Juggling With Marth (Work in Progress, More Valid Information being added)

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

A Guide to Juggling With Marth

Overview:

One of Marth's main ways of racking up damage quickly and easily is by "juggling" opponents.

General Strategies

Juggling is one of Marth's easiest and most effective ways to rack up damage on your opponent. Your juggling tools consist of Blue Dancing Blades, Utilt, Uair, Usmash, and Uthrow. The easiest way to execute juggling is by using Blue DB, and using Uthrow.

In The Air

When in the air, simply use uair to hit the enemy back up. Expect your opponent to try and airdodge through your attack. If they do airdodge, just wait it out and then use your attack while they are vulnerable. If they fastfall past you while airdodging, take note of this. The next time you are juggling, fastfall with them and punish the airdodge.

Closer to The Ground
If you are closer to the ground, do not jump high to follow your enemy. Instead, try and stay closer to the ground at about FH height. Keep them up in the air by using a FFUair. If they airdodge past this, the fastfall allows you to punish the airdodge with either an Usmash/tilt/throw to reset the juggling situation. At higher percents, this method will kill depending on the stage.

Some characters are easier to juggle than others, and this thread will rate how easy it is to juggle every character on the roster, as well as what moves they can use to effectively escape your juggle traps. the scale is from 1-10, 1 being extremely hard to juggle and the opponent can punish you for trying, and 10 being very easy to juggle and the opponent will have an almost impossible time trying to punish you.



Characters:



Rating: 6/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Bowser's weight may make him seem like an ideal character for juggling, right? CORRECT! His Down-B packs a punch and sends him straight to the ground, but it is so laggy it doesn't mater. It's kind of sad actually.



Rating: 7/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Falcon isn't that hard to juggle, he has a Dair meteor smash, and even though it has OK range, it can still be outranged by all of your moves used for juggling. His Down-B sends him downward at a slight angle, but it doesn't have super armor or anything so you can repeat the cycle after he uses it.



Rating: 3/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Diddy should always have his bananas with/near him, so he can get one in his hand, and then throw it down at you in between Uairs, which then enables him to DI away and escape your juggle traps. His Dair also spikes, but you outrange it so it doesn't play a big part in this.



Rating: 8/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: If you space right, this works. DK's spike has pretty good range, but it is just his foot and not disjointed, so you can hit him without any real risk of being spiked. DK's heavy *** isn't too hard to juggle.



Rating: 7/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Falco can be juggled if you space well. His Dair doesn't have great range, and unlike Fox, his reflector doesn't stall him. If you can space Uairs well, then go for it, but be wary of the spike and don't let him get to close to you vertically. I suppose if he wanted to he could use Up-B to return to the ground, but I doubt it, it's a bit too laggy.



Rating: 4/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Fox is the fastest faller in Brawl, so he will fall quickly into your next Uair after you use one on him. This would make it seem like it would be easy to juggle him, except that his Dair is good, and he can Shine stall. Hid Dair is really not a problem, it isn't disjointed, but his Shine stalling will throw off your timing and mess you up.



Rating: 2/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: You really don't want to try this. His Dair is not only a good meteor smash, but it's also disjointed. He can use this to hit you and escape, and his Dair can kill you if you are at high percents. He can also use his up-B and DI away and then AD and turtle or Nair you.



Rating: 7/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: This is a lot like trying to juggle CF, but Ganon's spikes are more powerful. You outrange his spikes well but the power of the spikes makes it crucial to space your moves well. This will work in most situations just don't get careless.



Rating: 7/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: The IC's don't have many options below them to take out opponents. Their Dair really sucks, and you outrange it. All the really have is Airdodge, but it they De-synch it can mess you up as always.



Rating: 4/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Watch out for Ike's Dair! It is a very powerful spike, so don't get careless. That being said, it is pretty slow, but I think it outranges your options, so be careful. There are easier ways to rack up dmage against Ike than juggling, and I do not recommend it. He can also use Up-B I guess, but you can Counter that. His B also has super armor and is very powerful.



Rating: 2/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Amazing aerial maneuverability+Dair+great Side-B=Not going to work.



Rating: 3/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: His Dair can go through all of your moves really... His falling Dair is pretty stupid though and can be easily punished. His Dair has great range, and this plus his extra jumps makes it hard to hit him. You should also always watch out for Bair as well against D3, you never know.



