Kirby MetaGame discussion

[aqua421]

well it doesnt matter if they shield the Dair or not, actually most of the time what happens when i use this is that my friend will shield the Dair but get footstooled, but it works regardless of whether your opponent shields the Dair or not.

Actually thinking of it now after a certain percent the Dair will knock your opponent up off the ground so i guess this probably wouldnt work past those percents.

 

[Pink murder]

Actually thinking of it now after a certain percent the Dair will knock your opponent up off the ground so i guess this probably wouldnt work past those percents.

Naturally.

Well, I just did some testing. It works awesome as long as your opponent is standing still. Thing is, most of our opponents don't just stand still. As soon as I put the CPU to attack it was a lot harder to pull off. You would have to hit with all of your Dair to do it right, because if you don't your opponent can simply walk away, leaving you open for punishment. The stupid CPU didn't block the Dair much, but I think whenever it did and I managed to footstool it, I jumped as if I footstooled it, but it stayed in the shielding animation. (Or at least that's what I THINK might have happened. Or maybe I'm going crazy >_>) I think it's too situational to use it regularly, but using it as a mindgame or once in a blue moon might have it's advantages- if you can pull it off that is.

However, someone needs to test this on an opponent who's shielding. Most of the players I know usually shield my Dair's and wait to punish, they don't "simply walk away". I don't have anyone to shield while I'm attempting it, and I don't have time to wait until the CPU does it.




●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●

 

[Kewkky]

Whenever an opponent is (air)dodging, shielding, or doing an attack (both grounded and aerial), he can't be footstooled.

 

[fromundaman]

Whenever an opponent is (air)dodging, shielding, or doing an attack (both grounded and aerial), he can't be footstooled.

Actually, you can FS a shielding opponent. It momentarily drops their shield too (It's really good for characters with sex kicks (Like Mario, who can SH Dair>FS>Nair).).

 

[Pink murder]

Actually, you can FS a shielding opponent. It momentarily drops their shield too (It's really good for characters with sex kicks (Like Mario, who can SH Dair>FS>Nair).).

Does it bring down their shield long enough to get an attack in with Kirby?


●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●

 

[fromundaman]

With Kirby, I'm not sure sadly... I don't think so though.

 

[Pink murder]

I just did some testing, and I found that footstooling a shielding enemy has no effect on them. You jump higher, but they stay unchanged. But I also found that you can pull off the Dair -> Footstool if you hit with all of your Dair and manage to footstool -> Hammer flawlessly. If your enemies shield is even a little worn down, you will manage to hit with the last few parts of Dair-unless they point their shield upward- and follow up with the footstool. Again, it's hard to on a regular basis, and there are better options in those kinds of situations. I would use it rarely as a mindgame at best.


●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●

 

[fromundaman]

Hmmm cool.

That being said, I guess the Mario Nair just shieldpokes then. Oops. Coulda sworn it dropped their shield a bit.

 

[Pink murder]

Yea, that would be awesome. The technique could have served more than a mere mindgame.

By the way, do you think a footstool -> inhale would work? I find it tricky to inhale certain opponents. I usually try and mindgame them into it, but lately it's been getting pretty predictable.


●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●

 

[Asdioh]

I've never been able to do that with Kirby, or anyone besides Bowser.

Scratch that, I've been able to do the infinite jump glitch a few times with practice, but the timing is awfully strict. It would be so useful if I could do it more consistently...maybe. Air hammer is pretty easy to punish, regardless.

I just did some testing, and I found that footstooling a shielding enemy has no effect on them.

It's the same if they're doing aerials or airdodging or something: you jump really high off of them, but they're unaffected.

 

[Pink murder]

You've been able to do it with Kirby or with Bowser? O.o

I've tried it a couple of times, but I was never able to do it >_>


●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●

 

[fromundaman]

Yea, that would be awesome. The technique could have served more than a mere mindgame.

By the way, do you think a footstool -> inhale would work? I find it tricky to inhale certain opponents. I usually try and mindgame them into it, but lately it's been getting pretty predictable.


●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●

Hmmm.... I was wondering about that yesterday actually. FS>B-reversed inhale might work.

I was thinking I might start trying to use ledge-drop>Fair or Dair (I usually use Fair, but Kewk's suggestion of doing Dair sounds better)>FS>B-reverse inhale (Instead of my usual Bair).



Ledgedrop rising inhale sometimes catches them off guard too.

 

[Pink murder]

Hmmm.... I was wondering about that yesterday actually. FS>B-reversed inhale might work.

I was thinking I might start trying to use ledge-drop>Fair or Dair (I usually use Fair, but Kewk's suggestion of doing Dair sounds better)>FS>B-reverse inhale (Instead of my usual Bair).



