KTAR 5 Results - 5/21/11 - 116 Entrants!!

[Bloodcross]

So....

you're all still arguing?

 

[Robfox]

Only thing M2K was trying to split was some cheeks, Inui already in there tho.

U had said alot of **** headed ****
but this by far was the most ****ed up

 

[-Remix-]

Lol @ this thread being alive.

I'm telling you, direct it to mah avi ;D

 

[ANTi_]

Lol Heero brings up a good point, He forfeited to someone also but didn't get carded.

I knew it was because of the fact we're M2K/Anti/ADHD.

 

[ADHD]

This community is becoming pretty biased against top players.

I noticed Supermodelfromparis, (if that is your real name) that every time an issue is brought up about top players (in specific me) you will always go with the opposing side.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

This community is becoming pretty biased against top players.

I noticed Supermodelfromparis, (if that is your real name) that every time an issue is brought up about top players (in specific me) you will always go with the opposing side.

Nah get over yourself

 

[CT Chia]

its not that you are top players

can ppl forfeit? well yea. its intentional forfeiting when ppl do it ith alternate motives that end up fixing the bracket which is wrong

pierce forfeited from an early round of losers... so?
forfeiting to send certain ppl to losers that u would rather not fight... terrible lol

nothing is concrete, its all dependent on various situations, facts at hand, etc

want to feel like we arent biased vs u? (we arent)... just dont split

 

[ADHD]

Nah get over yourself

No, I can list MULTIPLE cases when BPC and friends will always debate against me in non-stage subjects.

 

[CT Chia]

let them have their opinion and dont be bothered by it lol

add em to ur ignore list

 

[-Remix-]

let them have their opinion and dont be bothered by it lol

add em to ur ignore list

That'll really hit them in the heart ;D

as expected.

 

[Tesh]

Is ADHD saying that someone else forfeited and wasn't punished? Or is he saying that someone else forfeited and ADMITTED publicly to collusion and intentional bracket manipulation.

This is actually a very good thing. Maybe once players like M2K and ADHD miss out on more HUGE pot prizes like MLG Dallas, they will behave a bit better. MLG had the right idea, no one wants to travel across the country to a tournament and see THAT happen at the top.

 

[ANTi_]

its not that you are top players

can ppl forfeit? well yea. its intentional forfeiting when ppl do it ith alternate motives that end up fixing the bracket which is wrong

pierce forfeited from an early round of losers... so?
forfeiting to send certain ppl to losers that u would rather not fight... terrible lol

nothing is concrete, its all dependent on various situations, facts at hand, etc

want to feel like we arent biased vs u? (we arent)... just dont split

Chibo are you speaking out of your *** again?

And does the situation really matter where we forfeited in?

if Intentional forfeiting is banned then Pierce/Heero also did it.

Get your biased *** out of here.

 

[Keitaro]

@ Tant: You speak as if everyone in the BBRRC has the same mindset on things. I was against 2 of the 3 most controversial things in the first Unity ruleset and so was Bizkit. Also, its not like I came into the backroom and was like "GIVE ANTI/M2K/ADHD THEM CARDS YO!!". I was originally against it.

In other words, we all think different, which is one of the main reasons I wanted to be back there. I already saw the BBR do some things that the majority of the smash community looked upon as wtf, so I am soley in the BBRRC to make sure things like that don't happen to this comittee while giving in my insightful opinions.

K. So here is my take on it.

To say that "Rules must be followed" In this case is irrelevant, mainly because if this needed to happen, the other things that happened during the event, that were overruled by the discretion of the TO(s), needed to happen as well. Normally, I would agree with you, since it states that it WILL be punished if not followed, but there are two things that lead me to disagree with the choice that was made.

My first reason being that it was brought up to you before it was done. People think that forfeiting is bracket manipulation, when it really isn't. I have been going to events, and helping hosting events, as well as hosting my own events for a while. This is not just in smash, but attending halo, helping host halo, and various other events. You can look at forfeiting in multiple ways: A strategic way to advance in bracket, due to your opponent being of a higher difficulty, not wanting to play the person, etc. However way you want to look at it, there is one ultimate flaw in the ruling of forfeiting which is: You can't force a player to play against the person if they do not want to. The punishment of forfeiting is inbeded within the forfeit, which is a game loss, and a higher risk of being dropped out of a tournament. \

I've seen a couple times where player1 would forfeit to player2 in winners because player1 had a better chance at beating a player in losers bracket. Wouldn't that be bracket manipulation?