Rating: 1/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Kirby might be the hardest person for Marth to juggle. DO NOT TRY THIS! Kirby has a great Down-B that is impenetrable except by a grab, which of course you can't do in the air. Once you hit him, he can just use this to immediately get back to the ground. His Up-B also sends him downwards after the rising part, but the Down-B is to be feared more, since it can kill at pretty high percents.



Rating: 6/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Link has a falling Dair but it DOES NOT METEOR. He really only has bombs, which are obnoxious but can be maneuvered through with out too much effort, and caught as well.



Rating: 4/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Lucario has a really good Dair. It sends you off at a weird angle and it can kill. The main thing that it can help Lucario with while he's being juggled, is because it helps him stall, like Fox's Dair. This is very annoying. This won't really work, you will probably just end up getting punished by his Dair, and that can be fatal at high percentages.



Rating: 5/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Lucas as a very powerful spike with his Bair. This is bad for Marth in between Uairs, so be careful. His Dair is also a very good move for racking up damage, since it can do up to 20% damage when fresh. It is disjointed on the little hexagon's that come out.



Rating: 5/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Luigi is a weird character to juggle. A lot of his moves have weird properties, like his Down-B. He can use that to go upwards, which will pretty much negate your juggling possibilities on him. His Side-B can also help him escape if he has enough time, but if you time your Uairs well you can mess that up.



Rating: 4/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Another guy with stall techniques, this time with his Cape (Side-B). This will mess you up, and he can then stall->punish you with his Cape->Dair, and his Dair is a good multihit move.



Rating: 7/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Marth vs. Marth, the Marth under will probably win. Upper Marth has only Dair really, and a perfect;y spaced Uair outranges it I believe. If he wiffs Dair, you can easily punish the long lag time afterwards.



Rating: 6/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Believe it or not, MK actually is not that hard to juggle. His Dair is extremely fast, definitely faster than your Uair, but you outrange it. He can Nado you if he wants to, but if he is too far off the ground you can hit him back up before he gets back on the ground. This can actually be a reliable way to rack up damage against Meta Knight.



Rating: 5/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Ness has Dair to mess with you, he is a lot like Lucas in that aspect, except his PK thunder goes through you. If he wants to he can aim it at him towards you, and that can kill.



Rating: 4/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Olimar's Whistle (Down-B) has super-armor and he won't take knock-back when hit during it. This will let him abuse this and return safely to the ground and continue the fight there, where he likes it. His Dair can also spike, but the Whistle is the real thing he can use to escape. The good thing is, he can't punish you for trying except with Dair, which you outrange anyway.



Rating: 2/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Try this if you want, but this isn't going to work well at all. Peach can float to stall above you and get out of it very easily. As an added bonus, she can also throw a Veggie down at you if she has one with her, and there is a good chance she does.



Rating: 3/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: This is not something you really want to try. If Pika airdodges a Uair, then he can use a Down-B to not only hit you for a lot of damage, but also stall in the air while it hits him. His aerials aren't too much of a threat here. He can also DI away a bit, not even out of the juggle trap, and then use a B which goes downwards and at about a 45 degree angle in the way he is facing. This has a slight stun, but possibly just enough to buy him enough time to DI out.



Rating: 4/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: This isn't really going to work past 1-2 Uairs because Pit can glide out and then arrow you to keep you away. He cannot really punish you for trying, like TL can, but he can get out easily.



Rating: 5/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Samus is very floaty, so she'll be falling slower and stay farther above you, so you'll have to repeatedly land to keep her farther up. Her Dair, although slow, is a spike, and disjointed as well I believe, so watch out for that.

:shiek:

Rating: 3/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Sheik can use her Dair, which sends her straight to the ground, or her Up-B to get back on stage, negating your ability to juggle her. With her Up-B though, if she is too high off the ground, she can be re-juggled if you continue the Uair cycle. Sheik isn't a great character to attempt this on.



Rating: 9/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: His Dair is really bad, so it's really only airdodge, but even then it is easy to wait it out and then punish and continue juggling.



Rating: 3/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Another falling Dair, a bit like Sheik's. This makes him hard to juggle and so it isn't a great idea to try. Also, his Up-b can be used to help him DI away after he uses it. There are much easier ways to get damage on this guy.



Rating: 2/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: TL is just like link in this aspect of the game, his Dair, when used in between your attacks, will send him straight to the ground, thus making it very hard to keep him up. He can also throw a bomb down at you and then DI away. Toon Link is one of the harder characters to juggle with Marth.



