Make Your Move 8: -TOP 50 POSTED-

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And now, for yet another water-based moveset....





Omi joins the battle!





- Introduction -

Omi is the Xiaolin Dragon of Water. He was raised as an orphan by Master Fung and has lived in the Xiaolin Temple for his whole life. Because of this, he is a highly skilled fighter and can be very arrogant about his abilities. However, due to his young age, he is also quite naive and clueless when it comes to life outside the Temple. He has a habit of butchering slang terms. Armed with water manipulation, Shen Gong Wu, his Shimo Staff, and his own butt-kicking skills, this little guy can definitely hold his own on the field of battle!

- Stats -

Size - Small
Omi's only about as tall as Pikachu. What a runt!

Weight - Light
As such, it doesn't take much to send him flying.

Walk Speed - Average
Omi strolls with confidence.

Dash Speed - Above Average
Omi runs about as fast as Pikachu.

Jump - Above Average
Omi's quite an able jumper.

Fall Speed - Average
Not too heavy or floaty.

Air Speed - Above Average
Omi seems to cut through the air.

Traction - Average
Nothing out of the ordinary to see here.

Omi can wall jump, wall cling, and crawl, but he can't glide.

- Special Moves -

Neutral B - Orb of Tornami




Omi's signature Shen Gong Wu is the Orb of Tornami, a non-descript blue ball that holds an infinite torrent of water! As you know, water can come in three phases: gas, solid, and liquid. This concept carries over to the Orb of Tornami as well. Omi charges this move in the same manner and with the same duration as Samus charges her Charge Shot (pressing B will cause Omi to charge automatically, pressing shield will cancel and store the charge). The intensity of the charge is indicated by a pulsating blue glow that becomes more rapid the more you charge. Firstly, if you press B and tap B again soon after (or use this attack in midair) to skip the charge, the Orb will let out a puff of steam slightly larger than Jigglypuff. This puff of steam stays in place where you shoot it and lasts about 3 seconds, but you can have as many on the field as you want. Its only effect is to completely neutralize any energy-based projectiles that come into contact with it. It's quite useful for blocking blaster spam, or any other energy-based spam, such as Pit's arrow's.

Secondly, if you fullly charge this move, Omi will instead fire a single stream of ice with the range of one Battlefield platform. If you hit one or more foes, they'll take 12% damage and be frozen in a block of ice as if a Freezie had been thrown at them. They can tap A to try to break free from the ice faster. The benefits of freezing an opponent are obvious; it gives you an opportunity to deal free damage and it might even score you a KO if used off-stage. Keeping your opponent still for a while might serve another purpose as well....

Lastly, somewhere between no charge and full charge, Omi will fire a stream of water not unlike Mario's fully-charged FLUDD. Though it does no damage, as long as you hold B, Omi will keep pumping the water out and pushing opponents away with great knockback. You might notice, though, that if you continue spraying at the ground in one place, a small puddle will form. This puddle will grow larger as you continue to spray water until about three seconds pass. At this point, the puddle will overflow and water will start to run off the stage and down to the bottom of the screen. Uh oh, what does this mean?

Flooding the Stage

If you successfully leave the Orb of Tornami running for three seconds, Omi floods the entire stage with water! This means that water will rise up from the bottom of the screen until it reaches about a Ganondorf height above the main platform, completely covering the bottom of the stage from one side blast zone to the other. The rest of the stage below the water's surface will disappear too, as if it wasn't there. The water level may vary depending on the stage, but for example: on Battlefield, once the stage is flooded, the water will reach up to the very bottom of the two lower platforms. Final Destination, on the other hand, has no platforms, and thus is completely inundated with water! This is normal water that characters can swim in for a limited time (and jump out of to prevent drowning), but since Omi has an affinity for the water element, he has a limited ability to stand, walk and run on water for about 5 seconds at a time (after 5 seconds, Omi will automatically start swimming, though all it takes is to jump out of or off the water and land again to reset the timer. The water level will slowly fall over time (taking about 30 seconds to recede back to the main platform), and once it reaches the level of the main platform again, it recedes completely (this takes a second or two). Other stage interactions by other characters will remain underwater if they last long enough. However, you can use the Orb of Tornami to refill the water by spraying it with more water. If you fire a fully-charged Orb of Tornami (stream of ice) and it doesn't hit anything, the ice will eventually hit the water and create a solid, floating platform made of ice that lasts for about 5 seconds. The platform isn't static; it can move with the currents and waves, and you can only have two out at a time.

So what good is flooding the stage other than completely changing the battlefield and the game? Omi can interact with the water and manipulate it using his other attacks, so you'll just have to read on to find out.

Up B - Mantis Flip Coin



The Mantis Flip Coin was the first Shen Gong Wu featured on Xiaolin Showdown, and the first to be used (by Omi, actually). It gives its wielder the ability to perform extremely high and acrobatic leaps. In Smash, it controls very similarly to Yoshi's Egg Toss, but in this case, Omi is the projectile! With the same starting lag as Egg Toss, Omi quickly brandishes the Coin and gives it a quick flip. It's during this animation that you can control the angle and distance of this move using the Control Stick and B Button. After catching the Coin, Omi performs a spinning somersault in a graceful arc that follows the trajectory and distance inputted earlier. Omi can catch ledges in mid-jump, so this makes for an excellent recovery.

On its own, this move does nothing but help Omi recover from off-stage, but if you input this move while standing on water (in which case you won't have to worry about falling), Omi will take some water with him as he spins, forming a circular barrier around his body. This creates a hitbox around Omi that deals 8% damage and medium knockback on contact with a foe. This makes for an excellent, and fancy-looking, approaching move.

Down B - Two-Ton Tunic



The Two-Ton Tunic is a protective Shen Gong Wu that makes its user nearly invulnerable and weigh...well, two tons! This move is quite similar to Kirby's Stone attack, with a couple of key differences. When you input this move, the Tunic will suddenly appear on Omi with the same lag as Stone. Omi will keep the Tunic on for 5 seconds, or you can press B to revert back to normal (which has the same ending lag as Stone). He has super armor during the duration of the move, but he's not immune to grabs. If Omi is hit by a projectile, it will simply bounce off him and be reflected back at the foe! In addition, Omi can still walk around while wearing the Tunic (albeit very slowly), and he can still jump his full height (no midair jump, though). Like with Stone, if Omi hits a foe while falling, he'll do 10% damage on contact with above average knockback. In addition, once he hits the ground, he'll create little shockwaves that push opponents away.

What happens if you use the Two-Ton Tunic and land in water? Simple: you create a tidal wave! When Omi lands in water while he's heavy, the impact will create a large wave that's twice as tall as Ganondorf and moves at Omi's speed in the direction that Omi was facing. The wave will travel about half the length of Final Destination. As you might have guessed, this move can be used to sweep up foes stranded in open water and carry them off to the side blast zones for a KO! The tidal wave will carry floating ice platforms with it as well. In addition, if you land directly on top of someone that's swimming in the water, you'll spike them for a bottom blast zone KO! Be sure to press B again to remove the Tunic once you land in the water, because Omi will sink like a rock to his doom if you don't.

Side B - Lunar Locket



The Lunar Locket gives its user the ability to manipulate the moon. Kind of a strange choice for an attack, huh? When Omi uses this move, he can actually call down the moon the sky! With the same start lag as Pikachu's Thunder, Omi pulls out the Locket, causing the moon (which is roughly the size of a Smart Bomb explosion) to drop straight down from the top of the stage above him with the same speed as Thunder and stop after about 3 Ganondorf heights. If a foe is hit by the moon as it comes down, they'll take 14% damage and high vertical knockback (they did get hit by the moon, after all). Then the moon stays where it is as a non-damaging obstacle, though you can send it back by pressing Side B again. The moon itself makes for an excellent KO move off the top of the screen if you've got careful aim. But maybe there's another use?

If you know a little bit of science, then you know that it's the moon's gravity that controls the tides. So when Omi uses the Lunar Locket, he can actually control the water level when the stage is flooded! As soon as the moon is called from the sky, the water level will quickly rise another Ganondorf height. This brings the top blast zone a lot closer to the battle! If you send the moon back up to the top of the stage, the water level will quickly begin to recede back to its normal height.

If you use this move on a stage where the moon is already in the background, such as Luigi's Mansion, the moon will still drop from the top of the screen. Perhaps it's just a replica?

- Standard Attacks -

Jab Combo - Monkey Playing Tag

With all this water manipulation going on, you might forget that Omi's extremely skilled in hand-to-hand combat as well. With one tap of the A button, Omi performs a very quick, basic jab with his fist, doing 2% damage and flinching knockback. If you follow up with another tap of A, Omi will swiftly move in a blur to the other side of the opponent and give them a kick to the behind that sends them slightly into the air with medium knockback and 4% damage. Now, you could stop the combo there while you're on the other side of the opponent if you're in a good position, but if you want to return to your original position and/or deal some more damage, you can quickly press A one more time to make Omi blur and reappear on the opponent's other side to deliver a punch that deals 4% damage and medium knockback. You'll end up back at your starting point at the end of your flashy combo, but if you want to keep your foe on their toes, try mixing up the two-hit combo with the three-hit one!

Forward Tilt - Frog Catching Fly



This is the first of Omi's moves to utilize his Wudai Weapon, the Shimo Staff. It's basically a little stick made of solid water (or ice, who knows) that's able to change its shape and size at Omi's will. When you input this move, Omi stands on one foot and raises and arm while simply poking his little stick forward for 7% damage and medium knockback. Like many Forward Tilts, you can angle this move up and down (the better to hit foes swimming in water with). With little lag on both ends, it's nearly as fast as his jab, thought it suffers from short range, comparable to Jigglypuff's Forward Tilt. The solution? Hold A, and the Shimo Staff will get really long! It will extend to nearly a platform's length, dealing the same damage and knockback as it stretches out. The downside is the slight increase in end lag as the Staff retracts, but hopefully you managed to hit your opponent so you don't have to worry about that.

Up Tilt - Crane Flying Kite

Omi performs a leaping flip kick to hit foes in front of and above him. It deals 7% damage and medium knockback in a steep, upward diagonal angle. What? That's not very interesting? Well, what if I said that Omi jumps to reach about twice his height to hit foes and is able to evade low attacks at the start of the move, and it's good for starting combos? Still not very creative? Ah, well, there's no pleasing everyone.

Also, if you use this move while Omi is standing on water, Omi will also kick up a spray of water in front of him that reaches about 2.5x his height and deals 9% damage, but more vertical knockback. This way, the range and power of the move is augmented by water.

Down Tilt - Dog Sniffing Ground

Omi whips out the Shimo Staff, which takes the form of a small mace for this move. He points it at the ground and quickly swings it around in a full circle to hit on all sides, dealing 8% damage and good medium horizontal knockback. Beware of shielding opponents, though, since they might be able to grab you from your vulnerable side.

If you use this move on water, the swinging of the Staff will also cause a small, damaging wall of water about Omi's height to rise around him, increasing the range of the move and deterring would-be attackers, too.

Dash Attack - Cat Skipping Stones

Omi's fist becomes surrounded by water as he draws it back, then he stops running and quickly throws a punch to release it at the foe. The water forms into a little stream that bounces along the ground, like Pikachu's Thunder Jolt. It travels the same distance while hugging the ground that a Thunder Jolt would after bouncing three times, and deals 6% damage and flinching knockback with each hit. It even hugs the ground like Thunder Jolt does, and makes an excellent spacing tool to give you room to start flooding the stage.

If you use this move on water, instead of the little bouncing stream, Omi simply points his hand forward and causes a series of large watery explosions to occur at the points where the stream of water would have touched the ground. Each splash deals 8% damage and good upward knockback, so this move is quite the potent weapon when facing waterlogged foes.

- Smash Attacks -

Forward Smash - Tiger Knocking on Door



This move isn't quite as dramatic-looking as the above picture, but you get the idea. While charging the move, Omi draws both of his hands back as a ball of spinning water forms between his hands. Upon release of the move, Omi throws his hands forward, forming a large watery fist the size of his whole body to punch the opponent with! This attack has good range and deals 17% damage uncharged with high, slightly rising horizontal knockback. It's obviously your move of choice for horizontal KOs, but be wary of the brief end lag as the fist disintegrates into little water droplets.

If you use this move on water, you'll notice that this move charges up slightly faster than normal, and creates a slightly larger fist that deals about 2% more damage and a little bit more knockback.

Up Smash - Tsunami Strike



This is one of Omi's signature moves! With his arms outstretched to his sides and one leg raised, a small puddle of water forms around his feet as he charges. When you release the move, Omi will spin around rapidly as the water forms a spiral around his body, as pictured above. In addition, the water at his feet creates a small suction effect directly next to Omi that can draw foes standing on the ground in. Opponents caught in the attack will get hit multiple times as he spins, for a maximum of 18% damage. At the end of the move, foes are sent flying straight up with high knockback, followed by a brief cooldown period as Omi stops spinning. If you're fast, you can catch opponents at the top of the screen using the Lunar Locket for a KO!

If you use this move on water, the suction effect covers a larger range (about a platform's length on both sides), making it deadly for foes that are swimming in the water near Omi.

Down Smash - Mikado Arm



For this move, Omi gets buff! The Mikado Arm is a Shen Gong Wu that gives the user big muscles. As he charges the move, Omi grasps the Mikado Arm as his biceps bulge. When the move is released, Omi spreads his arms out and spins around a couple of times, knocking foes away on all sides for 16% damage and high, strictly horizontal knockback. And while his biceps return to normal at the end of the move, the effects still linger a bit: the next move that Omi uses that involves his arms (even ones that use his Staff) will get a 1.3x buff in damage and knockback.

- Aerial Attacks -

Neutral Aerial - Mantis Doing Cartwheels

Wielding his Shimo Staff once again and making it grow to a length of twice his own body, Omi holds it at his side and spins it around rapidly, similar to Pit's Neutral Aerial. It has the same duration but a slightly larger range, hitting multiple times for a maximum of 10% damage. The final hit knocks the foe forward horizontally with medium knockback. This attack's quite useful for catching foes in midair and racking up damage.

Forward Aerial - Snake Eating Ice Cream



Omi uses the Shimo Staff again, but this time he breaks it into two parts to form two sickles! He slashes them vertically downward while doing a front flip, doing more damage if he can manage to hit the foe with the tip of the blades. This move is quick with great range and does a 12% damage if sweetspotted, 9% if not, and has above average knockback (if sweetspotted). It sounds like a pretty good aerial move; you should probably use it often in battle.

Back Aerial - Sneezing Panda

You know how in some fights scenes in movies, the camera slows down when someone does a cool kick? Well, the same thing happens here, except the camera doesn't slow down, it's just Omi. He spins around to deliver a devastating kick, but he's putting so much power into it that it's coming out very slowly! It takes about as long as a Falcon Punch to come out, actually. The good news is that it's just as strong as one if you manage to connect Omi's small foot with an opponent, dealing 20% damage and very high knockback. Aim carefully!

Up Aerial - Bear Making Pizza

Omi spins around a couple of times while raising one arm and releasing a stream of water upwardsfrom it. The result is something like a whirlpool that reaches about 1.5x the length of his body above his head and is slightly wider than his body as well. It hits multiple times for a maximum of 10% damage and finishes by knocking the opponent straight up with medium knockback. It makes for a good combo move; you can use it to follow up from an Up Tilt or an Up Smash, then finish with the Lunar Locket!

Down Aerial - Rooster Rides Elevator

This is the only standard move that Omi uses the Orb of Tornami for. He holds it below him and fires a single stream of ice downwards that reaches all the way to the ground (or the bottom blast zone). It causes Omi to stall in midair for about 1.5 seconds and actually gives him a decent 2x Ganondorf boost upwards as well, like a rocket (you can move side-to-side too). This boost decreases with consecutive uses, as does the length of the stream of ice. The stream of ice does 8% damage and only flinching knockback, but also has limited freezing capabilities (like the Ice Climbers' Blizzard). Use this move to obviously hit foes below you, but also to aid in your recovery too.

And one more thing! Like his regular Orb of Tornami attack, this move can create solid floating ice platforms too!

- Grab/Throws -

Grab - Mouse Finds Cheese

Omi's grab is pretty basic, but it should be noted that his grab range is kind of small (because he's a midget). Omi's able to grab foes out of the water, as well. During his grab and throw animations, he won't sink into the water.

Pummel - Horse Gnawing Rope

Omi punches the foe in his grip for 1% damage; a moderately fast pummel. If Omi is grabbing a foe on water, he'll dunk their head into the water for 2% damage instead, though this version of the pummel is slower.

Forward Throw - Rabbit Making Bed

Omi shoves his foe forward and summons several fists made of water to rise from the ground (or water). As Omi goes through a series of quick punching motions, the fists of water mimic him, pummeling the opponent before finishing with a swift uppercut. This throw does a maximum of 10% damage (12% if used on water) and medium knockback.

Up Throw - Dragon Eating Beans

Omi pushes his foe forward and points at the ground at their feet. Is something going to happen? Suddenly, a large geyser bursts forth from beneath the foe and sends them flying straight up with above average knockback and deals 9% damage. If used on water, the damage is the same but the size of the geyser and the knockback are roughly doubled. Again, using the Lunar Locket to call down the moon to hit the foe in midair once you send them flying doesn't sound like a bad idea.

Down Throw - Ox Sitting Down

Omi raises his arms in the air as a mini-tidal wave appears behind him. Then, as he throws his arms forward, it flies over his head and crashes into the foe, sending them into the ground, and dealing 9% damage. If used over water, this throw does 12% damage instead, but unfortunately pushes the foe out of range for a follow-up grab.

Backward Throw - Leopard Stretching Legs

Omi tucks and rolls between his foe's legs, then once he's behind them, he pops up and delivers a back kick with both feet, dealing 10% damage and medium knockback. Not as flashy as his other throws, but still kind of interesting, right?

Final Smash - Neptune Assault



Omi has grabbed the Smash Ball! When you activate his Final Smash, anyone within a platform's length in front of Omi will suddenly become engulfed by a large pillar of water and lifted high into the air as Omi follows. From here, he whips out his trusty Shimo Staff and begins rapidly battering any trapped opponents with it, the Staff changing forms with each hit. The Staff transforms into a sword, a mace, sickles, a hammer, a whip, a baseball bat, you name it. After the damage racking is complete, Omi slowly lifts his Staff high above his head, then swings it down with brutal force to split the pillar of water and send opponents sailing. In total, this move does 35% damage and very high knockback, so it's pretty much a guaranteed KO. Your opponents will definitely want to try to run or swim away from you once you grab the Smash Ball...that is, if they can.​

- Playstyle -

Omi may look like he poses little threat due to his size, but looks can be deceiving. Many of his moves pack a lot of punch, and if you add the fact that he's quite agile on the ground and in the air and that he's hard to hit due to his size, you've got a real force to be reckoned with.

The biggest thing that Omi can do that makes him different from most other characters is the fact that he can flood the stage with the Orb of Tornami. The fact that he can completely change the battlefield can certainly turn the tide in his favor and ruin opponents' strategies (especially those based on gimping!). Omi is strong enough and fast enough to hold his own in a fight without being surrounded by water, but if you really want to give your opponent a hard time, make flooding the stage a priority. All it takes is roughly three seconds of spraying the ground with the Orb of Tornami, but of course, you need to make sure you can accomplish that. You can try a fully-charged Orb of Tornami to freeze the foe in place to buy yourself some time. Most of Omi's moves are quite powerful, and just sending your opponent flying might give you enough room to start spraying. Park yourself with your back to a ledge or other obstacle, such as a wall, and use the Orb of Tornami itself to repel your opponents by pushing them away with water.

Once you've successfully flooded the stage, watch and laugh as your opponents struggle to stay afloat! Poor jumpers and characters with poor midair attacks will have a very hard time trying to get to Omi, who is able to simply walk, run, and jump circles around them while peppering them with hits. Foes will try to make their way to the nearest platform (if one exists, lol Final Destination), so stay near one and try to keep them away from it. Mantis Flip Coin becomes an excellent move to catch opponents in midair with. The Two-Ton Tunic suddenly becomes a force to be reckoned with, as it is able to start dangerous tidal waves that can send your opponents to their doom. If your opponent is stranded in the water near a side blast zone, drop into the water while wearing the Two-Ton Tunic to sweep them away. If you've got precise aim, you can alternatively try to land on top of them for a spike into the depths. Don't forget to remove the Tunic before you drown, too!

Tidal waves will also carry floating ice platforms created by the Orb of Tornami and/or Down Aerial for the ride, too. Speaking of those ice platforms, they are solid, so it is possible to create one on top of an opponent in the water and prevent them from jumping out. They'll have to swim to get out from under the platform and get air. Keep in mind that you can create two at a time, so with some careful manipulation of the platforms and waves and your own interference with your attacks, you might be able to trap foes underwater until they drown for a KO! The platforms are also handy in team battles, especially if your teammate is not named Omi. Create platforms for your teammate to stand on so they're not reduced to flailing around in the water too.

Keep in mind that the water on the stage will slowly recede over time, so make sure you refill it with the Orb of Tornami when you get the chance, otherwise the water level will sink completely below the main platform and you'll have to start all over again.

You may have noticed that many of Omi's moves, such as Up Tilt, Up Aerial, Up Smash, and Up Throw send your opponent flying straight up (go figure). This is where the Lunar Locket comes in. In addition to raising the water level so that the fight is much closer to the top blast zone, it is also capable of summoning the moon for fancy vertical KOs! Use the aforementioned moves to send your opponent into the air and finish them off by calling the moon down to hit them. Up Tilt or Up Smash or Up Throw followed by the Up Aerial are pretty good ways of gaining vertical distance, although at high percentages or in certain conditions (such as being on water), the Up Smash and Up Throw alone might be sufficient. The Up Smash is especially useful on the water, since you don't even need to be right next to your foes to hit them; the rip currents caused by your spinning will bring them to you. Your opponent will try to use DI to avoid getting hit by the moon, so be flexible by moving around to catch them regardless of where they move. Also keep in mind that the moon is only capable of KOing as it comes down, so you may have to keep changing the tides in order to have access to this handy move.

As for horizontal KOs, we've already been over the tidal waves caused by the Two-Ton Tunic, so let's look at Omi's other ground moves. Omi's Jab Combo , Tilts, and Dash Attack are all good for damage racking. Keep in mind that Up Tilt, Down Tilt, and Dash Attack are all augmented by being on water, and against swimming opponents, you may have to angle your Forward Tilt in order to hit them with it. Once you've racked up enough damage, Forward Smash and Down Smash become great KO options. While they are both used to send foes flying horizontally, each has their little quirks (recall that Down Smash is strictly horizontal, covers both sides and gives Omi a buff, while Forward Smash hits on one side and charges slightly faster over water).

Omi's other Aerials are pretty handy too. We've already covered Down Aerial's platform capabilities and Up Aerial's combo potential. Neutral Aerial is another quick and handy option for catching foes who are in midair to rack up damage, while Omi's Forward Aerial is quite strong and effective for approaching, and can even net a KO if you're near the side blast zones. If you're gutsy, try landing the Back Aerial; its power will likely net you a KO as well if you can land it.

Omi is capable of grabbing foes out of the water, so feel free to pick on swimming, defenseless enemies! Remember that his Up, Side, and Down Throws are more powerful on the water, so use the one that best fits your current situation.

And that's Omi in a nutshell! He's a fast damage racker that excels at midair combat and can fend foes off effectively on land and especially on water. His size makes him hard to hit, but he is quite light too, so don't get too in over your head. Play smart and flow like water, young Xiaolin Dragon, and you'll be able to control the battlefield as you see fit!

- Extras -

Up Taunt -



Omi raises one hand, then with a smug look on his face says, "Talk to my fingers!"

Side Taunt -

Omi strikes a threatening pose and says, "Enough chat-chit!"

Down Taunt -

Omi pumps a fist and says, "In your head!"

Victory Pose 1 -

Omi does a couple of kicks at the camera and says, "I have angry skills!" From the background, Kimiko's voice can be heard saying, "Mad skills," to which Omi replies, "Correct!"

Victory Pose 2 -

Omi slaps his hands together as if finishing a dirty job and says, "Piece of pie!" Raimundo can be heard in the background saying "It's piece of cake," to which Omi replies, "That too!"

Victory Pose 3 -



Omi conjures a ribbon of water and gracefully manipulates it in the air.

Loss Pose -

Omi puts his hands together and bows deeply.

Character Entrance - and yells, "Gong Yi Tanpai!!!" (that means "Go!")

Costumes - Omi's standard robes come in Red (default), Yellow, Green, Black, and White. Here's his special Blue ninja costume:



Series Symbol - The yin-yang, a prominent Chinese symbol used frequently in Xiaolin Showdown.



Kirby Hat - Kirby gains Omi's eyebrows and that nine-dot pattern on his forehead. He's now able to use the Orb of Tornami, but he can't flood the stage like Omi can.


* The End *
 

Agi

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
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Location
SE Washington
Omi

This is like the fourth Xiolin Showdown set in recent history I mean what is with the overrepresentation people.

Anyway, Omi's a pretty cool set. I like how the water is less of an arbitrary move interaction and more of an unobtrusive buff to Omi's attacks... I just wish I could say the same thing to about the way you handled the water covering the stage. Somehow, forcing the foes to be limited to nothing but their aerials sounds blatantly OP, even if it does take three seconds to get up. I'd vastly prefer it if the water level only got ankle-high to the main stage itself... it could still slow down opponents, but it wouldn't rob them of all hope of fighting Omi.