Lol Heero brings up a good point, He forfeited to someone also but didn't get carded.

I knew it was because of the fact we're M2K/Anti/ADHD.

Are you serious about this?? I'll start off by saying I had no idea of anyone else forfeiting at this tournament besides M2K. Not only that, but an average player forfeiting in earlier rounds is much less problematic than the 1st/2nd best player in the world forfeiting in winners semis, especially since M2K forfeited when already dealing with placings within the money.

Regardless, if Pierce and Heero did forfeit, I will bring to the BBRRC now to discuss early forfeiting again. I'm more for punishment of players splitting/forfeiting once they are in the money placements (usually top 5 but top 8 for this tourney.)

 

[falco03]

forfeiting should be allowed

people are so soft its annoying.

if your good it doesnt matter if you forfeit or not




spliting in grands and stuff might not be acceptable but forfeiting should be. why does it matter if you lose

 

[LLDL]

I've seen a couple times where player1 would forfeit to player2 in winners because player1 had a better chance at beating a player in losers bracket. Wouldn't that be bracket manipulation?

If that is the case, then one can only assume that player1 would be sent to losers by player2 anyway. I don't agree with forfeiting ever, but I wouldn't call it bracket manipulation unless they are top players bar none. I'm not clear on the details of what went on here, but the forfeiting and stuff that goes on locally is usually just due to cowardliness or fatigue lol. But yeah, I wouldn't categorize all forfeiting as bracket manipulation.

forfeiting should be allowed

people are so soft its annoying.

if your good it doesnt matter if you forfeit or not




spliting in grands and stuff might not be acceptable but forfeiting should be. why does it matter if you lose

This is where I disagree. Competent tournament organizers put effort in to seeding players by reputation and with pool results. If a top level player decides that he needs to have a lunch break and forfeits to his round 1 opponent, he is throwing the bracket out of whack. There are many players that will be knocked out of the bracket prior to when they were supposed to be because they have to fight the hardest opponent where they might have someone that they could be evenly matched with. Now if it is a true upset in the bracket, that is a different story. Then they will juts have to deal with it. But you have to take into account things like that, those acts of selfishness are definitely bracket manipulation.

 

[Keitaro]

If that is the case, then one can only player1 would be sent to losers by player2 anyway. I don't agree with forfeiting ever, but I wouldn't call it bracket manipulation unless they are top players bar none. I'm not clear on the details of what went on here, but the forfeiting and stuff that goes on locally is usually just due to cowardliness or fatigue lol. But yeah, I wouldn't categorize all forfeiting as bracket manipulation.

My mindset on this is nearly equal.

 

[ANTi_]

@Keitaro - So just because they forfeited earlier the judgment is different? that's stupid as ****.

So if i forfeited round 1 winners and played through losers, that's still bracket manipulation.

You're being biased against the top players bro, Forfeiting is forfeiting you can't alter your judgment on it based on where it was in bracket... wtf?

 

[Divinokage]

I guess it's because they don't want lower skilled players to lose that quickly in brackets.. lol. But I don't get the mindset behind that.

 

[falco03]

^^^^my mindset on that is nearly equal

 

[ANTi_]

He's basing his judgment off of it being more "problematic" rule breaking is rule breaking.

 

[AlphaZealot]

The first players to be infracted and receive a Yellow Card under the already established authority of the Unity Ruleset, Conduct Rule #5, in conjunction with the newly created Infraction System (category: Bracket Manipulation), are Mew2King, ADHD, and Anti. This is due to their actions at this weekends tournament-KTAR5, where the players agreed to a split the money allocated for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place, respectively. This has been confirmed by Tournament Organizer Keitaro. This Yellow Card will be in effect for a period of 6 months, ending Monday, November 21st, 2011.

Intentional forfeiting, match fixing, splitting, and any other forms of bracket manipulation are not allowed and punishable by the TO.

