Marth's Match-Up Chart thread

[Fregadero]

Doing what I can with a busy schedule. I've loved this game for 10 years and my actual competetive career is about a month old. I am putting a lot of time and effort into this game and I've already improved a ton. Its just hard to get taken seriously when you haven't made any real accomplishments.

I do a lot experimenting and learning on my own, but I come here for advice and matchup experience for characters I don't play a lot.

Look for me in a year I'll be that guy wrecking faces.

Marths gay as hell but it doesn't mean we can't get our **** straight.

 

[Archangel]

Actually the only one that came out with this "leader" thing is you Spam.

So, if you feel like you need a "leader", that's ok, but don't act like it's some Marth players thing.

Also, you'll never get anyone to call you Archangel, at the best Arkansas.

obviously nobody is going to say it but actions speak louder than words.

if you recall the who's the best Marth thread it pretty much told the truth all on it's own.

Who's the best marth?

Beast 2 = it's ICE!
Genesis 2 = It's TAJ
G6 = it's Dr.PP
TSL : RISE! = Salepate
now CT5 = Shroomed

I'm just stating what I see is all. Sorry if it offends you.

Smashboards didn't help me with Marth much at all tbh. I'm a visual learner...hence the signature.

I only joined smashboards because a friend of mine in Florida called me and told me his roomate hacked his wii so that it could play like melee(in reality it became brawl+) but if not for that I would have never joined this site.

When I got to this section it was during the Marth is Dead / Revival of Marth phase so I started the legacy project to try and help. That's it.

 

[Fregadero]

obviously nobody is going to say it but actions speak louder than words.

if you recall the who's the best Marth thread it pretty much told the truth all on it's own.

Who's the best marth?

Beast 2 = it's ICE!
Genesis 2 = It's TAJ
G6 = it's Dr.PP
TSL : RISE! = Salepate
now CT5 = Shroomed

I'm just stating what I see is all. Sorry if it offends you.

That thread was a giant **** riding party and by posting it you literally asked the Marth boards and the community to pick a "leader."

Prove me wrong

 

[Archangel]

That thread was a giant **** riding party and by posting it you literally asked the Marth boards and the community to pick a "leader."

Prove me wrong

LOL it was a ****riding/troll party I admit.

I was honestly tired of M2K being auto-placed as the best Marth when he only used him 10% of the time and I know as long as he has his trusty fans they will always say him and ignore the others. So I created that thread because wanted to know who was considered overall the best Marth player next to M2K. The idea of picking a leader never crossed my mind.

 

[Fregadero]

Alright but you've gotta admit it turned into that.

ANYWAY

Pivot is the future of Marth (or could be a big part of it). Just looking at how well DD -> side b can be in shutting down some approaches, I think it could have some really good uses.

 

[OverLord]

I choose him as my leader.

 

[Construct]

Alright but you've gotta admit it turned into that.

ANYWAY

Pivot is the future of Marth (or could be a big part of it). Just looking at how well DD -> side b can be in shutting down some approaches, I think it could have some really good uses.

Couldn't agree more. Marth has craaaaazy stuff out of pivots which make his already good range completely obscene, as well as being much more flexible.

Not so sure on DD side b, why do you like that? I find throwing in a side b can be helpful for various moments when I need to float, like during extended juggles/combos or some edgeguarding situations.

I also think shieldbreaker has untapped potential, but that's probably just wishful thinking.

 

[Archangel]

yeah I used like pivot side-b yesterday against Sheik...it's so fun.

 

[Fregadero]

Well side b can cancel dash so its actually 1 frame faster than a pivoted move.

Side b is basically marth's jab, its better in pretty much every way. Larget hit box, works midair(can help aerial combo strigs), and can combo into dancing blade(lol). Its main drawback comparitively is that it doesn't have much knockback, especially compared to tipped jab at hugh percents for an edgeguard.

Its uses out of dd are in stopping rushdown approaches and punishing people who get to close without realizing its an option. The hitbox extends a little past the edge of the sword too.

Pivot can be compared to this out of DD and allows you to cancel dash into any standing move.

Neut b has a lot of uses that aren't tapped into IMO. It basically has fsmashes awesome hit box, but can be used and reversed mid air.

A lot of players space outside of marth's fair range when hes airborne, and this can be used to surprise them.

 

[Archangel]

I love the Neutral B on Marth it's just hard to find the time to use it.

I know you can Neutral B on stage from the ledge but it's hard as **** to do. I've done it like 1 time in my life.

 

[Shroomed]

I think Marth is my second best character.

Excluding Mario of course.

 

[Fregadero]

Neut b ledgestall is hard but if you play any spacies the timing isnt that bad. Muscle memory son.

 

[Archangel]

I think Marth is my second best character.

Excluding Mario of course.

Name searching ftw!

You think your sheik is better?

 

[Shroomed]

Name searching ftw!

You think your sheik is better?

Nah, I'm pretty sure my Marth is better. I just think my Sheik is a Sheik so it seems better because Sheik is better in general.

 

[Archangel]

Nah, I'm pretty sure my Marth is better. I just think my Sheik is a Sheik so it seems better because Sheik is better in general.

Sheik is better than Marth no shock there. So if you think that your sheik is slightly better could that mean your Marth and Sheik are even?

 

[Niko45]

Going to enjoy watching Shroomed play Marth.