While I wasn't overwhelmed by the set, something about its simplicity clicked with me. The simple interactions with the water such as the Two-ton Tunic's tidal waves were masterfully made... not to mention the hilarious move names throughout. Snake Eating Ice Cream? Rooster Riding Elevator? I don't care if you didn't come up with the names, they're still amazing. I also got a kick out of Omi's FSmash... I just visualized it as a fist-shaped Hadoken. The set does have some minor spelling errors and a few awkward moves (Side Special calling down the moon seems... a bit out of place, even if I do love the effect), but it was overall quite solid, and I'd probably place it above Jack Spicer.


Ha ha, short character, short font? Ha? Hahahaha nevermind.
 
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
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The Make Your Move Rooligan Society
Omi
Methinks that the movement for MYM8 is Xialon Slowdown - though I like it that way. With Omi done all you need to do is make movesets for the other 2 guys and you win. This moveset has images anyway so it is already win through a skim.

I like this guy already; he reminds me of Mr. Happy. On the other hand, he reminds me of Ness and Lucas, which is a no. Eh, not like that matters.

At first glance, I really like your little concept of titling the mechanic Omi has going for his Neutral Special; it makes understanding a hell of a lot easier. For his Specials, Omi has a lot going for him; he can flood the stage, use amour to create tidal waves and spike foes, and even use the moon to kill people! Using a vertical kill method against swimming dudes is pretty creative.

I remember you saying that Xialon Slowdown isn't the most serious show, which I can perfectly believe from the ridiculous but funny attack names like Bear eating Ice Cream. I would think that flooding the stage would be a rather difficult task for 3 seconds wait, though it does makes Omi quite overpowered for a limited amount of time. *_*

In short, Omi = cool. Like Agi above, I'd also place him above Jack Spicer, who I still like anyway. I am looking forward to your next Xialon Slowdown moveset.
 

BKupa666

Barnacled Boss
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Toxic Tower
OMI
I notice you've used the exact same color scheme you used with Clay; even though they're from the same series, I'd prefer you switch it up a bit in the future. I'm sure I'm not the only one who can agree with this sentiment. It sure bit me in the arse when I used the same organization for 3 out of 6 of my MYM5 sets. Anyways, when I read the bit about flooding the stage, Ludicolo hopped to mind, which isn't really a good thing. But...you managed to captivate me enough with Omi's various interactions with the water.

Creating a tidal wave using the armor he uses in the series is ingenious, as is summoning the moon (although I don't like how this input is a Side Special). Unlike agi, I don't see much of a problem with the water level, seeing as how the foe can use more than aerials if they get up on the safe platforms. The water also forces characters into the air on stages without platforms, which is where he wants them to go in the first place, so he can knock them out with the moon. Without a doubt, this set is better than Jack Splicer. I told you when I commented Clay that I expected big things from you in the future, and Omi is definitely a big thing. Hopefully we get more Omis in the future from you.
 

Lusitania

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
9
Omi has a cool concept with flooding the stage. I don't know if it's canon because I never saw Xiolin Showdown but I've seen some videos on Youtube and they look pretty interesting.

I saw BKupa666's article on wordpress and I have to say I am making another pokemon set. I'll give it full 100% effort since I've read the articles on the OP and have learned what priority is. I'm doing Lickitung so I hope you like it.
 

Wizzerd

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
929
Omi

tl;dr version of Omi: EVERYTHING = WATER GUN

Just kidding, of course. Water manipulation was already used in Ludicolo, but Omi doesn't require a neverending setup phase like Ludicolo (even if setup is still there) and actually has quite a bit more to him than just water manipulation. There are loads of fun ways to manipulate the water like making tidal waves with the Two-Ton Tunic and walking on the water.

At the same time, I'm sort of confused on the mechanics of walking on water. So he can walk on it for five seconds... okay, what happens after that? Does he start swimming, ready to start walking on it again? Does he automatically drown? And can he initiate it while swimming? It's just such a cool mechanic, I'd like some more elaboration on it.

Also, while I don't really mind the water forcing aerials, there are a couple of things I found sort of off in terms of balance, most notably the Up Smash. Characters can't swim that fast, and being able to catch them from a platform on either side sounds sort of ridiculous. In fact, I'd generally nerf a lot of the moves that manipulate the water since they'd be so difficult to doge. That being said, this is pretty basic number tweaking stuff so I can't begrudge you too heavily for it.

Overall, I definitely enjoyed Omi more than I did Jack Spicer. Even Omi's less relevant moves have pretty unique effects (I'd spam the hell out of that jab) and that's before getting into what agi mentioned, the awesome titles. Mantis Doing Cartwheels, Bear Making Pizza... XD Omi's definitely a successful take on a water manipulator, so good job.​
 

cutter

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,316
Location
Getting drilled by AWPers
Omi is a character that I would have to actually see being used in an actual Smash game to see how stupid good he could be with his neutral special.

Rather than repeat what has already been said, I'll bring up something else. One of the things that hasn't been exactly mentioned is how Omi's good air game and his neutral special interact with each other for excellent synergy. A flooded stage results in an opponent having to continuously jump out of the water and into the air... which is where you want them to be to nail someone with Omi's aerials (especially that Bair). These small and unnoticed synergies within a moveset are something that I really enjoy seeing, because they really help to set the tone for the character's overall playstyle.
 

MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
2,814
Location
Crocodilopolis/White King’s Paradise
OMI

First, let’s get out all of the parroting of other comments out of the way – yes, he’s better than Spicer, and Spicer was better than your previous works. You’re improving with each consecutive set you make, and you’re really starting to go places. As for the negative thing that’s getting parroted, the awkward nature of the Side Special. . .Regardless of it being a bit awkward to actually hit foes with the moon, it factors in very well with his gameplan and is surprisingly intuitive with all of his up inputs being launchers to set-up dropping the moon on them. So yeah, it’s not really a problem.

The main attraction to the set is without a doubt the stage flooding and the various interactions with the water, and it’s all handled pretty well, especially with Omi’s good air-game as Cutter mentioned. Yeah, there’s a bit of number tweaking to do here and there, but for the most part it’s good. . .What I don’t like is how it forces aerial fights and invalidates gimping/stage control strategies. The ice platforms don’t help those characters, and even for grounded characters the ice only lasts so long – nevermind how Omi is the one able to create it and not the enemy who wants land to stand on.

Then again, the water level eventually comes back down anyway – that’s the main number tweaking I’d like to actually see, as you never say how long it takes. Characters who rely on gimping are generally more offensive and can pressure Omi into a gimp and prevent him from flooding the stage, and ideally all of the stage alterations and what-not would still be there when the water level went back down, so. . .I rather just destroyed my own complaint, didn't I?

While there are a lot of simple inputs, they’re mostly surprisingly relevant to his game and the set is much more thought out then it looks at a glance with surprising amounts of depth. Good read.
 
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
4,319
Location
North Carolina
Thanks so much for all the feedback, guys! :bee: It helps a lot, especially when you all point out different things; things that worked well and things that can be improved on.

Like Jack Spicer and Clay, I've pretty much had most of Omi planned out since MYM4: Two-Ton Tunic, Lunar Locket, all of his Aerials, Smashes, some Throws, etc. The one thing that came to me very recently (like, two weeks ago) was the stage-flooding mechanic, and it hit me as exactly what was needed to bring together the rather disjointed previous version of Omi. I'm glad I made the change. :psycho:

Omi

This is like the fourth Xiolin Showdown set in recent history I mean what is with the overrepresentation people.

Anyway, Omi's a pretty cool set. I like how the water is less of an arbitrary move interaction and more of an unobtrusive buff to Omi's attacks... I just wish I could say the same thing to about the way you handled the water covering the stage. Somehow, forcing the foes to be limited to nothing but their aerials sounds blatantly OP, even if it does take three seconds to get up. I'd vastly prefer it if the water level only got ankle-high to the main stage itself... it could still slow down opponents, but it wouldn't rob them of all hope of fighting Omi.

While I wasn't overwhelmed by the set, something about its simplicity clicked with me. The simple interactions with the water such as the Two-ton Tunic's tidal waves were masterfully made... not to mention the hilarious move names throughout. Snake Eating Ice Cream? Rooster Riding Elevator? I don't care if you didn't come up with the names, they're still amazing. I also got a kick out of Omi's FSmash... I just visualized it as a fist-shaped Hadoken. The set does have some minor spelling errors and a few awkward moves (Side Special calling down the moon seems... a bit out of place, even if I do love the effect), but it was overall quite solid, and I'd probably place it above Jack Spicer.

Ha ha, short character, short font? Ha? Hahahaha nevermind.
Thanks for the comment, Agi! (Guess you decided not to save it for the Recap after all.) The water is probably the most "unsmash" thing I've ever used in a moveset, and I was hoping it wouldn't seem too overpowered.

And I'm glad you liked the attack names! I did make them all up, although it's something Omi did in the show. Thanks again!

Omi
Methinks that the movement for MYM8 is Xialon Slowdown - though I like it that way. With Omi done all you need to do is make movesets for the other 2 guys and you win. This moveset has images anyway so it is already win through a skim.

At first glance, I really like your little concept of titling the mechanic Omi has going for his Neutral Special; it makes understanding a hell of a lot easier. For his Specials, Omi has a lot going for him; he can flood the stage, use amour to create tidal waves and spike foes, and even use the moon to kill people! Using a vertical kill method against swimming dudes is pretty creative.

I remember you saying that Xialon Slowdown isn't the most serious show, which I can perfectly believe from the ridiculous but funny attack names like Bear eating Ice Cream. I would think that flooding the stage would be a rather difficult task for 3 seconds wait, though it does makes Omi quite overpowered for a limited amount of time. *_*

In short, Omi = cool. Like Agi above, I'd also place him above Jack Spicer, who I still like anyway. I am looking forward to your next Xialon Slowdown moveset.
Thanks for commenting, Kat! When I realized the Orb of Tornami description was getting long, I decided to make a separate section for the special mechanic. Glad you found it helpful!

OMI
I notice you've used the exact same color scheme you used with Clay; even though they're from the same series, I'd prefer you switch it up a bit in the future. I'm sure I'm not the only one who can agree with this sentiment. It sure bit me in the arse when I used the same organization for 3 out of 6 of my MYM5 sets. Anyways, when I read the bit about flooding the stage, Ludicolo hopped to mind, which isn't really a good thing. But...you managed to captivate me enough with Omi's various interactions with the water.

Creating a tidal wave using the armor he uses in the series is ingenious, as is summoning the moon (although I don't like how this input is a Side Special). Unlike agi, I don't see much of a problem with the water level, seeing as how the foe can use more than aerials if they get up on the safe platforms. The water also forces characters into the air on stages without platforms, which is where he wants them to go in the first place, so he can knock them out with the moon. Without a doubt, this set is better than Jack Splicer. I told you when I commented Clay that I expected big things from you in the future, and Omi is definitely a big thing. Hopefully we get more Omis in the future from you.
Thanks for your thoughts, BKupa! I'm glad you noticed I used the same template for both Clay and Omi; back in the day I planned to post them all at around the same time, so I didn't think using the same layout would be too terrible of a thing to do. If it really is detrimental, I'll consider changing it up for future sets. The Side Special input seems to be a common complaint; the reason it's the Side Special is because the attack was sort of different before decided to include the stage flooding mechanic. :ohwell: Thanks again for your comments!

Omi has a cool concept with flooding the stage. I don't know if it's canon because I never saw Xiolin Showdown but I've seen some videos on Youtube and they look pretty interesting.
Welcome back to MYM, Lusitania! (Looks like BKupa's article worked!) The Orb of Tornami was capable of flooding an entire area, and that happened in at least one episode.

Omi

tl;dr version of Omi: EVERYTHING = WATER GUN

At the same time, I'm sort of confused on the mechanics of walking on water. So he can walk on it for five seconds... okay, what happens after that? Does he start swimming, ready to start walking on it again? Does he automatically drown? And can he initiate it while swimming? It's just such a cool mechanic, I'd like some more elaboration on it.

Also, while I don't really mind the water forcing aerials, there are a couple of things I found sort of off in terms of balance, most notably the Up Smash. Characters can't swim that fast, and being able to catch them from a platform on either side sounds sort of ridiculous. In fact, I'd generally nerf a lot of the moves that manipulate the water since they'd be so difficult to doge. That being said, this is pretty basic number tweaking stuff so I can't begrudge you too heavily for it.

Overall, I definitely enjoyed Omi more than I did Jack Spicer. Even Omi's less relevant moves have pretty unique effects (I'd spam the hell out of that jab) and that's before getting into what agi mentioned, the awesome titles. Mantis Doing Cartwheels, Bear Making Pizza... XD Omi's definitely a successful take on a water manipulator, so good job.​
Thanks Wiz! Just to clarify for you (and I'll edit it in later), Omi's able to remain on top of the water for about 5 seconds, after which he'll immediately start swimming. All it takes is jumping out of the water again to reset the timer. I'm glad you pointed out the Up Smash, though I was thinking maybe simply jumping out of the water really fast would be the best method of escape. Perhaps I should've researched Smash's swimming mechanic a little more. Glad you liked the Jab, too. Thanks again!

Omi is a character that I would have to actually see being used in an actual Smash game to see how stupid good he could be with his neutral special.

Rather than repeat what has already been said, I'll bring up something else. One of the things that hasn't been exactly mentioned is how Omi's good air game and his neutral special interact with each other for excellent synergy. A flooded stage results in an opponent having to continuously jump out of the water and into the air... which is where you want them to be to nail someone with Omi's aerials (especially that Bair). These small and unnoticed synergies within a moveset are something that I really enjoy seeing, because they really help to set the tone for the character's overall playstyle.
Thanks cutter! Yeah, I guess the synergy between the the air game and Specials did turn out well. It's one of the things I hoped would translate, since it all made sense in my head while I imagined Omi fighting in a Smash game. :)

OMI

The main attraction to the set is without a doubt the stage flooding and the various interactions with the water, and it’s all handled pretty well, especially with Omi’s good air-game as Cutter mentioned. Yeah, there’s a bit of number tweaking to do here and there, but for the most part it’s good. . .What I don’t like is how it forces aerial fights and invalidates gimping/stage control strategies. The ice platforms don’t help those characters, and even for grounded characters the ice only lasts so long – nevermind how Omi is the one able to create it and not the enemy who wants land to stand on.

Then again, the water level eventually comes back down anyway – that’s the main number tweaking I’d like to actually see, as you never say how long it takes. Characters who rely on gimping are generally more offensive and can pressure Omi into a gimp and prevent him from flooding the stage, and ideally all of the stage alterations and what-not would still be there when the water level went back down, so. . .I rather just destroyed my own complaint, didn't I?

While there are a lot of simple inputs, they’re mostly surprisingly relevant to his game and the set is much more thought out then it looks at a glance with surprising amounts of depth. Good read.
Thanks for the comment, MW! I figured you wouldn't like the anti-gimping water. (smirk) Yeah, I did leave the duration of the water open-ended, but I can edit that in. It takes roughly 30 seconds for the water at low tide to completely recede, and if other stage alterations last that long, then they'll still be there once the water's gone. I hope that's good enough. Thanks again for your feedback! I hope I can keep improving in the future.
 

Junahu

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
893
Location
Shropshire Slasher
Pokey-syndrome discussion:
As always, I miss some pretty big happenings whenever I'm not around. By my reckoning, "Pokemon Syndrome" is when someone uses a pokemon attack without truly understanding its context. Pokemon don't have the ability to learn moves for "no reason", they are integral to establishing both their character, and their potential growth as Pokemon. But misinterpretting the meaning behind those attacks (e.g. assuming Clefable and Nidoking use Strength in the same way) is what causes a Pokemon to appear out-of-character. To reiterate, it's not the attack that is out-of-character, its when people literally interpret the attack the way other Pokemon use it that's out-of-character
A common example is that a lot of Pokemon that learn Mean Look don't use their eyes to perform this move (Zubat doesn't even have eyes) but rather anatomical protrusions and markings that have the appearance of eyes. Thinking that every Pokemon uses their eyes for Mean Look just leads to ludicrous assumptions.

Anyway, the problems I see with Glameow, are that they take attacks and give them a literal interpretation, rather than asking yourself "WHY does Glameow learn this attack? What does it say about her disposition as a cat?". For example, SWIFT is meant to insinuate that the Pokemon moves quickly and accurately as to never miss (the show's interpretation is just a ******** attempt to magic-ify an otherwise simple move). Since Glameow is a cat, and learns other moves like Quick Attack, it makes sense to interpret Swift as Glameow moving quickly.
Other moves like Fake Out, Dig and the myriad claw attacks are meant to exemplify Galmeow's qualities as a cat, a cute domestic pet (Attract, Captivate, Charm) with a hunter's instincts (Fake Out, Fury Swipes, Sucker Punch)



Ventus:
Keyblade users must be pretty hard to make movesets for. They're all connected to one another, so beyond the transformations, a lot of these are Sora/Roxas' moves and very familiar territory all round. The writing style doesn't play up the set enough to make it fun to read, but it is an extremely solid set, and its told with more than enough authority to make me believe you. Compared to previous "press A to continue scripted combo" efforts, Ventus actually gives the player sufficient motive to consider breaking away from it once in a while, so the extra presses of A are validated.
It's a little limp in that it offers little new, or exciting, but that should hardly be considered a negative. Moveset making is serious business after all, and for all the bore while reading, Ventus would undeniably be a exciting rush to actually play.



Black Cat:
That image cracks me up, Spiderman is just kind of 'preparing' in the background, while the Black Cat puts on her gloves, with a knowing smirk to the audience.
The two grappling recoveries could have very easily been compressed into one, though Zero-Suit-Samus does much the same thing, so I can understand the consistancy here. I'm surprised the remaining special couldn't double up as a trip-wire, since its use as a platform creator is contextual at best.
Anyhow, the rest of the moveset seems to work well in conjunction with a tightrope, but more importantly than that, it's (for the most part) actually cat-like. The writing, sadly, could have characterised these feline movements a bit better. Because, without a comic-book villain-eske litheness to it, Black Cat reads like a remake of Zero-Suit-Samus
¬_¬ Making something only useable 3 times... IN THE WHOLE MATCH!? What's wrong with you!? If I want to make awesome screenshots of this move, I'd have to get it within three uses, otherwise having to reset the match to try again.


Now, I know what you're thinking. And no, this rant isn't about the movesets. This rant isn't about "Sakurai inputs." Nope, this rant is about our ****ing leaders: Warlord, Smady, Rool, etc. They are men who I looked up to when I first joined this site. They are men who have been with this contest since the beginning. They are the highest class of moveset makers.

But as of lately, they are just politicians. I've looked around the thread ant the Stadium, and most of what I see is just one thing: SLANDER, SLANDER, and God**** SLANDER. Not arguments, just leaders slandering leaders. And right now, I don't give a crap about who's right. I just want there to be peace.

Seriously, what happened? Sure, there was arguing in MYM7. But it wasn't nearly as bad as this. In my opinion, Kat deserves to be a leader more than MW or Smady. Why? Because he's actually trying to keep this great contest fun. I'm not so sure about me, because I've already been corrupted by the leader's draconian ways (whatever that means).

Here's the bottom line. It's not the movesets; It's the moveset makers. And Juhanu, I'm not talking to you, because you actually stood up for me and Kat.
Yeah, the way most of the veterans approach MYM nowadays is borderline vindictive. But I'd like to attribute this to our changing climate as a community. Things are very different to the way they were in MYM7, and when you're running the show, a change like that comes as a big shock. I hope you don't hold these temporary transgressions against them, as like everyone else, the leaders are only human, and every now and then, they need to rant.
 

darth meanie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
452
I'm Not Dead!

Magmortar






Stats


Magmortar is a pretty big Pokemon. He has the same general body shape as King Dedede, and is only slightly smaller. However, he’s surprisingly light for his size, being just above average in the weight department. Hot air rises and all that. Speaking of which, Magmortar also has a terribly slow fall speed, one of the slowest in the game.

Because Magmortar’s stats aren’t gimped enough yet, he’s also pretty slow moving; that rotund body of his isn’t making any records in the Pokeathlon! Not only does he have a very slow dash speed and weak traction, he also has terrible aerial DI too! Even at attacking he’s pretty slow. His Up Tilt is even laggier than Ganondorf’s famous kick. To top things off, he’s got odd traction. While his traction is very solid while walking, he’s very slippery when running. Must be that top-heavy body of his.

Don’t count Magmortar out though; he hits pretty hard, and, has some pretty ridiculous range. Of course, seeing as he has cannons for hands, you could’ve probably guessed this. As for mobility, he has other ways around that, and a very good recovery.



Specials

Neutral Special Fire Blast

Magmortar fires a ball of fire out of his cannon that arcs forward at a medium pace. The fireball is about the size of a bumper, and explodes in an impressive, but short-lived explosion once it hits a solid surface. Magmortar can fire this attack out relatively quickly, or charge it up for up to half a second to increase the range and damage of the shot. During the split second between inputting the direction and firing the attack you can aim it in any direction, similar to the cracker launcher. By staggering the angle of the shots, you can make avoiding the attack much more difficult.

The fireball deals 7-12% damage based on charge, and moderate knockback. This attack is Magmortar’s bread-and-butter, and can be used in an assortment of ways. He can camp, damage-build, edge-guard, KO, and a whole host of other options with this attack.




Side Special Lava Plume

A slurry of molten rock pours out of Magmortar’s arms, like a flaming F.L.U.D.D. Touching the stream pushes the opponent away, but deals 3% damage a second they are in contact with it, making it impossible to gimp with this attack, as it refreshes their recovery.

Lava Plume is unfortunately just a hair too slow to be a good offensive option. Combined with its relatively low damage output, it’s hardly a reliable attack. Fortunately, you won’t be using it as a direct attack as often as you use it to make pools of lava.


Whenever a Lava Plume touches the ground, it pools into a miniature lake of lava, with more lava if the attack was held out longer. The lava will last for up to eleven seconds before cooling and disappearing. Until then though, if a foe touches the stream of lava, they instantly cancel whatever they’re doing and immediately jump into the air, just like in Super Mario 64.


Foes that touch the pooled magma cannot act until they reach the apex of their jump, and take 7% damage from hitting the lava. Magmortar, of course, is unaffected. He lives in this stuff. You can completely control your opponent’s movement with this attack; either they touch the lava, and are launched into the air, or they jump over the lava. Either way, it puts them in the air.


And when opponents are in the air, it’s much harder to avoid attacks like Fire Blast, as most characters move more slowly in the air than on the ground, and you can’t shield while in the air.


Speaking of the air, this is a pretty decent attack option in the air too. The lava falls to the ground from the air, giving it improved range and spread, and using it has a pushback effect on Magmortar; opposite reaction and such. What this means is that if you’re in the air, you can cover a relatively large area of the stage with lava fairly quickly, but beware; there’s an upper limit on how much lava you can coat the stage with, about 60%. Pour too much lava around, and the old lava will start disappearing.


Up Special Jet Flare

You may have seen this coming. In fact, I’d be disappointed if you didn’t. Magmortar shoots a column of flame out of each arm, and proceeds to prove Newtonian physics by launching himself upwards. Magmortar’s recovery functions somewhat like ROB’s; instead of shooting himself up all at once, he can fire himself around in little short bursts. More importantly, you can completely control the direction he flies. Upwards, forwards, backwards, even straight down! Traveling this way is faster than running, and much faster than his usual air speed; letting him zip around as fast as Wario through the air.

Magmortar can also stay in the air for a while; factor in his low fallspeed and his ability to move in short bursts, and it’s easy to float around above the stage, raining down death from above in hellish fire. As a recovery, it’s pretty strong too; he’s one of the few characters who can travel under Final Destination and grab the ledge on the other side.


And as if you weren’t already convinced of the incredible utility of this move, it’s a pretty decent attack too. The columns of flame have a respectable range, and deal 5% damage a second and light knockback to anyone who touches them, like a weaker flamethrower. Good for getting space between enemies and yourself, knocking them away while propelling yourself in the opposite direction.


Down Special Flame Body

Magmortar tenses, the wisps of fire on his shoulders flare up, and he becomes wreathed in fire as long as you hold the button down. A purely defensive move, anyone who touches Magmortar takes 5% damage, mild knockback, and a fair bit of hitstun. The attack is relatively easy to break through with any move that has decent priority or range, making it completely worthless if you mindlessly hold it down like an idiot.

When you first activate the attack, the range is longer for just a split second though, flinching foes and making it a decent move to force opponents who are too close away.


Also, if you hold the attack out for at least one second, it will linger for half a second after you release it, keeping his entire body coated in fire while he can still act, making his next attack that much harder to stop. It’s certainly situational, but it has its uses.



Aerials


Neutral Aerial Flame Wheel


Magmortar somersaults forward in the air, creating a disc of fire around him. This is a fairly long process, taking a little over half of a second, during which Magmortar is surrounded in a small hitbox that deals 8% damage and a fair bit of knockback, capable of KOing foes at decent percentages near the edge.

At the end of the attack though, Magmortar leaves behind a spinning wheel of fire. This wheel of fire will last for up to ten seconds, or until someone hits it. The wheel remains spinning in the direction that Magmortar rolled, and opponents who hit it are knocked away in the direction it spins, with 8% damage taken. It deals a fair bit of knockback, and can KO from 140-165%, depending on placement.


You can try to place one over a pit of lava, and knock an opponent trying to move over the magma into it, or force opponents to bounce out of lava into it and away horizontally. You can even knock enemies back higher into the air for more Fire Blasts too. There’s almost no limit to the possibilities with a Flame Wheel.


Most importantly, while Magmortar is fairly vulnerable when making it, the Flame Wheel can’t be destroyed by anything except water attacks, meaning that once it’s up, opponents must either avoid it or be hit into it.


Forward Aerial Smokescreen

Magmortar exhales a black cover of smoke around him, only dealing slight damage to opponents right in front of him. The smoke disperses into a cloud about the size of a Smart Bomb explosion in about a second, and slowly fades away over the next nine seconds. Inside the smoke, nothing can be seen, although as it fades away silhouettes will slowly become visible. While not being able to see yourself or the opponent is a major inconvenience, with Flame Wheels and Lava, it’s even more inconvenient for the opponent.

