Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.

[NJzFinest]

I agree, but I will say that Y.Link doesn't really have to worry about landing a KO, it's stupid easy vs. the fat monkey with no shield.

lol, his shield poop but it's because of his size and lack of a forward approach is what makes it as easy as it is for YLink. I use both characters and would feel much more comfortable being the YLink
But because of what I mentioned earlier, I don't think the matchup is anything worse than 60/40.
I think it would be best to have Jash comment on this. One of the top YLinks and has Bum experience / beat Bum lol

 

[otg]

Yeah I'm with you, I personally think its Y.Link >> DK personally, but I'd like to see what Jash or other DK's have to say. I know Laijin has commented that he feels its terrible for DK.

 

[t3h Icy]

Updated:

Falco >> Falcon
Fox >> Falcon
Jigglypuff > Marth
Sheik > Falcon

Discussing Peach now. Match-ups in brackets are from previous discussions.

Peach >>> Kirby
Peach >>> Pichu
Peach >>> Roy
Peach >>> Yoshi (Peach >> Yoshi)
Peach >> Bowser
Peach >> G&W
Peach >> Ice Climbers
Peach >> Mewtwo
Peach >> Ness
Peach >> Zelda
Peach > DK
Peach > Link
Peach > Luigi
Peach > Mario
Peach > Pikachu
Peach > Young Link (Peach = Young Link)
Peach = Doc
Peach = Falco
Peach = Falcon (Peach < Falcon)
Peach = Ganondorf
Peach = Jigglypuff
Peach = Samus
Peach < Fox
Peach < Marth
Peach < Sheik

 

[john!]

4 changes that immediately spring to mind as a Peach main.

Peach > Ice Climbers
Possibly IC's worst matchup, but I don't think it's quite that bad for IC's if they know how to play the matchup, being very evasive and spacing aerials instead of trying for a grab. I think IC's are just underused as a character. Very close to >> and I might be wrong on this one.

Peach > Doc
Peach's aerials are very effective against Doc, and pill spamming isn't effective. She edgeguards him very well too. I've beaten Doc players that were probably better than me at that time. Dthrow to kobe usually doesn't work. His gimping potential is also lowered. Bair in particular is very effective against Doc.

Peach < Falcon
I hate this matchup. Peach has no response to smart DD camping by Falcon. Turnips have too much plucking lag and if she floats it's a free uair for Falcon. His nair alone seems to outprioritize all her aerials. He combos at low percents and kills her from grab at ~90. He just runs circles around Peach...

Peach > Jigglypuff
I love this matchup. I think Puff is top tier but I also think Peach is one of her worst matchups. Puff can't edgeguard or gimp a smart Peach. Peach can run away and pluck a turnip because she's actually faster! Her aerials compete with Puff's and she also can avoid rest combos pretty easily.

Let me know if you want me to elaborate... these are my personal experiences so it would be nice if a pro Peach could come in and give their opinion.

Oh and Jigglypuff > Marth?! When did we discuss that?

 

[otg]

I agree with Peach > Doc.

 

[t3h Icy]

Oh and Jigglypuff > Marth?! When did we discuss that?

It was dragged along for awhile, but I didn't change it until now.

 

[unknown522]

IMO:

peach > mario/doc. Though it's 55-45 IMO.
peach < falco. I changed my mind on that some time ago
peach << fox
peach << marth
peach > M2
peach > zelda
peach >> kirby
peach < jiggs
peach >> yoshi

 

[Animal]

does the versions of melee hinder peaches peach vs sheik matchup? or any matchups in general enough to change the percentages of it?

 

[KAOSTAR]

Peach has more of an advantage on m2 than that.

Peach >>M2

 

[Winston]

peach > mario/doc. Though it's 55-45 IMO.

Isn't it kind of a big deal whether it's Mario or Doc? Doc at least has fair, how is Mario KOing peach?

I don't know the matchup at all so I'm asking. I guess Mario can try to land fsmash, but is there a reliable way for him to do that?