Anyway I got a chance to finally play a decent Jiggs since I've been messing with pivot fsmashing and yea, it's very useful. Even outside of fthrow fsmash, it does weird things to people when you suddenly fsmash them out of a DD. It's really good for keeping them off balance in these types of matchups where your DD is mostly useless otherwise and you're mostly just standing there zoning. The fact that you can fsmash at any distance and without wavedash lag makes it way less predictable and it can also be sort of a cool approach since a lot of characters like to react to marth dashing forward with some type of dash attack or shffl aerial to intercept him and a quick dash forward pivot fsmash can catch people off guard as opposed to a WD forward, which typically triggers people to shield since fsmash is very likely to be coming. On a bit of a tangent, I can't emphasize enough how good wavedash forward grab is for marth. Unbelievably good as far as his approaching tools go.

 

[Fregadero]

I could be mistaken about how good they are but I feel like a lot of Marths don't use enough options out of DD. You can do pretty much anything out of it but its always grab.

Oops Niko edit ninja'd me.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Also, walk is OP.

 

[Inty17]

Nah, I'm pretty sure my Marth is better. I just think my Sheik is a Sheik so it seems better because Sheik is better in general.

I think Marth and Doc have similar movement. I play both, and I found the transition to be really easy. They obviously play differently, but I think their wavelands and jumps are pretty similar. Just my opinion.

 

[Archangel]

I think Marth and Doc have similar movement. I play both, and I found the transition to be really easy. They obviously play differently, but I think their wavelands and jumps are pretty similar. Just my opinion.

I agree. I main'd Mario/Doc before switching to Marth.

 

[knightpraetor]

side b with marth takes two extra frames to get out, making jab better in most situations (for stunning them and resets), while other moves typically are better for actual intents to attack... a few exceptions where side b shines as the best option...saving one frame for the turn around after a dair by directly going into over b...

and the fact that you can dashdance into it without having to pivot...

i think it's really good when a rising dair gets CCed to dash away and then use over B to catch them as they chase you....but i think in reality if you're good you shouldn't be going for the rising dairs out of shield at low percents anyway...

but i'm a scrub so it happens to me sometimes.

 

[Fregadero]

I'm not great either but I much prefer side b over jab for everything but edgeuarding. Jab resets with marth are kinda bad imo, and i usually only use them to stop approaches and thats why I like side b.

Its aerial uses are aweome and underused IMO.

Dair out of shield is too laggy to approach with

 

[knightpraetor]

i think you're missing hte main point, which is that side b is rather poor in risk/reward and has the same speed and range as grab.

moreover, it does not have enough priority or speed to block approaches (while jab can pick opponents out of the air and does great jobs of tapping floaties as they leave shield (useful to get setups for ftilt/fsmash near the edge).

side b shouldn't be looked at as an approach, it's more of a defense /amazing move that can be used out of dashdance.

dair out of shield is ****...at percents when it can combo and at certain spacings when the opponents shield pressure makes it high risk to wavedash out of shield...

 

[Fregadero]

Ill admit i haven't explored jab all that much, but the moves are very close in terms of speed. Jab comes out 2 frames earlier and ends 3 earlier with iasa frames, and side b can be use in a neutral position, in dash, in run, and while airborne. Jab has a better hitbox at the end but has less range. Seems like more a preference thing with them being this similar but I'll see what I can do w/ jab. But I wouldn't say its any worse than jab in terms if risk/reward, as long as you use them both intellegently.

Yeah i wouldn't use it as an approach. Any sort of offensive use is usually mid combo to chain hits, its nice for juggles. Side b -> utilt on floaties can kill combo at high percents.

Looking back I didn't really get what you were saying about dair and I agree. I just try to avoid it because its so punishable but when it hits its so sexy.

 

[knightpraetor]

i'm not really saying jab is worse or better than over B. i am saying that in terms of approaching both are not that good..

in terms of spacing and boxing out opponents jab is superior both because you can react with it quicker in response to moves and because its hitbox is better (i have tested extensively the use of jab vs over b in boxing out jiggs...and the hitbox is just better)

the main advantage of over B is from dashdance....it is good for baiting approaches and basically functions as marth's jab/reset move when dashdancing...it's hard to value it very well as it is CCable but used sparingly it often throws off the space animal's movements....it is an excellent move after marth's dair (see m2k vs spacies for examples..i don't remember the match names..but at his prime he used it at several major tourneys)

side b to uptilt is ok, though from my experience it's best to do it while wavedashing out of shield across them (which is risky to begin with so i would only do it if it will combo into uptilt into kill)...because then they are more likely to dI in. if you are just using it from neutral they would have to have horrible reflexes not to DI

..if you attempt it from neutral spacings top players will just DI it everytime...you have to hit with it when they are crossing over to get anything out of over B...personally i prefer just using nairs and uptilts to get kills on jiggs high percent as they are more guaranteed

one thing i haven't tested is whether side b has any uses in comboing outside of after dairs. since i mostly play against spacies or floaties, i haven't gotten to test this..if there are many combo usages it should work best on midrange weights as floaties can DI away or nair out afterwards too easily, and it doesn't really pop up fastfallers enough

 

[Fregadero]

It combos middair into uair/fair/bair(harder to do) pretty well middair. It puts them in an awkward spot above you and uair hits pretty well. Depending on percents I've done it to floaties and spacies. Try messing around with it, let me know what you think. I don't see many marths using it but it definitely has some untapped uses.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

jab if they are on the ground, side b if they are in the air.

 

[Archangel]

jab if they are on the ground, side b if they are in the air.

^ This. I can't tell you how learning to side-b falcon out of the sky has really changed how I do in that MU.