Magmortar can also light up the smokescreen with his attacks that have fire hitboxes. This means that moves like Flame Wheel, Fire Blast, Flame Body, and Jet Flare all show up as glowing areas in the smoke. However, the opponent generally cannot tell what it is lighting up the screen. You can glide over the battlefield with your Jet Flare and trick your opponent into thinking it’s a Fire Blast, or use your Flame Body to double check your position while the foe fears that you’re using Flame Wheel.

Of course, this also means that opponents can see your attacks, but you can’t see theirs. There are ways around that too though.


Up Aerial Flare Gun

Lazily leaning back in midair, Magmortar raises his right cannon to the sky, charges up energy, and fires a bright ball of light into the air. It travels upwards about the height of two Ganondorfs, dealing 10% damage and knockback that can get a clean vertical KO when used from a decent height. Afterwards, it drifts down like a sticker item, and is no longer has any hitbox. What it does though is shed a huge amount of light all around, about the size of Gardevoir’s Barrier.

This is important because it washes out the light from all of Magmortar’s other attacks and abilities, essentially giving him invisible projectiles in this zone as long as the smokescreen remains. Keep in mind that at the same time, you can no longer check where you are either until you exit the area of light. The light lasts for only four seconds too, so make them count.


Down Aerial Smog

Magmortar looks down and exhales a sickly purple cloud of noxious gases. This pillar extends a fair ways below him and deals rapid hits of 2% to enemies caught in the stream. It also has a surprising amount of hitstun attached to each hit, similar to electric attacks, making it very hard to DI out of. It pushes opponents down with it though, and with Magmortar’s inherent floatiness as well, they’ll quickly leave range of the attack before they take all that much damage. Magmortar can use this attack to push opponents down though, possibly trying to gimp offstage, but that’s not his strong suit. What it’s really good for is shoving low opponents into lava and forcing them back into the air again where you like them to be.

It also poisons any smokescreens Magmortar uses the move in, causing enemies inside the smokescreen to take 1% every two seconds they spend inside it. As if the foe didn’t have reason enough to avoid your little death cloud!


Back Aerial Confuse Ray

Magmortar holds one cannon out behind him unaffectedly, and a faint orb wobbles out of it, careening up and down before fizzling out a little later. It only does 1% damage and is easily destroyed by almost any attack or shielded, but it only barely lights up a smokescreen, almost unnoticeably.

As you may have expected, getting hit by this reverses your opponent’s controls. Boo boring generic mechanic! Well actually, this is where it gets interesting. In smokescreen, the opponent may not actually realize they’ve been confused! That already disorienting cloud of gas becomes even deadlier when the opponent can’t tell where they are or where they’re going. Confusion only lasts for five seconds, so make them count! Lure the opponent into your Fire Blasts and Flame Wheels, spread your smoke even further. You can even trick them into going right offstage without even noticing it until they’ve fallen out below the ledge. Be careful of spamming this though, if the opponent learns when to look for it they’ll be prepared when it happens. Further, it’s a pretty laggy attack, and not at all rewarding if it misses. Use it carefully, at the right time to force the foe to struggle even more.



Smashes


Down Smash Earth Power

A bolt of light spins out of Magmortar’s barrels into the ground, causing a pillar of stone to burst out. This rock wall deals 15-25% damage depending on charge, and remains on the field after the attack is completed, with the same amount of stamina as the attack that created it has. It takes Magmortar a fair bit of time to do this; it has a lengthy duration and a fair bit of end lag too.

The wall created acts as blocking terrain, it can’t be passed or rolled through like any other wall in the game. It’s great for Magmortar to camp behind or to give him some breathing room, and enemies who want to get past it have to jump over it in order too. The pillar can also be summoned at the edge, making it impossible to grab the ledge. Enemies will be able to grab onto the pillar though.


Of course, there is one big weakness; the wall itself is fairly fragile. 25% isn’t much at all to deal to a stationary target, and that’s assuming full charge. Any enemy with half a brain will quickly hug the wall to avoid your Fire Blasts, and break it quickly. The solution then is to lay lava down right outside where you erect your pillar, so enemies can’t get close to it without singeing themselves on the lava.


But wait, that’s not all! If you use your Down Smash again right in front of a pillar summoned by Earth Power, Magmortar will instead use Rock Tomb. He’ll fire the same attack, but this time the stone pillar breaks up and collapses into a pile of rocks that fades away in three seconds. Opponents can be caught in that pile of stones, taking 18-31% damage depending on charge and the stamina of the pillar, and are effectively pitfalled until they break free or the stones disappear. Unfortunately for Magmortar, he doesn’t really have any attacks that’ll hit low-lying opponents up close except his Down Smash again, sending them back up into another pillar. It’s fairly hard to hit with this attack though, as the opponent basically has to be right on the pillar when you do it, making it a situational, but fun option. Of course, if you knock an opponent offstage and have a pillar on the ledge, this becomes significantly easier as they try to return to the stage.


There’s one more thing too. If Magmortar uses this attack inside of lava instead, a pillar of lava will burst up in a goopy mess, then immediately collapse back down. Getting hit by the pillar of lava deals 21-32% damage though, and has massive set knockback upwards. You can knock an opponent back in the air and get some pretty good damage in all at once too.


Forward Smash Flamethrower

Magmortar does his best impersonation of Bowser and Charizard with this close ranged stream of fire. Unlike those characters’ flamethrowers though, Magmortar can’t keep up a continuous stream. Instead he must charge it up first to make it last longer. The blast of fire that Magmortar fires stretches longer than either that of Bowser or Charizard, but only lasts two thirds of a second uncharged. If fully charged though, the attack can last for up to two seconds. Magmortar’s fire deals hideous amounts of damage, about 20% a second, but it pushes foes out of the range at the same time, only allowing him to get about a second of fire on an enemy without factoring in DI.

Of course, if Magmortar can pin the foe to a wall, like the one he creates with a Down Smash, they can’t get out of range, meaning that you can rack some pretty impressive damage on foes with a charged up smash. Even if you don’t, you push the foe out of the way, and possibly into lava. Done right, you can even do both!


Up Smash Overheat

Magmortar’s body flames begin to rage out of control as he points his cannons downwards. This move is visually similar to his Down Special, but far more devastating. When you finish charging, Magmortar stalls for a bit as his cannons flare with intense heat. Suddenly, he is completely bathed in fire, covering himself and anything close to him in cleansing fire. This attack deals 24-36% damage, but suffers from a great deal of lag. Not only is the starting lag significant, the end lag is intense as Magmortar’s flame dies out from the overexertion.

Magmortar is forced to stand still as he attempts to reignite, taking about three quarters of a second to do. If Magmortar is standing in lava when he does this attack though, the heat from the molten crust gives him a boost and he reignites in half the time.


The attack has a great deal of vertical knockback to opponents above him or right next to him, but opponents further out take significantly reduced horizontal knockback.



Standards


Jab Ember

Not common for the jab to be coming this late into the game, huh? Anyways, in what is clearly the slowest jab in the game, Magmortar points his left cannon forward. A low rumbling sound is heard as you hold down the A button, like a machine gun turret speeding up before firing. And indeed, that is exactly what is happening. Magmortar fires out tiny embers at the opponent, single brown bullets of fire at a rapid pace. He fires about four a second, each dealing 1% damage with no hitstun but a mild push effect. The range is similar to Fox’s Blaster.

Even the slowest of enemies can move forward through the push of the ember bullets, but the constantly pelting damage can serve as a major annoyance. Gee, wouldn’t it be easier just to jump over an annoying attack like that? Exactly.


Dash Attack Flare Blitz

Another record slow attack, Magmortar coasts forward for a very short distance as his cannons heat up. Then, after he stalls out and stops moving, he suddenly and violently explodes forward as his cannons surge him forward, covering him in a wreath of fire. Enemies in his suicidal path take 11% damage and a fair amount of knockback during this reckless charge.

Magmortar can control where he lands through DI at three different points. When the attack is first input, you can choose continue to press forward on the control stick or not, controlling just how hard he shoots himself. As his cannons surge, you can then control the angle through DI again. While he ungracefully careens across the map, you can still control to a certain extent his height and distance travelled.


It’s a hard to grasp move at first, but used correctly, Magmortar can launch himself over his walls, or from one side of Final Destination to the other fairly quickly. Unfortunately though, the move has incredible lag on both ends and a long duration, and if the opponent sees where you’re going, you’re a sitting duck for a charged Up Smash or certain characters’ brutal Down Airs. Launching yourself through the cover of your smokescreen, or keeping walls to funnel your opponents away can protect you while you use this to maneuver across the map.


Forward Tilt Fire Punch

Magmortar punches in front of him for 7% damage. It’s an absolutely, utterly unremarkable punch. It’s a close range attack that doesn’t take ages to use though, which alone is notable for Magmortar. Unfortunately, while its starting lag isn’t that bad at all, it has an absurdly long duration; Magmortar stands there for about two fifths of a second after punching the enemy before stepping back from the attack. Well, at the very end of the move, the real attack occurs. A ball of fire bursts right out of his cannon at point blank, dealing 14% damage and a good bit of knockback, but not an amount that’ll KO until very high percentages.

You can use this move for either attack; either the early punch or the late fireball. Timing it right takes a bit of getting used to, but if you can predict your opponent’s approach, landing the second hit can be rather rewarding.


Down Tilt Fire Spin

A trail of fire begins to crawl along the ground at Mario’s dash speed. It stays low to the ground as it travels, utterly unthreatening to anyone in the air. If it hits an opponent on the ground though, it’ll wrap around them in a cyclone of fire, pulling the foe with it as it crawls forward for a quarter of Final Destination racking up 8% damage. Not only does it give you breathing room from opponents, you can push opponents right into lava for when the attack ends, or pin them to a stone wall while the whirlwind of flame traps them, letting you hit them with other attacks while they’re stuck there.

It’s a fairly laggy move though, like pretty much everything Magmortar has, and the trail of flame can’t go over any pillars you build with your Down Special, stopping once it hits them (unless it’s already trapped a foe). Use it right though, and the opponent will be in a world of hurt.


Up Tilt Eruption

Surprisingly, Magmortar doesn’t learn this move. Heatran only learns it by an event too, which is weird considering they are the two Pokemon most closely related to volcanism. Magmortar doesn’t learn Earth Power either though, but I’m not letting that stop me there, so I’m certainly not letting it stop me here.

This incredibly laggy attack has Magmortar slowly raise his cannon to the air and charge up his fire for a single blast. After waiting for longer than Ganondorf’s Up Tilt, he fires a rain of embers from his cannon, these ones dealing 3% damage instead of 1%. While the range is phenomenal, it just has stunning knockback. Unless of course the opponent was right on top of the cannon, then they take massive knockback, KOing as early as 90% even on the heavier brawlers. Of course, getting the foe into such a specific spot for your attack is difficult. With a well placed wall for the opponent to jump over in order to get to you though, that suddenly becomes less of a problem. Timing and placement are still important though, so make sure you fire it at the right time.



Throws


Grab Clawed Cannons

Magmortar reaches forward with his stubby little fingers extended from his cannons. It’s a fairly below average grab. It’s slower than most, and has only average range, and that’s due to his size, not his reach. If he does grab someone though, he’ll hit the with Frustration as his pummel, randomly whacking at them with his head and arms for 2% damage. What, were you expecting forced creativity? It’s a pummel.

Down Throw Facemelter

Magmortar lets go of the opponent only to stomp on their head, slamming them face first into the ground. The opponent takes 7% damage and low set knockback. This throw would be absolutely phenomenal for chaingrabbing under normal circumstances, but Magmortar’s grab and move speed is too pathetic to make any use of it. If Magmortar slams the foe’s face into lava though, the damage increases to a whopping 16%, and the opponent is knocked much further upwards, but still set knockback.

Forward Throw Suppressing Fire

Magmortar tosses the foe away lightly for 6% damage, then immediately fires several embers above his head. These embers each deal 1% damage, and fall in front of Magmortar right after the opponent regains movement. If the foe immediately rushes back at Magmortar, they’ll be pelted by the embers for another 5% more damage. But that’s not all! If Magmortar tosses them into lava, they’ll immediately jump into the embers from the effect of the lava! How horrible.

This attack also deals set knockback, allowing Magmortar to just knock opponents over his stone pillars, making it even harder for foes to get to him with this attack.


Back Throw Mortar Fire

Magmortar stuffs the foes head into his right arm, then turns around. You can then aim an angle, and Magmortar blows the foe out of his cannon for 12% damage and knockback that KOs around 140%. Kill them, toss them in lava, knock them over a stone pillar, just get them out of here.

Up Throw Vertical Launch

Magmortar just lightly tosses the opponent into the air, and then launches himself upwards, hitting the foe for 4% damage. He then fires his cannons like afterburners, flinging himself and the opponent away from each other in the air for another 7% damage. You can control the angle at which they are launched slightly, and get distance between the two of you. More importantly, this move puts you both in the air. Great for maneuvering the fight from the ground to the smoke.


Final Smash: Magma Storm


Magmortar raises his cannons skyward as lava pours in from behind him. It forms into a giant ring that begins to circle around the stage, about the same distance away as an opponent jumps from stepping into lava. Magmortar becomes invincible, and if a foe is hit into it, they take 12% damage and massive knockback back into the ring, likely hitting them back into lava or into the ring again. If Magmortar has lava already out on the stage, more rings will form, spinning and bouncing foes between them for more and more damage. The Final Smash lasts about ten seconds, during which the enemy is repeatedly battered against the lava until their damage hits incredibly levels or they are knocked between a gap in the lava, sent careening offstage to their deaths.


Playstyle


It’s possible to play Magmortar entirely as a camper. With stone pillars made with Earth Power and well aimed Fire Blasts, you can play defensively while pelting the foe with fireballs without too much trouble. You can play Magmortar as a trap character, using Flame Wheels, Fire Spins, and Lava Plume to throw characters around the field. You can play him as a mindgamer, and an edgeguarder, using the cover of smokescreen to confuse and blast at the foe, moving them towards the edge, and keeping them from reaching the ledge with a well placed Flame Wheel and Earth Power. But Magmortar works best when you work all of these concepts and styles together in concert, making him truly a force to be reckoned with.

Let’s return to Lava Plume. Magmortar has several uses for this move. It does a fantastic job of shaping the opponent’s movement; either they step in the lava and are knocked into the air, jump over it, putting them in the exact same position, or simply avoid crossing it, leaving them vulnerable to Fire Blast rain. Early in the match you’ll generally want your pool of lava to be between yourself and your enemy, to try to hit them with Fire Blasts in midair, where they’re more difficult to avoid. Later in the match though, you’ll want to use it as a defense, standing on the magma itself, in order to force your opponent to approach you from above, where you can hit them with moves like Eruption, Earth Power, and Overheat, using the heat of the lava to regain his strength faster.

Pillars from Earth Power add a second dimension to this game, especially when used in conjunction with your plumes of lava. Lay down some molten rock next to one of your pillars to improve your defenses, and hang back on the other side. If they fail to get over your wall, they’ll be funneled down into the lava, taking more damage and getting popped up for a second hit, or you can grab a foe who gets to close, and toss them over the wall into the fire with your back and forward throws. On the other side, you can use the stone walls to force foes into lava with Fire Spin or Flamethrower. You can trap them against the walls for repeated hits, then let them get knocked back into the air so you can wail on them with more Fire Blasts. Combining offense with defense, you can effectively use the terrain no matter where you are.

These pillars also hamper enemy mobility while barely affecting your own. Using Magmortar’s Dash Attack, or some well placed jets from his Up Special, you can sail over these pillars with ease, maneuvering around to one side or the other to refresh your lava pools or to harass enemies. A well placed Dash Attack can catapult Magmortar across the map to any place you’d like, but suffers from punishable lag if you abuse it. Magmortar has awkward movement where he’s normally rather slow and has a tendency to stay still, but he can suddenly jerk around the stage to reach a better position, move in or out of range, and reform the terrain to his liking.

In the air is where Magmortar shines as well. At melee, he can perform dangerous hit and fade attacks by using his Up Special, pointing it directly away from the enemy to knock them away with a jet of fire while repositioning yourself. Use Smokescreen to your further advantage; obscuring their position while letting you identify yourself. With Confuse Ray and Flare Gun, you can make the air a living hell for opponents, with invisible traps and projectiles scattered about as the foe isn’t quite certain whether they’re going to direction they think they are or not. With a bit of ingenuity and luck, you can even trick the opponent into self destructing by getting them to move right offstage without even knowing it. Flame Wheels are useful both for fighting in the air and on the ground. Use them to knock approaching characters into lava, and then back up into the wheel to knock them towards you. Make approaches difficult and bounce foes around with Fire Blasts or edgeguard with a well placed wheel of flame offstage.

Magmortar isn’t without his weaknesses of course. His attacks are perhaps the laggiest in the entire game. His Up Tilt is even laggier than Ganondorf’s, and many of his other moves are difficultly slow. This is why you have to effectively funnel your opponent’s movement, keep them away with maneuvering tactics, and force them to approach in a way you’re built to handle; he’s easily combed once he’s actually hit, and some characters can even use his own stone walls against him for infinities. You need to think one step ahead of your opponents to play as Magmortar.

Fortunately though, Magmortar isn’t limited to just one strategy. With his maneuverability and ability to modify the terrain, he can quickly regain lost ground. More than that though, he can adapt his strategies to different opponents. It’s impossible to cover the stage with smoke, lava, and pillars and still keep up with the opponent in damage. You have to commit to one strategy at a time, staying two steps ahead of the opponent, adapting to different strategies and characters. Does the opponent have a weak recovery? A predictable approach? Are you still building damage, or are you looking for the KO? Magmortar can modify his tactics to take on all sorts of characters. He can approach defensive opponents using his jets, and wreck their defenses and set up with a well placed Lava Plume. Against rushdown characters he can use his own defenses to force opponents into predictable routes to attack him, and take advantage with well placed Fire Blasts. He can even play aggressively with proper use of moves like Fire Spin and Lava Plume to supplement his approach, and disrupt foes with smokescreen while wailing away at them. Because of that, Magmortar is popular as a secondary character, as he doesn’t have many truly bad match-ups, while boasting effective immunity to King Dedede’s chaingrab with well placed Lava Plumes.
 
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
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The Make Your Move Rooligan Society
Magmortar
It's pretty cool of you to get your 3rd set out to MYM; a remake-ish of your 2nd set none the less! He looks like a 1 day set, but that is not meant as a insult, it is not to be discouraging to ya - the timing your post is excellent. I realised that in the past I was too blatantly negative about commenting on sets where the expectations were high. Of course, it's meant to be fun.

One of the things that comes to mind at first with the stats is showcasing Magmortar's bad stats and his good moves; Lava Plume instantly reminds me of my own Heatran set, yours being a pretty cool different one.

Once Magmortar's Aerials become obvious, his playstyle begins to show up; a trap character thingy who uses mindgames with smoke and benefits with fire. And then after the aerials I just realised that Magmortar fights like Stanley. Don't worry though, nobody is going to sue you, I certainally won't.

Having Smashes that do 36% at fully charged is a trend of yours methinks - just pointing out.

It might be a different concept, though methinks that Magmortar's funky-like Aerial ganme kinda died down when you got to the Smashes and beyond. (_) But that doesn't stop him from being a pretty good darth meanie set. It wasn't FUN OR EDUCATIONAL for me, but it was MOTIVATIONAL, given your stats as a MYMer, it makes me want to get another set out. I thank you for that (that is what it means to be a leader).
 