Rating: 4/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: I believe Marth's Uair does outrange all of his aerials while you are below him, but with his amazing maneuverability in the air, he could probably DI off to the side and land. He can also use his bike to get out of it.



Rating: 7/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Wolf's Dair isn't disjointed and it also has limited range below him, Uair easily outranges it, even when not spaced perfectly. His Shine does have invincibility frames, so he can shine through it and get back on the stage.



Rating: 3/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Yoshi's Down-B is a lot like Bowser's. It will send him to the ground and is fairly powerful, albeit not as much as Bowser's. This will effectively put him back on the ground. This won't really work well.



Rating: 6/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: Zelda has a bretty bad Dair. This negates some options of her's, but she can still use her Up-B to teleport to the ground. If she is too high though, like Sheik, she can be hit back up, re-starting the cycle.



Rating: 4/10
Opponent's Effective Interrupting Moves: ZSS has her Down-B to escape in an arc away from you. Her Dair also sends her straight to the ground, but is kind of laggy. The Down-B can also be cancelled into a kick that spikes, so watch out for that as well.

CREDITS:

Huge thanks to ZMT for helping right this, he wrote some of the summaries you see here!

Thanks also to crazn137 for his help with the Overview section!

Also, huge thanks to everyone who indirectly helped me make this by posting their knowledge of this on the Marth Boards!


Feel free to add suggestions for each character or for the general area. I hope this helps all of you with your games', happy juggling!

More will be up tomorrow hopefully!

 

[crazn137]

I'll PM suggestions for some of the juggling descriptions later

 

[Remzi]

Nice job SOLID, very informative

I still think DK is the easiest character to juggle in the game, though. Like an 8-9/10

 

[3xSwords]

I'm sorry but there are some misconceptions here. For example.... Characters with powerful spikes but lots of post lag afterwards are not to be so feared such as Ganon or DK if you can outrange them. If they do land a spike than tech and you can hit them out of their post lag. Also against Ganon you can hit him out of both his dair and his downB same with Falcon.

When uair juggling you should never go past the FH range. Meaning don't use your second jump (unless you have properly conditioned them etc), once you use your second jump that's when tactics such as Pika dodging uair and thundering works. If you stick to just FH'ing and SH'ing a lot of these counter tactics are rendered meaningless.

Especially stall tactics will be rendered meaningless if you FF properly as you will have very little lag upon landing so character that stalls>counterattack will only find himself get hit with a utilt/u-smash, unless they outrange that too.

 

[UWOcho]

i think you really need to explain that (i'll put this in quotes in case you want to take it direct) "the reason you should shff uairs is because they autocancel (autocancelling them cancels out the lag you get after the aerial). This allows you to initiate another uair or a utilt to get the opponent back in the air, and to continue your juggling."

After all, this guide is for newer marths, as all of the experienced players already know this.

More feedback when I get past the intro.

 

[Steel]

A lot of this stuff is off. And you didn't even mention B-reversals for any character. Snake has much more than a dair and an air dodge.

 

[o0gosu0o]

A lot of this stuff is off. And you didn't even mention B-reversals for any character. Snake has much more than a dair and an air dodge.

yeah you should reconsider snake a bit more

 

[J4pu]

Link's Dair spikes? lol whut?

 

[feardragon64]

It needs a little revision. A few facts need to be straighted out. =\ Keep working on it. It's a good idea though.

Also I think there's a lot of stuff you didn't account for/address. Snake's c4 drop. The mind games involved in juggling. Samus' bombs. Recovering to the ledge. Etc. It's a work in progress.

 

[grandmaster192]

I think you have mk too high.

I don't see how you can juggle him that well when he 5 jumps and can just dair camp, and what if he is gliding? It just doesnlt seem like a good idea to try and air juggle mk to me.

If there is some secret I don't know that let's you juggle mk that easily, I guess I am wrong then.

