Marth's Match-Up Chart thread

[Beat!]

IIRC Tai said somewhere that it's one of Pika's better high/top tier matchups, and that Axe agrees.

I think it's somewhere around 60-40 (meaning it could be pretty much anything from 55-45 to 65-35). It's kinda hard to say, because IMO we'd need a Marth on Axe's level (no offense to Tai) with an equal amount of MU experience. Taj meets the criteria, but I don't think there are any recent vids of him and Axe playing that matchup.

 

[Niko45]

Taj said it was 55:45 at one point.

 

[Archangel]

55-45 is pretty close to where I put it(56-44). Just based on certain things I know. Considering just how good Pika can get in this MU particularly I don't think it can be 60-40 but I don't think it can be 50-50 either. I mean M2K vs Axe was pretty fun to watch and it didn't really seem 60-40. Assuming M2K stayed Marth and learned more about the MU...who knows.

 

[N64]

I can go along with that.

As long as Marth is patient, reacts to Pikachu's approaches, and maintains a distance where he can react (while still leaving himself room to retreat if need be), it becomes pretty tough for Pikachu. Conversely, if Pikachu gets in and knows how to press the advantage, it's pretty tough for Marth to safely get away and recreate the spacing he needs. Pika kinda has to take the most risks in this matchup (or at least the most risky ones) as he has to really commit to his approaches to get into the range he can do anything from, while Marth has a number of relatively safe defensive options that either hit Pikachu or keep Pikachu at the distance Marth is comfortable with.

What allows Pikachu to even things up is just how punishing he can be, but that's what he really needs to keep up with any high tiers (it's what makes his matchups against fox, falco, falcon, and ganon not horrible) because his other options in general are pretty bad. His range is poor, his moves don't do much damage, he dies kinda early, and has a horrible shield. Where he doesn't have as heavy a punish game, he loses against high tiers.

It's just really rough until Pika gets in, and Marth excells at keeping people out. 60-40 in favor of Marth sounds good to me.

 

[Archangel]

interestingly true. There are situations when it seems like Pikachu has to counter-pick himself if Marth plays patiently on bigger stages with bigger boundaries then Pikachu is forced to pick a smaller stage but increasing his odds of dying early.

 

[Tekk]

A 56:44 matchup ratio.....

 

[Archangel]

My ratios are the best.

 

[Fregadero]

I thought I said this already, *****es gotta use them spam arrows ratios.

Not calling you Arcangel for like 3 months, sorry.

I'm curious to hear everyones opinion on the Ganon matchup.

I think its 55-45 Marth, Ganon punishes Marth like its his job.

 

[Archangel]

I think it is 51-49 Marth :D

@boatmode **** you for not using my name *****

 

[Fregadero]

I'm backing your whack *** ratios and thats how you treat me?

Thanks a lot SPAM ARROWS

 

[Aber]

I think ganon marth is even probably a little in marth's favor if they know what they're doing

 

[Archangel]

I'm backing your whack *** ratios and thats how you treat me?

Thanks a lot SPAM ARROWS

*choke mode for boat mode*

 

[Niko45]

I will destroy any ****ing ganon that isn't better than me

 

[Beat!]

Marth Ganon...

60-40 Marth advantage

Also, what Niko said.

 

[Divinokage]

The match-up is definitely not as hard as Fox or Sheik. lol.

 

[Beat!]

Well, I'd put Sheik Ganon as at least 65-35, and possibly Fox as well.

It also kinda comes down to what the matchup numbers means to you. Maybe we should just use OTG's system.

 

[Veetaak]

OTG system?

How fake the character is
Sheik is more fake because it's actually zelda pretending to be someone else

Ganon wins the match-up

 

[Max?]

My system really is the best one. Look at all these absurd matchup ratios.

It's either:

Even? (we don't know who wins exactly)
Evenish (Character x has beaten Character y slightly more historically but either player can win)
90-10 (one character should CLEARLY beat the other unless there is a big skill gap/huge lack of matchup knowledge)

Just saying

 

[Tekk]

This debate is so frustrating. -_-
We should just use Max' system and stop bothering with ratios.

How does marth have an edge on ganon exactly ?

 

[Anthon1996]

F-air Ganon hits hard and has good edge guarding capabilities, especially bad for the lightweight Marth, and they seem to have about the same range, however Marth has the obvious speed and combo advantages. They can also both make comebacks.

 

[Archangel]

This debate is so frustrating. -_-
We should just use Max' system and stop bothering with ratios.

How does marth have an edge on ganon exactly ?

same way Marth has an edge on most characters. If Ken and M2K didn't lose or go even with a character during their prime then that means the MU is automatically 60-40+ in Marth's favor. Duh!

 

[Divinokage]

same way Marth has an edge on most characters. If Ken and M2K didn't lose or go even with a character during their prime then that means the MU is automatically 60-40+ in Marth's favor. Duh!

Ya but I beat him in a MM 3 years ago 2-1 so your argument is flawed. =)

 

[Niko45]

expoooooosed

 

[Archangel]

Ya but I beat him in a MM 3 years ago 2-1 so your argument is flawed. =)

clearly you missed the joke...or maybe you are trolling.

In anycase 1 victory doesn't mean anything also vids or it didn't happen!

 

[KirbyKaze]

Whoops wrong board rofl

 

[Beat!]

You're right. I doubleshine and shinegrab way too much with Marth.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Drillshine is clearly way better.

