Kirby MetaGame discussion

[psykoplympton]

I see a lot of valueless threads out there for kirby. somethings that just arent very usefull to the advance of kirby in the metagame. so i wanted to make this thread so we can have some serious discussion about kirbys general strengths and weaknesses. like combos, character matchups and other valuable things.



Discuss!

 

[Kirby Magatsu]

Good thread, i will translate some stuff of my Kirbt FAQ (portuguese), and i'll bring it here later. ^^

 

[feardragon64]

Glad someone is taking initiative. But nobody is posting I guess cause nobody knows what to post...Anyways, shall we start from ground zero?

Traits of Kirby:
1) Multiple Jumps.
Effect: Allows for fast falling off the stage, really good recovery, fun little ISJ's, Faking people out by getting them to think you'll land, etc. etc.

2) Inhale
Effect: Kirbicide, and occasionally absorbing abilities. Also can be used for placement?

3) Small disjointed on most attacks(his shoes?)
Effect: Decent prority, although not the best. Range is often thought less than actually is.

4) Semi-Meteor
Effect: Allows for spiking SOME characters at low percents, or high percents.

5) Throws are fun
Effect: Most of them combo into something, One of them is unique in that it takes you above the screen for a split second.

Etc. Etc. Please add to the list cause I'm tired and don't want to list them all out by myself.

Once you see how you can match up his different traits to do something cool, (or just added a trait and realized you can do something with it), you go like this

Cool Thing #1
After using inhale, spew them out under the edge of Final D(placement), then bair them(long reach and multiple jumps for turning around), it can stage spike.

Get the idea?

Anyways, don't have to follow it if you just want to say stuff. Just trying to encourage people to say something since progress in his meta game would be lovely.

 

[lockdown7]

The multiple jumps of kirby really allows you to be tricky with mind games when in the air. I think it is really important to punish air dodgers and kirby has tons of tools to do it. It's really an under looked part of his metagame that needs more attention.

I also think dair should be used more frequently because of its combo potential. If you time just right to make sure the last hit does not connect there is no knockback and a free shot for you.

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

auto cancelling of nair and dair (when low to the ground) make for some serious mindgames especially when trying to finish and not to mention Mindgaming DownB is a serious must. This move is so strong and has such good priority that it should be used as a common finisher

 

[SD14]

ya down b is my most used finisher when they are at high % i just dair then downb right on top of them work nicely even if they roll out of the way or just move out the way of the downb cause they get knock back if at high % that sets me up to do it again if they didnt die

 

[feardragon64]

Stone form is amazing if you can hit it.

It's a must if you're above the edge and they're recovering/just hanging onto the edge. If they hit you before they touch the edge, they get nailed back even further out!(probably death =b)
If they reach the edge , you're invincible so what are they gonna do about it(just make sure you DI away so you don't get caught by a spike).
If you hit them while they're on the edge and they lost invincibility frames, stage spike! Insta K.O. ^_^

 

[GhettoSheep]

Cool thing #1
I like using the DownB as an edgeguard tool. It's got great knockback and speed (its a falling brick). So when characters are trying to recover below the stage, sometimes i try to time a rock to hit on the outside of them while they're recovering and stage spike them. It will pretty much kill every time if spaced correctly

Cool thing #2
I also like using a short hopped hammer while my opponent is getting up from the ledge. If i know he's going to climb up instead of rolling or jumping its an easy hammer in the face and often ko's just make sure you time it right so you don't get punished afterwards.

Cool thing #3
Mindgames. Kirby has such good mindgames its scary. Every move kirby has either does a ton of damage or combos. Approach mindgames are killer. Throwing out empty shorthops, dash attacks, air dodges, bairs, nairs, hammers, fairs, retreating fairs. He has so many attacks he can do just while looking for an opening. I like to camp just outside my opponents range and they just don't know what to do because they have no idea what king of move kirby is going to throw out.

