Jigglypuff for Top Tier?

[X1-12]

Just for the record, If marths start doing this and beat jiggs' i do want the credit

dont jump
dont use any smash attacks
only grab her if she's sheilding
Be gay, dont try to combo much
Jabs and F-tilts - do NOT F-smash do NOT attack her sheild

 

[x After Dawn x]

grabbing jiggs with marth can be hard and often not worth it if you're not understanding the jiggs' spacing.

matchup is stupid. like the fox matchup, if jiggs makes a mistake, it usually doesn't mean anything unless it was a missed rest, but marth gets heavily punished for stupidly small mistakes.

also your advice isn't really that great, are you saying marth shouldn't be doing any aerials and should just sit there and spam ftilt and jabs? cause that's completely wrong. and there's nothing wrong with combo'ing into an fsmash, like if they miss the DI or manage not to get out of fthrow > fsmash. it just shouldn't be used as liberally as other matchups because you get ***** if you miss one.

 

[demodemo]

marth isnt that good, lol

imo, worse than puff

dunno about puff being the best tho

 

[Requiem]

Just for the record, If marths start doing this and beat jiggs' i do want the credit

That's already whats being done, and the advice that just about EVERY decent marth player would give though :B

 

[x After Dawn x]

marth isnt that good, lol

imo, worse than puff

dunno about puff being the best tho

come to west coast (AB + BC) and play some of our top marths and you will most likely change that opinion of yours lol

 

[Raistlin]

It is quite frustrating watching people who don't even play Jigglypuff discuss the merits of the character, because you have no idea what it's like playing from the Jiggly's side. First off, I keep seeing Doc mentioned as a possible Jiggs counter, and that is just false. I've played some good Docs, and while it's not an easy matchup by any means, his lack of range and overall slow movement make it so he can't be as gay as his projectile would otherwise allow him to be. He has a rather limited and predicable recovery as well, and he can in fact be up-tilted or up-aired to a rest. Although, in his defense, his cape allows for very damaging punishments for a missed rest.

Also, after playing a lot of Sheiks, and watching some other Jiggs do the matchup, I am starting to doubt Sheik's dominance in the matchup. It is just soooooo easy to rest her, even without combos. If you hold down the whole match, you're pretty much guaranteed a rest per stock lol. Also, she can't kill you from a missed rest at 30% like most of the other top tiers, so you can spam rest a lot more against her. Her strongest move is upsmash, and it doesn't kill until after 50 or 60 on most stages. She could always change to Zelda and use the toe to kill earlier, but most Sheiks don't think about that, and don't use Zelda enough to be able to properly space the attack.

Marth is a little different. His lack of a projectile makes it harder for him to effectively play gay/campy against Jigglypuff, but his sword has some stupid range. The biggest problem is that it is actually a lot easier to punish him than some people think. An errant shielded forward smash or an ill-timed grab means he just lost a stock, and even without rest Jigglypuff can very effectively edgeguard him despite his **** sword.

Fox is the only true counter to Jiggs, and even then it's only slight because of how easily she can **** him up if he makes the smallest of mistakes. Screw up a wavedash or miss an l-cancel too close to Jiggylpuff, and you've basically forfeited your stock. However, if you keep your distance, you are allowed more mistakes. Big stages like Dreamland actually favor Fox in this match-up, because it allows him more room to retreat. I have long hated Dreamland because I have a friend who has learned to play extremely campy, and it is next to impossible to catch a determinedly gay Fox on that stage.

Jigglypuff wins, more than anythign else, because she is the best punisher in the game. Sure, her aerials are pretty **** good and her aerial mobility make her pretty hard to track down most of the time, but she beats most people because she can punish the smallest of errors with a one frame kill move. The key to defeating her is to reduce the number of mistakes you make, but more importantly to reduce the number of OPPORTUNITIES you have to make mistakes. Any time you approach or make the first move, you are opening yourself up to making a mistake because you are giving the Jigglypuff a chance to react to your action, which in turn makes you adjust to meet their move. When you force them to make all the first moves, you won't make as many mistakes that can be punished with rest.

