Kirby MetaGame discussion

[MyCurse4Life]

lol Kirby is awesome

 

[A1lion835]

^You're probably gonna get in trouble for spam.

Um, @ Asdioh, I didn't know about the way you mentioned, but if you're holding an item, dash, jump, and then immediately c-stick up, down, left, or right, you'll slide and throw the item. I'm not sure about the down thing, but I'm pretty sure it's a yes (I've only done this with bombs).

 

[fromundaman]

The goodness of AC SH fair, this is the most amazing thing vs everybody except short people. Nice shield pressure and no landing lag upon landing so if they try to shield grab you can spot dodge roll etc and that's if you don't space fully (if you space it there's no way they could possibly get you). And it combos really well. AC SH fair > dtilt is amazing, at low %'s it's guaranteed and sets up for so much more **** especially if it trips them.

As awesome as that is, know that some chars can in fact shieldgrab it (possibly all, I don't know. I just know MK can), especially if they perfect shield at least one hit.

Um, @ Asdioh, I didn't know about the way you mentioned, but if you're holding an item, dash, jump, and then immediately c-stick up, down, left, or right, you'll slide and throw the item. I'm not sure about the down thing, but I'm pretty sure it's a yes (I've only done this with bombs).

Does that work with every character? If so, then ****it why didn't I know about this! *rushes off to Link* (You thought I was thinking of Diddy, didn't you? **** nanners, give me bombs! WATER PROOF BOMBS!!!)

Also, this kind of belongs more in this thread:

Some ways to bait attacks/approaches:
-run towards, then away (mixing it up with DAs from time to time so they don't see it coming).
-random SHs, and some SHs towards them, with a AD'd SH back (mixing in some BAirs to keep them guessing).
-Running shieldgrabs (I'm not sure if wat I mean is what Gonzo means or not... I just run at them, shield, then grab though I'm always holding the same direction (not sure if that changes anything).).
-Random FFed Nairs (ACed) aimed at nothing (Doesn't work against most people, but some don't seem to know it ACs, or forget, and run straight into the next attack.).
-Random FC (people tend to run at you after shielding the shockwave, just make sure you're far enough away that you aren't giving away free damage.).
-Random Inhales (Bad idea, but it sometimes work. Inhale to make them approach, then stop as they come and hurt them.).

 

[~Gonzo~]

inhale is by far the best move in a Kirby ditto, Kirby's range just can't compare with the range of effect of his inhale

 

[Yoshi-Kirby]

Kirby is at his best with his throws, mindgames, tilts, multiple jumps, and edgeguarding skills. His multiple jumps also help him improve all of those traits. Kirby is pretty much a well-rounded character.

 

[-Cross-]

lol Asidoh I said against tall people. Against short people like MK and G&W it's just stupid since it won't be immediate shield pressure and they can punish quite easily. Also most things if PS'd can be shield grabbed so I still say SH AC fair is one of the sexiest moves Kirby has imo. ^_^

Also I don't like the fact that your list was made mostly of random (insert move) but there really is no way to explain it any better than that is there? Oh. and you forgot to add your sig in ways to bait attacks. XD

 

[~Gonzo~]

not sur eif i posted it here, but this does seem the right place to. Kirby can do a running grab out of shield, if ur running u press shield and simultaneously press grab. U'll c ur shields flash and then Kirby will do a running grab. The reason this is helpful is that characters like Marth can't hide behind well spaced aerails anymore as long as when shield u get the power shield. The distance is easily made up by the running grab range.

 

[Asdioh]

lol Asidoh I said against tall people.

Not only did you mean Fromundaman instead of me, but you spelled my name in THAT way T_T
*adds -Cross- to 'the list'*


Anyway, bumping because this needs YET MORE discussion. Kirby boards have been spammed with crap lately.

This isn't exactly something that will advance Kirby's metagame (lol, it probably lowers it) but it is good to know:
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Characters and moves that can immediately hit Kirby after he Inhales (B) and Copies (down or B again)

Green: I know this works.
Cyan: I think it might work.
Red: Probably doesn't work, it's just a guess.