Kholdstare

Yeah we gay, keep scrollin'.
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Oct 10, 2008
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M̯̭̥̰̲͆̓͛̔a̸͚̣̹͍ͧͨ̉ͪ̃g̻̣̰̹͎̖̣͌͊́m̩͋͂̓̊͗ǫ̤͊̾r͎̝͍̲̤͐͟t͐̚a̧̜r̸̹͖ͮ̆͂̉ ̤͚̹͈̮͚̊ͣͮ̿i͍̳̞͋̉s̱͍ͭ ̜̥͚̬̰͇ͨ͐̌̈́ͫa̯̭̋ͣ́̇̌̇ͅ ͉͈̼͙͑͜ͅp̷̝͔̼̲͙r̛ͮ̄ͤ̍̓̀͋ȩ͕͇̽̔t̟̂̌ͫ̃͞t̰͓̞͓͚ͧͧ̌y̮̘̠̜̺̰̼ͯ̏͂ͮ ̯͙̰̳̘̣͔͠c̗̓̃̾́ǫ̜̺̭ȏ̧̠́ͥl̩͇̖̥̮̪̰͐͛̽̐̉̈̍ ̹̩͎͍͟rͣ͐̒͢e̱͝m͔͇͇̰̯̠̤a͚͙̲̭͚̠̙̋ͮͨ̌̓̒̚k̙̣̯͊ͤ͌͐ͩ̑ͥë͇̫̝̮̟̣͍́̏̅̒ͪ̐̽ ̰̦ͩ̽̑ͯ̌̓o̤͙f͛ͦ ͖̬̝̩̱̹͌y̸̺o̦ͣu̒r̖ͤͫͬ̂ ̮̠Ḿ̧̊͐̄̂̃Y̹͑ͯͮ̀M͔͕̍̀ͥͧ͊̃̎5̛͇̤̲̤̙̱͗̓̎̓ͬ ̬̣̘̤̣̮̮͗̈ͭs̖̑e̬̬ͦ̿ͧ̄̅ͣ̃t̜̆̓̔͋ͫ̚.̜̟̰͉͇̝̍́ ̿̈́́̓҉̖̤̬̰I̟̥͆̍̎ͬ ̘̲̭͕͕̇̐̄̐̂ͩ̈́͘ľ͖͕o̫̭̜̭̠̙̔͆v͕̬͉̬ͥ͆̈́ͭͦ̈́̒̕e̲̜̠̹͖ ̨͕̟̳͕͇̹̽͌̓͆ͣh̃̃î͖̑͢s͓̪͆̓ͣ ͎͍̙̙̬͐v̨̞ͬa̭̞͆̎ͭ̋̍̽̍r̖̟̗͖͎̬̜̐̂ȋ̠̘̬̦ͥ̍͗͆̌a̮͙͍̤̜̮͉͊̈̒b̟̖̃͆ͧ̊̓l̨͙̗̮ͨ̾ͪ̅ė̝́̉̆ͮͬͩ ͙̄͐͗̈́͠p̜̚l̼͉̙̻͇ͯǎ̼͖͎̗̻̘ͩy̯̙̝̯̼̥̙ͩͫ̋s̜̋ͮ͂̉t͉̲̰̠̗̳y͔͕̹̞ͧ́̓̓͊ͅlͤe̠ ̏ͩo̫͇͉f͍̟̩͉̟͇͒͂̑͂̐ ͚̣ͬͭ̓̀̋ͩ̕ŏ̙͍̲̗̥̽f̛̼͕̌̓ͥͣ̚ͅf͐̿́ͮͣe̵̫̙̓͗̅ͩ͋̀̄ņ͕̝͕͇̙͇ͭs͍̹̼̼̗ͨ͒́̏̌͗e͈͇ͥ͋̚,ͧ͊̾ ̯͍͍̻c̺̖̝̫̘͚̦͆a͈̮̪̲̪͕̩͒̒̀̆̋̃m̞̟̻̲͌̀p̤í̟n̮̹̭̪ͣ̍̊̎̈́̾g̈ͭ̃͢,͙̖̏̀̌ ͖̤͛̆͂̿͑̓s̸̹̣̳̞͙̽͌t̮̳̰͕͕̖a̪͔̣͈̝̘̓͒̂g̳̠̟̤̺̞̖ͩͧͣ͐̍ẹ̺̰͑̿̊̄̇͞ ̘̘̟̎ͭ̏̎̿c͖̬͉̗̜o̯͓̺͚̪͓̒ͮ̉ͧ̄͗ͬn̳͉̦̬͕̂ͤ͘ţ̏ͮr̤̗̳̟͙̩̈́ͅo̼͖͖͎̳̐ͪ̉l̘̮̳͎̙͗ͬ͠,̲͇̦̠͇ ̞̦̰͒̾̅̐̿͊ͅa̶̠̺̰̤̩̩̜ͧͧ̐͊͛n̳͂d̲͍̩̫̠̔ͪ̊̈̈͜ ̠͓͕o͒͋̋͞p̛͇̞̞̝ͩͩͬͣͥ̚p̥͎̠͐ͮ͒oͬ͊̅͝n̰͕͎̪͔̭̒̍e̫͓̩̜̳͍͐ͣ͆̇̓n̜̉ͭ͗͊ͨ̉t̢̘̯̃͋͋ ̄͛̒̆̌̚m͔ỏ̼͎̜̹̃̆̈͗̀v̗̥̀̓e͔̅͠m̮̱̺͉̋̐̀̈́ͮ͝ẹ̶̫̮͉̽̓ͫ͆̑̊n͓̑̇t̬̝̜͇̮͍ͬ͑͗̿ͬͤͅ ̷͚̘̪̜̤͎̿c͕ͨ̚ọ̵͂͛ͭ̆n̩̜̜̟̪̦̒tͨ̽ͫ̀r̠͖̱̙̯̠̎̂o̤͉͉̪͎͎͂̊ͣͩ̂͛̅͘ͅl͇̠̯͢.̗͍̠̦̆͊̉̒ͯ ̫̪̻̠̩̗̓̀ͪ̇E̶̥͓̠̙̣̿͊͐̀a̒̑ͦ̚r̼̤͍ͤ̓͂̿ͩť̶̯̻͚͎̩͍̣̀h͓̠̝̠̜ͦͯͨ ̌̇̓ͭͩ͋ͩP͇̭̐ó͙̥̤̭͓̜͢w̟͖̬̣̳̭͂ë̠̱̥͍͔̉͆r̻͍̩͉͟ ̠̯̯̮̠̩̒̏̇̐̓p̻̭̥̥̟̖̆̅̏̎͘i̗͓̺ͤͯl̟̪l̯ͭ̎͐͑̓͐a̯r̥͒s̞͍̑ͮ̓͛̚ ͚̤̲͕͔ͣ́a̬ͮͣ͡r̭̦̙͉̩̻ͨ͡e͈͍͚̼̾̏̊̆́ ̦͚̣͞n̡͍̪̘͔̒i̬̫̮͉̞̝͙̓̊̈ͣ̀c̴̺͚̲͕ͭ́͑̾ͯ̌e̡͕͈̺̹̫̰ͣ,̏̌ͭͬ̈́ͨ͒͏ ̱̤̔j̼̞̮͉̰͒͗̎ͅu͖̮̿͊ͭ̈́̈̚i͗͛ͭc̮̺̖͇͕͑̂ÿ́ͬ̋҉̟̞ ̹̖̋̒̎̊ͣͫ̚ę̦͓̝͒͂ͥ͐̐ͣd͍͓̑ǐ̤̟̼̦̹̃͑t̥̩̱ͪi͋̌ͯ̆̈́͋ŏ̢̳̗̬͌̏̎ͣ̌n͇̥̘̭͐̌̚s̲̩͚̯̖ͧ̌͛̈́ ̛̮̹͑ț̮̺͓̋̋̓̾̓̅ͨ͢o̪̲̰̩ͮͣͩ̃̀ ҉̞̮̰̪͍h̷̳̹̃ͧį̻̬̻̋͗̉͂ͭ̄̎ͅs̑̐̑͜ ̖̫̠̫̗ͣ͆ͫg̗͚̑͛̐͗̀͊ͥa̭̬͙̺̻̟͌ͫͤ̅͐̈́̕m̝̠̭̈́͊͊͐̍͜e̥̗̋͆̋̃̋͞,͎̳͚̪̝͙̥ ̠̗̱̜ͭ̋̍̂ͥͅa͙̞̭̮ş̦̱̖̬̰̉ͧͩ̇ͬ̆ͪ ̹̅ͧͩ̂͑͒ͧh̸̻̤̯͉̼̳̤ͯ̐ͤ̽̏̍̑e͗̈́̅̆̈ͯ ̖̲͔̌͜ha̴͔̳̱̥̬ͪ͌̾͑̾̅͗s̭̭͈̈̐̅͑ͫ̿ͧ ͐̂͊̌͞sͯ͊o̪̻̱̦̻̦ͤͧ̽ͤ̉ ̮̟͟m̢͕̻ͪ̿̐ā̡ͤ̊̋͋̌̾n̹͉̥͎̥͕̔ͦͪ̈ͯ͠ÿ̴͇͇̗́ ̼̙̼͔̻͙̠̓͗̉̃ͩ̓ủ͕̲̮͉͚̑ͭͤ̾ͅs̻̦̱̯͒ͮͪ͑̀e̫̜̖͎̮̩s̤̠͋ͫ̔̒ͫ̚ ̥̼̳ͦ̎̋̇̾̈́͂f̸̦ȏ̘͖ͥ̽ŕ̼͖̞̩̠̭̦ͤͩ͋ͬ̈́͑͞ ̒̎̋̀̈̃̚t͖͇͒ͯͧ̾̍͒̐͟h̞̟̆ͥ͡ẹ̢̘͙̩̖̣̓ͫͥͫ ̭͔̖̪̬̓͂̊ͧ͛̅mͬ̂o͔͐̍v̵̩̿̓̍ͪḛ̭̉͗̂͂̇̿ͧ̕.̬̣̄ ̰̻͈̦͞T̬̗͓̖̼̉ͦ̍ͭh̸͛̃̑e̸̯͕̣͉̞̮̤ͭ̓ͤ́ͦ ̻v̺̓̈́͑͛̽a̞̰͚͔̬̦͆̀r̫͕̦̠͂̿̆ͥ͋i̟̠͖̽͛͂ͦ̆̒́͟o̥̜̮͜u̯̭̾̈̓̈́ͯs̷͓̲̘̝͉̹̠ ͙̩̫̺̥ͫ̈́f̞͕̫͌̉ͦͦ̍̊͡iͦ̃ͮͨͧ͂̂ṙ̶͓̥̣̼͊̽̽͐̀e͎̙̯̘̳͈ͣ̾ͅ ̧̅͌̐ͣͭ͛a̶̠̺͑͌n̺͚͙̘̩̓̃͋̑͑̊͋d̴͕͎̲̣͍͈ͨ̂̉̔ͬ̾̈́ͅ ̮̥̜͎ͦ̊́l̼̦̙̜̤̚ͅͅa̙̬͔͕̻̽͢v̙̂̅̒͛ͯ̀a̗̰͍̳̗͊ͭ̊̄̓ͦ͡ ̧̋͒̑ͣǎ̰͔̙͕̘̺ͯ͠t̃̓͛̑ͨ҉͉̪͓̣̹͉̩t̹̩̊a̛̮ͧ̒́ͭ̚c̮͑ͮ̏ͪk̘̬͗̽͒̈́s҉͓ ̣͙̟̏̈́ͦͧ̂ͯa̦͕̩r̭͕̒̒͡e̯͔͇̱͚͍̠̋͑ ̞̺̦̥͓̘̗͆ͫa̪̍̄̌l͖͍͚̰͍̰͂ͦͤ́s͈̜͌͡o̲̠͇̞͉͇͈̐̾̉́ ͖̣͍̫͙̪ͬ͋͢n̬̫̠̟͉͂̈͂̀i̺͓̥͍͈̙̝͐͊̓͌͒̑̚cͧ̇ͣͯͭ̈̓e̱̙͓͔͉̪͐̏̑̌̐.͙͔̘̐ͯͬͥ͜ͅ ͇̪̲̣̳̊̉ͬͨ̀̂̏ͅŶ͕͚̜͓͍̩ͯ̅̃ͩͅǒ̦ͥ̎ͮͩu̡̱̒r̹̰ͭ̊̉̍͒ͨͪ ͇̫̰̃́̿͑͛̊s̛͓ͭe͚̽͌͆̈́̔͗͜c̰͙͘o͔̞͚͖͙͒ͩ̈́̓ͫ͘n̟̬ͥ͊̍͗̚d͏̳ ̦͔͋͊t̶͕̹̮̠ͅa͙̤͑̆͊ͪk̙̰͓̭̤̭̊ͩ̒ͪͅë͙͈̬ͣ̔̿ͧ͞ ̛̫̹̤̃̅̈́̄̓͆ͨͅo̖̝̱̪͒n̖̻͚͎̻ͧ̉͊̓̾͘ ̧̤̯̜̬̱̎͂M͓̙͙͚̣̙̍ͨ̊ͯ͑ͅa̷̒̑̓̌ḡ̖̹͕̦̺͊̒͐ͥm̧̭͙̲̣̓ͮͧ̋̏̒̋o̫͖̤͖̟̠̻̽͛̓͗̅̏̀r̘̣̖̯̆ͅt̳̓̌̀̌͒͂͒a͇̍ͧ̈́r̴͉͓͔̖͍ͫ̄̾̉̌̀ͫ ͖̦̌̈ͭi͙̠̬̬̲̰s̷͔͉͊̊̀̊ͫ̚ ̭͇͙͓͇̟ͮͥ̎͞a̢̝̝̐̆ͮ̈̀͋ͦ ̩͔̝̦͎v̶̹͕̖̩̼̮͉a̱̹̣sͣ̊t̶̰̣̳̲̤ ̭͙̥̆ì̻͈̭̱ṁ̪͈̙̐ͧͣ̐̓͞p̴̱͔͎͖͕̫͗͂ͯ̅ȓ̛͆̉o̼͓͙̰͙̼̻̔͌̐v̄͆̚é̶̜͙ͩͣ̑m̞̲̺̖̙̱̥̊͟e̱̾͆̔̋͋ͬ̚ń͙ͮ̇t̡͎̮̀ͦ̆̚ ̮̹̬̤̖̆ͬ̄ͫ̊ͨỏ͙͙͇̹v̞͌́ẻ̴͍̱̯̗͂r̟̠͇̖͔̘̰ͣ̅̔ͩ̚̚͠ ̺̞̳̀̈́t̂͛́ͧ͐̀҉̗͈͍̬̠̥͕ḣͭ̓̐̋͏͍̜͓̖ë̖̜̭̤̲̬̼͂ͭ̊̆̇̔ ̻̖̦̣̤͔̂̀̐ͬͣ̈͋f̖̥̜̽i̶̝̪͓̖ͤ̅̒r͙̰̤͌̇̔͡s̠͇͉̭̠̜̰ͣ͋̾͝ť̸͛̿͆ͦ̄̇ ̻̙̞̠͎o̦̱ͣñ̦ͭ̇͒̈́̊̚e̝͈͕͙̣ͬ̄ͤ͋ ҉̲̬͕b̗̭͓̻̹̬̱̃ͭ͑̇͂͡y̰̘͋͝ ̾͑͊̏ͬa̫̮̲ͣ̓̽ͮ̚ ͈̽͆ͮ͒lͪͪͨ͒͠o̲͉͍ͫ̌̓͞ǹ̥͓͇̺ͭͨ͟g̭͍̟̃̍ͮ ̤͔͎̝̰͔ͨ̈́̈̊̈́͟s͕̯͐̔͋̀͆͋̕h̫͚̆o͌̓ͧ̓̚t̞̀ͭ̈́.͌ ̠̦͎̦̖̩̦ͮ̇ͪ̓͒̚Ẉ͈̺͇̦̬̥̇͊ͨ̈̋ͬe̝͚̱̪̱̩̍ͨͨͫ͐̚͜l̷ͣ̾̐̑ͧͨ̽l̹̗̦͈̬͐̂͌̊̇̑̑ ͗̄ͪd̫͓̮͎͇ͣ̌͊͊o̮̗͕͋̽͂͜n͕̫͉͎͈̮̦̿̓̓͘e̯͇̮͊,̠̉̌ ̖̖̦̣̌͆ͨͫͩ̀Ḓ͚̳ͤͦ̏͠ͅM̢̠̳̭̮̲̀͂̆
 

Agi

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
1,120
Location
SE Washington
Magmortar


Could someone please tell me why I've been so reluctant to read sets? I can't believe I've been WILLINGLY passing up gems like this. Magmortar's easily my favorite set this contest, and rightfully so. While the organization is... a bit underwhelming, the meat of all the moves playing in concert paints a beautiful picture that deserves to be hung on any wall. If only the page hadn't been stretched. (wary)

Okay, first things first... that airgame is spectacular. While Smokescreen is a cool enough idea on its own, all the interactions with it make it the highlight of the set. The fire-based attacks shining through the smoke add a layer of mystery as to whether it's a Fire Blast or just Magmortar flying around with his Up Special... couple that with a flare hiding the light of your attacks and Confuse Ray causing the opponent to have no idea what's going on (although... you really wouldn't be able to hit with this easily, since you have no idea where they are until the silhouettes start to show up, but let's just say you can do it for the sake of argument) and you have an excellent way to fight off airborne foes. They don't want to go in the air? Force them to with a Lava Plume. They're content to campcampcamp? Set up a wall with Earth Power and barrage them with Fire Blasts. Eventually, they're going to have to approach Magmortar via the air, which is what I love about the set.

That's not to say the set's ENTIRELY without problems... Flame Body seems fairly irrelevant to the rest of the moveset, and the DAir's interaction with smokescreen seems fairly tacked-on, not that I'm one to criticize tacked-on interactions. The wording was a bit slippery at points, like at the very beginning of Fire Blast, (a ball of fire, a fireball), and the Neutral Air (it took me a second read to realize the spinning fire stays in place), but that's a pretty nitty nitpick. The big problem I have with Magmortar is that by being able to just stand on his lava, he's made practically invincible. I mean, sure they can approach him from the air, but even if he makes absolutely no effort to attack them on their way he can still shield the opponent's attack, and watch them fly into the air as he lays down another layer of Lava Plume. But yeah, that's something that could probably be fixed by having his body reabsorb the lava or something.

Even when the set got down to the throws, which are arguably far less relevant to Magmortar's game, you still managed to have fun with the set. The BThrow, probably the most generic of them all, was still entertaining because of the visual... Magmortar just shoves someone into his cannon, raises his arm and blasts them away, entirely unaffected. Maybe it's just me, but that was hilarious. And of course, the FThrow just made the lava/airgame relevant again. Good show.

EDIT: That comment was ridiculously long and I didn't even notice. Just goes to show how much I liked the set, I suppose. :bee:

 

BKupa666

Barnacled Boss
Moderator
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
7,698
Location
Toxic Tower
MAGMORTAR
Coming from the guy who made Bleak and the Great Mighty Poo, I can appreciate what you've done with Magmortar as much as anyone, if not moreso. To be honest with you, I think you took what made those sets successful and added your own unique flair to it (Bleak had a wall for F-Smash, as well as ice patches to move characters in his chosen direction). GMP expanded on this with his shit holes, while Magmortar has done the same, making the most of a superb aerial game, full of mindgames. The smokescreen reminds me of another well-received set of mine in Stanley; I love how Magmortar's mindgames in the air can be used in tandem with lava for fiery damage. I have to mirror agi and say, although Down Special could come in handy in keeping foes from comboing Magmortar, it seems irrelevant to the set as a whole (similarly to Chucky's similar DSpec, might I add). Anyways, if I had to place Magmortar into MW's Top 10 list of your sets, I'd place him on par with Hariyama, but I don't really see it surpassing the top 3 in contest stardom. I hope to God Magmortar escapes Bleak's fate in the long run. At least your inactivity prevents this as a result of vote split.

First moveset comment while partially drunk?
 

cutter

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,316
Location
Getting drilled by AWPers

In the world of Magic: the Gathering, Jace Beleren is a planeswalker. Planeswalkers are a very few handful of mages that are able to traverse all planes of the Multiverse. They could be on the metallic plane of Mirrodin one day and then be in the plane of perpetual midsummer on Lorwyn the next. Or... they could be in the plane of Smash and decide to enter the brawl!

Curiosity has always gotten the better of Jace Beleren. As a magical prodigy, he delved into lessons of sorcery deeper than the other students in mage academies, and succeeded to the point that even his instructors were suspicious of him. As a specialist in mind magic, he uses his abilities to gaze into the minds of others, discovering even closely guarded secrets. This practice has led him into danger more than once. In fact, his mind magic has helped him discover the existence of planeswalkers and of worlds beyond his own, opening his eyes to an even greater scope of secrets.

Now that Jace's own planeswalker spark has ignited, his curiosity has begun to take him deep into the Blind Eternities, the chaotic void that holds all the planes of the Multiverse. Jace has finally found a milieu vast enough to satisfy his thirst for knowledge.

Jace now faces the same problem of every exceptional being: the temptations of power. His skills in illusion, mind-reading, and even memory modification have flourished during his travels, and they've helped him gain ever broader access to the secrets he craves. But the deeper he delves, the more he encounters individuals and beings who don't want him prying into their business... and who have the power to stop him. Jace has the potential to rival even these adversaries if he's willing to cast aside the limits of his conscience and embrace the power rising within him. The enemy colors of white and black are like an angel and devil on his shoulders. Will he choose to use his abilities to enrich those he cares about, or to empower only himself? However Jace chooses, the realization of his potential will have a dramatic effect on the Multiverse.

Stats

Weight: 7
Height: 8
Ground Speed: 7
Aerial Speed: 5
Fall Speed: 8
First jump: 6
Second jump: 5
Traction: 7
Crouch: 4

Crawl: No
Wall Jump: No
Wall Cling: No
Glide: No


Specials

Neutral Special: Energy Flux



Jace lets out a grunt and quickly fires a blue bolt from his projected hand just under the size of a retracted Beam Sword in a direct horizontal line, traveling at an above-average velocity that has a distance four-fifths the length of Final Destination. If it hits a player, it will let off a small explosion that has very small hitstun and knockback, doing just a meager 6%.

If this attack however hits an opponent that is charging an attack or is carrying a fully-charged move, then the bolt explodes into a sphere of surging blue and white energy with a diameter slightly bigger than a Party Ball that traps the opponent in it, causing continuous damage before the sphere dissipates after about two seconds. The opponent will still be damaged for 6% when the Energy Flux hits, and then will be damaged 2% per “hit” when caught in the energy sphere, dealing a collective 14% (7 “hits” total) and a grand total of 20% for the entire attack if every hit connects. The foe will be constantly dragged into the center, making smash DI to escape possible, but hard unless the correct quarter-stick inputs are made. Knockback at the end is directly downward, slamming the opponent right into the ground (which can be teched). If an opponent is shielding and they are holding a charged attack, Energy Flux will still explode into the multi-hit energy sphere, doing ruinous amounts of shield damage.

What exactly meets the criteria of getting nailed by the more powerful version of Energy Flux? It’s somewhat simple. Any of the following cause Energy Flux’s more powerful version to trigger:
- During the startup of any automatic release attack. These include any smash attack, Ike’s Eruption, and Pikachu’s Skull Bash.
- During the startup of any manual release attack. Examples include Luigi’s Green Missile, Link’s Silver Arrows, and Ike’s Quick Draw.
- When it hits any character carrying a fully charged storage attack. In other words, if Lucario is carrying a fully-charged Aura Sphere or DK is carrying a fully-charged Giant Punch, Energy Flux will trigger. Any character that is carrying a partially-charged storage attack will not be affected by Energy Flux.
- Passive storage attacks that are fully-charged. ROB’s fully charged laser and Wario’s fully charged Wario Waft will trigger Energy Flux. Just like in the previous item though, if they are not fully-charged up, Energy Flux will not affect them.

A few other important notes: Jace can’t fire another Energy Flux until the first one fully ends, and the sphere that results from the stronger version of the attack has transcendental priority.

Side Special: Counterspell



Jace very quickly (I’m talking hits on frame 2 kind of quickly) thrusts out his right hand in the direction he is facing. At that instant, a bluish-white spherical flash will appear and last for a few frames before quickly disappearing. This sphere has a diameter of about one and a half stage blocks and covers most of Jace’s body.

If an opponent is hit by this energy-like sphere, anything they are doing is immediately “countered”. What this means is that the opponent will be immediately forced back into their neutral stance and their previous action will be canceled out. If an opponent is running, they stop right there and get reset into their standing pose. If they’re shielding, they will be immediately forced to unshield and go to their standing pose. Any projectiles or items spawned by an attack or action will instantly vanish as well, and they will trigger Counterspell even if an opponent isn’t making contact. Super armor-based attacks aren’t safe from Counterspell either. They will be countered just the same as any other neutral attack. If an opponent is in the air when they’re countered, they will immediately assume their normal falling animation. Sounds powerful, doesn’t it? There are a few catches though. The first is that this attack does no damage or any knockback. The second is that this is an attack that relies on countering what an opponent just did. To elaborate, if you successfully counter your opponent, a distinct high-frequency sound will be heard. The exact instant something is countered, IASA frames will be active throughout the entire attack, allowing you to immediately cancel out of Counterspell into anything you choose.

On the other hand, if Counterspell whiffs completely, Jace suffers from quite terrible lag lasting nearly a full second, leaving him open to obvious punishment as he attempts to recover himself. While pretty much anything an opponent does can be countered, Counterspell is unable to do anything to invincibility, and the move will miss as if it hit nothing.

Up Special: Illusionary Servant



Jace projects an illusion of himself that is exactly identical to him, but is slightly translucent in order to differentiate from the real Jace. After the illusion is created, the player then assumes control of it and can move it with the control stick. The illusion moves at a moderate speed and can be moved in any which way the player chooses. If the illusion gets hit by an attack, it will flash and start to become distorted, but it will not receive any hitstun. The distortion becomes more and more obvious as the illusion continues to take damage from attacks. After taking 30% worth of damage, the illusion will fall apart and collapse into nothing. The only damage this attack does is just as soon as Jace projects the illusion away from his body, dealing 6% and very small amounts of knockback upward and hitstun. The illusion copy has no attacks can only defend itself by weaving in and out of opposing attacks. Whenever it reaches a ledge, it will automatically sweetspot to the ledge and Jace will immediately teleport to that ledge as the illusion vanishes as a recovery tactic. While Jace is in the air doing this attack, he will fall much slower than normal for as long as the illusion is out.

The illusion can be broken up at any time by releasing the B button. Jace will immediately teleport himself to the place the illusion was last and go into his “helpless” animation. After four seconds, if the illusion hasn’t been manually disengaged, it will do so automatically.

Down Special: Psychic Overload



After a brief moment of tensing up and concentration, Jace conjures up a dark blue bubble-like energy sphere that has the size of being 1.5x the size of a Bob-Omb. The energy sphere immediately locks onto the nearest enemy (if there is no enemy in sight, the attack moves in a straight horizontal path) and tracks them down until it either hits them or the attack dissipates after 2.5 seconds. If this attack successfully connects, the victim is completely stuck in the air, snared inside fetters of telekinetic energy that wrap around everywhere on that person’s body. This attack does not deal damage or knockback. While stuck in this psychic prison, an opponent is completely helpless; they can’t attack, defend, or do anything except mash buttons to break out of the attack. Once a trapped opponent is hit once, the energy tendrils will immediately break apart and the opponent will be set free (they’ll more than likely be in hitstun though). Breaking out after getting caught by Psychic Overload is very similar to breaking out of a grab. Without button mashing, an opponent is helpless for a full three seconds, but that time can be drastically reduced to around .75 seconds with the most efficient and fastest button mashing. This attack has below average startup time, but the startup time is reduced by a respectable margin when this attack is done in the air, as well as Jace’s fall speed being greatly reduced as well. Once Jace generates the initial energy sphere that tracks down a foe, he is free to move around like normal.

Standards

Jab Combo: Hand Pulse

Jace firmly thrusts out his right arm to a distance of Captain Falcon’s jab moderately quickly. A small pulse of light-blue energy pulsates out at a distance of about one-fifth that of a stage block. This first hit deals 5% on any location of the attack and has set knockback, providing just enough hitstun to combo into the second hit of the jab, in which Jace swings out his arm as if he was swatting some sort of invisible fly. With a range of just under Marth’s jab, the second jab hit deals 7% and has very paltry knockback of sending the opponent very horizontally and very slightly above, away from Jace. There is a small bit of lag after the second jab, but it’s small enough to keep this attack generally safe on block.

Forward Tilt: Arcane Swipe

Jace does an extremely quick swipe forward with his right arm and while doing so, an arc of blue energy emanates at the tip of his fingers and swings with his hand at a maximum distance of Marth’s forward tilt. The energy hitbox is the sweetspot of the attack and deals 14%, knocking the opponent very forcibly away from Jace at a slight downward angle. If an opponent is hit by Jace’s hand that isn’t part of the energy hitbox, then it deals just 7% and has knockback that sends the opponent at a steeper angle with respect to the ground and does not send them as far of a distance as the sweetspot portion. Either way, Jace still has to retract his arm back which opens him up to punishment if this move is carelessly thrown out.

Up Tilt: Cascade Burst

Jace raises both of his hands upward, releasing a surge of dark-blue energy that travels a height of two stage blocks before completely dissipating, and with a width of just under a stage block. This is a fairly long-duration attack that quickly loses its power the moment it leaves Jace’s hands during the immediate opening frames. Three hitboxes are present in the attack; the first one is right at the beginning just as the energy is separating from Jace. It deals 14% and knocks the opponent back at very high and steep angle, which KOs off the top starting at around 130%. The second hitbox is during the middle of the attack, dealing 7% and has considerably less knockback than the first hit, but it still launches at the same angle. The third hit occurs during the ending of the attack as it dissipates, dealing 5% and slightly weaker knockback but has very minimal hitstun to it. This attack overall has next to no lag after it finishes, but Jace is stuck while this tilt is going. If your opponent isn’t right above you, you can expect to be easily punished.

Down Tilt: Cryptic Helix

Assuming a kneeling position, Jace clasps his hands together and grunts audibly, generating two blue energy waves that quickly corkscrew around each other upward to a height of around one and a half stage blocks. The attack has a width of just under a stage block and it covers a rough conic section just in front and diagonally above Jace. There are two hitboxes to this attack; the first one deals 13%, launches the opponent directly upward, and it starts to KO at 125%. The second one comes out as the energy waves spiral up to the top and deals 6%. It also launches the opponent at the same angle, but the knockback is much weaker. There is a small bit of lag after the attack after the energy waves disappear and Jace regains himself back to his crouching position or standing position.

Dash Attack: Sorcerer’s Shuffle

While in his running stance, Jace stretches out his right foot and drags his heel into the ground. As he does so, a build-up of white and blue energy sparks up from underneath as Jace slides across the ground this way at a distance of one and a quarter Mario dash attacks. Anywhere on the attack, including the sparks that are generated from the attack, will deal 7% and create a very high chance of tripping the opponent at low to moderate percents; at higher percent (>65%) they will be directly slammed into the ground with a chance to tech. This dash attack executes quite fast and it has a lingering hitbox due to the energy, but since Jace slides quite decent distance before the attack ends with just below average lag, he can be caught for an easy shieldgrab.

Smashes

Forward Smash: Drake Umbra



A bluish-white silhouette forms all around Jace, from which the head of a drake is projected, extending forward the distance of just over Marth’s forward smash. With its mouth open, the drake quickly bites down after just under a half-second upon the startup of the attack, dealing a respectable 18% and knocking the opponent very hard at a 30-degree angle with respect to the ground. This smash KOs starting at 120% for medium-weight characters. The crunching of the teeth (the hitbox of the attack) covers a horizontal line all the way from the maximum range of the attack to just outside of Jace’s body. The cooldown of the attack is fairly minimal as the entire umbra dissipates very quickly; the majority of the lag comes at the startup when the drake forms, opens its mouth, and snaps its jaws in one full motion.

