Marth's Tier Placement Discussion

[Steel]

SS Tier
Meta Knight 15.00

S Tier
Snake 13.91

A Tier
Falco 13.03
King Dedede 12.94
Mr. Game & Watch 12.50
Marth 12.09
Diddy Kong 11.94

B Tier
Wario 11.47
R.O.B. 11.38

Not copy pasting the rest..

Tier placement doesn't really matter obv, but this looks pretty good to me. While we beat Falco and GW pretty handily they are overall better characters than Marth. We're also rightfully above that robot.

I've no complaints, /discuss.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I have complaints. Seriously...Marth the 6th best characters? Olimar, Diddy > him imo and Wario is also better. Seriously the new list sucks even harder than the first one.

 

[Sigrid Fiinikkusu]

lol that Rob fell so much. At least Marth looks to be doing well though.

 

[Freezewish]

I have complaints. Seriously...Marth the 6th best characters? Olimar, Diddy > him imo and Wario is also better. Seriously the new list sucks even harder than the first one.

How exactly are Wario Diddy and Olimar better than Marth?

 

[Steel]

Wario especially.. wtf?

 

[Cherry64]

Agree'd on the stupid robot comment, how he is in that tear is beyond me. I like the second better personally but I think that Olimar should be higher, a good Olimar is tough to beat.

 

[Scott!]

Yeah, I don't see the problem with Marth's spot at all. Thinking about it, I think it might, considering how things are now, be just about as accurate as it could be. And it's not like he went up a lot at all. Just one spot. Unless him being 7th best last time gave you problems too. But I like his placing. This list has its problems, but Marth isn't one of them.

 

[Nefarious B]

I was just surprised Wario stayed so high... ROB was going to drop only because Diddy got placed so low to begin with, but 3 spots is a bit more than I was expecting

 

[BBoyindo]

I didn't expect Marth to move up actually, even though it is because Rob dropped. Especially after seeing the character rankings, i expected him to fall. I'm glad it didn't happen though, Marth is just too awsum for that

 

[∫unk]

while We Beat Falco Pretty Handily

lo l

 

[Freezewish]

I dont think the character rankings list thats shown now had any effect on thhis tier list placement. You should look at the Fall 2008 rankings list for the most accurate standings. Marth is actually 4th on that list.( Tied with falco)

 

[BBoyindo]

I dont think the character rankings list thats shown now had any effect on thhis tier list placement. You should look at the Fall 2008 rankings list for the most accurate standings. Marth is actually 4th on that list.( Tied with falco)

Yeah you're right, but it still worried me a bit.

 

[Cherry64]

I like where e is as well, just fits, he's got no projectiles and if the other person is good with projectiles there's usually only the aerial approach which isn't bad for marth but kinda screws you after a while.

 

[Steel]

lo l

I see wat u did here

 

[Mazaloth]

I believe more SHFFFairs and zoning are needed....

 

[grandmaster192]

Pretty good to me.

I just don't like the letter format they used for this tier list. I also don't like MK and Snake getting there own tiers. That doesn't make any sense.

Geb, there's no way Wario or Olimar are better than Marth. Diddy Kong might be but he's 7th, and one spot isn't a big deal.

 

[VietGeek]

It makes sense when they have significantly larger averages than other characters, meaning they're considered overall better characters.

Out of a 15 average, MK scored...15. If he doesn't get his own tier for that I don't know what deserves its own tier.

Snake almost rounds up to 14. He doesn't have a "perfect" score like MK so there's a large difference for him to MK and him to the rest of the cast. Same reason.

After that the averages are all pretty close so...I'm not explaining. ^_^

I wanna be NORCAL PRO now. New dreams. ._.

 

[Pr0phetic]

I feel Marth is and should be 4th on the tier list. He's better then Falco and Mr.GnW. That list is messed up aswell.

 

[Freezewish]

I feel Marth is and should be 4th on the tier list. He's better then Falco and Mr.GnW. That list is messed up aswell.

Better than Game and Watch?