But, MOST IMPORTANTLY:

The issue directly at hand is splitting, as it has caused what should be high profile, amazing matches, to instead become a battle of players not trying their hardest, using secondaries, or worse, playing "reverse mains" and also forfeiting. This, because the players have chosen, before playing, how to divy up the winnings of the tournament. This hurts the image of the individual tournament and of the overall Smash community, and this behavior will no longer be tolerated.

Learn to read people. The "forfeiting" was just a subset of the splitting issue. And, even if it were just for forfeiting (it definitely is not, not even close), you would have to have had malice attached to it (aka bracket manipulation). So, are you saying that Pierce and Heero intentionally manipulated the brackets? All of these things are handled on a case by case basis, and if you want to make an argument for them, go ahead, but here is the kicker between your situation and theirs: they did not split the pot. Here is the kicker between their forfeit's and M2Ks: M2K FORFEITED TO THE TWO PLAYERS HE SPLIT WITH. However, this Yellow card is by and large about SPLITTING, not about forfeiting.

Finally, it is just a yellow card, a warning. Don't do it again. Simple as that. If this same situation occurs in the future it could get people an automatic Red Card, but since this is the initial role out of the system there was some holding back.

 

[ANTi_]

But we are talking about "Intentional forfeiting"

This isn't a "Learn to read" situation idiot.

 

[AlphaZealot]

You are still missing it. You split, its getting punished as determined by the TO. That is the main reason you are receiving a yellow card.

Forfeiting has very little to do with the situation. However, here is the important part:
"Punishable by the TO"
-the reason that is intentionally written like that is so that it can be judged on a case by case basis. You want anyone, anytime they forfeit to get a yellow card? That would be stupid, and you know it would be stupid. The rule is written so that the TO can make a judgement call on whether the forfeit was for the purpose, of say, giving someone else an easier bracket, or, say, because someone's mom had to come pick them up from a tournament early.

Heck, we even talked about not specifically outlawing forfeiting and making a mandatory rule about it before we released this system because Xyro pointed out he sometimes just forfeits to matches he knows he is gonna lose so he can get back to running the tournament and not waste peoples time.

 

[CT Chia]

Intentional Forfeiting as in forfeiting with outside intentions, such as to give yourself an easier bracket, help others out, etc. There's a reason why it doesn't just say "forfeiting"

What if someone's ride is leaving the venue and they gotta go? Yellow card? lol

Come on guys you know Heero and Pierce don't deserve infractions for what they did
I don't even think Pierce knew who his opponent was when he forfeited
idk the situations around heero personally, i didnt see it happen at the venue (i wasnt even an official TO though lol)

look at the reasons for the yellow card, it's all about the splitting. the m2k forfeiting wasn't even a main focus about it. was it shifty as hell? yea (forfeiting to the 2 ppl u split with). however at least i personally understand the possibility of outside influences with the girlfriend situation

and last but not least
come on guys, it's just the yellow cards. it's to get you guys to stop. in reality you aren't even in any real trouble - you only are if you continue to do it.
if you guys are annoyed by all this drama, a simple sry won't do it again and dropping everything makes all of it go away

 

[-Remix-]

EDIT: Ignore this.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Remix:

The issue directly at hand is splitting, as it has caused what should be high profile, amazing matches, to instead become a battle of players not trying their hardest, using secondaries, or worse, playing "reverse mains" and also forfeiting. This, because the players have chosen, before playing, how to divy up the winnings of the tournament. This hurts the image of the individual tournament and of the overall Smash community, and this behavior will no longer be tolerated.

That is from the announcement that has been live now for over a day now. Forfeiting is mentioned in the same vein as "reverse mains" so it is clearly only a sub-issue when it came to this ruling.

 

[ANTi_]

You shouldn't have even brought up reverse mains because i've been practicing Diddy as a secondary.
http://allisbrawl.com/ladder/history.aspx?id=65309

And ADHD has been practicing MK for a while now.

It's just ironic that the characters are each others mains. We both used our secondary characters and played.

Don't stretch stuff plz.

 

[AlphaZealot]

There is not situation really in the Diddy v MK MU that would ever cause both players who main those characters to switch to the opposite. Hands down ADHD would beat you in the Diddy ditto and you would beat him in the MK ditto. You are in fact stretching things on that one. Again though, it is all just another symptom of the splitting issue.