Up Smash: Mist Summon



*Cutter's note: I apologize for this image being so vertically tall. I tried my best to resize it from its initial resolution without screwing up the image too bad.*

Jace points his arms upward and summons a towering, mist-based creature with a height of 2.5 stage blocks. As the creature ascends upward, anyone caught in it will take constant 3% hits and pulled inside of the attack and up even higher until it reaches the 2.5 stage block apex. The misty illusion then vanishes quite violently; as it does so, the final hitbox of the attack deals 6% and sends anyone directly upward, KOing at 130% off the top. Small hitboxes are also present at the beginning of the attack when Jace clasps his hands upward to create the creature, dealing 2% and having a vacuum-like effect to pull anyone into the attack as he’s summoning the creature.

Down Smash: Psychic Spikes

Jace closes his eyes, lowers his head, and mentally conjures a set of spike-like tendrils that pop out of the ground in front and behind him extending to a length of Game & Watch’s down smash. They reach up to a height of roughly the size of right-side up Item Capsule and have a short duration before dissipating. Skewered opponents will be dealt 16% and slammed directly downward before bouncing up from the knockback of the attack. This attack usually will not KO at all due to the opponent absorbing most of the knockback when slammed into the ground, but it can spike those who are right on the edge or if they’re on the clouds in Skyworld. This attack can be teched when timed correctly, but the end lag on this smash is small enough that Jace will remain safe after their techroll finishes.

Aerials

Neutral Aerial: Dual Mysticism

Jace extends his legs and does two kicks in a row at a diagonal angle upward. Both kicks at their apex release a small burst of blue energy that only serves to extend the reach of the attack. The range itself is just below the range of Captain Falcon’s neutral aerial in terms of raw distance. Both kicks are done quick enough that they can combo into each other, and they both deal 8%. The second kick is virtually identical to the first one, but it contains all the knockback of the move, sending an opponent at a 60-degree angle up and away from Jace with respect to the ground. This move autocancels upon its finish, but there is moderate landing lag if Jace lands before the attack fully finishes.

Forward Aerial: Flash Palm

Jace projects his open hands outward in a downward 45-degree angle, creating a pulse of deep-blue energy that flashes for just under a quarter of a second. The energy pulse has a diameter of about three-fourths of a stage block, dealing 12% and knocking the opponent at an exact 45-degree angle upward away from Jace. The attack hits somewhat directly horizonally, but the vast majority of the hitbox is in the diagonally downward direction of Jace’s palms. The attack has just above-average startup time and there is little landing lag on any part of it. It should also be noted that this attack has above average shieldstun, but does slightly below average shield damage.

Back Aerial: Lunar Trace

Jace cranes his head back and slowly moves his arm in a horizontal semi-circle fashion, creating a stream of his ubiquitous bluish energy that extends out the distance of the end of Olimar’s back aerial. The attack hits multiple times at 1% for a grand total of 17%, which the last hit at the end deals 4% and all the knockback of the attack, sending the opponent in a direct horizontal path away from Jace. This attack’s hitbox lingers, and it continues to pull the foe into the next hit as Jace traces his semi-circle shape. The aerial autocancels upon landing when it finishes, and Jace suffers moderate landing lag if he hits the ground prematurely.

Up Aerial: Azure Swipe

With his arms pointing directly upward, Jace swiftly swipes the air while pulling his arms away from each other. As this happens, a light-blue flame materializes from where his arms started and rises a small distance of half a stage block before very quickly vanishing. This small, low priority hitbox actually packs quite a punch, dealing 15% and knocking the opponent high at an 80-degree angle with respect to the ground, starting to KO at around 115%. Jace has very little landing lag when he hits the ground no matter when he lands during the attack, but the attack itself has a lot of cooldown on the order of about 4/5ths of a second before Jace can do another input of some kind in the air.

Down Aerial: Arcane Array

Jace bends far downward at a steep angle to the ground (about 75 degrees) and projects his arms outward to fire four different bursts of dark blue energy that have total reach the size extending to a range of a stage builder block below Jace’s palms. The bursts are concentrated in a square-like pattern, and no matter where the opponent is hit, they will hit for 12% and sent directly downward at a slow velocity. The velocity at which the opponent is launched downward is slow enough to where if they are in hitstun, they can’t tech. This works on the same principle for why Ganon’s side special can’t be teched. This is a short-duration attack, and Jace experiences little landing lag even when he hits the ground during this aerial.

Grabs / Throws

Grab animation

Jace reaches out with his hand with Wario’s grab range before quickly retracting it. This is a normal six-frame grab with the same amount of end lag for all versions of Jace’s grab (standing, dash, and pivot). His dash grab is nothing to write home about; with a range of about three-fourths that of his standing grab. However, Jace’s pivot grab is very large, covering a length of just under a stage block.

Pummel: Mental Block

With a small magic tether ensnaring his grabbed target, Jace clenches his left fist and tightens it, mentally crushing his opponent’s mind. This pummel causes 3% at the rate of Jigglypuff’s pummel.

Forward throw: Adamant Thrust

Jace gives a bit of a heave, psychically launching his opponent in a straight horizontal path a length of two stage blocks, dealing 8%. This throw has extremely poor knockback growth; it won’t even come close to KOing at 999%.

Back throw: False Assist

Jace creates an illusion of himself in front of him. The illusion does a backflip kick that launches the thrown opponent away from the real Jace backwards at a 45-degree angle. Knockback is moderate, with this throw dealing just 9%.

Up throw: Rune Splice

Jace mentally launches his foe into the air a height of 1.5 Gandondorfs and unleashes a torrent of bright-white rune-like symbols upward. This is a multihit throw, dealing 1% per “hit” for a total of 8 hits total for 8%. Like the forward throw, this throw also has poor knockback growth, which basically reduces it to putting Jace in an advantageous position against characters that are poor when launched into the air.

Down throw: Psychic Faceplant

Jace uses telekinesis once again, except this time he slams his opponent directly into the ground for 7%. This throw can be teched by the opponent, but Jace will be able to move the instant this throw deals damage, which is just before the opponent gets sent into the ground and has to tech, and this throw has a very fast animation overall.

Final Smash: Mind Control



After grabbing a Smash Ball and pressing the B button, Jace will mutter some arcane babble as the camera focuses in on him as he conjures a small blue spark that quickly homes in on the nearest opponent. If it successfully connects, the opponent will have the blue spark placed over their head as an exact blue spark appears above Jace. Anyone hit by this Final Smash will be subjected to total control by Jace. You as the player will now fully control your opponent as if you were the one playing him. Jace himself will be fully invincible until the Final Smash wears off. The victim will be brainwashed for a full six seconds before the spell wears off and your opponent assumes control of their character again. Feel free to do whatever you wish to a Mind Controlled opponent; commit suicide by sending them off the stage, break their own shield, beat up that player’s teammate, or run them into stage hazards. All of this hinges on the spark hitting the opponent though. The homing on the Final Smash helps to guide the attack somewhat, but it’s not guaranteed to lock on. The spark will eventually vanish after a few seconds if it doesn’t hit anyone.

Playstyle: Mind Reader

A mind mage is going to know what his opponent is thinking and what they’ll do, and that is essentially how Jace works when a player utilizes him! Jace is a reactive character by design. With his cold, calculating nature, he has the tools at his disposal to answer almost anything an opponent throws at him when read correctly. Starting with his bread and butter special Counterspell, Jace can immediately stuff the vast majority of actions an opponent might try on him. A person who picks up Jace as a character will very quickly understand that a lot of the damage that Jace deals comes from reading and reacting to your opponent accordingly. Jace does have some offense and approach with his forward and down aerials, but don’t be expecting to have extreme rushdown capabilities at all. Jace has a bit of a high-risk, high-reward element to him in some of his attacks, but it generally is not as profound as it is with many heavyweights and their slow-starting, high-damaging attacks. For instance, Psychic Overload generally leaves Jace same for the most part if it whiffs as long it isn’t just foolishly thrown out. A fair number of characters can punish Jace’s Psychic Overload attempts if they are telegraphed, which is especially compounded by the startup time associated with attack. It’s especially effective against rolling and sidestep spammers who fear Counterspell, as the Psychic Overload sphere waits for them to come out of their invincibility frames and scoop them up for a retaliatory strike. A good mixup of both Counterspell and Psychic Overload serves as a great compliment to help have the options necessary to stuff an opponent’s action. All that’s left is making the correct read and reacting with the appropriate attack.

Jace has many attacks that slam the opponent into the ground and create techchase scenarios; mainly in his down throw, neutral special, down air, down smash, and dash attack. If you’re good at techchasing, then Jace is a character that is right up your alley. Since his dash attack has a very high chance of inducing tripping up to moderate percents, Jace can read a roll with a dash attack and then reset his opponent into another techchase. Jace’s above average grab range and his amazing pivot grab also reinforce his techchase game to continually make sure that you are able to capitalize on your opponent when you make the correct read on them. Many techchases that characters have rely on situational attacks to connect or some other roundabout maneuver. With Jace, starting a techchase is as easy as shieldgrabbing or pivot grabbing an opponent into a down throw. With a few different ways to continue techchases or to end them with effective finishers, Jace can potentially deal an alarmingly high amount of damage and lay waste to almost anyone. Conversely, if you can’t make the reads and continue Jace’s techchase combos, it will take a painfully long time for a player to land an eventual KO, let alone rack up damage. As you might expect, Jace has the potential to dominate on stages that have small platforms, which cut down area for an opponent to roll away from techchases.

Energy Flux is a special that really deserves its own paragraph, as it also fits into the mold of “read and react” with Jace, but in a different manner. The normal version of Energy Flux just doesn’t pack a good enough punch when compared to the more powerful version that punishes those charging/charged attacks. With its quick startup time and fast velocity, you can use it as a punishing tool when an opponent has some sort of charge attack they have at the moment. The special will then knock your opponent right into the ground, which then causes another techchase opportunity for Jace to read and react upon. Opponents will be fully aware of the devastation that Energy Flux can cause, and they can adapt to it, but that means the potential of taking away one of their best KO moves. They could also take a gamble and keep a fully charged move at their disposal to preserve one of their effective damage dealing/KOing tools, but this plays right into Jace’s techchase games.

Unlike some characters, Jace’s tilts are quite strong, and they help reinforce the backbone of his reactive playstyle along with Counterspell and techchasing. All three tilts are high priority, disjointed hitboxes that can pack quite a punch, rivaling many other attacks in terms of range. They also double as situational KO moves when they’re fresh. The Up tilt is your premiere anti-air attack, while both the forward and down tilt serve their purpose at forcefully answering many horizontally-based approaches. In general, Jace’s tilts are simply fantastic at shutting down sloppy approaches, but again, they aren’t attacks you can just throw out blindly. All the tilts have certain gaps in their hitboxes they don’t cover and they all have some cooldown time at the end. The forward tilt is especially excellent as a GTFO attack due to its sharp knockback, very quick startup, and very high priority, but you still need to be able to really read your opponent to know you can get a forward tilt in on them, or at least a safe poke. Both the down and up tilts are launcher-based moves, giving Jace a bit of a different dimension to his playstyle other than just techchasing opponents all day long. He can throw out a few random air combos at low percentages when he fastfalls his already-fast fall rate, but his mediocre jumps keep him from being someone that can raid the air with combos galore. He has a few basic combos based on his forward/up tilts and aerials, especially with the down aerial being able to send someone into the ground to start up a techchase. The choice to mix it up with a different attack that doesn’t result in techchasing is there when needed to keep an opponent honest.

Jace has the power and the kill moves at his disposal; it’s mainly a matter of finding a set up, trap, punishment opening, or a techchase to land one of them for a solid kill. Jace won’t be doing too much edgeguarding due to his mediocre jumps, above-average fall speed, and a recovery that isn’t exactly something to write home about. Energy Flux can be a surprise edgeguard tool due to its knockback during the more powerful version to send someone straight downward to their doom, but as it relies on someone charging up an attack, it is very situational.

Ultimately, Jace is a character that requires a lot of effort from the player to maximize the vast majority of tools he has at his disposal. Read and react is the name of the game for Jace, and as such he fits best for intermediate to advanced players.

Sample Matchups

Vs. Meta Knight: advantage Meta Knight

Meta Knight has the speed and range needed to compete and outsmart Jace at his own game. His safe approaches in Dair camping, Ftilt/Dtilt poking make it tough for Jace to be able to react with an appropriate countermeasure. Being able to Counterspell an incoming Mach Tornado can be a saving grace for Jace when MK is really laying down the pressure in a safe, yet aggressive manner. The risk/reward for Counterspelling MK’s other attacks usually isn’t worth it however. His sheer attack speed and mixup game can cause Jace to whiff on a Counterspell and lead into easy punishment for MK. Things get disastrous offstage. Jace has few options to keep a smart, aggressive MK that is edgeguarding. The illusion can be easily disposed with two double-hit Nairs, as well as a Tornado or Shuttle Loop to finish it off. To ameliorate the matchup, Jace needs to stay in the center of the stage to reduce edgeguarding danger and stay on top of his techchasing game coupled with his tilts.

Vs. B.B. Hood: advantage Jace

B.B. Hood’s projectile pressure game is top of the line, and you can expect to be seeing a large number of missiles, land mines, and Uzi spray coming at you. As B.B. Hood is one aggressive, psychotic *****, you will have many opportunities to Counterspell projectile onslaughts, setting up for some frame traps that successful Counterspells will provide. Aside from the military-grade arsenal of Red’s, her range pales in comparison to Jace’s own disjointed attacks, especially in the tilts. Forward tilt stops so many of B.B. Hood’s approaches cold; it can outprioritize her Uzi often (don’t try to swat away missiles and land mines; you’ll just get blown up) and it stuffs many of her other normal attacks. B.B. Hood’s below average weight also means that Jace doesn’t have to land as many hits and rack up as much damage from techchases, leading to trading hits generally in favor of Jace. The more focused and tight the stage is in this matchup, the better for Jace, and vice versa.

Extras

Costumes

In addition to the default costume as seen in the title of this moveset, there is a bright blue cloak, a dark green cloak, and a white cloak. There are also variants of these costumes with Jace’s head of the cloak up, concealing his face during the fight.

Side taunt

Jace creates an illusion of himself right next to him. He and the illusion do a high-five before the illusion vanishes.

Up taunt

Jace arcs his arms in the air, creating some rune symbols around them. They seem to spell out “JACE” in a very cryptic font.

Down taunt

Jace uses his power to levitate himself off the ground just a little bit, but it quickly wears off and falls back onto the ground. He shakes his head a bit showing he is practicing on trying to fly.

Winning Pose 1

Hundreds of Jace illusions fill the screen as they all quickly vanish one by one. Jace lets out a very rare smile as he poses in front of the camera.

Winning Pose 2

Jace poses to the camera in a profile stance, arms folded. He looks in a solemn matter before turning his head away from the camera as his cape billows somewhat in the process.

Winning Pose 3

Jace looks directly at the camera and says, “Hey, it’s pretty easy when I know exactly what you’ll be doing!”

Losing Pose

Jace simply looks directly away from the camera while standing. You can see a movement of his arms as he is silently clapping to himself, but he makes pretty much no other acknowledgment to the winner.

Entrance

Blue mist starts to conglomerate and form a human figure. As the mist becomes denser, the figure outline eventually turns into Jace as he looks outward to the camera and falls onto the ground in his fighting stance.

Kirby hat

Kirby gets the same markings as Jace does over his face as well as the head of his cloak. Kirby’s version of Energy Flux is exactly identical to Jace’s except for the damage it deals. The initial hit from the first bolt of the attack deals just 4% instead of 6% from Jace’s.

Snake codec

Snake: Colonel, I can’t believe it. I’m actually fighting a wizard!
Colonel: Not exactly, Snake. Jace Beleren is a special breed of wizard called a planeswalker. He has the power to teleport throughout the universe, anytime, anywhere. As a result, he is easily able to bridge across from his world into ours.
S: Well, at least you gave me the bad news right away.
C: Unfortunately, that’s only scratching the surface. Jace can read others minds, modify them as he wishes, utilize telekinesis, generate electromagnetic energy fields, and create decoys of himself. His overall intelligence is absolutely impeccable.
S: You mean he might be butting into our conversation right now?!
C: Possibly. He’s not invincible though Snake. Just be sure not to attack him predictably. You’ve got nothing to lose if you fight him head-on, as his mind-based powers put a serious dampening on stealthy approaches.
S: Let’s just hope that technology still has its advantages over this silly medieval-like fantasy junk...

*end codec*

FIN

There should be someone out there who plays MTG :).
 

Agi

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
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Location
SE Washington
JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR BELEREN

If someone would make my brother shut up about this card I'd have to bake them a batch of cookies. Anyway, this is your... third set I believe, after BB Hood and Master Chief... although Master Chief is so old that he's not much of a reflection on your abilities.

So, how was Jace? Well, from a quick readthrough it's obvious that you know a heck of a lot more about Smash mechanics than I do. Tech chasing, IASA frames, pivot grabs... most of this stuff is a bit above what I (or even most MYMers... besides maybe Joe) will even think about when making a set... and it comes across as quite a handful. For example, on the grab, you probably could've just ended by comparing it to Wario's... the more you can say with less, the better. The same goes for several of his attacks, especially the FTilt. How is it different from a magicky version of Marth's FTilt, exactly?

Now, the set isn't without its good qualities. The specials were quite solid, and play into Jace's mind-control abilities. The Up Special could've used you saying that the copy could hover in midair, because otherwise people will assume that it controls just like a regular Jace sans attacking abilities. I do like how you can teleport to it after you've moved it around... I just wish that the teleporting flowed with the rest of the set.

Overall, I wasn't very fond of Jace outside of the specials. I felt like I'd already seen virtually every attack in some form or another, whether in Brawl or a fairly early MYM set. I'd recommend that you spend a bit less time talking about each move's properties such as attacking frames and a bit more time talking about how you should use the move in concert with other attacks. Even the Extras didn't quite mesh with me... from what little I've learned of Jace, he doesn't seem the high-fiving type, especially when you're so quick to use the phrase "a rare smile" soon afterwards. But that's just one man's opinion.​

Also, Zook, would you mind unquoting Khold's post? It's stretching the page for those of us who can't see the message. :dizzy:
EDIT: Thankees.
 

Kholdstare

Yeah we gay, keep scrollin'.
Premium
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,392
ZOMG MAGIC THE GATHERING MOVESET <3 <3 <3

Now that's I'm through nerdgasming, I'll have to say I like the set. You capture the art of Blue quite well: countering, predicting, and control. For those of you who don't know, there are five colors of cards in Magic with distinguishing traits. Blue is the thinking color. Generally speaking the philosophy of this color is knowledge, cold hard knowledge. It's the most calculating of the colors, and was considered the most powerful of the colors in the past.

I love pretty much all of Jace's specials, especially Energy Flux. Counterspell is a nicely implemented version of the card, although I would have had it just counter attacks. And Jace would personally be fun to play as.

So that's my two cents. Great job, cutter.

By the way, what is your color/strategy of choice in Magic? I've got a Green/Red deck that's modified from Brute Force, and also a Blue/Red modified Izzet deck which I posted here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7840202&postcount=110
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
1,810
For those few who don't know (Katapultar and Luffy, let's say - and thank you very much to the latter for criticizing me for getting attacked by Warlordian rants on the Stadium), I've been on vacation for the last three weeks. I once said that if I ever disappeared without warning, you should all very literally assume that I've died, and I stand by that, morbid or not!

So welcome to all newcomers - Kojow-Jebi, MYM'r (sort of), and so on - and welcome back, cutter (or was that before I left? I suppose it was) - and I'll be trying to do some catch-up, set by set, starting with Hannibal Bean, a very tough read.

It's a messy set, of course, with none of Dark Bowser's or Sloth's or Dingodile's polish and elegance of conception; that's what makes them work better than most of your sets, the relative streamlinedness of their gameplay and their presentation. On the other hand, the messy approach has worked before, with just The Count and Huff N. Puff to name two, incredibly dense sets that sometimes take more than one read to really follow and get a grasp on.

Maybe it doesn't help that I don't know anything about Xiaolin Showdown, but outside of a few little touches and the strange lack of character here, it doesn't really hurt - the playstyle still comes across loud and clear, and it's another one in your recent series of dizzyingly creative unSmash-is-good projects. Nobody does them quite like you and they're really bold experiments in pushing the reader to their limits - you go beyond the explored boundaries and make the reader nod his head and go right along with you.

The thing I most like here is that the Bean is literally a momentum character, and how strangely feasible you made bouncing around the stage as a strategy sound - his body is the weapon here, and it works better than I would have expected. Every time you think there's no design space out there except that which can be retread, you find something that feels entirely fresh. It's very weird.
 

Monkey D. AWESOME

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
143
Location
Coming to terms with having two people in my mind
Yeah, the way most of the veterans approach MYM nowadays is borderline vindictive. But I'd like to attribute this to our changing climate as a community. Things are very different to the way they were in MYM7, and when you're running the show, a change like that comes as a big shock. I hope you don't hold these temporary transgressions against them, as like everyone else, the leaders are only human, and every now and then, they need to rant.
You know what? You're right. I'm sorry. I didn't really think about what I was saying (or typing, I guess), and I just blamed the leaders. Being a leader of anything is hard, and if I was in MW's position, I'd probably be ranting just like he was. And it wasn't fair that I was getting mad at Rool when the main thing that set me off was Warlord's rant.

So in closing, I'm really sorry. I just need to understand that everyone has an opinion, and that the leaders are humans, too.
 

Agi

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
1,120
Location
SE Washington
You know what? You're right. I'm sorry. I didn't really think about what I was saying (or typing, I guess), and I just blamed the leaders. Being a leader of anything is hard, and if I was in MW's position, I'd probably be ranting just like he was. And it wasn't fair that I was getting mad at Rool when the main thing that set me off was Warlord's rant.

So in closing, I'm really sorry. I just need to understand that everyone has an opinion, and that the leaders are humans, too.
Y'know, the funny thing about this is that neither KRool nor Junahu are leaders anymore. Anyway, nice to have you back, Rool.
 
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
519
Location
Holy keys locked in the jet, Batman!

A New Challenge Approaches!

Well, everyone knows this by now, but MYM8 just hasnt had quite as much activity as we would have liked. We have just barely gotten 50 sets in 4 months, and we need a bit over 100 by whenever we end this thing. So, with the consent of others involved, Id like to inform everyone of a little idea.

Everyone involved will claim a character from the Street Fighter or Tekken series and make a set for them as fast as they can without making it rushed. Were not asking for one-day sets, but having them all within the same time frame and having matchups with characters of the opposite side would be preferable.

If youre in, come and tell us in the chat or something. You could also mention what youre doing in a post, but dont spam by wasting a post just to say who youre making.

This isnt some mandatory thing, so go ahead and not join if you wish so you can make other sets. Were doing this for lulz and activity.​
 
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
962
Location
The Make Your Move Rooligan Society
Jace
MTG Character = Awesome. I believe this is the first set ever for the franchise. Anyway, I don't really know much about the TCG (though I have heard of Planeswalkers), though I do play Yugioh - Jace appears to have a lot of promise to him; despite never having commented B.B Hood, I still read her. I should be the first to say that I think that Jace ranks as your bestest set so far, but B.B Hood is still a cool set.

Let's see, this set is very much FUN in my books. Those Specials are super sexy awesome like Khold said. His Neutral Specials works surprisingly well in terms of his Mind Reader alias, as does Counterspell, which looks a wee bit overpowered if it wasn't for it's range. Enemies would literally have to aerial approach Jace methinks. It's a shame Jace's other Specials couldn't live up to those Standards . .BUUUUUUUUT, Im not here to criticise you over the simplicity of his Standard moves. You can do whatever you want. Those Extras are pretty awesome as well, but we'll get to them later.

It's also EDUCATIONAL, this set, none the less. Perhaps there wasn't a whole heap of information regarding connection to the card game, but there was a very good deal of info to be shown about the character himself, Jace. It is very interesting, especially when you placed his personality at the start of the playstyle, it is interesting effect to state his character to such. It's funny though how Jace appears is a Planeswalker; this guy who you, the player of the game is with command over legions of monsters and what-so-not, yet his D-Taunt and Last Victory Pose make him seem noobish in a way. I guess he is a child in a way.

So yeah, Jace is like, FUN AND EDUCATIONAL.



EDIT: Street Fighter/Tekken movement thingy looks like fun. I don't own any of the games, at the most have played Tekken 6 at friends place. IF I did a character, it would have to be Bob from Tekken 6 because he is awesome. But then again somebody like Roger Roo/Roger Jr sounds like even more fun, as he is a Kangaroo. I'll say more in the chat, though if I was in, I'd do Roger Roo.
 
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
1,954
Location
The Cosmos Beneath Rosalina's Skirt
One day set ahoy; started this at 1:00 last night xD

I AM...ABOMINATION​



BACKSTORY


Q is Q. That’s all you really need to know. It’s also all that’s really known about him other than that he’s one of the playable characters in Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike. Nobody even knows for sure if Q is human or not. Q rarely speaks; his victory quotes consist entirely of ellipses, “No,” “Why?” and “I am…abomination.” His fighting style consists mainly of sloppy, brawler-esque moves. Q has always and probably will always be a mysterious character…

STATS

Weight: 9
Size: 9
Traction: 8
Falling Speed: 7
Aerial Movement: 5
Jumps: 4
Movement: 2

Q is a huge guy (robot?). In canon, he weighs 340lbs and is 7’5”. Soooo….needless to say, Q is both a really big target and a really heavy one. Q is also fairly slow. Well…not so much slow as he is unique. Instead of dashing like most characters, when the dash input is performed, Q will bound forward about a Battlefield platform length. This has some advantages over a normal dash; for example, the bound forward is incredibly quick an erratic making it highly unpredictable considering it doesn’t have the “warm-up” of typical dashes. However…repeatedly “dashing” makes approaches fairly predictable, contrary to the sudden bursts of speed and surprise using it sparingly gives.