 

[DTR]

i personally think peach has no << matchups but she gets < vs fox, shiek, marth, and possibly falcon. none of those are unwinnable by any means but they arent easy. i used to think jiggs had the adv just because peach cant punish rest at all but its pretty hard for jiggs to land one

 

[NJzFinest]

Peach vs Puff can go either way imo. I always thought it was slight advantage Peach though.

Also, Peach does not > IC.... Peach>>ICs lol. That matchup is freaking gay.


edit:

I just noticed this list is saying Ganondorf does better against both space animals than CFalcon... haha

 

[VGmasta]

Peach > Doc
Peach's aerials are very effective against Doc, and pill spamming isn't effective. She edgeguards him very well too. I've beaten Doc players that were probably better than me at that time. Dthrow to kobe usually doesn't work. His gimping potential is also lowered. Bair in particular is very effective against Doc.

I agree with Peach > Doc.

Yeah, what these two guys said.
Peach wears the pants in the Doc and Peach relationship: Peach > Doc

 

[TheManaLord]

Peach vs Puff can go either way imo. I always thought it was slight advantage Peach though.

Also, Peach does not > IC.... Peach>>ICs lol. That matchup is freaking gay.


edit:

I just noticed this list is saying Ganondorf does better against both space animals than CFalcon... haha

Yeah, haven't gotten to gdorfs matchups yet.

 

[idea]

Peach > Jigglypuff
I love this matchup. I think Puff is top tier but I also think Peach is one of her worst matchups. Puff can't edgeguard or gimp a smart Peach. Peach can run away and pluck a turnip because she's actually faster! Her aerials compete with Puff's and she also can avoid rest combos pretty easily.

i'd put it as jiggs > peach. or possibly jiggs = peach. but...

peach can't really get past bair spam. and what's even worse than bair spam for peach is if the puff waits till she tries to set up a fair, and either bairs her first, or bairs her just after she misses (better), neither of which is terribly hard with puff's great air mobility. she can pull turnips, but she has to hit with them too, and that's pretty hard with, again, air mobility, and with jiggs being able to stop turnips with all of her aerials (not that you'd ever do that with dair, but afaik it would work).

her other aerials compete with puff's other aerials, maybe, but not with puff's bair.

you're right, jiggs can't easily gimp her, but it's not like she has to. peach can't either. same with rest, it's hard for jiggs to rest peach, but she doesn't need anything that powerful to even the playing field. the matchup is mostly a spacing war, or more specifically, peach's fair vs. jigglypuff's bair. and one of those goes notably farther than the other. *points to hungrybox's signature...if he hasn't changed it yet*

but yeah, peach does have turnips and fair and lives longer than jiggs while being able to escape most of her combos...so even is arguable. but i'd say jiggs > peach.

 

[DTR]

id put peach/jiggs at 55-45 in jiggs favor because of her bair which means = for this chart

 

[TheManaLord]

If jiggs > marth even just barely then jiggs definitely > peach

 

[Merkuri]

If jiggs > marth even just barely then jiggs definitely > peach

Quoted for truth. Also people jigs landing a rest on Peach isn't that hard, Jigs can just up-tilt to rest her like she does on all floaties. Jigs also > Peach because the match up has a one-way edge guard, Jigs can edge guard peach while Peach can't edge guard Jigs. There is no way this is an even match Jigs > Peach.

 

[DTR]

when would a peach player ever be in a position to get hit by jiggs utilt? peach actually has pretty nice recovery vs jiggs compared to most other people. 45-55

+ jiggs is definitely not > with marth. its = at worst

 

[john!]

i'd put it as jiggs > peach. or possibly jiggs = peach. but...

peach can't really get past bair spam. and what's even worse than bair spam for peach is if the puff waits till she tries to set up a fair, and either bairs her first, or bairs her just after she misses (better), neither of which is terribly hard with puff's great air mobility. she can pull turnips, but she has to hit with them too, and that's pretty hard with, again, air mobility, and with jiggs being able to stop turnips with all of her aerials (not that you'd ever do that with dair, but afaik it would work).

her other aerials compete with puff's other aerials, maybe, but not with puff's bair.

you're right, jiggs can't easily gimp her, but it's not like she has to. peach can't either. same with rest, it's hard for jiggs to rest peach, but she doesn't need anything that powerful to even the playing field. the matchup is mostly a spacing war, or more specifically, peach's fair vs. jigglypuff's bair. and one of those goes notably farther than the other. *points to hungrybox's signature...if he hasn't changed it yet*

but yeah, peach does have turnips and fair and lives longer than jiggs while being able to escape most of her combos...so even is arguable. but i'd say jiggs > peach.

