MaxThunder
PM Support
just wondering... how do you do this pivot thing?.. it's one of the things i can't recall being explained in any of the guides i've read...
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Marth's Match-Up Chart thread
- Thread starter t3h Icy
- Start date
When you're mid dash (not run) and you dash in the other direction there is a single frame that you are standing. During this frame you can do w/e (in this case fsmash).
So basically fthrow -> dash -> hit back on the control stick -> fsmash
So basically fthrow -> dash -> hit back on the control stick -> fsmash
I believe it only works in the starting few strides of the dash, otherwise it does the prolonged animation where you can't act. Marth's pivot is easier to get the timing for than most; if you dash dance quick enough you'll see a split second (dunno the framecount) where he's standing up straight. That's when you can use your fsmash.When you're mid dash (not run) and you dash in the other direction there is a single frame that you are standing. During this frame you can do w/e (in this case fsmash).
So basically fthrow -> dash -> hit back on the control stick -> fsmash
EDIT: Just toying around against some CPUs (of varying levels to ensure DI mixups), the fthrow->pivot fsmash is AWESOME, and not as hard to do as I figured. I still can't do it that consistently, but this should be easier to get down than wavedashing. Additionally, some of the fthrow->pivot fsmashes gave tippers. I'm going out on a limb here, but i'm guessing that's where the bot DI'd down and away. Soooo that would mean that the "facing marth? DI down and away" advice would kind of be turned completely against them... ^_^
Why is nobody else as excited about this as I am XD
Archangel
Smash Hero
you say that as if I haven't placed 33rd before at a major event
You do realize that "99% of Marth mains" play under these rules: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=313252
Meaning in no guaranteed FD pick.
....he is applying the rules of his region to all of us. Making him uninformed, mediocre, a complete *******
Fortress | Sveet
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Ummm... leffen you wanna handle this one?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Spam_Arrows, the ruleset leffen is talking about is the same one you linked. Leffen is referring to the fact that there are no bans in a bo5. So Marth is guaranteed to get FD.
Archangel
Smash Hero
............By the way....turns out the Back throw for Marth is actually pretty gay in some situations. It now means more to me than an accidental dthrow
idk....
.Chipmunk.
Smash Ace
Just to point out a pretty broken strategy in counter picking stages, you can pick a stage you've banned. Try banning FD if you lose and your opponent will be like...wtf? Then if you win, they won't think to ban FD cause you already did, then you can just pick it.
Archangel
Smash Hero
o_____________________O!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Honestly this is something I keep in mind whenever I'm banning/counterpicking a stage. There have been a handful of times that I've found myself banning the same stage as my opponent.
stelzig
Smash Lord
Do the rules actually mention this anywhere? I remember seeing this being discussed before, and I disagree with allowing people to just pick a stage they banned. Unless their opponent agrees to it of course.
I have also already denied a danish player this kind of counterpick against me before actually. ^x^
Archangel
Smash Hero
it seems like a grey area somewhere in the rules.
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Um...
If you win game 2 why are you the one picking the stage for game 3? The loser of the previous game decides the stage, not the winner...
MaxThunder
PM Support
^^just wanna point out that he didn't say he'd be picking the stage for game 3... he could have meant he'd be able to pick FD in the event he loses game 3...
Fortress | Sveet
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You can't pick a stage you have banned, for that exact reason. Once you ban a stage it is off the table for the remainder of the set. Of course, if the opponent agrees to play on the stage even though its banned, thats another thing
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
@leffen/all:
I did some Fthrow -> Pivot Fsmash testing on Marth, Peach, and Jigglypuff.
I couldn't get it to combo on down & away DI at all, ever, even off the ledge, regardless of pivot distance against any of them.
On just away DI, I could get it to combo off the ledge against Marth & Peach at specific percents (around 80-90ish) but it had really specific pivot spacing and I don't think it's practical. It worked against Jiggs onstage & offstage at around 70ish+ for a while though.
I did some Fthrow -> Pivot Fsmash testing on Marth, Peach, and Jigglypuff.
I couldn't get it to combo on down & away DI at all, ever, even off the ledge, regardless of pivot distance against any of them.
On just away DI, I could get it to combo off the ledge against Marth & Peach at specific percents (around 80-90ish) but it had really specific pivot spacing and I don't think it's practical. It worked against Jiggs onstage & offstage at around 70ish+ for a while though.
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
But there are no bans in a bo5...
Divinokage
Smash Legend
What's the difference between Fsmashing or pivot fsmash? Does the hitbox get bigger or something? Or is it just for timing purposes to get the tipper?
Beat!
Smash Master
The only way to fsmash directly out of a dash is to pivot fsmash.
Fortress | Sveet
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its to gain space. you move forward in order to still catch the DI away
Tekk
Smash Lord
I have a hard time picturing it actually... You can pivot in the same direction you're dashing ? #dumbquestions
Niko45
Smash Master
No you're pivoting back in the other direction and then fsmashing back in the INITIAL direction you were dashing with the c stick.