Bowser: Up B

Captain Falcon: Down B (Falcon Kick)

Diddy Kong: Up B

Donkey Kong: Up B/Side B

Falco: Up B

Fox: Down B (Reflector) / Up B

Game and Watch: Down Air / Up B

Ganondorf: Down B (Warlock Kick)

Ice Climbers: Down Air / Side B

Jigglypuff: Side B

Lucario: Down Air

Luigi:

Meta Knight: Dair

Pikachu: Up B/Side B

ROB: Down Air

Samus: Down B

Sheik: Down Air

Sonic: Up B / Down Air

Toon Link: Down Air

Wario: Down B (fully charged?)

Yoshi: Down B

Zelda: Neutral B (Nayru's Love)

Zero Suit Samus: Down Air


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Again, this is a list of moves that can counter Kirby's Inhale and hit him before he can shield or do any kind of reaction.

Feel free to debunk any of the reds, and debunk or test the blue ones. Most of the green ones are known...Fox's Reflector surprised me though. I found it out when I was playing Fox against a Kirby, and I have never seen any other Fox do that, nor have I seen it mentioned anywhere. It's only like 4% damage, so it's not a big deal, but it's still good to know.

 

[fromundaman]

Couldn't Diddy just side B (the kick, as I don't think the monkey hump would hit.)?

I haven't tried it, but you'd probably have time to shield Yoshi's DownB, not that you'd actually want to swallow him...

I think MK could Dair too, but again, why would you swallow him?

Also, lately I have found myself using inhale>spit more and more often, for, despite appearances, a well placed inhale, even if it whiffs, can be hard to punish. The reason I say that is that unless perfectly spaced, most aerials will get sucked into the mouth, as will a lot of ground attacks. On top of that, it's great for people who shield/spotdodge an attack. Personally, I find it works best when used like a RAR Bair. Basically, replace the Bair by inhale (not too often though). The enemy will shield/spotdodge in most cases, allowing you to get the move started safely, then go flying into Kirby's open mouth. On top of that, it does decent damage (10%), and, if you walk towards a ledge (You don't have time to effectively Kirbicide unless you're already falling, but most people don't know that.), the opponent will start trying like mad to break out before you can Kirbicide, at which point you can spit them out off the edge, watch them do a buffered aerial, and hit them with an aerial of your own.
All in all, Inhale is awesome.

 

[Asdioh]

Characters and moves that can immediately hit Kirby after he Inhales (B) and Copies (down or B again)

Green: I know this works.
Cyan: I think it might work.
Red: Probably doesn't work, it's just a guess.

Bowser: Up B/Down B

Captain Falcon: Down B (Falcon Kick)

Diddy Kong: Up B

Donkey Kong: Up B/Side B

Falco: Up B

Fox: Down B (Reflector) / Up B

Game and Watch: Down Air / Up B

Ganondorf: Down B (Warlock Kick)

Ice Climbers: Down Air / Side B

Jigglypuff: Side B

Lucario: Down Air

Luigi: Side B

Pikachu: Up B/Side B

ROB: Down Air

Samus: Down B

Sheik: Down Air

Sonic: Up B / Down Air

Toon Link: Down Air

Wario: Down B (fully charged?)

Yoshi: Down B

Zelda: Neutral B (Nayru's Love)

Zero Suit Samus: Down Air


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.

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Again, this is a list of moves that can counter Kirby's Inhale and hit him before he can shield or do any kind of reaction.

Feel free to debunk any of the reds, and debunk or test the blue ones. Most of the green ones are known...Fox's Reflector surprised me though. I found it out when I was playing Fox against a Kirby, and I have never seen any other Fox do that, nor have I seen it mentioned anywhere. It's only like 4% damage, so it's not a big deal, but it's still good to know.

Bump for great justice.

C'MON STEP IT UP!


We need more discussion going on in this thread, and less random useless threads.