 

[Merkuri]

What do people think of the Falcon vs Marth matchup? Shroomed 6-0'd SS last weekend. And also what do people think of Shroomed's Marth. I think it's great.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

What do people think of the Falcon vs Marth matchup? Shroomed 6-0'd SS last weekend. And also what do people think of Shroomed's Marth. I think it's great.

Shroomed did many good things in the MU, but he also did many non Marth main sorts of things that, if he would have done he would have done much better and, even though he didn't drop a game, would have won much more convincingly. The biggest thing you can take from those sets are his tech chasing, which was on point the entire time and is what really led him to victory.

 

[Archangel]

Spoiler

Shroomed is the best Marth right now. sorry Dr.PP looks like people are switching trains now....already.....lol. I mean come on seriously? Can 1 person just ONE person have a good showing in a set with a good player without being instantly crowned the best Marth!?

Shroomed did well. I think Marth vs Falcon is still 51-49 Marth.

 

[Beat!]

Spoiler

Shroomed is the best Marth right now. sorry Dr.PP looks like people are switching trains now....already.....lol. I mean come on seriously? Can 1 person just ONE person have a good showing in a set with a good player without being instantly crowned the best Marth!?

Neither of them said anything about Shroomed being the best. What are you talking about? >_>


Shroomed's Marth is really good. I hope he'll use it more.

I think Marth vs Falcon is still 51-49 Marth.

Every time a spam_arrows-ratio is posted, otg kills a puppy.

 

[Tekk]

Spam are you bipolar or something ?

 

[Archangel]

Neither of them said anything about Shroomed being the best. What are you talking about? >_>

Shroomed's Marth is really good. I hope he'll use it more.



Every time a spam_arrows-ratio is posted, otg kills a puppy.

I know neither of them said it I was just sort of anticipating it. Marth's are pretty desperate for a new leader right now if you hadn't notice. As soon as someone of not has 1 relatively good showing it's like. "HIM! THAT'S THE BEST MARTH LETS FOLLOW HIM AND BE JUST LIKE HIM!". I find it somewhat funny personally.

Spam are you bipolar or something ?

Who is spam? Why are you talking to people who don't exist?......

 

[.Chipmunk.]

I know neither of them said it I was just sort of anticipating it. Marth's are pretty desperate for a new leader right now if you hadn't notice. As soon as someone of not has 1 relatively good showing it's like. "HIM! THAT'S THE BEST MARTH LETS FOLLOW HIM AND BE JUST LIKE HIM!". I find it somewhat funny personally.



Who is spam? Why are you talking to people who don't exist?......

Maybe you are desperate for a 'leader', but I'm not. I'm not trying to be -as good as- someone, I'm only trying to be -better- than I currently am. There are only 2 things you have to do to become the best, number 1 is never settle and keep improving, the other is to make it your goal to beat whoever beat you at your last tournament. Eventually, nobody will beat you.

 

[Archangel]

Maybe you are desperate for a 'leader', but I'm not. I'm not trying to be -as good as- someone, I'm only trying to be -better- than I currently am. There are only 2 things you have to do to become the best, number 1 is never settle and keep improving, the other is to make it your goal to beat whoever beat you at your last tournament. Eventually, nobody will beat you.

ok. I respect that and I apologize for grouping you in with most but when I say Marth's I am speaking in a general sense. Sure not everyone fits that category though. Good luck to you. also. do you have any footage on youtube?

 

[.Chipmunk.]

ok. I respect that and I apologize for grouping you in with most but when I say Marth's I am speaking in a general sense. Sure not everyone fits that category though. Good luck to you. also. do you have any footage on youtube?

Yeah, footage from a few months ago, but as I said, I'm constantly getting better so nothing that shows my current skill level. I'm in the south though so you already did my region if you were talking legacy.

 

[Fregadero]

Spoiler

[SARCASM]

I'm glad that when I go on the Marth boards as a new player to try and gain some insight, the boards are always filled with great posts.

Spoiler

[/SARCASM]

Seriously though, Marth boards have been *** since I started browsing them late summer last year. Trying to figure out up from down as a new player who didn't know any other smashers was ridiculous. Our guides, matchups, and META GAME are all out dated, and half of our threads turn into **** like this ^. Not using any names but its not hard to figure out where most of the ****posting comes from.

/Rage

Seriously, I love this character and most of the people in the community, but we're not going to attract new players or fix this character if we can't get our **** straight.

 

[Divinokage]

You make it seem like you absolutely need advice from the boards to become a better player when in reality these kinds of advices are only about 10% of what you can actually learn yourself. The only way to revolutionize a character is by creating your own tactics and surpassing nearly every player, you need a lot of drive for that. If you can't do that, then there's no way you'll improve past a certain point.. experimenting is probably the best way to have the understanding needed to go beyond what you are normally capable of.

What happened to the time when people actually put up effort to improve and innovate? The reason why it appears outdated is because no one is willing to step it up. You have to put up enormous work yourself, go travel, seek out strong players... etc. Then draw yourself some wisdom you learned through out all of that and then perhaps we'll see some crazy stuff. You can't demand the knowledge so easily all the time, it just doesn't work.

Anyways, Marth mains getting their **** straight is actually pretty funny coming from Marth when we don't really know if he's gay or not.. seems like a hard road...

 

[.Chipmunk.]

...we don't really know if he's gay or not...

He's an Executive ******, like Eddie Izzard. Male Lesbian.

 

[OverLord]

Actually the only one that came out with this "leader" thing is you Spam.

So, if you feel like you need a "leader", that's ok, but don't act like it's some Marth players thing.



Also, you'll never get anyone to call you Archangel, at the best Arkansas.