I dont think so. His recovery is way too good and nearly impossible to gimp. Great priority on aerials and smash attacks. Smashes kill at stupid low percents. And he has very few bad matchups. Add bucket braking and good DI and he's not as easy to kill as you think. Very fast running speed. And i havent even mentioned his great tech chasing ability with his dthrow. Quite honestly i feel Game and Watch is a better character than D3 and Falco, let alone Marth.

And falco...

Well he has bread.

Quite honestly i feel Game and Watch is a better character than D3 and Falco, let alone Marth.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Falco, yes GnW owns. But Marth? When GnW is getting countered and swatted half way across the stage and back, what's gonna save his ***, a random Bair? Plus, he's so light, the easiest UTilt setup will kill him. Im sorry there's no way.

 

[Steel]

Uh, rukkiko you know how a tier list works right?

Just because marth beats GW doesn't mean GW isn't a better overall character than Marth is.

 

[Pr0phetic]

I know it works by tournament placings and overall play* not by match-ups.

However, I also know its by players on the same level, a lower tier would do worst then a higher tier, I honestly don't GnW beating Marth even then, and I know GnW is a great character, my brother plays him, but that's my opinion, I've been wrong before.

 

[Dark Ryu]

It does work by match ups silly.

 

[∫unk]

lol rukkiko you should probably stop talking <_<

im playing melee falco against lvl 6 fox i up b and he shines me near the edge wtf

 

[•Col•]

I know it works by tournament placings, not by match-ups.

It has to do with more than just Tournament placings... >_> Match-ups do play a factor... Not so much individual matchups, but more like how a character does against everyone as a whole. I suggest going to read the explanation of the tier list (which is conveniently placed in the tier list thread, right above the list). I would copy/paste it, but I'm lazy. D:

 

[Pr0phetic]

Then Marth wins all but three match-ups... Eh I just came from school, long day, and a little tired, im probably delirious, but I stick with my opinion.

 

[Dark Ryu]

- General potential of a character
- Tournament Placings
- Matchups
- ATs

This affects a character's position on the tier list.

 

[VietGeek]

Marth isn't where you want him to be because he only hard counters like...

3-5 characters in a ~37 character roster? GnW and Falco like ASSRAPE some characters while we're sipping tea over 60:40s that comprise over half of the roster.

No school johns man, school and me don't hang either. Oh, and I got PE this semester.

NOT CHILL.

 

[∫unk]

probably more like 55:45 on some of them

basically the better/more experienced player will win in almost any matchup vs marth

 

[Pr0phetic]

Marth isn't where you want him to be because he only hard counters like...

3-5 characters in a ~37 character roster? GnW and Falco like ASSRAPE some characters while we're sipping tea over 60:40s that comprise over half of the roster.

No school johns man, school and me don't hang either. Oh, and I got PE this semester.

NOT CHILL.

Lol if you went thru what i had to today, you'd call that john aswell, but you guys know more, who am I? Junk and everyone else are probably right, im still learning myself.

 

[grandmaster192]

It makes sense when they have significantly larger averages than other characters, meaning they're considered overall better characters.

Out of a 15 average, MK scored...15. If he doesn't get his own tier for that I don't know what deserves its own tier.

Snake almost rounds up to 14. He doesn't have a "perfect" score like MK so there's a large difference for him to MK and him to the rest of the cast. Same reason.

After that the averages are all pretty close so...I'm not explaining. ^_^

I wanna be NORCAL PRO now. New dreams. ._.

I think they both belong in the same tier.

The way they formatted this list makes it look like the entire top-tier is Meta Knight only, then high-tier Snake only; the rest of the characters mid tier. It's like SBR got lazy, so they decided to just slap some stuff together and mask it with the letter grades instead of the traditional top, high, ect. It just looks tacky to me.

 

[feardragon64]

>> at discussion above ^

Tier list honestly doesn't matter, but it's not too bad. I suppose I can live with it.

But seriously, wtf is with wario? >>.

 

[VietGeek]

I think they both belong in the same tier.

The way they formatted this list makes it look like the entire top-tier is Meta Knight only, then high-tier Snake only; the rest of the characters mid tier. It's like SBR got lazy, so they decided to just slap some stuff together and mask it with the letter grades instead of the traditional top, high, ect. It just looks tacky to me.