 

[feardragon64]

Kirby's throws are a *****. If you come across an opponent that doesn't jump directly after you dthrow them and utilt, they usually go for a dair. Shield right after the first or second utilt, they dair. Grab and dthrow again. Utilt once or twice more. That's 2 dthrows and 4 utilts, all with no damage. Heck, if they're stupid enough to do it again(I've had this happen before), then it's even MORE damage. I've managed to do this to someone in a tournament match up, they mentally gave up after that cause I racked up 60+ damage on them before they even touched me.

If you defeat your opponent mentally before the battle has truly begun, you're almost guaranteed a win if you don't screw it up. lol

 

[Jimtopia]

I also think dair should be used more frequently because of its combo potential. If you time just right to make sure the last hit does not connect there is no knockback and a free shot for you.

Agreed, this is really handy when I'm fighting my friends.

 

[Tomato Kirby]

psykoplympton, props to making this. I bet this type of thread will become the next great thing on the other character boards. I visit the Wolf SSBB's meta-game topic, and saw that Fox SSBB got one, as well.


Now, speaking of Stone...

It is an amazing punisher. They over-extend theirself trying to jump up to me? PUNISH. Snake's Mortar Slide trying to edge-guard? PUNISH. So much easier to punish with Stone in SSBB than in SSBM.

I just thought of something obvious that I should bring to attention: With reduced hit-stun in the game, is Kirby able to DI and then activate Stone to cancel our momentum, allowing Kirby to live longer if he gets hit off the side? Does this work?


For Kirby Magatsu:

Good thread, i will translate some stuff of my Kirbt FAQ (portuguese), and i'll bring it here later. ^^

Maybe I should bring/donate my FAQ here as well? Kirby Magatsu, maybe we could combine them (unless, of course, mine are already in your FAQ)? I would add my thoughts on advanced techniques, but it is hard to do without SSBB in my possession >.<. If interested (or you assimilated my FAQ already), PM me!

 

[Sarijy]

Kirby's throws are a *****. If you come across an opponent that doesn't jump directly after you dthrow them and utilt, they usually go for a dair. Shield right after the first or second utilt, they dair. Grab and dthrow again. Utilt once or twice more. That's 2 dthrows and 4 utilts, all with no damage. Heck, if they're stupid enough to do it again(I've had this happen before), then it's even MORE damage. I've managed to do this to someone in a tournament match up, they mentally gave up after that cause I racked up 60+ damage on them before they even touched me.

If you defeat your opponent mentally before the battle has truly begun, you're almost guaranteed a win if you don't screw it up. lol

I do this downthrow technique but without the utilt. On the last one you can usually slip in an upsmash which has higher priority against most opponent's dair. It also lets you send them way up to juggle.

 

[GhettoSheep]

I just thought of something obvious that I should bring to attention: With reduced hit-stun in the game, is Kirby able to DI and then activate Stone to cancel our momentum, allowing Kirby to live longer if he gets hit off the side? Does this work?

Yes, a little bit. Remember to airdodge immediately if you know you're going to need it though. Because if you airdodge you recover from hitstun faster and can turn into the rock quicker

 

[psykoplympton]

just for the record i saw wolfs metagame discussion so i made this one.

but for stone KOs someone said footstool to stone like just over the ground then do stone while the foe is liing on the ground. i believe the combo was utilt footstool rock. not my combo though. maybe if the opponent was coming from above then do airdodge right past them and footstool then immediatly do down-b and the ko? just a thought. i dont use rock too much and it can be predictable.

i dont really use fair too much, i want to find some uses. any ideas?

 

[Dpete]

i dont really use fair too much, i want to find some uses. any ideas?

I believe f-air is a good way to punish someone who is air dodging to much. The first kicks may miss, but the last should connect.

 

[chingy]

kirby is da shiznet lol just use lots of aerials on your opponents juggle em

 

[GhettoSheep]

i dont really use fair too much, i want to find some uses. any ideas?

Yeah, fair doesn't have the knockback that a bair does but it has multiple hits. When I'm WoPing with bair i usually turn around when I get to the level boundary and fair for the ko just to make sure they don't airdodge and I can get back to the stage safely.

It's also a decent approach if you want to mix it up a little bit. It sets up for combos more than bair does.

 

[psykoplympton]

how do you honestly thing kirby will do in the tiers? high, mid bottom?