Tekk
Smash Lord
...Damn I'm dumb >_>
thanks anyway
thanks anyway
Archangel
Smash Hero
is there a reason why my pivot fsmash fails with the c-stick.
Fortress | Sveet
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no there isnt. you can pivot with the cstick (in fact i suggest it)
Archangel
Smash Hero
Holy **** it works.....Maybe my previous controller was just ****ed and I didn't know about it because I swear a few months ago I was trying it and it would not work ever.
MaxThunder
PM Support
then i guess they guy can't have been talking about bo5, right?..
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
What? You're not making any sense. Why'd you say "he could have meant he'd be able to pick FD in the event he loses game 3..." if you didn't think he was talking about bo5s? In bo3, if you lose g3 you're done. There aren't bans in bo7s and so on either sooooo I don't see your point.
If he was talking about bo3s his post doesn't make sense cause the winner of game 2 doesn't pick the stage for game 3. And if he was talking about bo5s his post doesn't make sense because there are no bans in bo5s...
If he was talking about bo3s his post doesn't make sense cause the winner of game 2 doesn't pick the stage for game 3. And if he was talking about bo5s his post doesn't make sense because there are no bans in bo5s...
t-iceman
Smash Journeyman
It is possible that your previous controller could not do a true pivot which occurs by flicking the controller in the opposite direction and it will stop your dash. I actually just gave up my last controller cause it couldnt do that and i had to pivot by inputting on action on the frame marth turned around which was not fun at all.
Mahone
Smash Champion
lol... this is the least complicated thing ever
GAME 1: marth wins game one on BF...
fox:"what do you ban?"
marth: "i ban fd"
fox: "wtf, ok i go pokemon stadium idiot"
GAME 2: fox goes pokemon stadium and wins
marth:"what do you ban?"
fox: *thinks... hmm i don't have to ban fd cuz they banned it* "I ban yoshi's"
marth: "Ok, i go FD"
fox: "You can't, u banned it"
marth: "learn the rules"
guy talking about after game 3 or whatever didn't make sense...
original post makes perfect sense
Niko45
Smash Master
Fox can just also ban FD, so what is the point of all this...
Anyways, disappointing news about pivot fsmashing but that was what I was anticipating anyway. Grabbing Jiggs is complicated anyways, but it's really too bad it doesn't work on like, Peach or Samus.
Anyways, disappointing news about pivot fsmashing but that was what I was anticipating anyway. Grabbing Jiggs is complicated anyways, but it's really too bad it doesn't work on like, Peach or Samus.
leffen
Smash Champion
wtf @ magus being wrong
oh and we play bo5 here in europe all the time, and all "important" sets are bo5 anyway
I also main fox so ppl won't ban FD as much against me :D
oh and we play bo5 here in europe all the time, and all "important" sets are bo5 anyway
I also main fox so ppl won't ban FD as much against me :D
Archangel
Smash Hero
how about that. I knew this controller was good but it's better than I thought
Mahone
Smash Champion
if the fox doesn't know the rules, they won't ban fd, so if you want to gamble on that, it might be worth it... it just costs you not having a ban, so its up to u to decide if its worth it
i still don't think magus is wrong... no offense strong bad, but its magus...
also good point, having a secondary marth is godly for this reason... honestly marth's should think about picking up a secondary ics so you can go fd against like sheik, especially with wobbling legal nowadays, but seems sorta cheap lol
Archangel
Smash Hero
Honestly, switching out for a Sheik is the only switch out I see as justified. **** that ninja *****!
Fortress | Sveet
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You cannot pick a stage you have banned in a set. Once the stage is banned, it is unable to be picked by the rules of the tournament; the person who banned the stage is irrelevant. A stage banned by a player is no different than Hyrule or Icicle Mountain as far as the rules are concerned.
Beat!
Smash Master
First of all, Magus said that what he did was against DI down and not down+away. Maybe that's the thing?
Secondly, even if it doesn't work against perfect DI, if you throw immediately it's impossible for Puff to react fast enough every time, especially when you mix in dthrows as well. Suboptimal DI will happen, many times, and that's when you ****.
Secondly, even if it doesn't work against perfect DI, if you throw immediately it's impossible for Puff to react fast enough every time, especially when you mix in dthrows as well. Suboptimal DI will happen, many times, and that's when you ****.
Niko45
Smash Master
welcome to what I said 3 pages ago
Fortress | Sveet
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If they DI down and away, then you can just mixup your throws and hit them with the fsmash. If they DI down, you cant mixup your throw to throw->fsmash and instead you have to pivot fsmash.
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
The original post said this:
"Try banning FD if you lose and your opponent will be like...wtf? Then if you win, they won't think to ban FD cause you already did, then you can just pick it."
You are saying this:
"Try banning FD if you win and your opponent will be like...wtf? Then if you lose, they won't think to ban FD cause you already did, then you can just pick it."
hence why its wrong..
And no, that won't work. Banning a stage removes it from the whole set. And even if it did work you'd be dumb as hell for letting a Fox get stadium for free like that lol