Louisville KY s2d tournament a few times a monthly. 08/29/09

[Protein]

hey, I'm garbage at this game, you should be giving me tips for a character I don't play instead of giving oreo tips.

come on, chi, you know you wanna...

hay, hilt Ness is bad, and I don't know what I'm doing. halp.

 

[Xisin]

oreo i lied somewhat, you dont have to have tap jump on with marth theres another way to up-b out of shield.

you can set the shoulder button you do not use to shield so that it jumps, so set either L or R as jump then when you want to up b out of shield hit R/L at the same time as up b, this make you do another button press but with those controls you can have tap jump off and play marth competent.

However i think its much simplier to do it with tap jump on

 

[neji32]

no, there were pools first.

Oreo you need a new character. Fox is bad unless you really know what you're doing. Same with Pit. And wolf.

I want to main trainer. Why dont I? Because he's bad. I still side him though. My second best character. But I dont plan to win tournaments or place well with trainer because he's bad.

All im saying is i thought you would....you know get like 3rd or 4th


EDIT: @Protein ,....i just played a ness better than NessFTW. I really wish i remembered his name, but he beat my mk. He was impressive. Ness is about using Fair to destroy all aerial approaches no matter what they are. Then spamming the **** out of pk fire cause( it beats tornado (so does Fair)) if you hit with it then you can get a free 30-40% off. with dash grab Dthrow or just a charged fsmash. Use PSI magnet to slow your fall down and confuse your opponent. Dont spam up B unless they are no where near you. try to PK fire them off the ledge, if you hit its a free spike.
Try to SH PKT at the opponent and make them dodge it towards you so that when they get close to your body you hit your self and they die.....this is all i can think of. Sorry if it doesn't help.


P.S @Oreo, i think you could be a decent wolf ignoring what hilt said. I'm going to try to teach him to you next chance I get =D

 

[Protein]

don't worry about it. all that is very general stuff.

I already went and picked up some tips. honestly, I probably know what I should be doing.

actually, I do know what I should be doing. I just dont have it in my fingers yet.

Trust me, I know how to use fair. (this is probably why I hate being on the happy end of the turtle) I recently won the award for "maybe the campiest ness ever"
also, mk matchup not so much a problem.

also, I particularly liked the bit about PKT2. that's like the only thing I ever do.

 

[Delvro]

I'm getting REALLY irritated at the put-downs that people are making around here. How about we have a minimal amount of respect for our fellow smashers, and not turn noses up because we think we're better than everyone else?

On a side note, Cr4sh, I admit defeat... you're better than me (for now)... but once I get better at killing earlier, you'd better watch out!!

 

[neji32]

oh im picking up TL now as well and wolf and snake. So my characters atm are
Pikaxhu
Link
King DDD
Wolf
Toon Link
Mega Knight
Snake
oh and protein i will make mk a problem for you =p


EDIT; im about to try and work for the title "2nd best pikachu of midwest" or "Amazing pikachu that isn't anther" xD

 

[Protein]

it's not a problem cause you're never there, and I hardly have to play paladin.

MK's a problem when I'm piloting. mine sucks.

I probably should have added, I know what I should be doing, but I haven't drilled enough games that I've got it in my fingers yet. this is most matchups. there are a couple I haven't figured out yet.

also, my strat for MK was something along the lines of "be like Edrees" or "be like Dog Latin" or "be like Vicegrip"
there's logical problems in that, but hey. can you really think of a better strat than "be like Edrees?"

 

[Exceladon City]

no johns
wth is justin? he should have demolished that dude -_-
oreo step it up
stop mindlessly doing stuff and start thinking, every time i see your fox you're doing needless bs
for example in that match vs protein that you most recently put up why are you never pressing the advantage? throwing sheik = you do whatever you want. sheik hsa like 0 options after being popped up, so just bait her to do stuff...like utilting or spot dodging underneath her. instead you roll back and laser, resetting the situation
you kept rolling back and forth -> single laser. what does that accomplish? NOTHING
sdi out of zelda's usmash, mash down and side
he just kept rolling around and you rolled with him. punish those rolls, shoot a few lasers, upsmash him, SOMETHING.
he can't ftilt lock you properly below thirty, take advantage of that
why did you LET him transform? you could've easily taken protein down about 22% each time and you would've refreshed it with your weird laser habits
protein is a GARBAGE sheik, play light or me and see how bad that matchup is...but you lost. why? because you never did anything beyond rolling, lasering and using dtilt (lol what a horrible move). you always neglected critical spacing too: with sheik you will always want to be on the run, out of her range and trying to poke away...if you are dairing then dsmash to end so that she gets knocked away and you're not in ftilt range, but you're not dairing. learn your character, start THINKING actively and SPACING actively and PUNISHING actively. i used to be garbage at this game but now i'm getting much better because i'm doing these things against god kais and tyr. i used to lose to these people by 2 stock margins now it's by like 50% tops. until you start doing these things no one will respect the way you post because all you're doing is just complaining about doing ****ty in tournaments yet you're not making any active effort to improve it seems.