 

[3xSwords]

I personally disagree with a lot of these ratings

Here's a sample (I'm busy so I can't say more):

DK: The monkey ain't getting past this. You outrange him and your uair is faster. If he initiates a dair early and FF's it than don't try and fight it head on. Just dodge it by FF'ing or AD'ing and there is more than enough post lag for you to reset the situation. (8/10)

Ganon: Same story with DK. People assume he is powerful from above because his dair is so powerful however that has no bearings when you are onstage and outrange him. This is more 7/10 because Ganon could mix up downB and Dair to catch you off guard but you outrange both options.
(Same story for Falcon)

Jigglypuff: This may be a mixed opinion sort of thing however her Dair sucks. Idk why you think it's good. It's range is crap and it's only good because of dair>rest. When attempting to juggle her, it's more of a waiting game as you slowly eliminate all her jumps one by one, then whenever she decides to do something just uair>FF>repeat (or reset situation and then repeat) (8/10)

D3: If he FF's dair then he has landing lag and you can easily escape and screw him over. The only option you have to be really worried about is FF'ing bair. It's essential that you stay directly below him at all times. (6/10)

TL: Wow 2/10? Really? If you get him to use a dair it's a good thing. He misses YAY! Reset Time!! Be more worried about his bombs. More like 5/10 because of bombs. Positioning is crucial here too. You don't want to be directly below him, more like to the side then directly below.

That's not all. But here's another thing about juggling. Where you are before you jump and while in the air in relation to your opponent is CRITICAL. Everybody says juggling is easy and all that and it is because the concept is extremely easy to understand, however it there are more factors than opponent's dair range vs. your uair range which determine a successful juggle. With proper positioning, seemingly impossible juggles become possible. Another example (excluding those mentioned above) is G&W. It seems impossible at first, but as long as you can get underneath his backside than you will have a successful juggle, this is due to the key's location when he points it down. So always take positioning into account.

And remember also juggling isn't always with uair. As long as you can reset the situation you are good.

Sorry this is like Juggling 101 but I felt some important things just were being overlooked.

 

[magikguy]

with these results , makes juggling look useless .. most characters are 5 and under.

 

[feardragon64]

^I'd disagree on a few things. Jigglypuff has a pretty ridiculous aerial mobility so she's a huge pain in the *** to juggle. Especially at higher percents where she has lots of time to fake you out near an edge, i.e. land on stage or grab onto the ledge. Jiggs is far from an 8 in the juggling departent. Having enough jumps to spare one for faking out to get marth to whiff a uair doesn't hurt either.

DDD I disagree on too. Jumping dair is annoyingly effective since he has multiple jumps. Fast fall dair is stupid though I agree. Multiple jumps will own so many juggling attempts because you can evoke an early reaction and use that to your advantage. Fast fallers can evoke a reaction and punish with another aerial and people with good aerial mobility can use the time to change direction and land.

For the most part though I agree with what you said.

 

[ArcPoint]

Yeah Solid, you didn't quite take everything into account... but that's okay, like people have said before, it's a work in progress.

 

[Jibbles]

Effective Interrupting Moves: I don't recommend trying to juggle Falcon. he has two spikes (His Down-B and his Dair)

Unless I'm mistaken Falcon Kick doesn't meteor.

 

[Shaya]

When it comes down to it, if you want to make this list shmick.

Take the 'ranked list' of aerial mobility for characters.

Every character that's below Marth's aerial mobility is ++ for juggling.

THEN EVALUATE there moves.

For example, Kirby's down b doesn't automaticly make it a 1/10 in my opinion. That **** thing has A LAGGY START UP, and as long as they're not too far above you before hand they're in for juggling. If they rock Marth should generally have enough ability to dodge it/manouver away; AND THEN PUNISH HIM FOR IT (LIKE WITH A LULZ, UPSMASH OR FF TO NAIR OR SOMETHING).

Characters with better aerial mobility than Marth can of course be juggled but they are naturally harder too. Wolf can be juggled even with better mobility, but his shine can generally render it impossible anyway.

Another point to remember is that Marth's arc of the sword during the uair is actually quite large. Most characters downairs do not have a hitbox WIDE ENOUGH to cover Marth's entire sword. HENCE why characters with bad aerial mobility are most perceptable, they struggle to use a move (like a dair) that can hit you if you're spacing your uair well.

D3's dair can easily be outdone by Marth's uair if you aim towards the side of his body...

 

[feardragon64]

^A smart kirby will down b off the stage anywho. He'll come out of it JUST below the ledge so he's vulnerable for maybe half a second(hardly enough time to catch up dair spike or something, and auto-grab onto the ledge. I have a feeling this sounds fairly stupid but kirby's down b is actually fairly good, just not a 1/10 as you say.
Meh, basically Kirby isn't EASY to juggle. I'd put him as a 2 or 3 just cause multiple jumps, disjointed dair with a decent range(his feet are disjointed >>) his down b, pretty good aerial mobility, fast fall bair(same thought lines along DDD), etc.