 

[Kirby Magatsu]

Kirby will up in the tier, i think, he is underestimated yet.

 

[storm92]

IMO, just due to a disadvantage against those characters that look high/top tiers (i.e. Marth, Meta Knight, R.O.B.) he'll be exactly where Captain Falcon was on the last tier list.
CF was known to be deadly, but had some bad match-ups against Marth, Falco, and Fox, so he was placed top of mid. That's my guess for Kirbs.

 

[psykoplympton]

i did an awesome rock edgeguard today vs gaw. it was awesome. i sat at the very tip of the edge and did a stone in place. and while gaw was returning to the stage from the ledge it pushed me off the stage and killed him it was awesome. try it out if ytou know theyre going for the ledge and will roll or attack or something.

 

[Brahma]

What are most of you using for Kirby's throw game? If I get a grab at very low % (0-15ish) I always go for Fthrow > Uair and it seems to be guaranteed on just about everyone. After the Uair I go for another grab, Utilt or Ftilt..

After they start getting knocked back too far for Uair, I try Fthrow airjump Fair/hammer. After 50% or so I'm not entirely sure what to do, since none of his throws seem to combo well here or have extreme knockback. Usually Bthrow to try and get them offstage or Uthrow for damage.

Suggestions?


Also, Kirby has a great edgegame. He can play around the edge better than most characters, and he has a great edgegrab range, so he doesn't have to worry about going above the ledge to expose himself to attacks.

 

[psykoplympton]

the possibilitys are endless!

you can do fthrow-uair-fathrow-uair-fsmash.
or fthrow-uair-anythrow really

the possibilitys are endless

 

[feardragon64]

What are most of you using for Kirby's throw game? If I get a grab at very low % (0-15ish) I always go for Fthrow > Uair and it seems to be guaranteed on just about everyone. After the Uair I go for another grab, Utilt or Ftilt..

After they start getting knocked back too far for Uair, I try Fthrow airjump Fair/hammer. After 50% or so I'm not entirely sure what to do, since none of his throws seem to combo well here or have extreme knockback. Usually Bthrow to try and get them offstage or Uthrow for damage.

Suggestions?


Also, Kirby has a great edgegame. He can play around the edge better than most characters, and he has a great edgegrab range, so he doesn't have to worry about going above the ledge to expose himself to attacks.

Ya, pretty much same as you, except depending on their weight, after the fthrow, I go dthrow utilt. Occasionally, I actually go uair to final cutter just cause if they all hit, it racks up more damage than any of the other combos. Lol, but it's not guaranteed and it's more of something I just throw in for surprise =b

 

[Brahma]

What about at higher %, like 60-70+, where they are knocked too far back to follow up? I've been using Uthrow/Bthrow to taunt, just for lack of anything better.

Also, what are some good options out of vulcan jabs if you hit?

Is there anything free off a Dtilt trip?

 

[Dpete]

Is there anything free off a Dtilt trip?

I'm pretty sure you can follow up the trip with a F-smash until higher percents (150%+)

 

[Kirby Magatsu]

Fair are better in low percentages, save your Fsmash can be necessary.

 

[DR809]

What are most of you using for Kirby's throw game? If I get a grab at very low % (0-15ish) I always go for Fthrow > Uair and it seems to be guaranteed on just about everyone. After the Uair I go for another grab, Utilt or Ftilt..

After they start getting knocked back too far for Uair, I try Fthrow airjump Fair/hammer. After 50% or so I'm not entirely sure what to do, since none of his throws seem to combo well here or have extreme knockback. Usually Bthrow to try and get them offstage or Uthrow for damage.

Suggestions?


Also, Kirby has a great edgegame. He can play around the edge better than most characters, and he has a great edgegrab range, so he doesn't have to worry about going above the ledge to expose himself to attacks.

Right after the first time you Fthrow and Uair, do another Fthrow and follow up with hammer. If your opponent is stupid enough to get grabed again Fthrow then Usmash or Fair. If you start it at zero ur opponents damage goes up to 42+. Kirby's air game can be a b**** with his multiple jumps. I either spam Fair or Uair this racks up tons of damage.