I honestly think the letter formatting and smaller division of tiers is better because the first tier list had a huge high and low tier, which gave the illusion some characters were better than others or worst overall (simply for being grouped in 'X' tier).

The letter tiers comes from the fact that there are so many tiers due to the reason above.

I honestly hope you don't think we're going to have to name stuff like High-Med Tier and then we're like - So yeah Pikachu is like in the middle of High-Med Tier.

That sounds tackier than this. xD

The list isn't perfect, especially toward the unknown (lower tiers), but imo it's a vast improvement over the last one.

Besides, I think the last one didn't divide up Snake & MK from the other top tiers simply due to the negative stigma and controversy at the time, which if made apparent enough as a tier division, some sh*t may have hit the fan more so.

I could say more about how the peak of the MK debate/HOBO 11 seemed really shady in its aftermath but unfortunately I didn't archive anything physically to look official in that case, oh and I suck at debating, go figure.

P.S - Wario is so amazing that no one can even grab him. There, justification of his placement...

not really. >>

 

[cman]

I have complaints. Seriously...Marth the 6th best characters? Olimar, Diddy > him imo and Wario is also better. Seriously the new list sucks even harder than the first one.

I haven't ever seen you list any concrete evidence for your opinions. And wario? Really?

 

[Dark Ryu]

Wario is were he should be. At least in my opinion.

 

[Remzi]

I am straight with his placement, he is exactly where I guessed he would be. I think most people including myself guessed the top 6 correctly. I think that Diddy and Olimar are SLIGHTLY worse than Marth, and that G&W is SLIHTLY better then Marth. Wario isn't even on our level though, I have no clue as to why Gheb would say that.

Not much to say here, Marth's placement is good. Well done SBR.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I haven't ever seen you list any concrete evidence for your opinions. And wario? Really?

I wish the SBR could somehow prove that Marth is the 6th best character but they can't because he isn't. Olimar is a f*cking beast and as soon as people start picking him up he'll end up in top5. Best projectile, hardcore camping and insane KO power, that's pretty hawt **** right there. Wario might not be better but I think so: He's doing better vs MK and Snake than Marth does and since they are supposed to have their own tiers one should think it would affect him somehow but the list sucks so badly it doesn't have anything to do with logic anyways.

I think Marth should be either 7th or 8th but there's no way that him > Diddy atm it's just absurd. The list os supposed to reflect the current Metagame and if it has Marth above Diddy it does the exact opposite of it.

G&W is overrated, he's not top5 material imo, Diddy and Oli are both better imo and Marth isn't far behind either. Falco is much better and his 3rd place is perfectly justified. Top5 should be Snake, MK, Falco, D3 and either Diddy or Olimar in no specific order.

 

[takeurlife2]

something tells me allot of you guys have no warios in your region.

he's a horrendously defensive character and rivals all the "fair spamming" characters like marf in terms of gimping.

his only weakness is priority in some of his air attacks and getting release grabbed. A defensive wario doesnt get grabbed...

 

[CO18]

I wish the SBR could somehow prove that Marth is the 6th best character but they can't because he isn't. Olimar is a f*cking beast and as soon as people start picking him up he'll end up in top5. Best projectile, hardcore camping and insane KO power, that's pretty hawt **** right there. Wario might not be better but I think so: He's doing better vs MK and Snake than Marth does and since they are supposed to have their own tiers one should think it would affect him somehow but the list sucks so badly it doesn't have anything to do with logic anyways.

I think Marth should be either 7th or 8th but there's no way that him > Diddy atm it's just absurd. The list os supposed to reflect the current Metagame and if it has Marth above Diddy it does the exact opposite of it.

G&W is overrated, he's not top5 material imo, Diddy and Oli are both better imo and Marth isn't far behind either. Falco is much better and his 3rd place is perfectly justified. Top5 should be Snake, MK, Falco, D3 and either Diddy or Olimar in no specific order.

Too bad Diddy and Olimar, Olimar specifically have plenty of bad matchups. Marth has what? 3? And he barely loses to Snake and D3 and MK is definitley winnable.

 

[∫unk]

take knows what he's talking about

too bad futile quit