Ledgedrop rising inhale sometimes catches them off guard too.

Funny, I do the same thing. Have you ever tried Uairing after a footstool? I like to hit with the last frames of the Uair and following up with a Utilt- for low percentages that is.

Also, Ledgedrop rising inhales are too good xD. Most of my opponents try to block whatever goes there way after a ledgedrop, so an inhale really catches them off guard and messes up their game.

As for changing the Bair to a reverse inhale, first we need to see if it really does work.
(I'm pretty sure it does)


●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●

 

[GanonkingAbyss]

Funny, I do the same thing. Have you ever tried Uairing after a footstool? I like to hit with the last frames of the Uair and following up with a Utilt- for low percentages that is.

Also, Ledgedrop rising inhales are too good xD. Most of my opponents try to block whatever goes there way after a ledgedrop, so an inhale really catches them off guard and messes up their game.

As for changing the Bair to a reverse inhale, first we need to see if it really does work.
(I'm pretty sure it does)


●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●

curse ur inhale, u killed ganondorf lol, this was the most recent post under brawl character discussion lol

 

[Pink murder]

Can't you get an infraction for that sort of thing Abyss? Next time try messaging me lol.

Don't worry, I have something related to this post to say.

I just tested it, and it does work. FS into reverse inhale is a go. That chain fromundaman mentioned earlier can really turn the tides if we're down a stock and a simple kirbycide is too predictable.


●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●

 

[aqua421]

is that FS grounded or in the air?

 

[GanonkingAbyss]

sorry, it's sort of on topic...so that its on topic: i try to randomly throw out inhales, like i could run up to the opponent, they guard but instead of grabing or guarding i could inhale(for copying power).
i dont do this but could u possibly to to tech chase them into inhale, or jab to inhale, if they sdi out of the jab u could inhale right b4 they do, most of the time i fsmash after escaping some1s jab, idk about kirbyciding though, u could posibly jab inhale by the ledge, or jab jump off and inhale

 

[Pink murder]

is that FS grounded or in the air?

Crap. I only tested grounded, but I'm almost certain it works on the air too.

Besides, I doubt a ledgedrop -> Dair -> FS -> reverse inhale will need an aerial FS

Lol, you're right Abyss, inhales are fun
A jab -> inhale though, would that really work?


●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●

 

[Kewkky]

A jab -> inhale though, would that really work?

Uhh... Is that rhetorical?

jab1 > inhale should really never work... Your opponent has like what, 10+ frames to do whatever he wants to you while your inhale animation is starting? It should only work if they're not used to jab-cancelled followups, and usually people wisen up to these things and simply mash a fast attack when we start jabbing them, before DIing away...

To me, the best way to do inhales is to wavebounce them on-stage, or either doing fastfalling inhales or ledgehopped inhales offstage.

Oh, and wavebouncing is what happens when you do a special attack, then exactly when the attack is starting up, press the control stick in the opposite direction your facing... Your momentum will "bounce" from where it was originally heading.

 

[fromundaman]

Uhh... Is that rhetorical?

jab1 > inhale should really never work... Your opponent has like what, 10+ frames to do whatever he wants to you while your inhale animation is starting? It should only work if they're not used to jab-cancelled followups, and usually people wisen up to these things and simply mash a fast attack when we start jabbing them, before DIing away...

To me, the best way to do inhales is to wavebounce them on-stage, or either doing fastfalling inhales or ledgehopped inhales offstage.

Oh, and wavebouncing is what happens when you do a special attack, then exactly when the attack is starting up, press the control stick in the opposite direction your facing... Your momentum will "bounce" from where it was originally heading.

Ah oops. Then wavebouncing inhale was what we were talking about.

My bad, I've heard that called like 8 different things, so I tend to get mixed up.

 

[Pink murder]

Uhh... Is that rhetorical?

Your opponent has like what, 10+ frames to do whatever he wants to you while your inhale animation is starting?


Oh, and wavebouncing is what happens when you do a special attack, then exactly when the attack is starting up, press the control stick in the opposite direction your facing... Your momentum will "bounce" from where it was originally heading.

That's exactly what I thought, but I didn't have time to write it.

Does there happen to be a video showing wavebouncing? I can't quite grab the concept.


●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●

 

[Kewkky]

That's exactly what I thought, but I didn't have time to write it.

Does there happen to be a video showing wavebouncing? I can't quite grab the concept.


●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53Wix_KsK5g

That's called "Wavebouncing"... It's called "B-sticking" if you change the settings in the c-stick from Smash to Specials, as it adds yet another level of depth (you can wavebounce while still facing the direction you jumped at, giving you a very good new option: retreating specials [fake outs]!).

