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Kirby MetaGame discussion

Gnes

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hmm... i sort of get the logic...but predicting a snake whos momentum cancelling can be pretty difficult...I just mean the technique seems pretty situational...Maybe if you somehow can get the snake to cypher up close to the stage..

If snake has a nade in his hand as he recovering down...if a kirby absorbs...does the nade get sucked in or snake...What are the properties associated with this???
 

FB Dj_Iskascribble

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do you mean b-reversal? if snake is momentum cancelling you will be no where near his as you would have just hit him. and even still you can predict a reversal or can sit under him and b-reverse your own inhale
 

Gnes

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sorry bout that yes i mean b-reversal...depending on the height a snake can do 3 b-reversals...predicting all of those with kirby is pretty...difficult. Plus if snake touches the ground at a small distance away as kirbys inhaling he can just roll or jump away
 

fromundaman

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Right, but if he does a B reversal, he can't punish Kirby either, so it's always worth a shot, even if you miss, considering that a successful inhale in that position could mean a stock, which is usually pretty hard for Kirby to take off of Snake.
 

Nihongo-ookami

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Well, Kirby's edge game is great, not to mention a great spike. The 5 Jumps are great, because kirby's aerials are best used offstage or high up in the air. Offstage, if they airdodge a spike, you can just jump up, and C-Stick a Spike again. And STILL be able to recover. Just know Kirby's Limits. The biggest mistake one can make is to think that Kirby is god, and overestimate his abilities. This leads to death.
 

Lord Viper

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It's not much to say really. Though I hate how Kirby's Final Cutter make's him ledge grab 4-5 times. D=
 

SheerMadness

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speaking of footstool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzRXhT6foV8

check out the last 10 seconds.

Inhale->footstool a MK for the kill at 0%. Is that guaranteed? Or did the MK screw up? I thought MK footstooled Kirby normally, but I could be mistaken.
I've found that if you Kirbycide and spam the jump button the whole way down you'll get a lot of footstools and they'll never footstool you. Your footstool on them isn't guaranteed but I'm pritty sure they should never be able to footstool you if you're spamming jump.
 

Gnes

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I've found that if you Kirbycide and spam the jump button the whole way down you'll get a lot of footstools and they'll never footstool you. Your footstool on them isn't guaranteed but I'm pritty sure they should never be able to footstool you if you're spamming jump.
It looks like after the mk got out he dropped down below kirby because he didn't jump. He may have DI'ed to be under kirby after escaping too...regardless as long as the mk is clueless to whats about to happen i think this is generally useful.

Of course most mks will get us some sort of attack i guess ksizzle was just like ill just use my gazillion jumps and BAM...hes dead
 

Kewkky

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Yeah, you can footstool MK after an inhale, depending on where he DIs, and where you expect him to DI... But why try, when they will most probably uair you right after getting out of the inhale.

I find it much more plausible to spit em out when they're mashing buttons and watch them buffer a special, than actually footstooling an MK... Much less getting an inhale on one!
 

fromundaman

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I've found that if you Kirbycide and spam the jump button the whole way down you'll get a lot of footstools and they'll never footstool you. Your footstool on them isn't guaranteed but I'm pritty sure they should never be able to footstool you if you're spamming jump.
I've tested this extensively, and no, they will still FS you if you spam jump if they know about it. If they don't then they fall to where you FS them (this all happens too fast for a Uair I believe, though I hadn't tested that). However, some characters do get a guaranteed FS (for more info, check my list.)
It is useful against MKs who don't know about it, but you run the risk of getting FSed if they do.
 

fromundaman

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Meh, I find uses for it. Especially against Snakes... They have to AD at a different time to avoid it, which allows for mindgaming into aerial hammers.
And it really is a lot easier to land than you might think...
 

Asdioh

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Yeah, I'm just saying that it's one of those stupid moves that gets you punished for SUCCESSFULLY using it.

Other than that, it can put you in an advantageous position. It's hard to land against people that are constantly moving though. You can get punished pretty badly if you miss.
 

fromundaman

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That is very true, though to be fair, how hard you get punished depends on the character. For example, never inhale against a grounded DK or Snake.
 

Nihongo-ookami

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I honestly use Inhale a lot. It makes up a lot of my game.

