Kirby MetaGame discussion

[TwilightKirby]

That works best on characters like DDD and DK (fthrow to rising fair) Also sometimes I do a rising fair to a fastfall bair (since like one kick hits them and they land on the ground for certain characters) Theres tons of strings you can make up that won't necessarily work so as long as you know the properties of all of kirby's moves you can come up with strings as you go.

 

[hippyman69]

momentum cancelling is gr8 and all. but gawd. does brawl really need more stuff to keep ppl alive longer??? it takes bloody ages to kill ppl nowadays without DI and momentum canceling. what happened to the good old days of 64 where you cud rack up figures of 70% in 15 secs and kill soon after.

 

[Delta Z]

^'Cause then matches end up being too short, and they end up being less about out-thinking your opponent abd more about button mashing and having inuman reflexes. Don't know about you, but constantly being hit with inescapable 0->Death combos isn't my idea of fun. Not saying no combos are good either. Good thing I use Kirby.

Back on topic, someone said something about using b-air to momentm cancel. Or did I read something wrong?

(What's the rules here on gravedigging anyway?)

 

[Asdioh]

(What's the rules here on gravedigging anyway?)

Meh, this thread is (or should be) useful.

Useless thing I discovered: If you are in water, and you jump, and IMMEDIATELY use Hammer after jumping, you will go pretty far underwater. The only uses I've discovered for this is suiciding at the BACK of Pirate Ship, instead of just at the front :D

Or you can go to training mode, give yourself a Starman, and impress your friends by going under the entire Pirate Ship, first from the front, then from the back ^_^

I'm still trying to get that "Quick Rock" technique from that other thread. It's hard :'(


Edit: I forgot to add my ultimate ko move. I'm sure many of you know how to do this, but I've never seen anyone but myself do it.

Simply: Use hammer, and press in the opposite direction right after you input the hammer. What happens is your hammer comes out in the direction you were originally facing, but only for a millisecond, and then it turns around and you swing in the opposite direction.

How is this useful? You can do it while running. While running, you could just run towards your opponent and hammer. With this, though, you can run just past them, and reverse hammer. MINDGAMES!

That's dangerous, obviously, so I wouldn't recommend it at high percentages. It's even better to use as your opponent is coming down from the air. Predict where they'll land, run past that spot and reverse hammer. Mindgames and epic ko, I'm telling you. I've managed to pull it off a couple times. I'll upload a video if I can.

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

Nair's auto-canceling is a great approach tool near the ground, the hitstun allows nair to combo into fsmash seamlessly, at high % this will KO and at low % you can follow up with any number of Kirby's combo tools.

 

[Asdioh]

Nair's auto-canceling is a great approach tool near the ground, the hitstun allows nair to combo into fsmash seamlessly, at high % this will KO and at low % you can follow up with any number of Kirby's combo tools.

But a good opponent will shield it and punish. It's pretty punishable because its range is so short that it's hard to DI out of their attack/grab range. :/

I mean, using it occasionally is a good idea, but as a regular approach, risk >> reward

 

[8BitRevolver]

i was messin around with the phantom lag or watever it is when u do a hammer on the ground and u jump and do nothing u cant move for a little bit when u land. anyway i was messin around with this and when i jumped i did a mid air dodge towards the ground and it did kinda like a waveland type deal

probably extremely useless but just throwin it out there maybe it could potentially lead to something maybe an AT lol...

 

[Jim Morrison]

kirby can make great wall of pains

I'd also like to add, kirby is a great meta knight counter, for his copy ability. you can show him what a whorenado is like, as well as countering his with a down B.

 

[Sakki]

EDIT

i'd like to hear more about stolen power combos/uses/mind games (i.e. looking as if you're trying to bait them into getting hit by a SH bair but instead doing a reverse B projectile) from everyone, because i think beating someone with their own power and using it better than them should be essential to Kirby's metagame.

 

[psykoplympton]

But a good opponent will shield it and punish. It's pretty punishable because its range is so short that it's hard to DI out of their attack/grab range. :/

I mean, using it occasionally is a good idea, but as a regular approach, risk >> reward

not as an approach but rather as a punish. for instance, marth misses his fsmash. done he got fsmashed.

 

[Jim Morrison]

another nice trick with kirby to get in 30% is when your opponent is at 0-15% damage, do a f-throw, and combo a air hammer into that

 

[psykoplympton]

i do that on chars that cants get chained by gonzo combo.