SPECIALS


Down Special: Total Destruction
Q clutches at his head as a distinctly non-Q voice says “Danger.” Q will then begin glowing an orange color. After this, nothing really noticeable happens. Q can still do any move in his arsenal and he has no stat changes or anything. Pressing Down Special again will cause Q to clutch his face and stagger slightly taking about a second and a half’s worth of stun time…but he’ll stop glowing orange at least, pretty cool huh?

Alright, enough beating around the bush. Once you press this input and the moment you hear the voice say “Danger” Q becomes a living, ticking time bomb. You now have an invisible timer on you (which is the same as the Brawl timer so thankfully you can keep track pretty easily) that will tick down from fifteen to zero. Once you’ve reached five seconds, Q’s orange tint will start flickering slightly and once you’re at two, it’ll be flashing like crazy. Once the timer reaches zero, Q will hunch over slightly and instantly explode. This causes 45% damage to Q with medium knockback and 50% damage and knockback that KO’s at 80% for anyone within a Sing radius of Q when he explodes. Needless to say this is a high risk high reward move. You’re dealing a massive chunk of damage to the foe and probably KO’ing them…but you’re also dealing a massive chunk of damage to yourself and potentially killing yourself in the blast. Also keep in mind that Q is quite slow so keeping up with faster foes may be quite difficult at times. If you’re about to explode and there’s nobody within range, consider the risks of both sides. 45% damage to yourself is nasty for sure…but the lag of canceling the explosion could be even more nasty depending upon your foe…

Neutral Special: Soul Crusher
Oh yes! Q will hit you where it hurts; you’re pride! Striking an intimidating pose, Q let’s out an inhuman sound and glows yellow briefly. This entire animation lasts about as long as a Warlock Punch…so it’s not short. In addition to this, a red letter K will appear under Q’s % and name. Other than that, nothing really else will appear to happen. Do however stop and think what game Q appeared in…3rd Strike (K’s are symbols for strikes in case you didn’t know – Strike Man). Kinda make sense now? Good! So…upon using this move three times and ultimately accumulating three strikes…the screen will shake slightly as Q begins to sparkle. You’ll then notice that his damage percentage will be reduced by 45%.

For those curious, yes this is a canon ability. In 3rd Strike, taunting three times with Q increased his HP meter to double that of Akuma’s giving him the highest HP in the game. Anyway, back to Smash. This is obviously the wisest thing to attempt as much as possible, especially if you’re abusing Total Destruction with its self-damaging nature. You’re going to need to be healing yourself to keep from blowing yourself off the stage.

The most vital thing you need to know however with this move; you don’t need to do it three times in a row in order to get the healing effect of it. You could do it quickly twice in a row and then wait to use the third one for the healing. The strike symbols will not disappear unless Q is KO’d meaning that you can and SHOULD save them for when you need to heal most vitally. However…keep in mind that Q is very, very vulnerable to attack while he’s taunting meaning that you want the opponent out of your hair before you attempt this; getting attacked during the taunt will cancel it out.

And there's an image of the taunt.

Side Special: Dashing Head Attack
Q takes a few shaky steps forward before dashing forward at an amazing speed totally unlike that of his normal “dash.” Q will travel forward 1/3rd of Final Destination at about the speed of Fox’s dash attack before striking out with an attack of his own! But there’s more to this move than one would see at first…like Marth’s Side Special, the Q player can tilt the control stick diagonally up or diagonally down (or just straight left or right!) to change the way the actual attack bit comes out! Unlike Marth’s Side Special however, changing it up will depend much more on the situation than wanting to see different colors.

If you hold straight to the right/left when using this move, Q delivers a straight Falcon Punch-esque body blow after the dash. This move is pretty straight up and self-explanatory really but that doesn’t mean it’s useless. First off, it’s easily the fastest of the three that Q can throw out. Second of all, it deals a solid 10% upon connection and thirdly, once the foe is hit with this move, they’ll rocket backwards from the sheer force of it. Yes, this causes a weird little knockback deal…instead of causing straight up knockback, it causes set knockback that will cause the opponent to slide across the stage for a total distance of ½ of Final Destination (they’ll grab the ledge if they were to fall off however). This serves a fairly obvious purpose; use this time to taunt it up so you don’t have to worry about opponents interrupting you.

If you hold diagonally up while using this move, Q will uppercut the opponent into the air instead of a straight punch. This deals 8% and weak upward knockback but suffers from almost no end lag whatsoever. This makes it a great approach (if you want to flub the punch on purpose then grab them afterwards) as well as a great lead in to Q’s aerial game…I mean, the opponent will be airborne after all…chase them!

Finally, if you hold diagonally down while using this move, Q will launch a low sweeping punch at the opponent’s legs. If this connects, it will deal 7% and instantly trip the foe. Unfortunately, this also has the longest end lag of the three punches…but you can always spot dodge their rising attack and grab them…or maybe predict their roll and “dash” to where they will be?

And yeah, that’s just the name of the move in 3rd Strike even though he doesn’t use his head…weird.

Up Special: Human Ladder
Unfortunately for Q, he doesn’t have any jet boosters or Inspector Gadget style head-helicopter. What he does have however is raw strength…a lot of it. He also has mindgames to spare. Unlike most heavyweights who would be easy edgehog fodder…Q will get an easy KO on you for that. Q’s recovery as is is really nothing more than a slightly less powerful (in terms of height) version of Captain Falcon’s Up Special. If used against an airborne opponent, Q will grasp them firmly and begin scrambling up the full length of their body before foot-stool jumping off their head! This only does about 3% however and is of questionable use…

If used against an opponent on the ledge however…Q will begin climbing up the foe dealing 5% as he climbs. Once he has climbed back onto the stage, Q turns to the foe and boots them in the face dealing 8% and a massive downward spike equal to that of Ganondorf’s dair. This is almost a certain KO against characters with poor recoveries…so just keep in mind; if you’re going to attempt to gimp Q, do it offstage, edgehogging will lead to an easy KO for Q.


GRABS AND THROWS

Grab: Q does a broad sweeping grab with fairly impressive range for a non-tether attempting to grab the foe by their throat. It’s moderately slow though and kind of laggy if missed…but fortunately it’s not anywhere near as bad in terms of lag as a tether grab.

As another incredibly useful benefit to Q’s grab game, Q has a unique trait solely of his own; Q is able to grab pitfalled opponents. Yes, opponents who have been driven into the ground can now be forcibly torn out of it via Q’s grab. Very, very useful considering Q’s Smash attacks all have the pitfalling trait and a few of his aerials do as well.

Pummel: Q applies quite a bit of forceful pressure to the foe’s throat, crushing it in his powerful grip. Quite easy to spam but it’ll only do 2% a pop.

Forward Throw: Curious Agony
Q hods the foe slightly before his face as if he were examining them. A moment later, Q punches forward with his free hand, striking the foe in the stomach three times in quick succession. He then pulls the foe closer and examines them again before punching them a good distance forward. All in all, each punch deals 2% and the entire duration of the throw is a whopping two seconds. An obvious choice to use when you’re about to blow; just make sure you don’t screw up the timing and punch them away from you and into a safe zone.

Upward Throw: Deadly Blow
One of Q’s signature moves in 3rd Strike is called Capture and Deadly Blow. Well…you’ve already done the capturing, time for the deadly blow! This is a fairly simple move on paper; Q uppercuts the foe with such tremendous force that they soar straight off the top of the screen! Of course, they don’t die instantly or anything…think more like Meta Knight’s up throw! After a moment of being off stage, the opponent will plummet back down to the earth taking a solid 11% total (6% for the punch, 5% for the impact).

But…while the foe is off screen, you have full control over Q. This would be a really good time to taunt up! To top it all off, why not add insult to injury and down tilt your foe after this?

Down Throw: Face Scraper
Feeling particularly evil, Q pushes the foe down to the ground. He then kneels down, grabs the foe by the back of the head and begins grinding their face on the ground below for a full two seconds! Ouch! This deals a fairly weak 5% damage…but the obvious usage of this is as yet another time waster. Remember, the longer your foe is held up, the closer you get to exploding and taking them with you! After the two seconds is up, Q releases his grip on the foe and bounds backwards a Bowser width.

Back Throw: Inhuman Brutality
Q forcefully lifts the opponent over his head with his amazing strength before slamming the foe’s face directly down on his knee before throwing the foe casually behind him. This deals a 8% and lasts about a second and a half total. Fortunately this throw leaves the foe close enough that Q can follow up whether it be with a smash, a tilt or Total Destruction’s explosion.


STANDARD ATTACKS

Neutral Combo: Body Hurl
Q’s one of those fancy characters like Zelda or Ganondorf who are too good for a multi-hit Neutral Combo. As such, Q’s Standard A attack is considerably laggier yet more powerful than most others. In fact, it’s the most powerful (and the slowest!) on in the game! Upon pressing A, Q will hop up a short distance and kick forcefully out with both legs. This has pretty good range (considering how long Q’s legs are) but is fairly laggy start up wise and INCREDIBLY laggy ending wise (since he basically hurls himself toward the foe and lands on his chest/stomach).

Connecting with this though will deal 10% and medium “get away” knockback. Yeah, it’s more powerful than some of his tilts. Crazy world huh?

Dash Attack: Rapid Crasher
Yes, despite the fact that Q doesn’t have a traditional dash, he does in fact have a traditional dash attack. Upon inputting the command, Q will unleash a flurry of heavy swipes with his arms, five in total, while constantly walking forward. Each swipe first four swipes do 2% and just enough knockback that it locks the opponent in for all of the hits with the last hit dealing 3% and moderate knockback. The cool down time for this move is a bit long (which shouldn’t be a problem if you knocked them away with the last hit). The main problem here is however is that if you miss the first swipe, Q will be left doing the remainder of the attack on nothing leaving him incredibly vulnerable to retaliation.

Its long duration however has some obvious benefits. Because it locks the opponent in until the fifth punch, it gives Q plenty of time to self-destruct on the foe providing you timed it properly. If you don’t however you’ll probably end up punching them away from the explosion leaving you vulnerable during your canceling time or dealing considerable damage to yourself. This also has the benefit of being a deceptively quick dash attack due to Q’s weird dash methods.

Up Tilt: Defensive Flail
Q raises his arms over his face before swinging three times before him in quick succession diagonally before him. This deals pitiful damage (4% total) but is a good anti-air move to get foes out of your hair. Each hit does the same amount of knockback (which is medium set) making each hit effective in terms of getting the foe away. Fair bit of start up lag and a fair bit of cool down.

Also on the bright side, this can and will destroy/reflect any projectiles that come towards Q…it’s just a shame that so few projectiles actually come from such a weird angle. That being said, the priority of this move is very good.

Side Tilt: Sweeping Strike
For a side tilt, Q’s strikes fairly lowly…especially considering his huge height! Sweeping at the foe’s legs, Q attempts to knock them off balance. If this attack connects, it’ll deal 6% and instantly knock the foe into a tripped state. A fairly basic move with good range and decent speed…if only there was another more downward direction tilt that one could follow this up with…

Down Tilt: Grinder
Q stomps forward in a very Warlordian fashion dealing 4% and flinching knockback. Pathetic attack is pathetic, moving right along. Or…or maybe there’s more to this? Yes, this is actually based on one of Q’s victory poses in 3rd Strike in which he approaches his fallen foe and begins grinding his boot into them.

And that’s exactly what he does here! In a deceptively quick movement (like how many of Q’s moves seem to be…) Q stamps down on the grounded/tripped victim dealing 3%. He then continues to grind his boot into the foe for one and a half seconds (dealing 5% in the process).The opponent will then spasm, causing Q to let up and take a few steps backwards keeping this from being an infinite for Q. Q’s side tilt is an obvious set up for this one but don’t be afraid to use it anytime you can. Also needless to say, this move is a great one for holding the foe down until you explode.


SMASH ATTACKS

Up Smash: Aerial Ripper
Anti-air move? In my Smash set? It’s more likely than you think! Q crouches down, his arms spread out at his sides. Once the move is released, Q will stand up straight and clap directly above him with both arms. If anyone is above him when his hands clap together, it’ll act like a grab hitbox and grab the foe out of the air. Q will then violently slam them directly into the ground dealing 12-17% and pitfall status.
A great set up for Total Destruction or throws, Aerial Ripper can also be angled slightly. During the charge period, tilt the control stick either way diagonally up and Q will strike in the direction you tilted. Great for snagging aggressive aerial foes out of the air where Q doesn’t exactly excel…


Side Smash: Hammer Fist
Q interlocks his hands and raises his arms over his head as he charges this move. Upon releasing the Smash, Q will bring both arms powerfully down upon his foe’s head, pitfalling them instantly and as well as dealing a respectable 18-22% depending on the charge. Be advised though, while this attack isn’t too painfully slow, the range for this move is only about a Kirby width away max.

And make sure to keep in mind Q’s special trait of being able to grab pitfallen foes; a pitfall’d foe who then plays straight into your grab game came be trapped for a tremendous amount of time making this an excellent move for destruction trapping them.

Down Smash: Sweep Snare
Q’s been playing BlazBlue apparently as he took this move from Nirvana. Q drops down to a crouched position as he charges this and, upon releasing the Smash, will begin to spin in a small circle with his arms outstretched to either side (with range equal to Olimar’s down smash). If any opponent is foolish enough to get within range of Q’s swirling arms, they’ll be snatched up and, when he’s done spinning, will be slammed into the ground where they’ll be pitfalled. This attack does no damage until the foe is slammed into the ground…there they’ll take 11-15% depending on the charge. Like Q’s other Smash attacks, this one is fairly slow.

Another great move to set up for Total Destruction or Q’s grab game…I’m hoping your sensing a trend with these Smash attacks…


AERIAL ATTACKS

Neutral Aerial: Glitched Existence
Q, funny enough, takes up a T stance, standing perfectly rigid with his arms extended to both sides of him and will hold this stance until you release the button. If anyone makes contact with either of his hands as he falls, Q will grab them and cling tightly to them. This acts as a grab that can be escaped with normal grab difficulty on the opponent’s behalf. Q however can hold onto them until he falls off the stage (Q-icide), until he detonates from Total Destruction or, if he wants some space, can tap A again, causing Q to hurl the opponent off to the side with 3% and medium set knockback.

Up Aerial: Catch and Release
Q reaches his left arm upwards in an attempt to grab the opponent by the legs. If he manages to grab someone, he’ll immediately fastfall downward until he touches the stage. Obviously if this is done off stage, you’ll both be dying making it an effective form of Q-icide.

The real fun however comes from when you touch the stage. Upon touching down, Q will violently hurl the foe upward, much like his up throw. And…that’s all there is to it really. This attack surprisingly deals no damage as the opponent regains control of their character at the peek of the throw allowing them to land safely. It does however provide a good amount of safe time away from your opponent. It will be a tad harder on those stall-then-fall characters though…

Forward Aerial: Drag Down
Self-describing name is self-describing. Q let’s out a grunt as he jolts forward at a surprising speed with his right arm extended one Battlefield platform length. If Q makes contact with a foe with his right hand, he grab them instantly and rocket towards the ground at incredible speeds! Upon making contact with the ground, the foe will be pitfalled and receive 12%. Keep in mind that this attack forces Q into a freefall if he misses. Lag is minimal on both ends.

Down Aerial: Meteor Fall
Q forcefully and quickly thrusts both arms out to his sides in a fit of rage. Anyone hit by this takes about 5% and moderate GTFO knockback. After this, Q plummets towards the earth at a fall rate nearly double that of Ganondorf’s. While falling, Q’s feet act as a high priority hitbox that deals 8% and massive downward knockback. Using this over the edge as a spike is nothing more than suicide as the beginning of the attack makes it incredibly laggy…but the main use of this move is getting you grounded ASAP so you can build up your taunting. Probably one of Q’s best get-away aerials.

Back Aerial: Rage Fit
Q begins clutching at his head as he starts making weird noises that sound as if he’s hyperventilating. At this point, Q has a counter hitbox. If anyone strikes him during this period, he’ll violently lash out at them with one of his hands (dealing 6%)…he’ll still take the damage of the attack but he won’t take the knockback. After spending a Falcon Punch duration with his “counter stance” Q will let out a cry and thrust his entire body backward, striking at the foe with his head and upper body. Being hit by Q here will deal 10% and medium-high knockback….but it also leaves Q in a freefall

Final Smash
Final Annihilation​

Q has grabbed the Smash Ball and is now glowing with an awesome aura of power! Once activated, Q will instantly lose his “explosion timer” if he had one and will reach out with his right hand to try and grab a foe! If he misses…well, too bad, you just lost your Final Smash! If he connects however…

Q will grab the foe by their throat and proceed to repeatedly punch them in the stomach. After about four or so hits, Q will hammer punch the hunched over foe, spiking them into the ground and causing them to ricochet directly into the air. Q will look up at the now airborne foe and leap after them. Grabbing them by the face in midair, Q begins to glow as that same female voice exclaims “Danger!” Q then looks downwards and croaks out “I am…abomination…” before plummeting directly downwards, opponent first!

Upon making contact with the ground, the two will explode and a massive dust cloud will be kicked up. A moment later, Q’s glowing eyes will be seen through the dust. Eventually the dust will settle and the opponent will be nowhere in sight! Instant KO; obliterated.


Playstyle: Q&A

Okay, so if Q’s playstyle hasn’t been drilled into your brain by this point I’m sorry. Q has two distinct needs during a match…the first of which we’ll discuss is his close range game. As you may or may not have noticed, Q’s only real means of KO are via either suicide KO’s or self-destructing on the foe with his Down Special. The Down Special however requires quite a bit of time to work properly…so while trying to land it you’ll obviously want your opponent to be as close as possible, preferably immobilized. Fortunately, Q has many, many options for this. Almost all of Q’s throws are designed to be fairly length in animation. Grabbing a foe when you’re about to explode is the most certain way to make sure they’re caught in the blast…but immobilizing them via your pitfalling Smash attacks is certainly a viable option too.
Also keep in mind one of Q’s most valuable traits; grabbing pitfalled foes. While this would seem useless on many other characters, because you want the foe as close as possible for as long as possible in this stage, grabbing a foe out of pitfall is an excellent time waster while you wait to detonate. Make sure you don’t underestimate your tilts either, especially your side tilt and down tilt which work perfectly in tandem allowing you to keep your foe trapped for a good deal of time.

And then there’s the Side Special. Dashing Head Attack is one of your most valuable tools as a Q player. Not only is there the sudden element of surprise, but you can easily mix up the effect of the move to suit the situation. Diagonally up works well to force the foe into the air (where you can then grab them via uair/fair/nair) whereas diagonally down leaves them vulnerable to grabs depending on how they react when getting up.

Alrighty, so now you know Q’s close range game, what about his long range game? Well, that game revolves mostly around your Neutral Special. While at first glance it may appear that it’s just a generic healing move…but in reality, you’re going to need it in order to stick around. Q may be heavy but he’s a huge target and is therefore absolute combo/chaingrab bait. Because of this, Q direly needs to make use of his healing abilities and his moves designed especially to get the foe out of his non-existent hair.

First of all, Neutral Special whenever you get an opening. It’s a laggy animation and you’ll need to do it thrice to actually get the benefits…so why not use it when your opponent’s off stage…or maybe when they’ve just been KO’d? If for some reason a Q player tries to play without healing…he’ll be dying pretty easily. Total Destruction will be adding 45% to you per pop and the punishment he’ll likely be taking will add up fast leading you to probably kill yourself with TD.

So heal, heal, heal! I can’t stress this enough! Q’s Side Special, up throw, neutral combo, dash attack, down aerial or any of Q’s pitfalling moves can be used to great effect when it comes to getting some breathing room. Funny thing is, a few of those (including dash, side special and smashes) are also used when it comes to keeping them in close range depending on how they’re used.

Worst comes to worst…if you somehow just CAN’T snag the opponent with Total Destruction…Up Special, neutral aerial and forward aerial and up aerial can all be used as pretty effective Q-icides. Just make sure you have the stock advantage before pulling them off as most of them will kill Q before they kill the opponent because of his big body size.

Q’s special move names truly apply to Q’s playstyle. Capture and Deadly Blow is an obvious one: catch your foe and finish them off with a deadly explosion. Total Destruction is also rather apt: depending on how you use it, you’re either destroying yourself or your opponent.

EXTRAS

Up Taunt: False Alarm
Q clutches at his face and lets out an eerie cry. This, in animation, looks very similar to Total Destruction but without the female voice exclaiming "DANGER". Potential mindgames? Oh, and he won't start blinking or anything.

Side Taunt: Hat Trick
Q reaches up and removes his hat. He then looks away from the screen regardless of which direction he's facing. After a brief moment, he returns the hat to head and shudders...

Down Taunt: Earth Shaker
Q lets out a muffled cry and begins shaking uncontrollably, constantly muttering this as he begins to shake and clutch at his head. Eventually he manages to shake it off...just what is Q...?

Win Pose: Eerie Victory
Unlike other characters, Q only has one victory pose. Regardless of how many people were in the match, only the 2nd place player on screen. The opponent is laying in their Stamina mode KO state and Q is standing over them. He's just...watching them.

Occassionally, Q will do a slight variant of this win pose. Sometimes, Q will stamp down on the downed foe and begin grinding his heel into them, muttering nonsense to himself. Sometimes, he may look up at the camera, look away and then dash directly at the camera, turning the screen to black.



Q is a mystery. Q is an enigma. Q is Q.​


________________

One day set is done in one day. My overall thoughts on this one are pretty good. I ran with what I was given. Q doesn't have a tremendous amount of character...giving him too many robotic aspects would be out of character considering whether he's a robot or not is still up for question...the self destruct and taunting however and 100% in character albeit tweeked slightly for Smash.

Aside from those, pretty much all Q does in 3rd Strike is nothing but basic sloppy brawler moves. He's not a highly trained martial artist and he doesn't have any magic attacks of the sort...Q is just Q.

Also as a random note...Q wasn't actually meant for this new "movement." He just so happened to be a one-day Street Fighter set I started before this movement was even planned. Guess it just worked out weirdly in the timing...

Here's some videos by the way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it3dA4jTQ7E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4URjfj7P9U

And I'll of course comment cutter's set ASAP.
:036:
 

Agi

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
1,120
Location
SE Washington
Q

Wahey, an MT set! That's almost as rare as a Smady set... or for that matter, an Agi set. Anyway, I was a pretty big fan of Strike Man, but does Q hold up against him? Well, sadly, no.

In a word, Q is Ryuk-. He uses the same style of KO with the countdown, except that he has to be right on top of his foe for it to work... and he has no alternative reliable KO method. And he hurts himself in the explosion. This still could work, if there was a bit more flow... but sadly, outside of stunning the foe and riding their shoulders or healing yourself from an explosion, there's not much going on in Q.

What really irked me was the grab-game... all of the throws serve the exact same purpose of stunning the foe, just with a different animation for each one. The UThrow is really the only exception, giving Q the opportunity to use his gimping game... oh wait you threw them right ABOVE the stage, nevermind. It's a shame that Q has no ability to get opponents offstage; it would be so much easier (and more interesting) to have the active threat of a timebomb at the same time as a regular gimping session.

In the end, I really didn't see a whole lot of value in Q. His core concept has been done before, his healing mechanic seems to be the only thing that keeps him from being COMPLETE garbage tier, and his otherwise interesting airgame is countered by not actually being able to get enemies into the air. The Up Special was interesting, the writing style was fairly engaging, and the whole set is apparently very in-character, but those are the only positives I can think of. Anyway, this was an 18ish hour set, so no huge time investment wasted. It does make me wonder if your main problem in movesetting is character choice, though.​

Now, to hope that the DS didn't randomly log me out while I was typing that...
 
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
962
Location
The Make Your Move Rooligan Society
Q
This guy makes me think of Watchmen.

It is a set from a leader, none the less. I see you have already started up the fighting contest. Though for your status, a set from a leader always means business. In the chat you said something about Agi's OoC rant or something like that. Never mind bout that.

Methinks your witty writing is good, but perhaps there is a time and place for it; Soul Crusher totally gives me the wrong impression, it makes me think Q is actually going to do something really nasty and cool. But all he does is a crappy taunt - you even insist he's going to hurt your foe's pride. But he doesn't do that, he heals himself instead. This little situationny might be so in the Up Special. But that's just a big fat nitpick of course. In fact it wasn't even fair for me to say something so negative. What Im probably trying to say is that sometimes it's a good idea to get to the point.

Stuff like grabbing pitfalls foe and grabbing ledgies makes me think of cool things for cool playstyles. None the less, the U-throw is absolutely epic stuff. I like the way it's introduced - you make good use of your writing skills. Even being able to move is ingenious stuff.

AWESOMEAWESOMEAWESOMEAWESOMEAWESOMEAWESOMEAWESOMEAWESOMEAWESOMEAWESOMEAWESOME
AWESOMEAWESOMEAWESOMEAWESOMEAWESOMEAWESOMEAWESOMEAWESOMEAWESOMEAWESOMEAWESOME

Now, I probably wouldn't and shouldn't be saying this, but . . Q's playstyle is . . . well . . . a bit bland. Most of his moves seem to only be "great for stalling". Hmm, but that's not to say that Q is bad or anything, that would bring about low. I guess his playstyle is simple more than anything else. And I mean, you didn't really have a lot to work with - it is a good effort that I shouldn't shun.