I'm not gonna make any johns but I'm gonna tell you my situation. When it comes to Smash Bros. I suffer from counter-productivity. I play good people out of town, just to come back and play really sh*tty kids here. Who always play FFA's and run items. I'd be better off playing CPUs to be quite honest. I don't have any extremely good people to play. You have God Kais, GUNPUNCH! and Tyr. Thus, you can continuously get better. The only good people I play are either the S2D guys, who are too far away, too busy with school or both. Out of towners and my friend Graham who is always busy. All the rest are either (A) Really bad or (B) Quit when I win using AT's so I have to sandbag or they'll quit playing. Which leaves me playing laggy online or testing kill percents in training mode. I don't have anyone to critique my skills in this game and you seem to be the only one actively doing it. I don't own this game so I can't constantly practice. For example: I'm good in Street Fighter because I always had someone better than me kicking the daylights out of me and I owned the game so I always practiced for the next encounter. I'm good in Tekken and Soul Calibur because of the same reason.

To Hilt
To me there isn't a BAD character...except for C. Falcon but that's another story. As Andy said to me at Morehead, people always rule out the X Factor: A players skill. Yeah my skills aren't up to snuff with the rest of you guys, so cut me some slack here. If I had a better atmosphere I'd be better at this game. You, Calic, 9 and Paladin, all got together and played alot. You always had people practice with and thus you got better. I don't. Don't even say Rowan's name because he's just...Rowan.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

To Hilt
To me there isn't a BAD character...except for C. Falcon but that's another story. As Andy said to me at Morehead, people always rule out the X Factor: A players skill. Yeah my skills aren't up to snuff with the rest of you guys, so cut me some slack here. If I had a better atmosphere I'd be better at this game. You, Calic, 9 and Paladin, all got together and played alot. You always had people practice with and thus you got better. I don't. Don't even say Rowan's name because he's just...Rowan.

good answer. If you want to main Fox? awesome. Paladin mains fox. He does extremely well. Took a game off overswarm. Knocked Tactical out of the tournament saturday. Dr. X has a surprisingly good pit. We've all seen Equi's Wolf. If you want to main one of these characters ask for advice! seriously! When we were at the MWCC I asked Fino for lots of advice on matchups I needed help in. We're going to be planning a smashfest soon. you should take that time to get lots of help for your character. Talk to paladin, get his input. Or, if that's not working, try out someone else. You've used marth in the past, right? Talk to Xisin. Using a character that someone you know uses, or mains, is very beneficial. Take advantage of that.

 

[clowsui]

I'm not gonna make any johns but I'm gonna tell you my situation. When it comes to Smash Bros. I suffer from counter-productivity. I play good people out of town, just to come back and play really sh*tty kids here. Who always play FFA's and run items. I'd be better off playing CPUs to be quite honest. I don't have any extremely good people to play. You have God Kais, GUNPUNCH! and Tyr. Thus, you can continuously get better. The only good people I play are either the S2D guys, who are too far away, too busy with school or both. Out of towners and my friend Graham who is always busy. All the rest are either (A) Really bad or (B) Quit when I win using AT's so I have to sandbag or they'll quit playing. Which leaves me playing laggy online or testing kill percents in training mode. I don't have anyone to critique my skills in this game and you seem to be the only one actively doing it. I don't own this game so I can't constantly practice. For example: I'm good in Street Fighter because I always had someone better than me kicking the daylights out of me and I owned the game so I always practiced for the next encounter. I'm good in Tekken and Soul Calibur because of the same reason.

play xisin
he's available almost EVERY DAY for wifi, latency will be low
wifi isn't really that bad - it improves matchup experience, but you shouldn't be relying on it at all to get REALLY good or anything
i play with tyr, e_, GK and gunpunch like once a month, maybe once every 1.5. don't make assumptions -_-

 

[wangston]

To me there isn't a BAD character...except for C. Falcon but that's another story.