But ya, uair has a pretty wide hitbox. Good point there.

 

[3xSwords]

@ Shaya's point you should also take into consideration Marth's running speed compared to their aerial mobility. Positioning on the ground before the jump will determine whether or not you will be successful more than if you try and compete with your aerial mobility vs their aerial mobility.

 

[ChaosKnight]

i disagree on the DDD 2/10 thats just cant be true cause not every Ddd is gonna do down air all the time. when coming down and if a DDD starts to recover you can totally catch him on it and start a jungle trap. his airdodge may seem very quick but its all about predicting i suggest make it more like 5/10

 

[3xSwords]

With D3 the thing you should worry about most is his FF bair. If he does jump and dair to stall in the air, if you get hit by it, you can DI to the side then jump and hit him or you could keep jumping and FF uair until he decides to actually do something to get onto the ground.

 

[Daea]

I personally disagree with a lot of these ratings

Ganon: Same story with DK. People assume he is powerful from above because his dair is so powerful however that has no bearings when you are onstage and outrange him. This is more 7/10 because Ganon could mix up downB and Dair to catch you off guard but you outrange both options.
(Same story for Falcon)

I agree with almost all of the stuff you posted, but I have to disagree about your opinion of Ganon...I'm not as afraid of the dair because of its laggy startup, and the fact that usually you'll be juggling with the stage underneath you, so worse comes to worse you'll get meteor'd into the stage if you screw up. However, I think you seriously underestimate his down B kick. That thing has ridiculous upwards killing power when it doesn't meteor, and I don't think I'd want to risk dying at a ridiculously low percent just to get a juggle in. Yeah, maybe you do outrange it, but is it really worth it to try and time a uair against an attack that lasts for a bit, doesn't have poor speed coming down, and will probably kill you if you miss-time it?

 

[3xSwords]

If you don't want to take the risk then *shrug* ok, but with just a bit of practice you can cover this risk. Really it's not that bad. Also you don't even need to take it head on. Since it's slightly angle you can hit with the ending arc of your uair and easily hit him out of down B. This is one of those things that you can take care of with practice, so uair juggling Ganon is viable in my eyes.

 

[∫unk]

MK - 1/10
Snake - 10/10
Everyone else - 5/10

 

[BacklashMarth]

MK - 1/10
Snake - 10/10
Everyone else - 5/10

This post is the tr00f.

 

[Pierce7d]

Solid, you PMed me BEFORE creating this thread, and I pointed out a few of your blatent errors (Like Link's Dair and Falcon Kick not meteor smashing).

Why did you ignore everything I told you, especially including how much aerial mobility was a factor.

 

[Alterhalo]

If you don't want to take the risk then *shrug* ok, but with just a bit of practice you can cover this risk. Really it's not that bad. Also you don't even need to take it head on. Since it's slightly angle you can hit with the ending arc of your uair and easily hit him out of down B. This is one of those things that you can take care of with practice, so uair juggling Ganon is viable in my eyes.

I agree with you a ganon can be juggled if you do it from an angle I did it to my friend before and he mains ganon it was an accident though XD

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

It needs a little revision. A few facts need to be straighted out. =\ Keep working on it. It's a good idea though.

Also I think there's a lot of stuff you didn't account for/address. Snake's c4 drop. The mind games involved in juggling. Samus' bombs. Recovering to the ledge. Etc. It's a work in progress.

Oh snap, I forgot Snake's C4 drop? I swear I thought that was in.


I like the criticism actually, that's how this will improve. I'll take everything you guys said into account and revise it, remember, this is only a work in progress as of now.

 

[VietGeek]

You should more accurately say "Work in Progress" than "More to Come," which means more depth will arrive, but implies everything already present is fairly accurate.

 

[∫unk]

lol solid getting slammed and i haven't said anything

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I know I was just thinking about that Junk, it's weird!


I changed it Viet.

 

[Punishment Divine]

Snake is definitely not that easy to juggle. He may be the character who you most WANT to juggle, bu he has tons of options. He can airdodge, FF bair, drop C4, nair, pluck out a nade to reset the situation, he can even Up-B to something.