Jigglypuff is an extremely good character, and I would not disagree with adding her in the top tier. However, I do think that Marth and Falco are pretty even with her, and that Fox is slightly better.

 

[Requiem]

I would like to see more posts like that from the jigglypuff players.

Hbox get in this thread!

 

[The Good Doctor]

Just the fact that the smallest mistake can lead to a GUARANTEED KILL should put her in top tier. When if you miss a grab against anyother character you actually get the chance to DI the attack when your below 30%.

How can people say a character with a VERY VERY VERY VERY RELIABLE ONE HIT KILL MOVE ISNT THE BEST!.

4 mistakes in one match against her, no matter how small they are are potiential stocks, it's not hard to rest a missed smash, grab, or L Cancel.

 

[Requiem]

Yeah we know that point by now, either stop repeating yourself/others, or gtfo ;o

 

[The Good Doctor]

Yeah we know that point by now, either stop repeating yourself/others, or gtfo ;o

Then why are still debating this. Obv the same things will be repeated when they are the reason why she should be top tier.

Use your head, they either put her in top tier or they can keep hearing the complaint train about her arials, rest, and lack of the need of a technical game. What else can be said besides "Oh she's pink she's the best."

Don't be in the thread of you want to stop hearing the same valid points over and over again that can't be refuted.

 

[Evil Nemesis]

First post. Would just like to say look out mango and hbox. enjoy trashing ****ty players who dont know the puff matchup. i'll be sure to dethrone you guys in a year or twos time.

 

[gm jack]

Hang on, are you saying no top player has decided to try and learn the matchup in the 3 years of Mango's dominance with puff? As people have pointed out, the trouble is that dealing with jiggs isn't too bad, but the punishment for a single mistake is so great that you are never safe.

 

[Evil Nemesis]

Hang on, are you saying no top player has decided to try and learn the matchup in the 3 years of Mango's dominance with puff? As people have pointed out, the trouble is that dealing with jiggs isn't too bad, but the punishment for a single mistake is so great that you are never safe.

pretty much yeah.

 

[xbombr]

LMAO@ banning a high tier character.

 

[Strong Badam]

Or just ban her and start having fun playing this stupid game. Jiggs is literally the only match up that feels like boring tedious work. I put in all my effort into playing safe, but one mistake and I'm down a stock.

Boring tedious work? Try fighting Samus, Luigi, or Peach, lol. To be fair, they don't have OHKO's or anything, but it's still boring to fight them correctly.

I'm interested in how people are saying that Mango has dominated for 3 years when he won Pound 3 in 2008, and didn't win a big tournament before then, though he was 2nd on the SoCal Power Rankings for a while until Ken retired/Pound 3 when he moved up. He didn't "dominate with puff," at that point, at any rate.

 

[hungrybox]

I would like to see more posts like that from the jigglypuff players.

Hbox get in this thread!

Cool story bros.

I am completely misguided after reading some of these posts.










Look, I'm sorry if I play SSBM REALLY REALLY ANNOYING AND GAY, but why is it that this whole "banning jiggs" thing wasn't incited when Mango was destroying all the tournaments with her? Regardless of the fact that he pretty much mains Falco.

It's unfair. I train for weeks and I get 2nd place at the biggest Melee tournament ever and 3rd at the next largest tournament ever, only to see that people want to ban the character I use.

HEY GUYZ I'LL GO ALL FALCO AT A TOURNAMENT

OH LOOK I GOT 2ND YAY
BUT WAIT MANGO PLAYS FALCO AND HE GOT 1ST
AND LOOK ANOTHER FALCO GOT 17TH???
PREPOSTEROUS!!!
LET'S BAN FALCO












this is bull****.

It's stuff like this that preoccupies me and makes me question the validity of the forums, or even the community itself.

My secondaries are awful. Last night I played Capn Crunch, my OLD training partner who got me good at the game, and my secondaries were destroying him because he didn't know the matchups too well. Then I went Jiggs, and we were going FIFTY-FIFTY. This guy doesn't even place in tourneys. It JUST SO HAPPENS that he plays Fox/Jiggs matchup CORRECTLY and doesn't whine about her.