*considers bumping the "official" rate my Kirby thread, due to the recent influx of "rate my kirby!" threads that it was supposed to prevent*

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Umm... more Kirby's should use F-Throw > F-Air > F-Throw > Short Hop > F-Air? ☆

 

[fromundaman]

Bump for great justice.

C'MON STEP IT UP!


We need more discussion going on in this thread, and less random useless threads.

*considers bumping the "official" rate my Kirby thread, due to the recent influx of "rate my kirby!" threads that it was supposed to prevent*

You should. I've tried, but it never seems to work. People just don't like me enough. I blame it on being french (What does any of that have to do with anything? I don't know.)



Here's some that while I have not tried, I am fairly certain of:

-Bowser DownB: It starts too slowly for it work. We could easily shield it.
-ZSS/Shiek/ICs Dair: I don't think they'll work since they don't stop momentum. Then again, if G&W's works, those could.
-Luigi's sideB makes him rise a bit, so it won't work.



Also, here's a good tip:

You know how your opponent will pretty much always break out if you inhale someone onstage then try to Kirbicide? Well, here's a better option which will DESTROY your opponent's moral.

Step 1: Inhale them onstage.
Step 2: Jump off the stage.
Step 3: After you hear them mashing their buttons like crazy trying to break free and are a decent way from the stage, shoot them out. They will buffer a mostly random (since they are mashing every button) aerial (or special) and in most cases that will stop them from returning. I think the funniest thing is when it causes them to buffer an UpB (especially against MK, since that essentially neutralizes all his jumps.), or if ROB buffers a sideB.


Also, another funny thing to do against D3 is to inhale him out of his UpB, then walk offstage and shoot him back out. Since he won't have touched the ground, he won't have recovered any jumps and all he can do to recover is try to UpB again.

 

[Asdioh]

ok, I will update that post as stuff is found. These things are extremely easy to test, if you just have one person with you that knows how to push two buttons >_>

If you, say, Inhale Dedede out of his Up B, and then let him break out without doing anything, he doesn't lose his Up B like Snake does, right?

That would be cool if he did....

 

[fromundaman]

ok, I will update that post as stuff is found. These things are extremely easy to test, if you just have one person with you that knows how to push two buttons >_>

If you, say, Inhale Dedede out of his Up B, and then let him break out without doing anything, he doesn't lose his Up B like Snake does, right?

That would be cool if he did....

Unfortunately no. It was still enough to get me a kill yesterday though

EDIT:

I forgot to mention: On PS1, at the bottom center of the Rock stage, we have a jablock 'infinite' until the stage transforms again (so not really an infinite at all).

On Frigate, during the part of the stage where the platform on the right goes up and down, we can grab release>regrab against the wall when the platform on the right is down.

 

[A1lion835]

Sorry if this is painfully obvious, but:

You know how we can't eat TL because we're gonna get a dair to our face? Well, if we sometimes spit him off the ledge, he risks dairing himself to death.

Also, fromundaman, add tl to the list of chars (buffered tl dair=FAIL).

 

[fromundaman]

Oh yeah, there are a TON of characters who get screwed by that. I just didn't mention all of them to save space.

 

[Sky`]

Imo.

Utilt is amazing.
And less Dair---> anything.

Uair as an approach is sexy, so is Nair.

Just my.
Two.
SCENTS.

 

[T-nuts]

ive seen a lot of players lately saying that gonzo combo isnt as useful as it once was, and that kirby will move down the tier lists now that some characters have developed counters for this combo. but my question is...if you know a character is going to use a specific counter, dont you have a counter for that counter?

yes you do.

if youre playing a marth that you know is a smart player, hes gonna dolphin slash after you fthrow him...so use this to your advantage! after your fthrow, move towards him like youre gonna uair but just airdodge. marth will then be recovering from the landing lag of dolphin slash for the next 12-15 years so hit him with ground hammer. next time hes gonna be thinking twice about that dolphin slash...so uair him again after your fthrow. you gotta keep him guessing, but overall, kirby is at the advantage after a fthrow if you employ these 2 tactics.