 

[psykoplympton]

i like to spam uair it can really pwn. reverse uair especially. thats what i like cause it can throw spot dodgers off guard. uair is really good and fast aswell.

 

[Tomato Kirby]

I propose out-of-shield b-air. Surprisingly, I do not see this move as much as I should. Its use needs to increase.

Also, remember that Kirby players can DI in a different direction than their aerial well...use the c-stick!

 

[Sweeps]

The other day I punished a noob Ike with ONLY down throws. You know, one of those Ike's that wait on the edge with a charged quickdraw and spams fsmashes? I down threw, he didn't DI (or even jump...) so I punished him with dthrow after dthrow until another player interupted.

I love using Kirby. He's my 'annoyer character' on w/ anyone, but he's got the muscle to kick ***, too!

 

[1nconspikuous]

*sigh* i keep hoping that someone will post something really groundbreaking here, but i see a lot of other threads being bumped up instead.

anyway, i used to be able to do the gonzo combo fthrow>uair>fthrow>uair>fsmash/hammer/whatever consistently, but it seems that a lot of ppl are learning how to avoid it using DI/smashDI and jumping, even at low percentages. obviously the heavies are at a disadvantage, but it's something to look out for, cuz u might end up doing a move (like uair) just out of range and getting punished for trying to 'speed-dial' the combo.

btw, fthrow>uair>backwards utilt>bair>wop = win. i know it's been said already, but it really is orgasmic to pull it off perfectly.

oh and rock+slope = awesome, especially if they aren't thinking about it/expecting it (i.e. lylat cruise as the ship is turning).

 

[psykoplympton]

gonzo combo only works on certain characters. space animals, cfalcon and i might be missin one. it doesnt work on every char. like ddds cg.

 

[Brahma]

If people start jumping out of Fthrow to Uair at early %, then Fthrow, DJ Fair works pretty well to punish it. Depending on how high their 2nd jump goes, Uair and Hammer can work as well.

Another thing I'm starting to use more is Cutter. It has pretty good DI backwards, which makes it hard t punish. So getting up in people's faces to where the expect a Fair/Dair and then doing a retreating cutter can come in handy. I've taken to doing a full hop Fair, then right before I hit the ground, I do a cutter, and if they dropped their shield to grab it wil catch them. If you miss their shield or they roll/spotdodge/jump whatever, the DI back usually takes you out of harm's way and leaves them to deal with the projectile. Not something to spam really, but useful to throw in there.

Swallow can be mixed into your aerial game too. I use the same full jump Fair, to bait people into swallow too. It has decent priority, and beats shields and can outlast spot dodges.

 

[3xSwords]

*sigh* i keep hoping that someone will post something really groundbreaking here, but i see a lot of other threads being bumped up instead.

anyway, i used to be able to do the gonzo combo fthrow>uair>fthrow>uair>fsmash/hammer/whatever consistently, but it seems that a lot of ppl are learning how to avoid it using DI/smashDI and jumping, even at low percentages. obviously the heavies are at a disadvantage, but it's something to look out for, cuz u might end up doing a move (like uair) just out of range and getting punished for trying to 'speed-dial' the combo.

btw, fthrow>uair>backwards utilt>bair>wop = win. i know it's been said already, but it really is orgasmic to pull it off perfectly.

I used the gonzo combo a lot but I stopped doing it as much b/c I wanted to learn all of Kirby's options. So I found different types of the gonzo combo. If you steal Falco's power you can f-throw to double laser to regrab its pretty sweet, and you can finish with f-smash from 0%. Same with wolf except you do your laser and you get bayonet hit to laser shot to regrab. Sexiness Against fox when he reaches the %'s where he can't be combo'd out of a throw use his lasers to bring him to kill %.

I know on samus you can do f-throw > uair > to charge shot. On DK same thing except charge punch. You get the point. A lot of character powers can also be used in the gonzo combo.

I also think dair should be used more frequently because of its combo potential. If you time just right to make sure the last hit does not connect there is no knockback and a free shot for you.