I live near a good Puff player so it's possible that I have "experience bias". But I think the lack of top level Peaches (other than Armada, who was 1 hit away from beating Mango's Puff) is making people underestimate her. The thing about turnip is that it controls space, either cutting off Puff's movement or baiting an aerial. Peach's dash attack is also quite nice as long as Puff is low in the air. Most of the things that make Puff so gay are negated by Peach.

Theory Bros. aside... I'd say 55-45 Peach... idk whether that's = or >.

Also I was the one who made hbox's signature fyi: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199342&page=437

 

[Roneblaster]

Peach < Falcon
I hate this matchup. Peach has no response to smart DD camping by Falcon. Turnips have too much plucking lag and if she floats it's a free uair for Falcon. His nair alone seems to outprioritize all her aerials. He combos at low percents and kills her from grab at ~90. He just runs circles around Peach...

uh, wut? I havent played any really good peaches consistently, but i have played vs peach alot and know a little bit about falcon.

1. Falcon's Nair Sucks
2. Peach has **** nasty priority

these 2 dont seem to = nair > peach

i do agree falcon is probably > peach, but mostly because she gets comboed mega easily when falcon gets dem hits

 

[DTR]

no. falcons nair is a pain in the a** with peach. it beats/trades with all her aerials and hurts her on the ground + easily lead into a grab. all peach can do is hope he misspaces and dash attack, try to do a retreating aerial, or try to move back->dsmash because the 2nd hit>ccing. if he is smart with it it makes things hard for peach

 

[NJzFinest]

It's not priority, it's range.

Nair is gay.

 

[Roneblaster]

well then your character sucks ****, cause nair is turrible.

 

[JPOBS]

why do people say "falcons nair has greta priority" or "falcons nair outprioritizes ___entire moveset" ?


falcon's nair blows, and peach has a truck load of priority up the shiznazz.
falcons nair cant directly beat or trade with anything, it just has a lot of range and combined with his horizontal movement, it can be everywhere all the time which can give the ILLUSION of it having lots of "priority" but he's really just beating you to the punch, but it doesnt outprioritize jack ****

 

[DTR]

but its still great vs peach no matter how terrible you guys say it is

 

[n1000]

"Peach > Young Link (Peach = Young Link)"

wait really

 

[JPOBS]

im not denying that its good vs peach and stuff, and its falcons best approach.

we're just saying the nair doesnt have good priority at all and as a move in and off itself its pretty mediocre but other attributes about falcon (i.e.dd-> nair->grab->death) makes the nair better than it is in a vacuum

 

[Divinokage]

I'm very sure landing upairs with Falcon is devastating for Peach... it should be like Ganon except little less power or knockback but WAY more speed mobility to get in and punish the **** out of peach.

 

[_lemons]

im not denying that its good vs peach and stuff, and its falcons best approach.

we're just saying the nair doesnt have good priority at all and as a move in and off itself its pretty mediocre but other attributes about falcon (i.e.dd-> nair->grab->death) makes the nair better than it is in a vacuum

Why would you think about the move without considering the attributes of the character it belongs to?

 

[TheManaLord]

Falcon > peach

and falcon definitely > pika we went over it already

 

[NJzFinest]

well then your character sucks ****, cause nair is turrible.

Then CFalcon is turrible, it's probably his most spammed move lol.

 

[otg]

Then CFalcon is turrible, it's probably his most spammed move lol.

I agree .

 

[JPOBS]

Why would you think about the move without considering the attributes of the character it belongs to?

because a lot of times, a move is pretty mediocre but used well.