In fact, I use it against some normally annoying characters.

Link/Tink:Eat Bombs.
Diddy:Eat Bananas/Peanuts.
Wario:Eat Bike.
Snake:Eat nades(Sometimes)
Peach:Eat Turnips.

And for abilities:

Fox:LAZORZ!
Falco:Disrupting LAZORZ!
Pika:Can't camp anymore, now can ya?
Snake:COUNTAH-CAMP!
D3:Not really, although his has better range.
Olimar:Yayz! Purple pikmin= Win.
Ivysaur:DThrow > Bullet Seed, anyone?
Charaizard:FThrow > Flamthrower.
Squirtle:Meh...
Rob:He's so cute! And it's a really good attack!
 

Gnes

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I've tested this extensively, and no, they will still FS you if you spam jump if they know about it. If they don't then they fall to where you FS them (this all happens too fast for a Uair I believe, though I hadn't tested that). However, some characters do get a guaranteed FS (for more info, check my list.)
It is useful against MKs who don't know about it, but you run the risk of getting FSed if they do.
I think a u-air from meta could connect considering it comes out in 1 frame. I think its too risky unless u get them when they dont have any more jumps...which is unlikely at best.
 

fromundaman

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I think a u-air from meta could connect considering it comes out in 1 frame. I think its too risky unless u get them when they dont have any more jumps...which is unlikely at best.
1 frame? I thought it was a little (albeit not much) slower than that. I'll take your word for it though, because my internet connection sucks too hard for me to go look it up.

Regardless, I agree, it's a bad idea, since even if you don't get Uaired, you get FSed, which can turn into FS>Dair.



Also, while eating projectiles is a terrible idea anyway, why would you eat Wario's bike? While it's out it won't hurt you, and it prevents him from properly recovering until he gets rid of it, not to mention it gives you pointless lag.
 

SheerMadness

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That is very true, though to be fair, how hard you get punished depends on the character. For example, never inhale against a grounded DK or Snake.
I always inhale against grounded Snake and DK. Obviously only near edges though. Inhaling and walking off the edge is really good vs a lot of the cast and I really don't see many people doing it aside from like Chu.
 

Gnes

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Meta Upair is 2 frames. And yeah, don't eat Wario's Bike unless it's an accident.
1 frame start up sexy. Hits on frame 2. Wait u dont play kirby.... GET OUT OF HERE U POSER!!!! :laugh: :3Px

Inhaling against a snake that doesnt know inhales properties are good...ive played so many snakes that just try to walk forward and tilt and get sucked in. I wonder if they f-smash at a decent range away would it hit. That could be deadly.
 

fromundaman

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I always inhale against grounded Snake and DK. Obviously only near edges though. Inhaling and walking off the edge is really good vs a lot of the cast and I really don't see many people doing it aside from like Chu.
I actually do that quite a bit, but the reason I said those two was A) You can get punished VERY hard, and B) DK FSes you out of an inhale break, and if you took him from the ground, Snake can cypher out of it, so if you try to FS him, he just gets a second one.

All in all though, it is a good idea, and if it seems the Snake doesn't know about it, it works well.
 

CaliburChamp

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I always inhale against grounded Snake and DK. Obviously only near edges though. Inhaling and walking off the edge is really good vs a lot of the cast and I really don't see many people doing it aside from like Chu.
I do that all the time. Also, I thought of something extremely good that will work 100% of the time. For the stage Yoshi Story Brawl.

1. Inhale opponent and walk off stage with Kirby's back facing to the stage.

2. Footstool when they pop out of Kirby's mouth, they won't be able to DI away from it because the wall from Yoshi Island brawl would prevent that, making it possible to footstool them 100% of the time and getting some very early kills.
 

Asdioh

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I do that all the time. Also, I thought of something extremely good that will work 100% of the time. For the stage Yoshi Story Brawl.

1. Inhale opponent and walk off stage with Kirby's back facing to the stage.

2. Footstool when they pop out of Kirby's mouth, they won't be able to DI away from it because the wall from Yoshi Island brawl would prevent that, making it possible to footstool them 100% of the time and getting some very early kills.
:O

O:

This sounds amazing!