 

[8BitRevolver]

anybody know a practical way of jab locking
idk if any1 can do gonzos jab lock combo everytime and it only works on some ppl

i found that if u hit ppl with the weak part of the bair it slightly hits them towards the ground but thats without DI so idk if it even works i just tried it in training

 

[psykoplympton]

if they are on a platform above you sheilding and you hit them they will slide off the edge and land where you can jab lock them. they cvan jump out of it but it happens quick and they might not see it coming. you can try it.

 

[Asdioh]

if they are on a platform above you sheilding and you hit them they will slide off the edge and land where you can jab lock them. they cvan jump out of it but it happens quick and they might not see it coming. you can try it.

I never thought of that, but it happens all the time on wifi. I'll hafta give it a try.

 

[KSUkid]

A quick way to knock them into it is with an autocancelled nair. The knockback is miniscule (esp sour-spotted/timed) and landing lag at any point is only a few frames (even if it's not autocancelled). Landing right after hitting with it leads almost to a true combo into anything.

 

[psykoplympton]

i think it was brought up by tomato kirby in the first couple of pages. he mentioned out of sheild bair. this is beneficial for punishing in so many ways. how can i even get started.

this tech punishes so many people. like lets take rob for example. rob does a dsmash. you expect it you put up your sheild. and your facing away from him. right when the dsmash is over he lags just a tiny bit. and then shorthop out of sheild immediatly and bair. ownage. extra 10 percent right there.

then theres snake. you would want to sheild ftilt,AAA, every arial if hes ever in the air, and so on and so forth. this should be used becuase it has an excelent punishing game that can only be beneficial.

 

[Asdioh]

A quick way to knock them into it is with an autocancelled nair. The knockback is miniscule (esp sour-spotted/timed) and landing lag at any point is only a few frames (even if it's not autocancelled). Landing right after hitting with it leads almost to a true combo into anything.

I think he's talking about when a character gets knocked flat on the ground, and you then use the first jab of Kirby's jab combo to punch them across the stage. It's pretty hilarious.

 

[psykoplympton]

that would be what i was talking about. and the great thing is it works on every char not just a select few.

 

[Tainted_Knives]

I've recently added F-tilt to my game...something I haven't heard anyone here touch on...

It started when I was having trouble counterattacking opponents facing forward. You know when you're too close to short-hop, f-air but slightly too far away to catch them in a vulcan jab? F-tilt is my solution...

- it's quick

-has decent range,

- can be angled upward

- has tripping potential

- and most important of all, it usually catches my opponent off-guard, providing that I don't spam it like crazy. Otherwise, my opponent capitalizes on the small ending lag, usually with a throw. 8/10 of the time, though...it's a safe attack to use when you wanna change things up a bit. Especially when your just close enough to attack with the tip of your toe.

One trick I've learned is to use F-tilt after a Dash attack that fails to hit the last kick, leaving the opponent without the knock-back but slightly stunned. Doesn't work all the time, but then again what does?

 

[t!MmY]

I take a lot of information for granted. Using F-tilt for instance. That's basic Kirby knowledge from Melee.

I'm not being cynical, I just really take a lot of stuff I knew in Melee for granted and wonder if there's anything in my guide that has been overlooked. :o

 

[psykoplympton]

F-tilt is amazing btw. its great for building damage on chars you can t combo to well.

also i updated to first page with some info. http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=wWiQTh63_XU

tell me what you think, it just came up in the tactical discussion.

 

[Asdioh]

Ftilt can trip? O_o

I do use it, not ALL the time but often enough. It's pretty good for approaching certain characters, you'd be surprised how well it works if you just walk toward them and keep ftilting. People often don't think you're going to use the same attack three times in a row, let along twice. But take advantage of that, and poke their shield, or better yet, keep hitting them with ftilt, since its knockback is very low, especially at low percentages.

Does it trip only when you aim it down?
I noticed Snake's ftilt can trip, but he can go to hell.

Edit: The Grounded Foot Stool Combo looks interesting, especially since Kirby's is with his HAMMER OF GG. I'll hafta give it a try.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=wmvxfD6zWug&NR=1
^ that was related to the video psyko posted, and it's funny

 

[t!MmY]

Even a Stone can trip. :D

 

[Smores]

F-tilt is amazing btw. its great for building damage on chars you can t combo to well.

also i updated to first page with some info. http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=wWiQTh63_XU

tell me what you think, it just came up in the tactical discussion.