Mango could care less if Jiggs gets banned. He's actually got 4 other secondaries WHICH HE TRAINS WITH. You guys would succumb to his every request. Fanboy bull****.

NOTE that I took Mango's Jiggs to 5th game WF, My set vs. M2K was SUPER CLOSE, and nearly all my bracket matches went to THE LAST GAME.

IT ISN'T IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT JIGGS.

On the topic, Jiggs COULD be top tier, but in reality,

WHO GIVES A **** WHAT TIER SHE IS

Will being top tier make her magically better? Does having a Sticky make a tournament more legit? It's nothing more than a title, and I take back considering anything I've said regarding orders of tiers. It's a pointless argument.


It's OBVIOUS that people don't like my playstyle. I'm sorry, I can't do anything about it. I was playing Sheik and Falco and a bit of Fox for 3 hours last night, mostly shiek.

It's just not the same.

If Jiggs gets banned, I'll have to pick up a new character, LEARN EVERY ****ING MATCHUP ALL OVER AGAIN, LOSE CONSECUTIVELY AT TOURNAMENTS, LOSE MORAL, and probably quit smash and become a yodeler or some ****.

Yo DarkRain, Falcon's banned, so pick up Fox.

Hey Jman, we're banning Fox, but I'M SURE YOU'RE GOOD WITH SECONDARIES because CLEARLY you're good with fox, so it shouldn't be a problem amirite?

What's good, HMW? BTW Doc is banned, so just transfer all that skill to Shiek. IT'S EASY RIGHT?













no.


I do not and will not play other characters as good as I play jiggs.

I just happen to be a person that learns quickly, and I have training with MANY different characters due to my diverse crew, WATO.


Anyways I'm going to Disney now, TLDR JIGGS IS NOT THE BEST CHARACTER AND OTHER PLAYERS DO NOT KNOW THE MATCHUP YET.

 

[rhan]

If we start banning character then we'll start arguing about whichever character that is second best next to Jiggs and try to ban that character...

If anything we need to add the stages that we could actually use to CP against characters. Japes shouldn't have went. Greens is kinda understandable (Random Apples anyone?). Cornaria is like the only legit stage to pick against Jiggs.

Now that we are missing stages it makes it harder to pick a stage that Jiggs doesn't do better at then another character.

(I'm not Jiggs bashing, just saying that we need our stages back.)

 

[Toobz]

lol this is hilarious. I personally don't think Jiggs should be banned, I just wish people accepted the fact that she's AT LEAST top tier. IMO the current best character in the game, for reasons that have been previously stated.

Also I've played a very good samus a lot, and quite frankly I hate that match up too. But Samus can be punished much easier than Jiggs can.

 

[`Jammin' Jobus]

Lol no one was serious about asking for the banning of jigglypuff. thats was all jokes. We're saying she is top tier.


Because she is.

 

[-ACE-]

Lol no one was serious about asking for the banning of jigglypuff. thats was all jokes. We're saying she is top tier.


Because she is.

qft .

 

[Rubyiris]

Another jigglypuff main to shut up the scrubs.

Notice how Raistlin, Hungrybox, and Wobbles all disagree with most of you?

Notice how the three of them are infinitely better than most of the people who want puff either banned, or think she's top tier?

Hell, with the exception of M2K, I'm sure even I'M better than most of you and I look down on myself as a garbage player.

I could even post aim logs with several extremely well-known, skilled players who agree with me, and the jigglypuff mains about this matter, which would only be more, irrefutable proof that jigglypuff is high tier, NOT TOP TIER, and that people just don't understand the matchup.

 

[X1-12]

grabbing jiggs with marth can be hard and often not worth it if you're not understanding the jiggs' spacing.

matchup is stupid. like the fox matchup, if jiggs makes a mistake, it usually doesn't mean anything unless it was a missed rest, but marth gets heavily punished for stupidly small mistakes.

also your advice isn't really that great, are you saying marth shouldn't be doing any aerials and should just sit there and spam ftilt and jabs? cause that's completely wrong. and there's nothing wrong with combo'ing into an fsmash, like if they miss the DI or manage not to get out of fthrow > fsmash. it just shouldn't be used as liberally as other matchups because you get ***** if you miss one.

as for grabbing i definately did say only if she's sheilding....


everyones complaining about jiggs getting guarenteed rest from one punish, well thats how you avoid it, dont use moves that have much lag. I'm yet to find any jiggs approach that cant be beaten by a f/utilt or a jab with maybe a WD in there to space a bit

 

[Devil Ray]

wait, why was this thread made???? did jiggs win a tourny finally or something?

i thought jiggs was tied with falcon..................