With that, let's sum it all down. FUN? Check - with that awesome U-throw and extras to make fun sososo. EDUCATIONAL? Lolno. Some dude who has no backstory isn't much good. But the set was literally EDUCATIONAL for a guy like me who don't do SF. On the other hand, this set was MOTIVATIONAL for me. Got me on to check out this Q guy on the net. Yay. Q's animations are funny.

Cool 1 day set. This makes me hope that somebody does a moveset for Akuma.
 
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
1,954
Location
The Cosmos Beneath Rosalina's Skirt
Wahey, an MT set! That's almost as rare as a Smady set... or for that matter, an Agi set. Anyway, I was a pretty big fan of Strike Man, but does Q hold up against him? Well, sadly, no.
Sorry to hear you didn't like Q agi! It's kinda funny. It seems whenever I make a set it has some people who really like it and some people who really detest it. Same thing happened with Silver and Strike Man before.

Just to touch slightly on some of the stuff you said, yeah, a few of the throws are more or less very similar but it's kind of difficult to make them unique without losing sight of the playstyle...I mean, with Q, the playstyle is incredibly blunt and obvious. Straying too far from that in order to "spice things up" would probably end up detracting more from the set than anything else, at least in my eyes.

As for his aerial game...he really doesn't have a whole lot in terms of gimping which is why that part of the comment is a tad bit confusing to me. Almost all of his aerials that could gimp a foe are suicide kills. Off stage really isn't somewhere Q wants to be unless his percentage is high enough that a suicide kill is the best option.

But yes, I'm glad you at least read him and gave him a good comment, it's just a shame he wasn't to your taste; at least you like Strikey though!

EDIT: I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that last bit though...are you suggesting that I'm limiting myself by the characters I chose? I'm not calling you out on that or anything, just curious as to what you meant. Admittedly, I'd rather make movesets for characters I really enjoy than ones that I have some killer breakthrough concept for. Q was an absolute blast to make and I, obviously, got a lot more work done on him in one day than I have on some of my other more "playstyle based" movesets.

Q
This guy makes me think of Watchmen.

It is a set from a leader, none the less. I see you have already started up the fighting contest. Though for your status, a set from a leader always means business. In the chat you said something about Agi's OoC rant or something like that. Never mind bout that.
To address the first bit so it doesn't get taken the wrong way; that was meant as a joke. I said in the chat that I had an eerie feeling that agi wouldn't like Q very much so I mentioned something about agi going OoC and just going insane on the set xD

Plus you flatter me way too much with all this leader talk; I'm nothing special ;P

As for your comment it self...I'm glad you enjoyed it (at least I think you did)! Yes, admittedly Q's playstyle isn't exactly the most glamerous of all playstyles but it's blunt and to the point, much like Q himself. In 3rd Strike, his moveset consists of mainly punches and kicks with some erratic movement based attacks thrown in here or there. The most unique thing about him is probably his Total Destruction Super Art...and that's only one of his Super Arts! The other two are a series of rapid punches as he rushes forward (similalar to his dash attack here) and an attack where he punches his foe in the gut before hammering them down sending them rocketing up (modified and used as part of the uthrow and the side smash).

So yeah, I didn't really have a whoooooole lot to work with and, while that's obviously not an excuse as to why his playstyle's a tad bland or why his moves may be a bit redundant in parts, it hopefully offers some insight as to -WHY- they are. As for the Neutral Special well...wouldn't it be rather soul crushing to have a robotic man taunting you? ;P

Also, yeah, I'd tell you more about Q but there really isn't a whole lot else to tell xD He's a mysterious person (robot?) really who's intentionally made with almost no character.

And that'd be epic if somebody made Akuma! Thanks for the comment!

:037:
 

BKupa666

Barnacled Boss
Moderator
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
7,698
Location
Toxic Tower
Jace
Let me start out by saying Jace is quite a bit better than your showing with B.B. Hood, by a longshot. Anyways, it's apparent that you are knowledgeable on the technical aspect of Smash, which is far more than I can say. Because of this, there were a few points in the moveset where I had to look up or guess what you were writing about. I agree with agi when he suggests you leave these elements of Brawl's mechanics out of sets.

You've captured the essence of Jade in the specials rather nicely; the moves are plenty original, while in character (which some newer MYMers find difficult to accomplish). My major complaint with the set is that many move descriptions are a bit...verbose. You dedicate a fairly sizable wall of text to even the simpler basic attacks, which can be a turn off to some readers. I would either divide these walls into paragraphs to increase readability, or simply cut down on detail. Most people here will still understand the basic properties of your moves. As I said earlier, great improvement over B.B. Hood; hopefully you continue to make sets like Jace, while steadily improving from there.

Q
A MT set? Can't miss the opportunity to comment on this, now can I? Q's whole shtick reminds me a bit of Strangelove, but to a lesser extreme (he won't instantly KO himself with his explosion). Q's ability to heal adds a nice extra dimension to the mix. Unlike agi, I don't mind the throws all serving the same purpose (it would be hypocritical at me, considering this is the case with one of my future sets). The basic attacks all seem fairly run-of-the-mill; while this doesn't make Q stand out as a juicy unSmash character, why do they need to? They are perfectly fitting in his (intricate and awesome) playstyle as they are, and it would be a shame to turn them into something more creative just for the sake of doing so. One of your best so far, in my eyes, along with Negative Man, Swalot, and Silver.
 

n88_2004

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,432
Generalish Black Cat response:
Thanks to everybody who didn't critique Black Cat as though I had just written it recently. As to why the moveset is the way it is, I can't really say much, because I had completely forgotten the set existed until I found it on my computer the day before I posted it. I don't even know why I didn't post it in MYM6. >.>

@Kupa/Wiz

The rope attacks are already being re-worked into something else, actually, along with several newer ideas, although the random-element is not.

@fil

The bad luck powers are indeed canonical, although in the comics they act as more of a subconscious ability in the storyline; she really just does it automatically to everyone around her, whether she likes it or not.

I would comment Magmortar here (Who I read and loved), but really half the reason I'm posting is just as filler, and if I commented now, it would be rather hal-***ed and rushed. I'll try to comment Q, Magmortar, and Jace in a bit.
 

Agi

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
1,120
Location
SE Washington
Just to touch slightly on some of the stuff you said, yeah, a few of the throws are more or less very similar but it's kind of difficult to make them unique without losing sight of the playstyle...I mean, with Q, the playstyle is incredibly blunt and obvious. Straying too far from that in order to "spice things up" would probably end up detracting more from the set than anything else, at least in my eyes.

As for his aerial game...he really doesn't have a whole lot in terms of gimping which is why that part of the comment is a tad bit confusing to me. Almost all of his aerials that could gimp a foe are suicide kills. Off stage really isn't somewhere Q wants to be unless his percentage is high enough that a suicide kill is the best option.
Well yeah, I can see that, but there are certainly more ways to slow your opponent down besides blatantly stunning them. Q is slow, and needs to be next to the foe at a specific time... one of the throws could keep them from dashing with a status effect or something, or give them the old broken back status so they they can only run away so far. When all the throws do the same thing you may as well only have one that you can aim multiple directions.

Also, I consider suicide moves to count as gimping, but that's probably just me. Either way I'd like to be able to USE those moves instead of pinning my opponent with every smash. :s

And I know that character choice affects your enthusiasm for set making... which is why sets you make for characters you like and have potential are good... and why I'm not a big fan of sets you make for characters with little potential aside from one gimmick. That's all.

Oh hey, Kamek. *reads*

KAMEK

Well then, time for a positive comment, eh? Kamek was a pretty cool set, although I admittedly hadn't read any of your others that I can compare it to. There were some fairly clever interactions that never went over the top, although I'm not certain that all of them would actually be feasible... FAir slamming into an FTilt's fireball is alright, if limited, but I honestly don't think it would be possible for the DAir to hit anything factoring in how far the fireball would already have traveled as well as starting/ending lag. I suppose that clever teleportation could potentially make it work, but it honestly wouldn't be worth it to make an inferno that lasts all of an eighth of a second. I also question whether or not raising up platforms limits Kamek's main focus with all of his spells, but hey. The Shy Guys are pretty well handled so what's lost is regained.

There are a few awkward moves here and there... Dash Attack especially. It's probably because Magmortar just did the exact same move in his Neutral Special, or maybe the way you all of a sudden say that you can use it out of teleporting from the Down Special despite saying that the Down Special had no hitbox, but it feels out of place, somehow. That's not to say it's not a move Kamek shouldn't have... maybe if you were to combine the UTilt/DTilt into the same input (Dtilt, probably) it could become the new UTilt. You'd probably need the arcing effect to hit those Shy Guys wandering around on your moving platforms, so it definitely serves a purpose. It makes for a weird dash attack, though. UAir is another example of an awkward move, this time in the wording, not the move itself. What happens if you hit the ground before the hexes make it back to your wand? Do they keep flying in the same direction, or do they resume their former flight patterns?

That just about covers my concerns for the set, though... at least, those I didn't already mention to you in the chat/those I can't remember without a reread. So yeah, I really liked this set, and the amount of complaining I did doesn't reflect on my opinion of the set as a whole. Solid job, Nate.
 

Darkslash

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
4,076
Location
Strangereal Equestria
I couldn't start off with a original sentence so I copied this from the MYM chat.

Q


A MT set! It's like Christmas in July......discerning the fact that it is still July. But after reading Q, I actually have to agree with Agi, to some degree. Q depends on self destruct a bit too much, and with Q, I see no other way to K.O a opponent with out seeing his raep face, could make the character stale real fast, not to mention, predictable.

What I really disliked about this set was the smashes. While it fits Q's play style, do the same role with some variations here and there. From what I see, none of them have much K.O potential, seeing how they all want the opponent as close to Q as possible.

All in all, I do have to applaud you for keeping the character, well....in character. And with the little time you had, was nicely written.

I hope I didn't sound like a parrot too much. (WARY)


Kamek

Word in advance, I have trouble comprehending the set at the moment, so excuse my crappy comment. :p

Kamek is in line with his character. That being one annoying son of a *****. The stage manipulation reminds me a lot of Silver the hedgehog from MYM7, and while nice, need a bit more elaboration. But shy guy's kind make up for it, so it's all good.

Bah, I suck at commentating. So excuse me if it's really sucky.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that Kamek is your best looking set to date, Nate....(smirk). Keep up the improvement.
 

MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
2,814
Location
Crocodilopolis/White King’s Paradise
Q

You already know my opinion of Q from the chat, MT, but in any case I’m rather fond of Q’s playstyle concepts in keeping on top of the foe and occupying them so he can’t escape while he explodes, as well as just buying time for his healing taunts to make up for the explosion damage. It’s a pretty unique playstyle concept and there’s plenty of flow to it. The only problem is that the fact this was made in a 24 hour span shows up pretty clearly via the many mirrored inputs. You say that changing these inputs would hurt the flow, but it’s not like there are no other ways to stop on top of the foe – I’d like to of perhaps seen a bit more tech chasing with that cool dash or something.

Either way, it still works, and he has little reason to do stuff other than what he flows into – he only needs 30% before his main game can start kicking in and he can start going for KOs, and before then he can go for healing taunts anyway. The aerials can look a bit desynched from the main playstyle at a glance, but the suicide KOs will come quite in handy with Q’s self damaging. . .Not that he needs so many of them, but bah. I can cut some slack considering the (awesome) character.

KAMEK

Kamek is a pretty gigantic step-up from your previous works, although I think a lot of it may have to do with the fact you choose a character with massive potential rather than one with next to none, like most of your generic enemy movesets. In any case, though, this moveset has much more of a sense of playstyle than any of your previous works, with interactions (Creative and interesting ones at that) out the wazoo. The terrain elevating and the neutral attack are most interesting with making the foe’s positioning awkward, and you can throw Shy Guys into the mix to make things chaotic while you camp at the foe. You can make them smaller so they have a harder time reaching you, and if they have a reflector you can spam the size changing move as well as the other moves with similar animations to potentially get bigger. Teleporting between your pillars is always great too to keep getting away from the foe, especially if you want to set up some hexes to use for your throws.

While Kamek can make an ideal pedestal to camp from and make approaching him hell, I wish you had more to throw into the mix for actual traps on the hellish terrain, because as flashy as it is it doesn’t seem particularly harmful. There’s the Usmash hexes and hexes in general, but those are more set-up for your throws rather then as actual traps, which I think are the main missing element needed to complete the set.

The interactions don’t always help one individual style despite all being irrestibly cool by themselves, but they’re able to work together enough to form a cohesive set. The only interactions that are awkward are ones that could just be put onto an existing move and only serve to make Kamek more awkward to play – why not just make the jab aimable in the first place? In any case, though, those are relatively low in quantity, so smeh.

All in all, definitely a very cool move interaction playground you’ve come up with, there being enough in it to play around with for nearly as long as Empoleon. . .Okay, maybe not nearly that many, but Kamek has much more flow than the heavyweight penguin king emperor. If I didn’t make it clear enough, I really like this set and hope what you’ve learned with this set sticks around. Definitely superior to Rooligan’s mediocre take on the character.

MAGMORTAR

You encourage variety with Magmortar in the playstyle, but this is mainly due to his Lava Plumes/Smokescreens/Flame Wheels not lasting long enough, forcing him to switch things up and limiting how many of the beautiful interactions can be used to their fullest potential. Either way, though, those interactions are really something. The biggest parts of his game are the aerial game centered around Smokescreen and camping at the foe with a Lava Plume (And possibly a stone wall) between you and him, and considering Magmortar’s camping naturally encourages the foe to get into the air this naturally links into his air game. If you take that away, though, there’s not much left to him, which is why the somewhat forced variety with the time limits irritates me (It’s not a matter of balance – it’s a matter of being able to use all of what you’ve designed well).

Of course, outside that one single minute complaint, that’s not meant to downplay what he does have, and still does have other things besides that, such as sitting and camping in the lava itself to lure foes in for a usmash/grab followed by dthrow. The main (good) variety I see is when a foe actually climbs over his wall – he can run to set up another wall on the other side of the lava plume, pressure them against the wall, or fake that he’s running away only to bait the foe into his aerial game. There are a lot of phases to his game, to be certain, but they’re all interconnected, just the way they should be. I just wish you hadn’t waited so long to post the set, considering it’s virtually unchanged from when I first read it. For where it’d of placed on your list, it’s got some stiff competition in Hariyama, Subaru, and Harbinger. It pains me so to choose.
 
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
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Location
The Cosmos Beneath Rosalina's Skirt
The Wheel of Comments is turning!
Rebel one!
Action!​

Dionysus

Okay sooooooo...Kupa's been waiting oh so patiently for my comment on this guy (except he probably hasn't since he's probably almost done with his next set...) so here it is! Now first and foremost, I'm a huge mythology nerd (hell, I made Odysseus back in MYM4) so I obviously get a massive brainer when MYM has a rare set based on it. Srsly, there is so much potential there but nobody seems to want to touch it.

BUT...onto the set itself. First off, the whole concept is purdy darn awesome. I mean...he's basically a character who requires that the opponent comes to him....but why should they? I mean, he's pretty much a wuss outside of his vineyard, why not let him come to you? Well, because he's got moves that force the foe over to him, that's why! And...if that's not good enough...you could always force them to approach via indirect means. How much would that suck to be camping against Dionysus only to have him heal all of his damage back? About as much as it sucks to be camped against, serves em right! But you of course know all this, you wrote the set afterall...just expressing my approval of both the subtle and less than subtle methods you have of forcing the foe into your territory.

Overall, I wouldn't say this is your best set really...oh wait, yes I would (chew). I'd certainly say that Dionysus is an original take on the whole zoning/set up character and it works very well. It all flows (that's such an easy word to toss around now) very well together. In short, ace job here Kupa!

Gengar

Okay! Slowly getting caught up here. Gengar! And he's got a heavy dash focus, interesting. Now there's one thing I want to question right off the bat, not a major complaint or anything, just something I noted...ftilt comes fluidly out of the dash? I find that hard to believe considering you'd need to come to a stop and -THEN- ftilt, otherwise it'd just be a dash attack. Some other moves share this but it's been a while since I've actually played Smash so maybe you can do it that way, I dunno.

As for the set itself, you've got some good concepts here. The heavy dashing focus is nifty but kind of weird for a character who in the first line of the playstyle you claim is defensive (as he uses his dashing more for attacking it seems)...but he does use it to reduce his height and all so I guess that's kind of defensive. I'm admittedly a tad surprised that Gengar is so full of projectile/energy based attacks instead of what you'd typically expect from a shadowy ghoul. The grab game feels more like Gengar but I question how really useful it is considering it won't activate (down throw aside) until the foe is at 80%. While this could be pretty good, as far as I saw, his grab game wasn't mentioned in the playstyle at all...it's like...Gengar could've focused on his sneaky, ghostly damage racking and then KO'd via Dream Eater or Nightmare. It'd make the grab game (which is pretty cool) more connected to the set and would probably fit Gengar pretty well.

But, I've been far too negative and I'm sorry for that. Gengar's pretty cool and a great first attempt at a set. My only real faults with the set are that it seems kind of scattered in places and isn't quite as focused as it could be. But...Gengar is old like Dionysus. You're already working on your next set (almost done if I'm not mistaken) so I'm pretty sure that one'll top Gengar no sweat.

____

My apologies for not commenting everything else in this post. Today has been pretty stressful and it's taken me...literally two hours of me going to and from my computer to type up these two comments. I apologize for not commenting Kamek now especially since it's his page but I just wanted to get these ones out especially since I'll be going out now for a bit.

Sorry again!
:038:
 

Moogi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
189
Location
Canada
I'm taking a break from Pulseman; cuz procrastination sucks...

and instead I'm doing a character that gives me so many ideas my brain might explode :p

Oh, and if you don't know who this person is, you clearly have a life. Wait...lets pretend I never said that.
 

Thrice

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
45
Location
Washington


Beforehand
Childre Inarabitta is one of the bosses of Mega Man Zero 3. Childre is based on the White Hare of Inaba from the Kojiki book, and he was designed small for high-speed maneuvers, being able to spring and pounce freely on water. He was one of the Eight Gentle Judges before being brainwashed by Dr. Weil to be one of Weil's Numbers, and was sent to capture the Dark Elf, but was defeated by Zero.

STATS


Speed: 8 - Childre is a rabbit, you shouldn't have expected him to be slow, really. He's fast, but as I mention later, he gets even faster on ice. He also does not “run,” he hops.
Weight: 3 - Again, he's a rabbit, he's pretty light, and he'll die easily.
Traction: 10 - Childre has really great traction, and never slides himself. Ice does not affect this.
Jump: 8 - Again, rabbit. Rabbits have very strong hind legs.
Fall Speed: 4 - He's really light, so he falls pretty slowly.
Special: Childre can hop on water. He cannot sit idly, but he can hop on water as long as he keeps moving.

Specials


Down Special - Permafrost - Childre inhales, puffing out slightly, then leans forward and exhales fiercely, with the entire move taking about three fourths of a second. When he exhales, a generic wind animation is seen, and all ground within 1.5 Battlefield Platforms of Childre's mouth is frozen solid, with the ice spreading from right in front of him. As with all ice, this drastically lowers most characters' traction, excluding the Ice Climbers and Childre himself. In fact, Childre actually gains a speed boost on icy surfaces, to about 1.25x his normal speed. While this alone adds to Childre's usefulness, anyone caught by the spreading ice will take 5% damage and be frozen solid. This freezing lasts a little longer than one caused by a Freezie or something similar, but it still based on damage %. The ice itself lasts for 7 seconds. Any player frozen by any of Childre's attacks will break out of the ice instantly if they are hit by an attack.

Neutral Special - Icebound Heart – Depending on how you play Childre, you may or may not depend on this move. When you activate this attack, Childre will pause, then (after about ¼ of a second) begin to glow a light blue for about six seconds.
Icebound Heart acts as a general buff for Childre. While under its effects, Childre will gain a 25% speed boost, as if he were always on ice (note: the game counts you as being on ice while you are using this, so you cannot gain another boost by actually walking onto ice). His freezing moves will also freeze for a longer amount of time(about three seconds longer for floors, and 1.5X longer for foes).
However, these boosts do not come without consequence. While under the effects of Icebound Heart, Childre's moves will not gain power if used on a frozen foe, and any attacks that react with ice will no longer do so, with the exception of Childre's Down Throw. This move is meant to be used as a setup aid, not a direct KO aid.

Side Special - Blizz Missiles – Again, depending on how you play Childre, this move can be a cornerstone of the set or completely useless to you. When you initiate the attack, Childre will form two normal-looking(think the typical fat, round missile) missiles out of mist, and then fire them, with the whole animation taking ½ a second. The missiles have moderate homing capabilities, and will explode on impact with the ground, but not a player. If they DO hit the ground and explode, mist will scatter, covering 1/3 of a Battlefield Platform. The mist will freeze any player for one half of the time they would be frozen by a Freezie in a similar situation(it will not freeze the ground). If the missiles instead hit a player, the player will simply take 6% damage and be pushed backwards a set distance(this does not count as knockback, as they do not flinch and stay in whatever position they were in when they were hit).

Up Special - Cicle Storm/Dive – This is really two attacks in one.
If used on the ground, Childre will crouch down for one third of a second, then spring up,standing on his hind legs, and fire off six large icicles, three from each side. They'll travel 1.5 Battlefield Platforms at the angle they were launched; one at 45 degrees, one straight forward, and one along the ground, which will follow terrain. After that distance has been covered, the icicles will fall(after all, things don't just disappear). The icicle traveling along the ground will shatter immediately, since it has nowhere to fall(unless it traveled off of an edge, in which case it will behave like the other two). The other two gain momentum as they fall to the stage, and will shatter if they contact anything. However, if they make it at least 1.25 Battlefield Platforms before they shatter, they will become a fine mist upon impact. *The top icicles will almost always fall at least the required distance if they only traveled over straight ground or a downwards slope, while the middle ones will only fulfill this if they traveled over certain downward slopes*

Until their descent, all three icicles share the same damage/knockback, which is 5% and usually set at weak. It doesn't matter what part of the icicle they touch, the opponent will always take the same damage, but knockback will increase to a set medium if the very point of the icicle hits them. The move has an unusually large amount of hitstun as well. However, the true use of this move is when the icicles begin to fall. Here, they all share a damage of 8% and set medium knockback, but the true purpose is if the middle or top icicles have fallen more than 1.25 Battlefield Platforms and become mist upon hitting a surface. The mist created by this will cover about 1 Battlefield Platform altogether, and will freeze anyone caught by it for a little longer than a Freezie. NOTE: Childre cannot spam this move, as when he uses it, his fur will droop, and he cannot use it until it stands back up 3 seconds later.

If used in the air, this move becomes a completely different attack, launching Childre up a little further than Fire Fox. After he's traveled this distance, Childre will then hop three times in midair, either left or right depending on which direction you hold. He'll travel the length of 1 Battlefield Platform over three hops, then encase himself in ice and dive straight down. This may well lead to Childre's death, but at least it gives him a little horizontal recovery.

That's not all, however. For each hop, Childre will leave an Ice Bomb behind. These begin to drop immediately after being placed.

The ice bombs will shatter on impact with anything, including a player. If a player was hit, they will be frozen for a little less than a Freezie. If the Ice Bombs hit the ground, they will freeze that part of the ground, for a section of about half a Battlefield Platform per bomb, meaning that if all three hit, you can get a little more than 1 Battlefield Platform covered in ice (since the middle one will be in the middle of the outer two). The ice lasts for 5 seconds, or a little less than that of the Down Special.
Childre's dive deals 6% damage normally, with weak knockback, and does not freeze. However, if the opponent is frozen beforehand, the move will deal 13% and medium-high knockback, KOing at around 125%. The Ice Bombs deal 3% if they hit a player, with small set knockback.

STANDARDS


Standard A: Inhale - No, Childre is not Kirby. When Childre uses this, he'll inhale air in a similar manner to Kirby or DDD, and any opponent within one half of a Battlefield Platform will slightly slide towards him. When he's done, his cheeks will puff up for 2.5 seconds, due to him holding the air in them. Using the D-Spec during this time will extend its range to 1.75 Battlefield Platforms. (This isn't even really a move, it's an interaction)

Ftilt: Ice Fang(lolblatantcopyright)- When his Ftilt is used, Childre will lunge forward after a fourth of a second of lag, mouth wide open. After 2/5 of a Battlefield Platform, he'll chomp down, grabbing anyone unlucky enough to be there in his teeth for 7% damage. This grab-like pose will end after one third of a second, but there is more to this attack. If you press down during that third of a second, Childre will execute his Down Throw! It behaves exactly like his normal D-Throw, and this “grab” has more range. However, Childre cannot use any other throw from this position. Hitting Childre before he chomps down will of course cancel this attack.

Dtilt: Boing!- When this technique is used, Childre shows us all that he really is a rabbit. He'll crouch down for four frames and then launch himself into the air, this going a little higher than his normal jump. Any foe standing next to Childre when he uses this will take 8% damage(11% if frozen) and be “grounded.” While this isn't as useful as Freezing them, it serves a similar purpose, which is allowing Childre to set up. And this attack comes out very, very quickly, and technically has no end lag as it is just an enhanced jump. This does count as his ground Jump, and he can execute any aerials normally.

Utilt: Hind Crusher - Childre again shows us his rabbitty back leg strength. He'll crouch down on his back for a third of a second, then SLAM his hind legs into the air. This has good range(as his legs are relatively long) and a third of a second of end lag as he gets back on his feet. The kick will do 7% and medium Knockback to a normal foe, but becomes a deadly kill technique with 14% and high knockback(KOing at about 110%) if they are frozen.

Dash: Slip N Slide - Using Childre's Dash Attack has him lunge forward 1/2 of a Battlefield Platform using his back legs. If he hits anyone, he'll grab them in his teeth and toss them backwards a set distance. Normally, this does a good 9% damage, and that's it. However, if the foe happens to land on ice, they'll keep sliding until the ice ends, speeding up as they go, to a maximum of Bowser's run.