Falcon isn't bad... there are just better characters.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

All im saying is i thought you would....you know get like 3rd or 4th

yeah lol. i did pretty bad.

owell :D

 

[Dark Ryu]

I will be coming to the next one of these. Anyone willing to house me?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I will be coming to the next one of these. Anyone willing to house me?

just so you know there wont be one of these until the 21st. As for housing, not sure....

 

[Ken Neth]

LOL that's a good one marco.

10darkryuwon'treallybecomings

 

[Dark Ryu]

How many people show up to these? and I would like to know if there is anyone available for housing (1 night only)

 

[wangston]

Marco hahaha. You going from Utah to KY. I'll house you for a week when I go home.

 

[UzakiuzuG]

Thats pretty cool, I might try and go. Represent the falcon xD. The only problem I have is first tourney don't want to get embarrassmed lol. So I might be up there plus I need money =(. Look for a lighskinned fellow. xD. See you there if I go.

 

[clowsui]

Thats pretty cool, I might try and go. Represent the falcon xD. The only problem I have is first tourney don't want to get embarrassmed lol. So I might be up there plus I need money =(. Look for a lighskinned fellow. xD. See you there if I go.

wow dude
stop talking
i hosted two tournies and i got last place in both of them, coincidentally
get *****.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Thats pretty cool, I might try and go. Represent the falcon xD. The only problem I have is first tourney don't want to get embarrassmed lol. So I might be up there plus I need money =(. Look for a lighskinned fellow. xD. See you there if I go.

definitely show up man! :D

and dont worry about embarrassing yourself. First tournament I went to here I got last place. But I got better. Now I rarely get worse than 2nd or 3rd at S2D.

I'll see you there!

 

[UzakiuzuG]

Alright I'll see what I can do. xD Im going to be the noob their so you should easily be able to spot me lol.

 

[Xisin]

I might make the rare show at S2D not the next tournament but the one after, depends on eric really, so ya rowan you better be there for that one!

 

[*PALADIN*]

definitely show up man! :D

and dont worry about embarrassing yourself. First tournament I went to here I got last place. But I got better. Now I rarely get worse than 2nd or 3rd at S2D.

I'll see you there!

whatever man you allways get last place man dont lie, man how can you tell someone that get real! sorry people he just having one of those days....


NAHHH just kiddin.

yeah man just come when ever you can we like to have more people at S2D

 

[neji32]

I'm not gonna make any johns but I'm gonna tell you my situation. When it comes to Smash Bros. I suffer from counter-productivity. I play good people out of town, just to come back and play really sh*tty kids here. Who always play FFA's and run items. I'd be better off playing CPUs to be quite honest. I don't have any extremely good people to play. You have God Kais, GUNPUNCH! and Tyr. Thus, you can continuously get better. The only good people I play are either the S2D guys, who are too far away, too busy with school or both. Out of towners and my friend Graham who is always busy. All the rest are either (A) Really bad or (B) Quit when I win using AT's so I have to sandbag or they'll quit playing. Which leaves me playing laggy online or testing kill percents in training mode. I don't have anyone to critique my skills in this game and you seem to be the only one actively doing it. I don't own this game so I can't constantly practice. For example: I'm good in Street Fighter because I always had someone better than me kicking the daylights out of me and I owned the game so I always practiced for the next encounter. I'm good in Tekken and Soul Calibur because of the same reason.

To Hilt
To me there isn't a BAD character...except for C. Falcon but that's another story. As Andy said to me at Morehead, people always rule out the X Factor: A players skill. Yeah my skills aren't up to snuff with the rest of you guys, so cut me some slack here. If I had a better atmosphere I'd be better at this game. You, Calic, 9 and Paladin, all got together and played alot. You always had people practice with and thus you got better. I don't. Don't even say Rowan's name because he's just...Rowan.