For example, falcons nairs. low priority. If you try to throw this move out willy nilly, you'll get *****. It can easily be CC'd and *****. it has mediocre start up. cant be used effectively out of sheild.
the move itself is pretty darn bad. thats why me and reneblade say things like "nair is bad". The thing is though, because of falcons speed, it can be utilized in situations like punishing baits, or closing the distance of opponents when they whiff something. This is NOT a property of the nair itself, its just a factor or other things.

but then look at moves like falco's dair , foxs nair, marths dtilt/fair, jiggs BAIR

some moves are intrinsically good for obvious reasons (high priority, crazy range/disjointed, high KO ability, 0 startup/cooldown etc) without taking into account any other character attributes

other moves arent really all that great but they work given other specifics.

 

[idea]

Quoted for truth. Also people jigs landing a rest on Peach isn't that hard, Jigs can just up-tilt to rest her like she does on all floaties. Jigs also > Peach because the match up has a one-way edge guard, Jigs can edge guard peach while Peach can't edge guard Jigs. There is no way this is an even match Jigs > Peach.

nah. jiggs' (falling) upair and uptilt are beaten by peach's crouch cancel + dsmash. and peaches like spamming that, too, so it's hard even to surprise them with up-hitting moves. you can kind of jump behind them and uptilt against their shield, and catch them out of their jump, but that requires peach to make like three mistakes in a row =P

I live near a good Puff player so it's possible that I have "experience bias". But I think the lack of top level Peaches (other than Armada, who was 1 hit away from beating Mango's Puff) is making people underestimate her. The thing about turnip is that it controls space, either cutting off Puff's movement or baiting an aerial. Peach's dash attack is also quite nice as long as Puff is low in the air. Most of the things that make Puff so gay are negated by Peach.

Theory Bros. aside... I'd say 55-45 Peach... idk whether that's = or >.

Also I was the one who made hbox's signature fyi: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199342&page=437

haha, cool. i remember laughing at that hitbox the first time i looked it up. there's a whole circle that's not even touching her leg...

and the thing about turnips controlling space...well...they don't stop jiggs from jumping even further away from her

i can see how dash attack could be okay while she's in the air...as long as one doesn't misjudge that and hit jiggs once she's gotten to the ground, cause that's a free rest oos. heh, i forgot about resting peach's dash attack out of shield.

I'm very sure landing upairs with Falcon is devastating for Peach... it should be like Ganon except little less power or knockback but WAY more speed mobility to get in and punish the **** out of peach.

agreed, peach can't do **** about falcon's upair.

 

[john!]

Sorry if I confused "priority" and "range", but it's still very effective against Peach (along with uair) and leads into some nasty combos.

 

[Wschl]

Its just that Falcon can Outcamp Peach without Projectiles lol.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Falcon's spaced Nair trumps a whole lot of stuff.

JPOBS, Falcons chuck Nair out at literally everything all the time. Often even when there isn't anything even there. It often beats stuff when the opposing hitbox is still out, especially near the toes and slightly below it (or above it, if you're looking at the second hit). Its hitbox is fine.

 

[Kason Birdman]

yeah, i will nair at any given time. maing Falcon is kind of like having turrets. you just can't controll your self and have to constantly be nairing at absolutely nothing and everything

 

[Nintendude]

4 changes that immediately spring to mind as a Peach main.

Peach > Ice Climbers
Possibly IC's worst matchup, but I don't think it's quite that bad for IC's if they know how to play the matchup, being very evasive and spacing aerials instead of trying for a grab. I think IC's are just underused as a character. Very close to >> and I might be wrong on this one.

LOL there's no way Peach is only that bad for ICs. Peach is undoubtedly a >> matchup. Peach's fc'd aerials completely shuts them down and leaves very little room to punish anything. A single down-smash can really mess them up especially because it turns Nana around, so it gimps Nana really easily. Her edgeguarding is really tough to get around since she can just keep nairing them back off over and over and ICs don't really have a good way to edgeguard her other than to just read her perfectly. She ends up pushing you into corners since it's really hard to do anything about her approaching you except get out of the way or space a fair or smash perfectly, which is really risky.

The real question is whether or not it is Peach >>> ICs or Peach >> ICs, but I think ICs have the tools to make it manageable. They still kill her really fast off of a grab and she isn't as hard to grab as some other characters are.