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Lol yo u guys better agree that Jiggs is top tier or othervwise we're ****ing gonna ban her is that clear?

 

[SDC]

This thread is ********

<3 you Hbox

 

[null55]

lol i'm sick of this "who cares what tier she is!!?!?!11" ****...

this SHOULD basically be just an extension of the Melee Tier list discussion, which, yes, i guess has no "value" (whatever the **** that means, we're playing a ****ing videogame like 3 hours a day and dropping cash like it's nothing), but it's interesting to discuss drastic changes in these lists in an attempt to scientifically peg the correct order of character viability in this game we all love.

 

[VGmasta]

It is quite frustrating watching people who don't even play Jigglypuff discuss the merits of the character, because you have no idea what it's like playing from the Jiggly's side. First off, I keep seeing Doc mentioned as a possible Jiggs counter, and that is just false. I've played some good Docs, and while it's not an easy matchup by any means, his lack of range and overall slow movement make it so he can't be as gay as his projectile would otherwise allow him to be. He has a rather limited and predicable recovery as well, and he can in fact be up-tilted or up-aired to a rest. Although, in his defense, his cape allows for very damaging punishments for a missed rest.

Well I'll show you, lol.

Naw, this is quite true, Doc isn't necessarily a counter vs. Jiggs. I'm just being somewhat jokey when I say that kinda stuff. Just like about half of his matchups, I think Doc is too easily outspaced by Jiggs anyway. And I'm glad you know this matchup so well Patrick.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

tiers dont matter anymore. its obvious. they exist, thats for sure. but honestly its been shown that characters like pika, doc, and ganon CAN place well. its just that they have to be played much more efficiently, which takes an extremely high amount of experience.

 

[Rubyiris]

I'd also like to point out that I mained jigglypuff throughout most of 07 up until febuary 09. I'm not talking out my *** when it comes to jiggly's limitations.

 

[Dark Sonic]

PATRICK!

I need to fight you more Q_Q.

I'll show you all. I'll learn how to powershield bairs and d-smash/f-smash/uptilt out of them and Marth will will DESTROY Jigglypuff!

 

[Mew2King]

If Jiggs gets banned, I'll have to pick up a new character, LEARN EVERY ****ING MATCHUP ALL OVER AGAIN, LOSE CONSECUTIVELY AT TOURNAMENTS, LOSE MORAL, and probably quit smash and become a yodeler or some ****.


^ see that is why I don't want her banned but I am actually quitting melee and brawl if MK gets banned because it's unfair that I have to start over but other [better] characters like Diddy don't have to just because they are less popular and there will be no reason to travel to tourneys to make profit because I cannot profit if I wasted a year and a half on one character that I can't use anymore. If MK goes I am leaving smash.

 

[Raistlin]

Just the fact that the smallest mistake can lead to a GUARANTEED KILL should put her in top tier. When if you miss a grab against anyother character you actually get the chance to DI the attack when your below 30%.

What you're ignoring is that, with the exception of out of shield rests or ducks, every rest has to be comboed into, which allows for an opportunity to DI out of the hits or DI the up-throw. It's not like a grab is a guaranteed KO for Jiggs against Fox and Falco, and utilts, pounds, and upairs can all be DI'd, making it either more difficult to land the rest or not possible.

Also, as reliable as rest is, Jigglypuff's weight makes it a very high risk/high reward move against most characters used in tournament. It's not like she can throw it out at any time against any character like Falcon can with knee or Fox can with upsmash.

If we start banning character then we'll start arguing about whichever character that is second best next to Jiggs and try to ban that character...