I'd give him like, a 5 or 6 out of 10.

That is the main problem I have, but I also think you should delve deeper into all of these and consider things like start up lag, ending lag, ability to retreat to the ledge, range, and also ease to get into the trap itself.

 

[3xSwords]

Snake is definitely not that easy to juggle. He may be the character who you most WANT to juggle, bu he has tons of options. He can airdodge, FF bair, drop C4, nair, pluck out a nade to reset the situation, he can even Up-B to something.

I'd give him like, a 5 or 6 out of 10.

That is the main problem I have, but I also think you should delve deeper into all of these and consider things like start up lag, ending lag, ability to retreat to the ledge, range, and also ease to get into the trap itself.

The main thing he has is momentum shift and air dodging really. Gernades are nice and all but they make him a sitting duck if he doesn't already have one in his hands. You outrange his other options. He really is more 7-8 than 5-6

 

[Punishment Divine]

The main thing he has is momentum shift and air dodging really. Gernades are nice and all but they make him a sitting duck if he doesn't already have one in his hands. You outrange his other options. He really is more 7-8 than 5-6

No. Just...no. You're oversimplifying it. Nades come out really quick and when held can scare you away. C4 scares you away. Fast fall bair has WTF priority. You have to be really, really careful and precise.

I think the rating on this would how easy it is for the character to counter your trap, and Snake definitely has the tools to get through your trap. It's also not that easy to set up on him. The only logical way to start it is Dancing Blade Up or grabbing him out of an AD. IDK, I find that if you're not absolutely precise Snake can really **** you out of your traps.

 

[3xSwords]

No. Just...no. You're oversimplifying it. Nades come out really quick and when held can scare you away. C4 scares you away. Fast fall bair has WTF priority. You have to be really, really careful and precise.

I think the rating on this would how easy it is for the character to counter your trap, and Snake definitely has the tools to get through your trap. It's also not that easy to set up on him. The only logical way to start it is Dancing Blade Up or grabbing him out of an AD. IDK, I find that if you're not absolutely precise Snake can really **** you out of your traps.

FF bair does NOT have WTF priority. What are you talking about? Your uair will beat it everytime, if it doesn't you were too slow.

Nades: So he pulls one out in the air and he is falling. What does he do next? Do one of his throws? No. All he can do is hold it and wait to hit the ground before rolling or whatever. If you space correctly you can hit him into the air again without detonating the nade. Or you can just fall and grab him right before he hits the ground than u-throw and reset situation. It only becomes confusing when he starts momentum shifting with the nade.

C4 should not scare you away. Unless he is way up in the sky this tactic is not effective because 1) He doesn't want to detonate himself so he must be some distance away from it (attack him before he reaches that distance) and 2) his aim is really just to scare you away, unless you do something stupid like stand right next to the C4 or something. Just stay directly under Snake and you should be fine. Again momentum shifting probably what screws you up.

Now I actually have to change my mind this is more of 6-7 IMO because momentum shifting can really catch one of guard. although IDK how much momentum shifting actually affects escaping the juggle trap because I rarely see it being used (although it is) so....

 

[Punishment Divine]

FF bair does NOT have WTF priority. What are you talking about? Your uair will beat it everytime, if it doesn't you were too slow.

Nades: So he pulls one out in the air and he is falling. What does he do next? Do one of his throws? No. All he can do is hold it and wait to hit the ground before rolling or whatever. If you space correctly you can hit him into the air again without detonating the nade. Or you can just fall and grab him right before he hits the ground than u-throw and reset situation. It only becomes confusing when he starts momentum shifting with the nade.

C4 should not scare you away. Unless he is way up in the sky this tactic is not effective because 1) He doesn't want to detonate himself so he must be some distance away from it (attack him before he reaches that distance) and 2) his aim is really just to scare you away, unless you do something stupid like stand right next to the C4 or something. Just stay directly under Snake and you should be fine. Again momentum shifting probably what screws you up.

Now I actually have to change my mind this is more of 6-7 IMO because momentum shifting can really catch one of guard. although IDK how much momentum shifting actually affects escaping the juggle trap because I rarely see it being used (although it is) so....