 

[ANTi_]

There is not situation really in the Diddy v MK MU that would ever cause both players who main those characters to switch to the opposite. Hands down ADHD would beat you in the Diddy ditto and you would beat him in the MK ditto. You are in fact stretching things on that one. Again though, it is all just another symptom of the splitting issue.

Hands down?

ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Dude you dont know **** about our scene, don't speak as if you are one of our players and have seen my Diddy before.

 

[Eddie G]

Hmm...aside from Mango, I don't recall any (or at least many) of the Melee greats switching to secondaries against their toughest peer competition in Grand Finals. Ken used Marth, like, all the time save for a few instances where he'd use his Fox. I don't know, you guys can obviously do what you want, but ehhh... >.>;

 

[ANTi_]

Hmm...aside from Mango, I don't recall any (or at least many) of the Melee greats switching to secondaries against their toughest peer competition in Grand Finals. Ken used Marth, like, all the time save for a few instances where he'd use his Fox. I don't know, you guys can obviously do what you want, but ehhh... >.>;

I guess Armada sandbagged Hbox because he went Toon Link on Hbox's main...

 

[wWw Dazwa]

He also tried to win and didn't split his winnings with Hbox.

 

[Eddie G]

I guess Armada sandbagged Hbox because he went Toon Link on Hbox's main...

I also don't remember that being GRAND FINALS, and Armada's Young Link/strategy not being a watered down version of what the other player can do, but rather...a legitimate attempt at surprising HBox in order to take a win. It's totally different than two people just playing each other's mains against each other. That's some **** people usually do in friendlies or MMs at the most bro, straight up.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Hands down?

ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Dude you dont know **** about our scene, don't speak as if you are one of our players and have seen my Diddy before.

I would like to see you two do the diddy ditto, just because it would be an entertaining match, but then youd probably just forfeit the match and sandbag with your mk or something.

 

[ANTi_]

He also tried to win and didn't split his winnings with Hbox.

Oh so i didn't try to win Dazwa?

Im glad that you know what goes on in my mind when i play brawl!

 

[CT Chia]

you guys can try to make all the excuses or what ifs you can and compare it to other things

but what it still comes down to is that you guys split

its as simple as that

are we going to ban you for not going your character? no. but were going to investigate any potential foul play. like when seibrik went gdorf vs dtorr in pound 5 pools to make him tie with me. did he go gdorf cause he was legit trying to beat him? no, he was throwing the match to him

 

[VideoKidHEERO]

Lol Heero brings up a good point, He forfeited to someone also but didn't get carded.

I won't get a yellow card because I'm better than Cable and Pierce.

Sugar coating picking on top palyers by calling it "situational"

Regardless, if Pierce and Heero did forfeit, I will bring to the BBRRC now to discuss early forfeiting again. I'm more for punishment of players splitting/forfeiting once they are in the money placements (usually top 5 but top 8 for this tourney.)

Top player bias...

Some ol' bull****.

More bull****.

Gimme a yellow card.
Shoutouts to Mr. Stalin Jr. aka AZ.

Making Smash interesting on a week to week basis.

Edit: Also, just to let you know, I forfeited to Atomsk just to I could take out Bio out of tournament.
How's that for "bracket manipulation"

 

[falco03]

alpha your wrong. no offense antis diddy is better than yours and is almost on the same level as whyyat



ask m2k or me his diddy would go even with whyatt as for whyatts mk i have never seen it

 

[Eddie G]

Oh so i didn't try to win Dazwa?

Im glad that you know what goes on in my mind when i play brawl!

Why don't you guys show it then?

Preaching idgaf like it's a national anthem every time someone bugs you about splitting, picking reverse mains, etc. really kind of speaks for itself. Yeah people don't know what goes on in your mind but that's kind of a dumb point to bring up since no one ever knows what goes on in anyone's mind. People usually go by body language, words said, and choices made; we're only human and that's all we can do. What vibe do you think you've been giving off when taking all of that into account, honestly?

 

[falco03]

where are vids at wtf

this is like a thread full of *****ingg