I can't wait to try this out! In the video it shows MK at 167% or something to that effect, do you know if they have to be this high in % for this to work for Kirby? Also is the lag long enough for Kirby to change to stone?

 

[psykoplympton]

I can't wait to try this out! In the video it shows MK at 167% or something to that effect, do you know if they have to be this high in % for this to work for Kirby? Also is the lag long enough for Kirby to change to stone?

further testing does need to be done because combos is always nice. i was thinking about the stone tonight. im gonna test it out some tomorrow. and just incase i didnt discover this a guy in the tactical discussion did, i dont want people mistaking me for this find.(not to say anyone did but just incase)

 

[t!MmY]

I tried Footstool -> Stone ... months ago. It doesn't work due to the startup lag with the Stone.

 

[Smores]

I tried Footstool -> Stone ... months ago. It doesn't work due to the startup lag with the Stone.

thats what I was afraid of, oh well. I wish the start up lag wasn't so bad with the stone.

 

[Beo]

The Footstool -> Hammer combo I think you need to do the same way as the DK Side B.

But my issue is that I can't get it to work on short chars like Meta Knight, how did he do it?

 

[Equus]

I've been testing the footstool combos and the only true follow up I can get to work is the Hammer

For the hammer to hit, you need to very quickly tap the control stick back and then forward while doing it, kind of like when you're doing an RAR. In addition, you have to hit B right when you footstool the opponent. You need to have quick fingers to pull everything off, so it takes some practice.

Final Cutter sometimes works, but the footstool lag ends right when the final cutter is about to hit. Sometimes, I was able to hit an opponent while they were trying to roll away, but, I need to test this with another person in order to confirm this. I had to use two controllers at once with training mode set on 1/4 speed. If anybody wants to help me test this over wifi, let me know.

Everything else does NOT work.

Note: As always, all tests were done against Mario and Bowser on Final destination.

 

[Tainted_Knives]

Ftilt can trip? O_o

I've only done it a few times, but yes...

 

[psykoplympton]

ftilt is a really great move. this move is good and quick, good range on it and is awesome for racking up damage. its nice to sneeak inthere every now and then to replenish moves and such.

 

[~Gonzo~]

I though footstool to rock worked, i guess it depends on ur opponents lag when footstooled

 

[psykoplympton]

i beleive you can footstool to rock them if they are in the air and you footstool them. but idk.

 

[Equus]

I though footstool to rock worked, i guess it depends on ur opponents lag when footstooled

Grounded footstool to rock doesn't work. You can see it in training mode with 1/4 speed. All the opponent has to do is hold down the shield button while he's stalled. the shield will pop up as soon as the lag ends. Dodges are more precise, but the opponent can simply learn how long the stall lasts and time the dodge.

It's possible that airborne footstool to rock may work, but without a partner, I have no way to test that.

Question: Are both grounded and airborne footstool lags the same for each character, or are they different?

 

[t!MmY]

Grounded footstool -> Stone = No.
Aerial Footstool -> Stone = Yes.

Grounded footstool lag is much shorter than aerial.

 

[Delta Z]

Making sure I got it right...
Footstool (ground) -> Air Hammer
Footstool (air)-> Stone

And there's several ways to lead into the footstool.

 

[Equus]

And there's several ways to lead into the footstool.

Thanks for reminding me: what are some good ways to lead into or set up for a footstool jump?

 

[t!MmY]

The U-tilt is good to get people overhead into a footstool. If they're at higher percents, you have to do a sour-spotted U-tilt (the 5% damage version), otherwise they go too high up. This isn't great because they can attack or airdodge if they're smart enough, but the trouble of pulling it off might be worth it.

You can try for a Grounded Footstool after blocking attacks. Meta Knight's Glide attack, for instance, might be good because you can cancel your shield with the jump and he'll usually be close enough after his attack for a Footstool. Additionally, if he started his Glide Attack in the air, and you're fast enough, you might be able to pull off an Aerial Footstool.

D-air to Footstool is the most reliable one I get.

 

[Asdioh]

I just thought I'd share something...

I've been playing default controller since forever, but I recently realized that I never used the Y button to jump, only X and when I need it, the control stick. So I found that changing Y to Special is incredibly useful. I mostly did it for Toon Link for short hop double arrows, but it's been useful with Kirby too.