 

[fromundaman]

So... that's apparently not what I was talking about. This is how I get so confused. I assume others are right befire checking to see if they're talking about the same thing I am.


Here's what I was talking about:

B-reversals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TojIKgMPs6s

 

[Pink murder]

Both of those are awesome x_x

But for the Wavebouncing, do we HAVE to put the c-stick to special?


●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●

 

[Kewkky]

Nope, wavebouncing doesn't need the c-stick changed into "specials", although it does make it easier.

Wavebouncing in itself is INCREDIBLY easy to do with neutral Bs and sideBs, and a little challenging with upBs and downBs... Just do whatever special attack you desire, then immediately after the animation starts, IMMEDIATELY, press in the direction behind your character. It is great and helps too much. For example, Snakes use this so their landing trajectories isn't predictable; they go real high up, fall with a very fast speed to their left/right, then wavebounce once they see their opponents running in the direction they wanted the opponent to run to. This way, they land safely while the opponent is off at the opposite direction, possible executing a smash attack or aerial.

Obviously, it is great for mindgames, and we can do RETREATING wavebounced specials: jump backwards, do a special attack (like our inhales or sideBs), and tilt the control stick immediately in the opposite direction from where you're facing... You'll be "spacing" your inhales and hammers just like how a Marth spaces their retreating fairs!


I'm gonna check fromundaman's link now.

EDIT: B-pivoting and wavebouncing are the same things, but wavebouncing is the more popular term. B-sticking is when you use the c-stick to do all your wavebouncing by changing it to "specials".

 

[Pink murder]

I'm definitely going to implement that onto my game!

Can you be falling and wavebounce? Or do you have to do it immediately after a jump?


●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●

 

[Kewkky]

Yep, you can wavebounce anywhere at all in the air. When you reverse a "B" attack on the floor it's called b-pivoting, just like how pivot grabs are reversed grabs, pivot smashes are reversed smashes, etc...

When you get REALLY goot at wavebouncing, you start getting creative with all kinds of options... Like, snakes use their c4s to blast themselves onto the bottom of stages, tech the stages, then wavebounce a grenade on-stage immediately... Real technical, real flashy, and real helpful!

 

[Pink murder]

Ok, got it. Thanks for the help.


●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●

 

[fromundaman]

EDIT: B-pivoting and wavebouncing are the same things, but wavebouncing is the more popular term. B-sticking is when you use the c-stick to do all your wavebouncing by changing it to "specials".

No they aren't. They are opposite input, and one makes you retreat while one reverses your momentum and makes you advance.


That being said, I didn't realize you could wavebounce hammers and inhales. This intrigues me.

 

[Suspect]

why are you guys still discussing summer 2008

*giggity*

 

[Asdioh]

Good question >.>

 

[fromundaman]

Indeed

10verytrues

 

[Kewkky]

Well, I mentioned a wavebounced inhale as a mindgame, and some people asked what wavebouncing was.

Nothing wrong with talking about past discoveries, sometimes this is how we find newer things.

 

[Kewkky]

That being said, I didn't realize you could wavebounce hammers and inhales. This intrigues me.

Yep! Now, I never do this because I'm lazy and never really needed to do this in my matches, but if you're knocked far by an attack momentum cancel and STILL are about to die off the sides, a wavebounced inhale WILL save your life... Since it reverses our momentum, it acts as a 'Bucket Brake': you're flying, momentum cancel+DI, wavebounced inhale... You're alive now!

I don't do this, since my main opponents kill me off the top, and no amount of momentum cancelling will save me...... Although I wanna try upB'ing after momentum cancelling to see what happens... Experimenting!



EDIT: Whoops, sorry about the double-post... I wanted to add something to my post, but while I was writing what I was going to copy+paste, I forgot that I already posted and hit the reply button.

 

[evanswift]

What I've noticed (but this hasn't been proven in a tournament yet) that not many oppenets can defend his air combos . You can get close to (if not achieve) a 0-to death if you combo his air moves corectly. But then again I've only noticed this in fights with my neighbors.

This may be of some use

 

[DarkPikmin]

do we do enough of this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7cElOk8hxk

 

[Kewkky]

do we do enough of this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7cElOk8hxk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPbR90m8Ldg

Tee-hee.

 

[fromundaman]

There's a LOT of places to do that glitch on SSBB... Not sure why you posted a Squeak Squad example, though it is neat to know it's a reoccuring bug

 

[Asdioh]

do we do enough of this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7cElOk8hxk

looool

that's amazing, I didn't know it was in other games too.

Spoiler

guys I think it was a joke, he knows it's in the game >_>

 

[Pink murder]

Lol that's awesome xD.

●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●