 

[IC3R]

It's interesting how Kirby is one of the simplest and easiest characters to use in Brawl, due to the fact he has little-to-no Advanced Techniques to master, he combos well, and is just overall a good character.

Our only problem is that we don't really have to work that hard to make the little puffball great. I mean, he's High Tier now (13th out of 37), so most of us are pretty happy about that. The only real work we have to put into Kirby is actually devising combos. With everyone figuring out a way to escape the Gonzo Combo, we have to rely either on mindgames (nothing wrong with mindgames, though), or come up with a new strategy...


Anyway, back to discussing match-ups...

 

[fromundaman]

I agree nuts, but that isn't really the problem with the Gonzo. The problem is every character can DI out, which you can't really punish so easily.
Actually, what you're talking about is pretty much the only thing I like about the Marth matchup.

 

[T-nuts]

yeah thats true. still, i have decent success with the fthrow--> uair--> utilt --> bair variation if i land it at 0%.

 

[Asdioh]

if youre playing a marth that you know is a smart player, hes gonna dolphin slash after you fthrow him...so use this to your advantage! after your fthrow, move towards him like youre gonna uair but just airdodge. marth will then be recovering from the landing lag of dolphin slash for the next 12-15 years so hit him with ground hammer.

lol, what I just did to you a little while ago.

Except I did an ftilt or something stupid, instead of a Hammer.

I blame wifi.

But Marth is one of the only ones that is extremely punishable for his "combo counter." I love doing fthrow and then DI-ing away, so he Dolphin Slashes the air and I can punish. But few other characters get owned that badly. Snake is one of them (he pulls out a grenade expecting you to Uair, you can regrab him or whatever you want)

Fthrow->uair->utilt->bair won't land on really good opponents, unfortunately. :[

 

[T-nuts]

lol, what I just did to you a little while ago.

Except I did an ftilt or something stupid, instead of a Hammer.

I blame wifi.

yeah haha, i was thinking to myself, "i wonder if he read that post..."

i think it was a ftilt though lol

 

[choice_brawler]

Anyone try practicing grounded footstool combos? Seems like most of kirby's are pretty hard to pull off =/ At least to me they are.

 

[Asdioh]

T-nuts footstooled me (in the air I think) and then hit me with Stone, because I did the "get up attack"

D:

Also, I added Meta Knight's Dair to that list...I didn't think MK had anything when Kirby used Copy, but his Dair is a guaranteed hit.

 

[TheFast]

0_o Im just putting this out there when every I upair Yoshi I get sexy Kicked. When I do Fair out or the Fthrow on Yoshi than I can grab him again by sheilding the sexy kick ment for the upair. (More often than Uair and without taking 10%+ damage). You cant sheild it with your Uair. Whats up with that?

 

[T-nuts]

T-nuts footstooled me (in the air I think) and then hit me with Stone, because I did the "get up attack"

D:

lol, did i really? that seems like way too cool of a move for me to pull off on purpose, i probably tried to do something else and messed up because of wifi XD

 

[fromundaman]

Fast, I've ben saying that for months and months. The sex kick is faster than that Uair. Hell, I'm pretty sure it's on the previous page as well...

 

[A1lion835]

lol, did i really? that seems like way too cool of a move for me to pull off on purpose, i probably tried to do something else and messed up because of wifi XD

Yea. I did this once. It was against an awesome guy at my clan.

*A1lion835 tries to do something, but instead ends up footstooling and immediately using rock*
*A1lion835 gets a KO*
*A1lion835 pretends he meant to do that*

 

[T-nuts]

haha awesome

 

[TheFast]

Fast, I've ben saying that for months and months. The sex kick is faster than that Uair. Hell, I'm pretty sure it's on the previous page as well...

Well we are smart

 

[ShockisBack]

i dont have a friend i can test this out with, but i did this a lot at a tournament i went to this past weekend. dthrow->utilt->usmash. it's good from low percents, and i think you can utilt the spaceys twice.