Snake may be a 7 on Battlefield and maybe Lylat, but on almost every other stage he's either 5-6. It is NOT due to momentum shifting, though. Snakes around you just don't use enough FF bair or nades if you think they're too scared to pull one out or lay down right through you. Nades will single handidly reset the situation and probably put Snake back on ground and bair lasts for a really long time while having great priority. You would have to perfectly space a uair. IMO if you have to perfectly do something, it's not that easy to pull off. And then you have to take into effect that if you're usmashing/utilting/uairing and you miss, he CAN bair through it or even get you in an nair.

 

[Shaya]

Ill have to back up PD a bit here. FF Bair is a really annoying move from Snake that can stutter juggling. Mainly because that ****ing hitbox for the thing is his ENTIRE BODY INCLUDING HIS GOD **** HEAD SO IF YOU TRY TO HIT HIM FROM WHERE IT SHOULDNT HIT IT HITS ANYWAY WTF KSGaskdfa

 

[BacklashMarth]

I agree about FF Bair not being used nearly as much as it probably should but im gonna have to go with 3xSwords on this one. Grendades and C4 are more of a liability than an asset to snake escaping a juggle trap. Personally i wouldnt mind hitting snake with and uair and giving him 18% or so of his own medicine (this means i hit the nade). How easy it is to trap snake in the jungle depends all on the skill level of the marth really. A marth that can juggle well, will find snake a fairly easy character to set up and execute a juggle on with a little practice under your belt. So long as the bair doesnt have a disjointed hitbox then you can space your uair to hit snake from the side preferably in his head.

 

[feardragon64]

Snake is much heavier than marth. Not only that, you guys are completely neglecting that Snake has wtfftilt and wtfutilt for kills. Marth doesn't have safe kill moves. Snake would PREFER for both of you to rack up damage equally. If Marth wants to win(unless he gets a gimp) he has to rack up more damage than snake does to get his kills. Otherwise Snake will win just by logic. He kills sooner and lives longer. Logic.

Every time Snake and Marth take the same amount of damage from grenades Snake gets more and more of an advantage. Don't think it's not a viable option for snake.

As for fast falled bair, it's good but it's a matter of timing. You still have a longer range than him. It's def. more difficult though and if you mistime your uair or whatever move you're using, you'll get nailed and the juggle will probably end. It's not the end all be all way for snake to get out of juggles, it can be defeated. But it does make the juggle more difficult because there's less room for mistakes.

Edit: point taken to 3x's edit below....hmm.....interesting....

 

[3xSwords]

Ill have to back up PD a bit here. FF Bair is a really annoying move from Snake that can stutter juggling. Mainly because that ****ing hitbox for the thing is his ENTIRE BODY INCLUDING HIS GOD **** HEAD SO IF YOU TRY TO HIT HIM FROM WHERE IT SHOULDNT HIT IT HITS ANYWAY WTF KSGaskdfa

Who gives a crap if its his whole ****in body? You have a ****in SWORD!!!! I have played Snake in a Marth vs Snake matchup and I know that FF bair is something that should be used sparingly otherwise I just get outspaced. The main ways I can get out of a juggle is by either momentum shifting C4 or nade of FF AD'ing which is really effective due to Snake's FF speed that allows you too zip right past Marth. Other than that Snake has nothing really and what does being perfect have to do with anything? Really if you are Marth you are expected to space your aerials at tipper range without error.

Edit: @ Fear I believe that he takes uair damage and nade damage so.....

 

[Punishment Divine]

Who gives a crap if its his whole ****in body? You have a ****in SWORD!!!! I have played Snake in a Marth vs Snake matchup and I know that FF bair is something that should be used sparingly otherwise I just get outspaced. The main ways I can get out of a juggle is by either momentum shifting C4 or nade of FF AD'ing which is really effective due to Snake's FF speed that allows you too zip right past Marth. Other than that Snake has nothing really and what does being perfect have to do with anything? Really if you are Marth you are expected to space your aerials at tipper range without error.

Edit: @ Fear I believe that he takes uair damage and nade damage so.....

But the fact is, if you DO mess up, even a little, you're eating something that hits hard, fast, and has a **** ton of knockback. You have to perfectly tip that uair, and God forbid if you were trying to do something else, because I've had Snakes go THROUGH, or so it seems, my utilts and usmashes hardly ever work.

If Snake was a 7 or 8 to juggle, we wouldn't have a negative matchup with him. And I fully agree with fear's statement about nades, because Snake is heavy and never dies and has wtftilts. He could care less if he takes damage, because he will kill you quicker, even if he takes nade and uair.