Just a question about this. No matter how I time the dair I have found that it is impossible to avoid the last hit unless the attack finishes in the air. The last hit is "push effect" due to Kirby's landing on the ground, and is what prevents Kirby's dair from being a combo monster. However, I've had some occurances when I would perform the dair and even though the last hit occurred due to FF'ing the opponent wasn't pushed away.

I never got consistent results and I am still puzzled why it worked sometimes and sometimes it didn't. It happened more when I did a RAR dair on the dummy however those results weren't consistent either. I doubt this was because of DI and smash DI because I did it on a lvl 3 computer in training mode. If anybody knows how this can be replicated then I believe this will be Kirby's best finisher. Dair>FF>f-smash or d-smash and combo starter, dair>FF>grab>what's left of the gonzo combo.

 

[Delta Z]

Throwing copy abilities into the Gonzo combo? I should work on that.

Just thinking ahead...if you pull off a F-throw->Laser too much the other guy could start trying to reflect it. F-throw->airdodge does fix that, and you could go into a reverse U-tilt and catch them in another combo.

 

[1nconspikuous]

So I found different types of the gonzo combo. If you steal Falco's power you can f-throw to double laser to regrab its pretty sweet, and you can finish with f-smash from 0%. Same with wolf except you do your laser and you get bayonet hit to laser shot to regrab. Sexiness Against fox when he reaches the %'s where he can't be combo'd out of a throw use his lasers to bring him to kill %.

I know on samus you can do f-throw > uair > to charge shot. On DK same thing except charge punch. You get the point. A lot of character powers can also be used in the gonzo combo.

this sounds friggin cool. =) awesome idea man!

 

[Brahma]

ROB BEEEAAAAAM! works into gonzo combos well too.

 

[BlackBrawler]

F air can literally last forever because of Kirby's Floatiness. I have to say though that the best EdgeGaurd Kirby has in his arsenal is his upB. Even if an opponent surpasses in every way you can stilll win the match with that UpB spike. DownB is great to use as an EdgeGaurd as Ghettosheep said I use it when im to high in the air to spike and some1 like lucas or Fox are trying to recover. I love seeing there hopes and dreams, of reaching that edge being crushed into a million peices by kirbys DownB

 

[drSuper]

oh and rock+slope = awesome, especially if they aren't thinking about it/expecting it (i.e. lylat cruise as the ship is turning).

This also works great on Yoshi's Island

Another thing I'm starting to use more is Cutter. It has pretty good DI backwards, which makes it hard t punish. So getting up in people's faces to where the expect a Fair/Dair and then doing a retreating cutter can come in handy. I've taken to doing a full hop Fair, then right before I hit the ground, I do a cutter, and if they dropped their shield to grab it wil catch them. If you miss their shield or they roll/spotdodge/jump whatever, the DI back usually takes you out of harm's way and leaves them to deal with the projectile. Not something to spam really, but useful to throw in there.

-I started using final cutter more often also. It's a nice thing to throw in whenever your opponent is somewhat far away and on the ground. If it hits them, good, if they shield try it again. Then if your opponent decides to jump over, take to the air and fair or dair them. It's also nice to use when your opponent is approaching you in the air. You can catch them on the way up and the way down

-Try not to be to predictable or spammy with final cutter or else your opponent will just dodge it everytime and come in to kill you. It is actually really easy to dodge/shield this attack since the start up animation is quite long

-Also I use this when ledge hopping and either land back on the ledge or on the ground depending on what you opponent is doing

I know on samus you can do f-throw > uair > to charge shot. On DK same thing except charge punch. You get the point. A lot of character powers can also be used in the gonzo combo.

Lucario

F air can literally last forever because of Kirby's Floatiness. I have to say though that the best EdgeGaurd Kirby has in his arsenal is his upB. Even if an opponent surpasses in every way you can stilll win the match with that UpB spike. DownB is great to use as an EdgeGaurd as Ghettosheep said I use it when im to high in the air to spike and some1 like lucas or Fox are trying to recover. I love seeing there hopes and dreams, of reaching that edge being crushed into a million peices by kirbys DownB

umm
fair lasts the same every time...
upB is in no way the best edgeguard. Chase that bass tard off the stage and try to spike or bair them out of their second jump


*use rock sparingly*