Play wifi. Play wifi alot. Honestly where i live there is no one good at smash.... and although light lives like 20 or 5 min away from me(depending if hes at his mom or dads) I cant go to his house often at all cause his dad is mean and it takes an hour to walk ti his moms (no car =/) And when i do get there we usually do other stuff. I play wifi all the time. I play wifi 88% of all my brawls. Idc wat anyone says about wifi being laggy or is unreliable. Wifi helps. It gets you accoustomed to character match ups and strategies and allows you to get better with your character. Im not saying im the best(im hardly good if that) but i know im decent and its because online. Take advantage of it seriously.

I'm online pretty much ALL the time so if you need someone to practice against 4811-9876-6121

P.S THIS JUST IN PIKACHU HAS A 0-DEATH NON-GRAB RELEASE ON FALCO LAMBARDI AND WARIO!!!!

 

[wangston]

P.S THIS JUST IN PIKACHU HAS A 0-DEATH NON-GRAB RELEASE ON FALCO LAMBARDI AND WARIO!!!!

zomg I hope I don't ever get grabbed on the ledge of a platform with pika's back facing the ledge.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

zomg I hope I don't ever get grabbed on the ledge of a platform with pika's back facing the ledge.

lmao


PIKA'S BROKEN!!
BAN THE INFINITE!!!

 

[clowsui]

Play wifi. Play wifi alot. Honestly where i live there is no one good at smash.... and although light lives like 20 or 5 min away from me(depending if hes at his mom or dads) I cant go to his house often at all cause his dad is mean and it takes an hour to walk ti his moms (no car =/) And when i do get there we usually do other stuff. I play wifi all the time. I play wifi 88% of all my brawls. Idc wat anyone says about wifi being laggy or is unreliable. Wifi helps. It gets you accoustomed to character match ups and strategies and allows you to get better with your character. Im not saying im the best(im hardly good if that) but i know im decent and its because online. Take advantage of it seriously.

I'm online pretty much ALL the time so if you need someone to practice against 4811-9876-6121

P.S THIS JUST IN PIKACHU HAS A 0-DEATH NON-GRAB RELEASE ON FALCO LAMBARDI AND WARIO!!!!

spec do you have any idea how hard that is to set up + how situational it is?

you have to be on the exact edge...which you basically will never be on/falco will never be on unless that falco is a ******. 99% of the time you have better options than to try and grab by jumping on an exact edge of a platform -___-;

also this just means that i shoot lasers and run away more often =D

 

[CR4SH]

How about brinstar or norfair when the lava rises? MMMM??

Pika and luigi now have the same CP stages.

 

[neji32]

spec do you have any idea how hard that is to set up + how situational it is?

you have to be on the exact edge...which you basically will never be on/falco will never be on unless that falco is a ******. 99% of the time you have better options than to try and grab by jumping on an exact edge of a platform -___-;

also this just means that i shoot lasers and run away more often =D

lmao


PIKA'S BROKEN!!
BAN THE INFINITE!!!

zomg I hope I don't ever get grabbed on the ledge of a platform with pika's back facing the ledge.

seems like you guys dont know pika like i thought you did, that set up is solely for ice climbers and wario the falco one is much different, easier to set up but harder to do, when i learn how to do it perfectly i will make vids. The set up for it though is my fthrow cg. So get grab ANYWHERE and you done. The falco one doesnt have to be on a platform or on any level ;D

 

[Joshkip]

hey when is the next tourney?

 

[neji32]

february 21st

 

[Exceladon City]

play xisin
he's available almost EVERY DAY for wifi, latency will be low
wifi isn't really that bad - it improves matchup experience, but you shouldn't be relying on it at all to get REALLY good or anything
i play with tyr, e_, GK and gunpunch like once a month, maybe once every 1.5. don't make assumptions -_-

That's 9 people that are epic at this game. Thus, that once a month battling you do against them is way more practice than what I get in 2-3 months.

 

[Overswarm]

Oreo...

If you want to get better, I'll give you three steps for your situation.

Step 1: Drop your sucky character

Fox sucks. I was able to beat Paladin's fox on autopilot with my MK, beat him with a rusty ROB, beat him with a kirby that hadn't been used in tournament before, etc., etc... and Paladin has been practicing with Fox. Fox has offensive potential, but defensively he sucks and anyone that plays patiently will take him out with no effort. You know that your skill level is low in smash. Why do you pick a character that hurts your chances?

Pick up a new one. Snake, MK, D3, Kirby, Falco... they all do well. Look at the tier list and figure it out.