It's too bad people always stagestrike Yoshi's Island whenever they play against me. People seem to hate that stage for some reason -_-
 

fromundaman

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Awesome idea Cal, but it would actually work the other way around. When they break loose, they break away from Kirby's mouth, so when I say DI away, I mean DI away from Kirby, meaning you would have to be facing the wall.

Still, if you can manage that, it would be an awesome kill!
Man, I love YI... And Asdioh, I feel sorry for you then. People around here usually wait for their opponent to strike it since everyone seems to hate it, which usually leaves me with only it and PS1/Lylat left. :laugh:
 

Asdioh

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It usually comes down to Yoshi's Island and Smashville/FD for me, and people almost always strike YI. :[

I always strike Lylat/Battlefield. Or if it's PS1 instead of Lylat, I might strike FD or something. *shrug*
 

A1lion835

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I always strike battlefield. I have retardedly bad luck there...gah! I don't get why people don't like Lylat...it tilts, screwing other guy's recoveries, you can Ninja Spike most (if not at all) of the cast there, and projectiles that go straight have a tough time hitting you from reasonably far away (but snake's so broken that none of his 5 FREAKING PROJECTILES get affected by this).

...and Ninja Spiking on Pirate Ship is hard, you need to come down as the ship's head is rising from the waves.
 

Sino

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Is walking off the stage that much better than jumping off when you inhale someone. I always jump because i think with walking they can escape faster.
 

CaliburChamp

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I do that all the time. Also, I thought of something extremely good that will work 100% of the time. For the stage Yoshi Story Brawl.

1. Inhale opponent and walk off stage with Kirby's back facing to the stage.

2. Footstool when they pop out of Kirby's mouth, they won't be able to DI away from it because the wall from Yoshi Island brawl would prevent that, making it possible to footstool them 100% of the time and getting some very early kills.
I tested this out, and it actually works the other way around, Kirby's "FACE" has to be towards the stage, not his back. I was able to do the inhale+footstool along the wall of Yoshi Island, making them unable to DI away cause of the wall was in the way.
 

Gnes

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I tested this out, and it actually works the other way around, Kirby's "FACE" has to be towards the stage, not his back. I was able to do the inhale+footstool along the wall of Yoshi Island, making them unable to DI away cause of the wall was in the way.
I tried this on pictochat...it was very succesful. This "tech" seems pretty useful, i think it could work pretty sucessfully on a good number of chrs. Im gonna test this out more intensively today.
 

fromundaman

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Awesome idea Cal, but it would actually work the other way around. When they break loose, they break away from Kirby's mouth, so when I say DI away, I mean DI away from Kirby, meaning you would have to be facing the wall.

Still, if you can manage that, it would be an awesome kill!
Man, I love YI... And Asdioh, I feel sorry for you then. People around here usually wait for their opponent to strike it since everyone seems to hate it, which usually leaves me with only it and PS1/Lylat left. :laugh:

I tested this out, and it actually works the other way around, Kirby's "FACE" has to be towards the stage, not his back. I was able to do the inhale+footstool along the wall of Yoshi Island, making them unable to DI away cause of the wall was in the way.

D'awww.... :(

Still, nice tech! Glad to see people taking advantage of our IB FS.
 

Asdioh

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Inhale Guide said:
On certain characters, Kirby can get a footstool on his opponents when they break out of inhale in the air, provided that Kirby is not moving in a horizontal direction and that the opponent DIs a certain way. This is quite simply amazing since it means that some characters simply cannot avoid dying if they get inhaled then brought offstage (they get FSed if they try to break out, or risk buffering an aerial if we starshot them, which on certain characters will kill them no matter what they buffer, or they get Kirbicided). Of course, a meager footstool won’t kill them by itself unless you managed to fall pretty close to the blastzones. However, I have also found that on every character, we can follow a footstool with a FF Dair which itself can be followed up by another footstool (FS>FF Dair>FS will kill on every legal stage by the way, unless there is a floor of some kind in the way.).
I have compiled a list of all the characters that this does and doesn’t work on, along with which way they have to DI, though more testing is required for this, as I have not had time to test every character (nor do I think I ned to, as for some characters it is pretty obvious what happens.). Anyway… enough rambling. here’s the list:


Characters that I KNOW FS Kirby:

-MK
-DK (Yeah, I know, this one surprised me too)
-Mario
-Luigi
-Peach (though she can be FSed if she doesn't try to FS us.)
-Kirby (the inhaled Kirby seems to get the footstool)
-Olimar (Awww... it was too good to be true.)
-Samus

Characters that get FSd unless they DI away from Kirby (which, in most cases, is away from the stage as well.):

-Fox
-Falco (he can avoid being FSed if he doesn't DI and mashes jump. If he doesn't mash jump, or DIs towards the stage (AKA tries to recover), he gets FSed.)
-Wolf (He gets FSed unless he DIs away from Kirby. If Kirby has his back to the stage, then Wolf would have to DI away from the stage, and as a result cannot recover.)
-Shiek
-Ganon (Same as Wolf)
-ZSS (She can also DownB or UpB to avoid being FSed, but she doesn't recover either way, unless maybe if she is within UpB range of the stage. She is also one of the easiest to inhale gay since it is so easy to inhale her out of her recovery, since, as good as it is, it's very easy to predict her trajectory.)
-Bowser (His hurtbox is kind of weird though, so you actually have to start trying to FS earlier than it looks like you should.)
-Snake (Mash jump. If he doesn't DI away, it will result in a footstool. If he does DI away, he can't Bomb jump. Since that counts as a grab release, inhale breaks don't give back his cypher either. Basically, he gets screwed. Also, you need to be moving forward very slightly while he's in your mouth to get the FS.)
-Ike (I remember testing him, but didn't record the results, so I don't remember exactly how you have to DI to get the FS, but if I remember correctly, you had to move forward slightly before he breaks out, then the only way he can avoid the footstool is to DI away, which leaves him unable to recover.)

Characters that either FS Kirby or neither one gets FSd:

-Lucario
-TL (almost certain he FSs us)
-Diddy
-Yoshi (Someone, I think it was Viper, has also told me that Yoshi FSs Kirby, so I’m pretty sure this one is correct, though I haven’t personally tested it.)
-Marth (I’m pretty much certain this ****er FSs us… as if he didn’t have enough on us already…)
-G&W (Same as Marth)
-Ness
-Lucas
-Luigi
-Peach
-Wario
-Zelda
-ROB (He only FSs us if we try to chase him for the FS. otherwise, neither gets a FS.)
-Pit
-ICs
-Jigglypuff
-Squirtle
-Ivysaur (see Olimar)
-Mewtwo (Don’t feel bad. He’s so broken he FSs everyone out of a FS, and he can even get a Dtilt on you out of it somehow. He’s just that broken.)


Characters that I think can be FSd if you follow DI:

-Pikachu
-Sonic (see above)
-D3 (He can escape by doing his UpB.)
-Link
-CF (Maybe? Having a hard time figuring this one out.)
-Charizard (See above)
I actually tested some of this out, though I don't know how reliable it was since I was jumping with one controller and a wiimote (no nunchuk since I was too lazy to attach it) in the other hand.

Anyway, the only one I tested for sure that gets footstooled is Snake, and most of the other trouble matches for me (like diddy, marf) seemed to footstool Kirby first.

Still, this can be pretty freaking useful. I'm definitely going to try taking Snakes to Yoshi's Island for the neutral (which I would do anyway, usually) and footstool them. I might try it with other characters as well, though it's risky if they decide to mash jump.

Also, I thought I'd mention it here to confirm something again: when you are falling offstage, and you Inhale, if your opponent mashes buttons, it doesn't help, does it? It only helps if you're onstage while you Inhale them. So be careful with that @_@

I abused this on wifi against some friends this weekend. Depending on their percentage and how hard they're trying to get out, you should Inhale facing into the stage, and then jump off so you don't reach the blastzone before they break out. And mash jump. :] it's fun.

And obviously, the reason I'm posting this is because DI does not become a factor when you're facing the stage. It becomes guaranteed :D
 

Gnes

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I foresee inhale becoming a critical part of kirby's metagame if we can figure out the mechanics with this.

Ill try this on fliphop...my diddy brother today, and see how this works out in multiple situations. Ill try to bring some feedback later on today.
 
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