchups, like pika/ness and a few others, but I've already stated my opinion on that.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
remember a few pages back when we were arguing that every matchup approaches equal as we go higher in skill?
interestng....
Heres what i dont understand about this thread.
Lower tier'd mains come in and give their opinions on the matchup, and you make comments like this. While i completely agree that the respective mains of each char should hold more say, what is bugging me is the fact that this isnt the first time we are discussin fox vs doc (for example).
indeed, when Fox was being discussed, the conclusion was NOT that doc = fox. same with all the other low tiers and their respestive matchups with high tiers.
Seems like the further down we go, people keep saying stuff like "only the mains of these chars should have any say" and we change the chart based on what one respected main says about a particular matchup. (see:hugs). But when it was discussed from the high tier perspective, none of the same conclusions were drawn...
so im confused to say the least as to why low tier opinions on matchups hold more wieght than when we were discussing the higher tiers
t3h Icy
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2009
- Messages
- 4,917
Here's a link to Dogy's list of match-ups for Doc, Mario and Kirby.
One problem I noticed though is he has Mario vs Kirby Slight Advantage, and Kirby vs Mario Disadvantage.
I should also mention that Doc's match-ups in that link are different from what I posted just a few posts up, since I got the match-ups up there from his thread, not this link.
One problem I noticed though is he has Mario vs Kirby Slight Advantage, and Kirby vs Mario Disadvantage.
I should also mention that Doc's match-ups in that link are different from what I posted just a few posts up, since I got the match-ups up there from his thread, not this link.
thesage
Smash Hero
I still don't get why Doc >>> Ness. Where was that mentioned at all? I have nearly 0 experience in the matchup but from what Dogy (who seems to be referred to a lot by doc mains) who I know also plays Ness a little said that matchup is near even with doc having a slight advantage. Explain this plz.
yea i dont think doc >>> ness
ness outranges does and doc isn't really faster
its def one of those things where ppl think that since doc is a much higer tiered character he shud **** ness.
doc > ness
edit: tho docs cc game vs ness is pretty broken lol so it might be >>. i've never actually played this match up but i main both ness and doc so w/e
max we shudda played this match up lmao
ness outranges does and doc isn't really faster
its def one of those things where ppl think that since doc is a much higer tiered character he shud **** ness.
doc > ness
edit: tho docs cc game vs ness is pretty broken lol so it might be >>. i've never actually played this match up but i main both ness and doc so w/e
max we shudda played this match up lmao
otg
Smash Master
How does Ness outrange Doc? Fsmash? Gtfo, his recovery is worse then Docs, he gets CCed to **** and im pretty sure doc has a cg on him too. Like I don't get how you guys could say any of ness matchups are beyond >> when you have a character who relies on DJC and has the worst recovery in the game.
ness fair out ranges docs everything and is disjointed
Rappster
Smash Ace
i'm sorry everyone, but nobody seemed to actually be reading it when ppl linked dogy . . . .
otg
Smash Master
It def doesn't outrange it, I think it's just disjointed and he can maneuver around with it really well due to DJC. I'm also pretty sure that it doesn't beat out or clank with pills, so that poses a problem for him. Outside of fair (which is like REALLY negligible imo), he loses the up close game (docs jab ***** him, and if he tries to jump out he just gets sniped by an uair), has negative grab range and can't really combo doc besides tech chasing and potentially some uair nonsense if he gets doc above him without a DJ... somehow.
otg
Smash Master
I agree that his bair mixup noise is really annoying, but remember that things like pills/jabs/ftilt/etc turn ness around, so it's not guaranteed that he will always have his back turned to you to cope with that ****.
Caping Ness's DJC is mad funny too.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Lol. I think this chart would finish faster than the zelda vs m2.
MalwareDie
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- May 28, 2010
- Messages
- 66
VGmasta
Smash Lord
Why is Ness <<< Doc ?!?!?! I don't think Ness has it that bad vs Doc. Ness's aerials do actually defend against some of Doc's approaches, and it's pretty bad for Doc to ever go above Ness.
It feels like
DK = Doc
Roy < Doc
Ness < Doc
But maybe I dunno what I'm doing.... *shrugs*
It feels like
DK = Doc
Roy < Doc
Ness < Doc
But maybe I dunno what I'm doing.... *shrugs*
My opinion on losing to TheLake's zelda is that I lost because i was taken to a goofy stage like brinstar. In no way, shape, or form did I feel zelda gave me difficulty as a character. But as the lake said, I'm on a different level, so I can't comment on the match up. I won the set by going to some other stage, don't really remember where I went, and I'm almost certain it was a 2 stock. The vids are out somewhere.
I've never played a zelda that gave me trouble. If you play with something goofy, and take me to a goofy stage, you might stand a chance.
It's so gay dude. First I'm getting 6-0'd multiple times by Silent Spectre, then I never beat good falcos, then I have never taken a set from Homemadewafflez, now I got ***** by TheLake's zelda at Pound 4.
Why the **** are my records so confusing to you people?
I've never played a zelda that gave me trouble. If you play with something goofy, and take me to a goofy stage, you might stand a chance.
And LOL @ Lovage
It's so gay dude. First I'm getting 6-0'd multiple times by Silent Spectre, then I never beat good falcos, then I have never taken a set from Homemadewafflez, now I got ***** by TheLake's zelda at Pound 4.
Why the **** are my records so confusing to you people?
Magus420
Smash Master
Are people actually buying this ****? Good luck with that, lol.
otg
Smash Master
Ya, you're probably better off doing what the rest of the Docs are doing and just not saying anything. I'll let everyone else handle it, they seem to know more then the Docs anyway.
Hugs, in all fairness I just got confused with Shroomed and Waffles, I knew one them had beaten you recently. Yeah controller johns w'e, you're **** and everyone knows it, who gives a ****?
giuocob
Smash Journeyman
Please do not let them get away with Fox = Doc and Falco = Doc...this chart has actually had some credibility up until now.
Pi
Smash Hero
I think this chart should show everyone having a HUGE advantage over EVERYONE
that way when you LOSE you know it's because you're BAD
that way when you LOSE you know it's because you're BAD
Niko45
Smash Master
this is too funny
otg
Smash Master
lol, and with that I'm done.
giuocob
Smash Journeyman
The Good Doctor
Smash Champion
Lets not go there again Kao...haha
Dark Hart
Rejected by Azua
omfg I love Zelda LET'S DO THIIIIIS!!!!
Cosmo!
nerf zelda's dsmash
thesage seems to be heavily exaggerating but Ness is capable of keeping a lead vs. Zelda. it's not like there will be no more hits in the match (lol wtf) but Ness will have an advantage in all clashes from that point forward as long as he is patient and plays the runaway game properly.
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