Edit: i'm not sure if you can DI out and such

 

[Asdioh]

it's something similar to what I do often..it really depends though on what works for you and your opponent. If he doesn't really know what to expect.

utilt (or more than 1) to upsmash is something I definitely like to do though. :D

Just going to throw this out there because it's on my mind for some reason: I was playing Master Raven (verrrry good player) on wifi, and he used MK/Wario.

The same Fthrow->uair->??? combo wouldn't work on him every time, so I switched it up. Also, keep in mind that wifi is terrible, so he might have escaped them more easily offline.

3 examples I can think of that worked at least once each, depending on his DI and prediction:
1. Fthrow->uair->reverse utilt->bair->bair. The basic one.
2. Fthrow->uair->ftilt->fair. Hey, it worked.
3. Fthrow->uair->running upsmash. It worked because he didn't expect it.

Just to give you ideas of different things you can do...it almost always depends on what you have conditioned your opponent to expect.

 

[TheFast]

Yes but try fighting a player who can hit you after the Up-air. All thats left is to F-throw->Fair->Work from there. (Aka fighting Yoshi and maybe a peach with super good DI)

 

[A1lion835]

I was playing another kirby on wifi yesterday, and he sometimes managed to DI out and jump before I could uair out of my fthrow. *adds another character to the list*

 

[Asdioh]

That's odd...was it 0%, and was he doing it consistently? If he just did it once, maybe it was your mistake (it's wifi)

What was his name? If he was doing it consistently, chances are he's really good.

 

[A1lion835]

It was at 0%, and he did it about 1/3 of the time.

He was 007 (there are 2, he's the one that's not the pro. He's also the leader of my clan, Elite Destruction).

And, ironically enough. it was only his second time using kirby (to my knowledge).

 

[TheFast]

Yoshi has Sexy Kicked me at 0%. I am getting Sexy Kicked After the U-air hits, but still during the attack so I cant do anything about it.

 

[Asdioh]

ok, thanks to sasukebowser, I tested what moves can hit Kirby immediately out of Inhale->Copy...it was on wifi, but the testing is still valid, since Kirby's shield is buffered anyway.

Note that all characters can hit Kirby after he uses copy if they have an item in hand, by throwing it down immediately after.

Bowser: Nothing

Captain Falcon: Down B

Diddy Kong: Up B, item

Donkey Kong: Nothing

Falco: Nothing

Fox: Down B

Game and Watch: Down Air

Ganondorf: Down B

Ice Climbers: Down Air

Ike: POSSIBLY Up B, I didn't manage to pull it off, but with some kind of funky B-reversal, it may be possible.

Jigglypuff: Nothing

King Dedede: Nothing

Kirby: Nothing (Stone almost does it though)

Link: Item

Lucario: Down Air

Lucas: First hit of Down Air, Down B (with reversal, very difficult to do), PK Thunder doesn't quite hit, but can have interesting results

Luigi: Nothing

Mario: Nothing

Marth: Nothing

Meta Knight: Down Air

Ness: Nothing

Olimar: Nothing

Peach: Float-cancel to Down Air...very difficult to do, I never pulled it off, but my testing partner did a couple times

Pikachu: Nothing

Pit: Nothing

Pokemon Trainer-
Charizard: Nothing
Ivysaur: Down Air
Squirtle: Up B with funky B-reversal action

ROB: Down Air

Samus: Nothing

Sheik: Down Air

Snake: First hit of Down Air

Sonic: Up B, Down Air

Toon Link: Down Air, item
-Note that Down Air will most likely hit you twice for a lot of damage, if you are at a fairly low percent

Wario: Possibly fully charged Down B (not tested, but a half-charged Fart missed)

Wolf: Nothing

Yoshi: Down B

Zelda: Nothing, Neutral B is close though

Zero Suit Samus: Down Air, item


So there you have it. I'm sure some of this comes as a surprise to most of you, especially Snake's Down Air o_O

 

[Sosuke]

Maybe Zelda's B worked because of the funky reverse thing?

Or I was too slow with the shield.