Smashes


Fsmash: Back Leg Barrage - Childre takes a third of a second to get onto his back, then will either release a flurry of 10 kicks, each doing 1% damage and covering a range of one third of a Battlefield Platform, or hold his position, depending on if you charge. Even fully charged, the attack only does 15%(every other kick doing 2%). This also has little knockback on the last kick, and none on any of the others. It's also not difficult to DI out of. If the foe is frozen, no kicks except the last will break the ice, and there will be 12 kicks set up in the same way as if it were fully charged(charging does nothing if the foe is frozen), for a total of 18% damage. The last kick will also have slightly stronger knockback. Obviously, this is not a kill move, but rather a damage racker to get you up there.

Dsmash: Arctic Breeze - At first, it seems that Childre has no Dsmash, as using it normally does nothing. However, if used on ice, Childre will inhale, then point his head downward and exhale heavily(all taking around a half of a second). This will launch a small, shockwave-like wave across the surface of the ice(but only in front of Childre), restoring it by ¾ of a second, and freezing any opponent hit by the shockwave to the ice for the same time as a Freezie, as well as dealing 7% damage. However, the uncharged shockwave is about the speed of Ganondorf's walk, and thus is easy to dodge. Fully charged, the shockwave will travel at the blazing speed of Ganondorf's run, will restore the ice by 2 seconds (though this isn't that much when accounting for charge time) and will deal 12% damage to anyone caught by it.

Usmash: Arctic Drill(lolplayonwords) - Childre's Up-Smash is one of his precious kill moves. When used, he'll crouch down(he likes to do this, it's a hobby) for one third of a second(he really likes that number) while mist surrounds him, then spring up about one half of a Battlefield Platform(1.5 if fully charged), spinning around rapidly with the mist twirling about him. It seems like something that would be used in a Pokemon Contest, but it's more useful in battle. It's a multi-hit attack, each hit doing 2%. Uncharged, it'll hit 4 times, for 8% damage. Fully charged, it'll hit 8 times, for 16%. The knockback of the final hit of course varies depending on charge, but uncharged it'll kill around 130%, and fully charged it KOs at 112%.

Aerials


Nair: IZUNA DROP(exceptnotreally) - This is one of Childre's laggier moves. When executed, he takes ¾ of a second to cover himself in a coat of ice....then drops straight down onto the ground/foe at high, increasing speed. If they aren't frozen, it'll do 9% and low-medium knockback. If the foes IS frozen, the move will deal 13% and medium-high vertical knockback. This can easily be used after a successful D-Tilt if you so wish, but of course being “grounded” does not count as being frozen. The ice breaks if Childre is hit before he hits the ground, or whenever he does so.

Fair: Bunny Tackle - No real reason for the bunny in there, I just thought it'd be more humiliating to be hit by (CHEW). Childre dives forward and down(with little beginning lag), taking anyone he hits along for the ride. Normally, when you hit the ground, any foe in your grasp takes 8% damage and is put into their “knocked down” state, with no knockback at all. However, if you land on an icy surface, then the foe will be frozen to it for 1.5 times the length of a Freezie freeze, still taking 8% damage.

Bair: Cold Rotation - Childre pauses in midair and mist forms around his mouth. He then turns his mouth to the side and sharply exhales, spinning himself around in midair and forming a circle of ice around himself. This whole process takes around ¾ of a second, after which the circle will fall downward at the speed of Mario's run. If it hits anyone, it will simply do 6% damage and break. However, if the circle makes it to the ground, it will freeze an area of the ground about a half a Battlefield Platform wide for 4 seconds.

Dair: Ice Sculpture - Childre pauses in midair, then forms a large mist under him. He then pushes the mist to the ground(all of this taking one half of a second), sending himself upwards a small bit. The mist travels at the speed of Ganondorf's run. If this mist contacts a foe, they'll be frozen, which lasts twice as long as a Freezie freeze. However, this does no damage at all.

Uair: Mini-Propulsion - Childre again inhales, for ¼ of a second this time, then tilts his head up and exhales a fine mist, which can be held until you touch the ground.. This pushes Childre down a bit, and the mist will freeze anyone it hit. If the mist is fired onto a platform, it will freeze the TOP of the platform wherever it hits. Childre can move left and right while he uses this technique.

Throws


Grab - Childre's Grab is just a normal old bite, nothing special. It has mediocre range, but is fairly quick. His grab is pretty good in terms of length, making it harder to break out of. It also resembles his Ftilt...

Pummel: Frozen Breath - Exactly as it sounds. Childre breaths a freezing mist onto his opponent, freezing them for the same amount as a Freezie and ending the grab.

Uthrow: Frozen Feet- Childre lets go of whoever he has in his grip, then crouches down and kicks them high into the air, sending a spray of mist after them to freeze them. The kick does 10% and the freezing does 5%, for 15% total. This can be chained into an Utilt easily for a kill.

Dthrow: Chilled Slam - Childre slams his opponent into the ground, doing a nice 11% and light vertical knockback. Nothing special, unless it's used on top of ice. In that case, the foe will stick to the ice, and take 13%. Of course, the foe will not take any knockback, but this helps in setup. Why would you not simply use the pummel? Well, the freeze from this lasts longer (1.5 times as long) and renews the ice it is used on by 1 second.

Fthrow: Cold Feet- Childre throws his foe forward and blasts mist at them. But...this doesn't freeze them. Well, not entirely at least. This only freezes the foe's feet, giving them horrible traction(so much so that it makes them take much longer to build up speed when running/dashing) and increasing their trip chance tenfold(which means that they have a 10% chance to trip every time they run or turn around). This lasts for 4 seconds.

Bthrow: Violent Coating - Childre spews mist all over his foe while they're still being bitten by him, then turns around violently and lets go of his frozen enemy. When they hit the ground, the ice will break off of them....and latch onto the floor, freezing an area a Battlefield Platform wide for 6 seconds.

FINAL SMASH


Flash Freeze- When Childre activates his Final Smash, the entire stage freezes over, including foes. Foes in the air will fall to the ground, but remain frozen. Childre can pound on frozen foes, and the ice will not break, but moves will also not gain power and foes will not take knockback. The foes remain frozen for six seconds, and the ice remains on the stage for 15 seconds (in other words, after foes thaw, the stage will still be frozen for 9 more seconds).

EXTRAS


Up Taunt: Non-Maverick Form - Childre turns into his non-maverick, humanish form, seen here:




The taunt lasts for ¾ of a second.

Side Taunt: Venting - Childre concetrates, then mist pours from the small holes in his head, and his ears elongate. This taunt lasts for ¾ of a second. The mist does nothing and cannot freeze.

Down Taunt: Ice Fountain - Childre tilts his head upwards and spews a fine mist into the air above him. As the mist falls, it sparkles and shimmers, veiling Childre. The taunt lasts for one second. The mist does not affect enemies at all.

Yeah yeah, I posted a set, it's the end of the world as we know it and you feel fine, bla bla.

ALSO. All credit to Smash Daddy for the BBCoding and the header image. He also worked a little on the image for the Up Taunt.
 

Agi

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
1,120
Location
SE Washington
Childre

...dude, you really need a confidence boost. Childre is not the terrible set you seem to think it is. Anyway, I'll be treating this as if it's not a newcomer set considering that you've been lurking so long, so remember that when reading this comment.

Childre is a good example of how to do a character with buffs. He has plenty of options on how to spread his ice around, which is all fine and splendid, and what little effect it does have on him is certainly enough to work for without breaking the matchup. Yes, many of the moves are fairly simple, and the rest of them are freezing moves, but they do work rather nicely to create some basic flow: spread ice, freeze foe, do extra damage due to freezing the foe. Like I said, it's really simple, similar to Q in a way, (who, as you may have gathered, I'm not very fond of...) but he actually has more than one incredibly telegraphed move to actually land the KO, making him infinitely more useable and likeable.

The main thing that I disliked about the set was the writing style. Apart from the blatant abuse of the fraction symbols, (which is really more of a nitpick,) I found the constant use of xat smilies to be rather jarring. But yeah, it's a solid effort, especially considering it's your first set. (Yes I know I said I wouldn't say that :p) You can only go up from here, Thrice.​
 

Smash Daddy

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
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Location
K Rool Avenue
Yes, yes, it has been a long time. There will be ratings and comments on everything I missed at a later date, but for now, here's commentary on the most recent movesets.

As seems to be the theme lately, Jace is a massive step-up from the previous moveset of the same author. What was wrong with B. B. Hood is not even a sparkle in what is a fairly successful foray into playstyle by Cutter; I’m impressed by just how much of the criticism you took to heart. You weren’t even slightly jesting when you spoke about my own comment in your response to MYM’r, and by golly has it helped your skills.

What differentiates a moveset like Jace from something like Sarisa is that the magic is [basically] all ripped straight from the source – you aren’t confounding any errors you may have otherwise scooped by attempting to shoehorn in your ‘own’ ideas. At the same time, your obvious high knowledge of the Smash mechanics like tech-chasing, IASA frames and ‘automatic’ or ‘manual’ release on certain charged moves makes the set a very enlightening read. What’s most surprising for me is that, in such a short amount of time, your writing style has changed from dull and boring to mentally stimulating, which would have been my biggest complaint if we were talking about B. B. Hood.

The result of the combination here is that almost every single input is both fitting for Smash and entirely inspired by the character’s own themes and origin, making it truly fun and educational – to a point. As I suppose was also present in your last moveset, you know when to stop referencing Magic the Gathering, when to include a helpful visual aid and what is acceptable to the reader, never overstaying your welcome with factoids or silly references. It’s plain that your next step is simply making a better connection of the moves at the very first step, rather than stitching them together when you’re finished. If you can actually accomplish that, you’ll be reaching the higher echelons of making movesets.

Onto the actual conundrum that is Jace Beleren – the first thing that catches my eye are one or two interesting inputs that are well-thought out. Namely, the neutral, down and side special, all rather unique takes on the mind control or psychic ability take on a set. Specifically, I enjoyed how you were able to chain your knowledge of Smash specifications to really create a fresh character, who can manipulate parts of the metagame I could never have imagined, while, in my opinion, not going overboard and isolating casual players. Noting the release moves and ‘countering’ animation lag is actually intuitive, though it sounds complicated – it’s easily imagined in-game and I can only remember veterans like K. Rool touching upon this kind of thing in Espeon.

What both enjoys and saddens me is the lack of details on the latter half of the moveset leading up to an anything-but playstyle section, where the set falls a lot in quality. Namely, the throws seem ironically like throw-away inputs simply there to for the sake of being there, as in-character or fitting as they are. Likewise, the aerials delve somewhat into this area, mainly just being attack inputs – though they diversify Jace’s playstyle some, this is really the only purpose they serve. It’s pretty common to somewhat push aside some inputs in favour of immaculate ones like your specials, but if you would simply spread that over the entire moveset, it would be an overall better experience and outing in playstyle.

In terms of the playstyle, it’s written well, but how does it work? Like a magnet, playstyles attract negatives, or something. What Jace is all about is being a reactionary ‘venn diagram’ character who simply acts on what the opponent does, with most of his more interesting arsenal simply being debuffs and counter-type moves with high risk – it’s just a let-down here that Jace lacks an original way to punish opponents, which could have been better served in the aerials and throws, for example. Hell, much of the time you’re trapping the opponent in their own lag, reversing their actions or just plain stopping them dead in their tracks, so having a set of moves in there somewhere dedicated to simply punishing them up-close-and-personal would have made a lot of sense. In many ways, this is what pulls the set back from being great, to just being good. Still, that’s an amazing improvement over your last moveset, which I can’t stress enough how much I disliked reading. Jace, in comparison, is a really fun and educative read, so good job, Cutter.


Looking back on my time with the internet, I could never have imagined I’d end up at a contest like this, where someone would make a moveset for Q, a rather obscure, but well-loved character within the Street Fighter games. After Strike Man’s great successes, my expectations were pretty lofty for this three-hour set, but I feel it delivered on the whole – if not quite being the pinnacle, it still excels at what it sets out to do.

What I was worried about upon first reading the neutral and down special was how this played as a transition for Q from Street Fighter III into Smash, as I wasn’t sure if this was some cramming of difficult concepts for the sake of a mirage of a playstyle, or if you were actually trying to mould some bizarre play mechanics from the source here. I feel I had once gone over the character with a friend and realised he was an odd one, but that he really does have a healing and self-destruct mechanic that, to your credit, functions so similarly to this moveset still boggles the mind and I definitely give you extra credit for being so honourable to the original Street Fighter moveset, without becoming too obvious. The inclusion of pitfalls and the grab game perhaps wasn’t the de facto best way to carry the self-destruct mechanic, as it’s rather a complimentary trait for Q rather than one that flows in a clear fashion, but considering the time frame you created this in, it’s really hard to complain.

To further my rather murky point – I don’t feel that the whole pitfall and grab game is exactly in-character for Q, or that it really blends extremely well with the rest of the moveset. It’s somewhere between forced and contrived on the cheese spectrometer, but as said, it’s far better than just abandoning these areas of Q. Stalling in general makes a lot of sense for the character given the mechanics you’ve crafted over from Street Fighter, but these come across the best in your grappler-esque aerials and the brawler-esque tilts. There’s just something about the cartoony, exaggerated nature of pitfalling opponents that rubs me the wrong way as if Q’s playstyle revolved around footstooling or using items; it makes him look unnecessarily silly.

Certainly, what I can’t find flaw with here is how you capture the character, carried across well by the coupling of your great knowledge of him and your, as ever, excellent writing style, which is able to carry off non-descript detailing of rather imperceptive interactions with little misperception on part of the reader. As said, your use of Q’s primary mechanics is accurate and the inclusion of such memorable quotes as, “I am… abomination,” are done in a way that isn’t revoltingly cheesy like “taste frost.” Watching videos of Q as research, what you call the ‘messy brawler’ is carried off well by the fact you’re able to include basic moves such as his standards and taunt in such a way that they become the focus of the playstyle, with the whole pitfall thing being the only real blunder in this regard – and it’s not a big one by any means.

There is an element of moveset fatigue once reaches the latter end of the set which is present in most, if not all even slightly rushed projects, where the detail just goes off the rails and some inputs end up being little more than “this is spacing / stalling” footnotes, which was probably unavoidable. The flow is not strong with Q by any means, having a rather similar nature to Strike Man in diversifying his options through not really following any particular flowchart – if he can help it. This is made more evident in your constant references to non-chronological or out-of-place moves, referring to later moves as if the whole shebang is one big flowchart in of itself. Having an understanding of the entire set rather than binding together different pieces is seemingly the goal with the approach here, but I would estimate here you use this as a crux in which to simply write off inputs in a rather spread out fashion – this is better than Q, for example, having no aerial game, but it’s obvious that with some work, the amount of imperfections with Q would be inadmissible. And again, the throw game is, though referenced throughout the set, still weak in my eyes, simply carried off in a fashion which makes it seem less tacky.

In the end, this comment is a lot more negative than what I really think of Q. It’s a great set for sure – you captured the character beautifully, you wrote it well, you slapped on some pretty standard organisation and thought up some interesting playstyle concepts, but it definitely is rushed to a degree. However, I honestly can’t think of any better way to have pulled it off, other than just extremely boring brawler throws or cramming all important inputs into the first fifteen moves, which would be as depraved. For what you had to work with, it surpasses this rather hefty aim; giving a frigging awesome fighting game personality a decent set, which sparingly has happened.


From the start, you downplay Kamek as some kind of cliché, but somehow the same author who made Dark Samus has crafted somewhat of a representative of an entire genre of movesets. More so than Lemmy, The Kid or Cairne, this set really epitomises the essence of a trap-based projectile user, with every element of the niche fitted in with precision and expertise. The amount of depth simply contained within the moveset’s normal reading is a real eye-popper, let alone the playstyle section – this is definitely a moveset which didn’t even really need it, as your writing style and calm control over this entire character is impressive throughout and rarely difficult to imagine.

For me, the jump in writing style here compared to Pokey is similar to Jace from B. B. Hood, with high-tier explanations in terms of quality, whereby there is little room for confusion. Though I was nearly getting a little fizzled over the presence of so many similar ‘blasts’ of magic, you were actually pretty good in differentiating them enough to keep them memorable for the reader, which is tougher than you’d think whilst trying to actually write a good playstyle at the same time. The balancing act here relies entirely upon your still pen hand, making it a smooth and solid read that trumps most people’s writing styles who have been writing here for years. I wouldn’t usually stress this to this point, but Dark Samus was such a dreadful read that the magnitude of the jump here is really worth mentioning over and over; it’s more a quantum leap than a step, over the period of a couple of months!

Elaborating on what I said to you on the chatroom, Nate, the ideas behind Kamek are a lot more complex than in Pokey – the latter Mario enemy or helper is pretty easily transitioned over to Smash with his obvious, unique mechanics that are mainly all about finding that smooth change over to a fighting game. The basics are really all laid out for you – likewise with Bob-Omb, one can list out on a napkin all the primary mechanics you would have in that set, but Kamek is very different. The character has a range over a decade-or-so of video games, recent and older appearances – a whole history of material to choose from, with no real synchs bar his broomstick or flying mechanics. Thankfully, you avoided that mostly here, which I remember K. Rool overused in his version of the moveset: to be fair to his adaptation, it was meant as more of a personal bookend.

What’s mainly the impressive part of Kamek is how flowing all the interactions are, without seeming forced at all – the simple conjuring up of the stage and creating ‘level’ platforms to teleport to-and-fro isn’t an easily thought up idea, but plays extremely well and makes a lot of sense. I think my favourite of these is your use of the opponent, alongside that absolutely marvellous Shy-Guy minion inclusion, to create traps that you can then send opponents into. Of course, the big or small spell is also pretty interesting in how you can fake out opponents; interact with your minions and even yourself, again having a rather delicate touch that keeps it from being abusive. Even interactions such as with the fireball are relatively fresh, for a move that really doesn’t seem all that promising when you first introduce it.

The magic wand move that negates all start lag and has numerous interactions with other moves is used in a way that makes it essential, but also not completely necessary. Likewise, all the stage manipulation, the summoning of the Shy-Guys and the glide attack is all again dealt with in a way that doesn’t result in one obvious flowchart or starting point in Kamek’s metagame, rare for a summoner or stage manipulator. What Kamek does is take the best traits from all three genres – the fluidity of a summoner, the utter control of a stage manipulator and the balance of a [good] trap moveset and combine them to make a rather infallible finished piece.

Playstyle-wise, the set is really magnificent – everything slots together well, to create a smorgasbord of flow that allows for much unpredictability in playing a rather obtuse character like Kamek, though a couple of moves did stand out. One, that glide attack: given the precise nature of most of your descriptions up to that point, it was odd that this move simply “moves a platform up and down” and the massive range makes it seem positively overpowered, but then you throw in the hex stuff and the interaction is actually rather solid. There are some various levels of interest here, but in all it seems like too much of an easy alternative to using your up or down tilts as well as various other inputs. Indeed, the hexes themselves – being created through cancelling out of a move – seem a little too mysterious for any slightly casual player, perhaps being the one thing weighing down the journey. The second one is therefore the up aerial, being based entirely around gathering ‘dropped’ hexes, which seemed again to be really buried underneath other interactions.

In the end, though, these two very minor mistakes don’t really pull much from a very strong, very memorable moveset that is defining not only of a certain kind of sets, but also the author. I can only imagine what the future holds for you in this contest after such an impressive climb in quality.


Oh bother, and now I have to read this absolutely terrible movesets, Childre, by famous chatroom user Thrice. He had warned me about reading this abominable, disgusting piece of garbage before – that this would not just be, “good for a newcomer moveset,” but something far worse – mediocre. Oh no, the pain, that Thrice’s very first set isn’t the marvel he would have liked it to be!

Honestly, the malarkey around this set in the chatroom and in general from Thrice is utter ridiculousness, with it being perfectly fine for a very first effort. I don’t know exactly what one is to expect from a project that’s been produced by a newbie, but it certainly isn’t going to be what you want it to be – if I say it’s good, you’ll say I’m just lying to comfort you, if I say it’s bad you’ll say you knew it and there’s no way you can improve it. Seeing as you said I shouldn’t talk about the positives, here’s a big ole list of all the negatives.

For one thing, the writing style is putrid, horrible and disjointed as a read. Childre reads like eating cardboard, in that you throw so many different status effects, projectiles and completely random specialities of the character. You dishonestly state that he has a ‘special’ in his statistics, but the entire moveset is clogged with similar attributes – Childre can run faster on ice [which was the one very good idea, actually], he can buff himself to a different level of statistics better than the previous, his up special is both a recovery and a complex attack on the ground. None of it comes together in much of a meaningful way, because by the time you’re finished talking about once concept, off you go on something completely disconnected that almost makes the last one completely defunct.

Yet another huge mistake on Thrice’s part is in completely neglecting a playstyle section. No no, we don’t need a playstyle section in this mess, as there’s obviously no flowing between any of this random nonsense Thrice spat out at us – interactions like with the down smash are made completely pointless by the fact that you can just buff your way there with another special. It’s a similar problem faced in Raiden, in that you can’t have two alternative movesets in one without one feeling the more abandoned and here you don’t realise this at all, let alone face it with any real attempt to carry the set in a meaningful direction. Sure, there’s diversity, there’s unpredictability, there’s chaos – but there’s no method to it and thus Childre doesn’t come off as much more than an abusive prop or trap layer.

So I painstakingly had to carry on reading Childre until the end, my heart pounding in my chest as I feel a heart attack coming on from the pure horror of this horrible mediocre moveset – the aerials doth not grow barings! They are a mere shadow of what aerials should be! I knew Thrice well, Horatio. Now he is a mere spirit, a ghoul who doth haunt thy chatroom! Mercy me, pity thy soul who doth read the wretched CHILDRE, so terrible that I doth die here in my director’s chair! Remember me! :urg:

Seriously though, the throws and aerials do have an element of fatigue to them – I know this moveset just sat in place for a long time as you waited for someone to B code it, so it alludes me as to how you missed both a dash attach and a final smash, as well as a playstyle section. I honestly feel like, even if you just had it in mind when producing everything else, a playstyle section would have helped balance things out to a correct level. There’s just this very muddled, confused feeling to all proceedings without it, whereby I’m questioning, “does this status effect go into this one?” or, “is this mist like the other mist?”

Again, I’ll just stress I feel you would have benefitted a lot from cutting down on a lot of the crap here. You don’t need this amount of different mechanics – the ice-making one was already pretty unique, you could have spawned an entire set from that idea alone – Childre is faster on ice, but he has trouble setting it up. Your problem here is that you tried to do something more, without any kind of general idea of what that was. Still, there is promise in some of the elements presented here – you at least know how to make an interesting overarching mechanic, you picked an obscure character [though you didn’t express that well at all] and were able to think up intricate ways in which to fire different types of projectiles that would have effects in a metagame, but it’s all very ham-fisted. I know you’d like to be Warlord, but the fact is you just started, so that this moveset has a lot of flaws isn’t surprising or any mark on you as a Make Your Mover.

To answer your question in the chatroom, though – no, I don’t care if you leave or never make another moveset. I’m not some Make Your Move recruiter and your attitude about this set has been childish. Let’s just leave it at that; I do hope to see another moveset from you with your further experience and having taken all you can from the very sheepish reception, due to your pandering and threats about ‘stopping caring’ or ‘leaving’ due to negative or patronising feedback. Grow up, Thrice.

Edit: Just updated my ratings for the first time in over a month - they're situated in my signature on the left there, take a look. I suppose I should also say, I do have a story mode going on at The Workshop, which is linked to on the right of my signature - haven't said that yet in the thread.
 

BKupa666

Barnacled Boss
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KAMEK
First off, let me congratulate you for taking a high-placing character from just one contest ago, and completely revamping it in a way that is both original and enjoyable to read (not that this is difficult, considering Kamek's potential as a character). I enjoy him manipulating the stage around to his liking; it worked for Silver, and it definitely works for Kamek. While I don't necessarily agree that the moving terrain needs to be more hellish for characters, I would prefer the Shy Guys be more dangerous enemies, as jumping around occasionally and dealing damage seems unreliable during a match.

I get that Kamek can use (ingenious) move interactions to alter the Shy Guy's attack pattern, but I imagine staying defensive while still casting the spells to change their style would be much easier said than done. One more There is no question in my mind that this is your best set yet. One more minor complaint I have is that the order of moves could be rearranged so as to have shorter move descriptions. For example, if Smashes (which have Shy Guy, who has many interactions with tilts) were placed before Tilts, you could remove a paragraph or two from F-Smash detailing these interactions and place it under its corresponding tilt, which aren't too lengthy to begin with. Don't get me wrong at all; Kamek is far and away your best set so far. I'm highly tempted to place it above Rool's at the moment, simply because of your beautiful reactions. I beg you to retain these in your future sets.

CHILDRE
Because I haven't been in the chat much lately due to being on vacation, I was absent for the drama that seemingly went down (going off of Smady's comment). From what I understand, Thrice, you are under the delusion that Childre is a god-awful newcomer set that should bar you from participating in the contest. I am utterly bamboozeled as to why you feel this way. Sure, Childre isn't perfect, but what first-time sets are nowadays? Childre is proof enough that you know how to create a pretty decent playstyle (which is a bit similar to Fat Bastard's; both characters stun/freeze characters in order to build damage).

Many moves, while simplistic, add to the overall playstyle of freezing the ground, in essence harming enemies and buffing Childre, in order to simplify the rest of his game. Sure, the lack of flow and playstyle is quite a hefty negative in a set filled with such interesting concepts, but I repeat myself: this is your first set; first sets are never, ever perfect. I hope you will stick around and continue to improve; if not, I bid you farewell, but know that I am not fabricating the positives I listed in this comment.
 
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