Step 2: Learn the new character

Get comfortable with them. Play computers if you have to. Learn % where people die, learn grab combos, learn strings, learn good OoS punishments, so on so on. Get comfortable with that character.

Step 3: Play other people

Play online if you can't play anyone in person. If you can play people in person but they're really bad, make it your goal to 3 stock them every time. When that is easy, make it your goal not to get hit. When that is easy, you'll definitely be at another level.

 

[UzakiuzuG]

Oreo...

If you want to get better, I'll give you three steps for your situation.

Step 1: Drop your sucky character

Fox sucks. I was able to beat Paladin's fox on autopilot with my MK, beat him with a rusty ROB, beat him with a kirby that hadn't been used in tournament before, etc., etc... and Paladin has been practicing with Fox. Fox has offensive potential, but defensively he sucks and anyone that plays patiently will take him out with no effort. You know that your skill level is low in smash. Why do you pick a character that hurts your chances?

Pick up a new one. Snake, MK, D3, Kirby, Falco... they all do well. Look at the tier list and figure it out.

Step 2: Learn the new character

Get comfortable with them. Play computers if you have to. Learn % where people die, learn grab combos, learn strings, learn good OoS punishments, so on so on. Get comfortable with that character.

Step 3: Play other people

Play online if you can't play anyone in person. If you can play people in person but they're really bad, make it your goal to 3 stock them every time. When that is easy, make it your goal not to get hit. <---That goal seems hard as hell.
When that is easy, you'll definitely be at another level.

The problem with that is, I don't want to be like everyone else using snake D3 and all the other top tiers.(The tier for queer thing for Falcon is false even though he is Falcon) What fun is that? When your a low tier you feel like you have accomplished something. I mean I use the lowest guy in the game. Now my chances are like 5% of winning for so many reasons first tourney, worst in the game horrible priority, lag smashes and all that good stuff but I mean there is a possiblity. Wouldn't you want to feel like you achieved something? By the way what do you win? Recogniztion, will people record it and put it on Youtube and stuff? Thats just me, thats how what I feel about things. >> It's all about the winning though isn't it. Be an outcast

 

[Exceladon City]

Oreo...

If you want to get better, I'll give you three steps for your situation.

Step 1: Drop your sucky character

Fox sucks. I was able to beat Paladin's fox on autopilot with my MK, beat him with a rusty ROB, beat him with a kirby that hadn't been used in tournament before, etc., etc... and Paladin has been practicing with Fox. Fox has offensive potential, but defensively he sucks and anyone that plays patiently will take him out with no effort. You know that your skill level is low in smash. Why do you pick a character that hurts your chances?

Pick up a new one. Snake, MK, D3, Kirby, Falco... they all do well. Look at the tier list and figure it out.

Step 2: Learn the new character

Get comfortable with them. Play computers if you have to. Learn % where people die, learn grab combos, learn strings, learn good OoS punishments, so on so on. Get comfortable with that character.

Step 3: Play other people

Play online if you can't play anyone in person. If you can play people in person but they're really bad, make it your goal to 3 stock them every time. When that is easy, make it your goal not to get hit. When that is easy, you'll definitely be at another level.

Well I occasionally play Falco. I guess I could use him as main. I'll still use Fox regardless because he's one of my favorites. It doesn't matter to me what anyone says otherwise about a character being good or bad. I have I guess a what you would call a "scrub" mentality because I pick characters that I like regardless of tier placement. Even though I know there will ALWAYS be an MK lurking around the corner looking to **** everything with priority. A players skill is a factor in a game. Because even if someone where to pick an amazing character that character will still lose if that person doesn't have enough skill to play that character. MK may be broken as f*ck but he's as good as useless if that person doesn't know how to use him. Elitism doesn't work on me. My friends play Pokemon competitively and they run sweepers for days and lol at anything that doesn't come close to their Pokemon, and I'll still run a Spinda even if it's base stats are 60. On another note, I don't own a Wii. So online is almost not an option. I'd much rather not play horrible kids in Smash, they are more predictable than CPU opponents.

 

[Mister Eric]

OS has points I agree and disagree with.
If you go into the game thinking it's all character based then that just kills the game. Then again, some matchups are better than others.
There is always an X factor that represents the player's skill.
Go with that. If you believe in Fox Mccloud, play Fox.
People like Anther could have easily went by the tier list, but I don't see him switching to a higher tier character to win more money. He's doing his part as it is, and you can continue doing yours; striving to get better.
Now do know that his isn't Melee. There aren't glitches that help all the characters balance out. But that's how Smash was meant to be in the first place, without the depth of gamebreaking glitches.

Next time a MK stares you in the face, what do you say?
"COME ON!"


I play Pansy R.O.B. for christ sakes....

 

[Exceladon City]

OS has points I agree and disagree with.
If you go into the game thinking it's all character based then that just kills the game. Then again, some matchups are better than others.
There is always an X factor that represents the player's skill.
Go with that. If you believe in Fox Mccloud, play Fox.
People like Anther could have easily went by the tier list, but I don't see him switching to a higher tier character to win more money. He's doing his part as it is, and you can continue doing yours; striving to get better.
Now do know that his isn't Melee. There aren't glitches that help all the characters balance out. But that's how Smash was meant to be in the first place, without the depth of gamebreaking glitches.

Next time a MK stares you in the face, what do you say?
"COME ON!"


I play Pansy R.O.B. for christ sakes....

R.O.B is a beast though. So it doesn't matter what color you use. BTW if you sandbagged in our match, don't do it. I like people to play at their full potential at all times. Whether it be Smash, Soul Calibur, KOF, Street Fighter or Tekken.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

as i said in the past, I wanted to main trainer from the moment he was announced on the dojo. I still side him. Not too seriously though >.> there really isnt a matchup he helps me in that olimar cant take care of lol. but i didnt drop him. I still study him, do research, and hope that sooner or later he may rise up on the list. If he doesnt? owell. I still play him. If he does? awesome.

But expecting to do well in tournaments with a character that isnt actually good isnt going to work UNLESS you're significantly good at the game. You still have improving to do oreo. You need more experience. I dropped trainer after realizing he was bad, and didnt pick him back up until I was better at the game and could apply what I learned from other characters to him.

and it's the same for others. Wangston and calic side falcon. Rowan also sides trainer. Paladin plays fox. Light sides sheik. They didnt go hardcore into these characters until they were already really good at the game.

 

[Exceladon City]

as i said in the past, I wanted to main trainer from the moment he was announced on the dojo. I still side him. Not too seriously though >.> there really isnt a matchup he helps me in that olimar cant take care of lol. but i didnt drop him. I still study him, do research, and hope that sooner or later he may rise up on the list. If he doesnt? owell. I still play him. If he does? awesome.

But expecting to do well in tournaments with a character that isnt actually good isnt going to work UNLESS you're significantly good at the game. You still have improving to do oreo. You need more experience. I dropped trainer after realizing he was bad, and didnt pick him back up until I was better at the game and could apply what I learned from other characters to him.

and it's the same for others. Wangston and calic side falcon. Rowan also sides trainer. Paladin plays fox. Light sides sheik. They didnt go hardcore into these characters until they were already really good at the game.

Well I never had a chance to get really good because I never had the money to purchase a wii or this game. I would've had this game if I hadn't gotten an overdraft fee on my debit card. So getting significantly good at this game will take forever. It sucks that I have to be the weakest link at S2D.

 

[Kel]

Also note that Pikachu is a LOT better than the general population gives him credit for. The tier list is made in the SBR and is an average of everyone's opinion on where a character stands in the rankings. The EC, WC, and South haven't seen Anther's Pikachu, therefore they still have it in their head that the character is bad. This goes along with that 'hidden potential' stuff that Hilt is talking about. Every once in a while, someone will bust out a low tier and give the character a new feeling (IE BUM with DK in late Melee). It's just a lot more difficult to do so for a couple reasons: one, being that high tier characters are generally EASIER to do well with than others. That is to say that you have a less likelyhood of messing up with a high tier over a low tier. And two is that you have to pretty much create the low tier's play style by yourself. There are no other high play levels of your low tier because pros use high tiers, so you're on your own figuring out how to make that character work.

I used Fox for a really long time. I innovated a lot of stuff with the character (no matter what the fox boards might say). I also innovated a lot of my own stuff with Marth, Peach and Sonic, but in the end Metaknight was just a lot easier for me to use, so I did. you don't HAVE to use MK exactly, but using Snake, Dedede, falco, Marth, GAW, etc. will definitely speed things up for you.

Good luck.