If anything we need to add the stages that we could actually use to CP against characters. Japes shouldn't have went. Greens is kinda understandable (Random Apples anyone?). Cornaria is like the only legit stage to pick against Jiggs.

Now that we are missing stages it makes it harder to pick a stage that Jiggs doesn't do better at then another character.

(I'm not Jiggs bashing, just saying that we need our stages back.)

I'm sorry, but this is just ridiculous. Jigglypuff is not any better on the neutrals against most characters. In fact, Pokemon Stadium remains a really good CP/neutral because of its low ceiling and room to move around. Honestly, Jigglypuff needed the help provided by having Green Greens and Corneria banned, it's not like she's this unstoppable force. The other top and high tiers do not need gay counterpick stages for the matchup to be even.

Cool story bros.

I am completely misguided after reading some of these posts.










Look, I'm sorry if I play SSBM REALLY REALLY ANNOYING AND GAY, but why is it that this whole "banning jiggs" thing wasn't incited when Mango was destroying all the tournaments with her? Regardless of the fact that he pretty much mains Falco.

It's unfair. I train for weeks and I get 2nd place at the biggest Melee tournament ever and 3rd at the next largest tournament ever, only to see that people want to ban the character I use.

HEY GUYZ I'LL GO ALL FALCO AT A TOURNAMENT

OH LOOK I GOT 2ND YAY
BUT WAIT MANGO PLAYS FALCO AND HE GOT 1ST
AND LOOK ANOTHER FALCO GOT 17TH???
PREPOSTEROUS!!!
LET'S BAN FALCO












this is bull****.

It's stuff like this that preoccupies me and makes me question the validity of the forums, or even the community itself.

My secondaries are awful. Last night I played Capn Crunch, my OLD training partner who got me good at the game, and my secondaries were destroying him because he didn't know the matchups too well. Then I went Jiggs, and we were going FIFTY-FIFTY. This guy doesn't even place in tourneys. It JUST SO HAPPENS that he plays Fox/Jiggs matchup CORRECTLY and doesn't whine about her.


Mango could care less if Jiggs gets banned. He's actually got 4 other secondaries WHICH HE TRAINS WITH. You guys would succumb to his every request. Fanboy bull****.

NOTE that I took Mango's Jiggs to 5th game WF, My set vs. M2K was SUPER CLOSE, and nearly all my bracket matches went to THE LAST GAME.

IT ISN'T IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT JIGGS.

On the topic, Jiggs COULD be top tier, but in reality,

WHO GIVES A **** WHAT TIER SHE IS

Will being top tier make her magically better? Does having a Sticky make a tournament more legit? It's nothing more than a title, and I take back considering anything I've said regarding orders of tiers. It's a pointless argument.


It's OBVIOUS that people don't like my playstyle. I'm sorry, I can't do anything about it. I was playing Sheik and Falco and a bit of Fox for 3 hours last night, mostly shiek.

It's just not the same.

If Jiggs gets banned, I'll have to pick up a new character, LEARN EVERY ****ING MATCHUP ALL OVER AGAIN, LOSE CONSECUTIVELY AT TOURNAMENTS, LOSE MORAL, and probably quit smash and become a yodeler or some ****.

Yo DarkRain, Falcon's banned, so pick up Fox.

Hey Jman, we're banning Fox, but I'M SURE YOU'RE GOOD WITH SECONDARIES because CLEARLY you're good with fox, so it shouldn't be a problem amirite?

What's good, HMW? BTW Doc is banned, so just transfer all that skill to Shiek. IT'S EASY RIGHT?













no.


I do not and will not play other characters as good as I play jiggs.

I just happen to be a person that learns quickly, and I have training with MANY different characters due to my diverse crew, WATO.


Anyways I'm going to Disney now, TLDR JIGGS IS NOT THE BEST CHARACTER AND OTHER PLAYERS DO NOT KNOW THE MATCHUP YET.

^ this.

 

[Megachuk]

meta won't go, dont worry so much about it. Smart players know better. Just try to play gayer than you ever imagined, it won't be easy. But if you play gay enough maybe they'll lose momentum/or switch characters even if you lose a match.

 

[Raistlin]

PATRICK!

I need to fight you more Q_Q.

I'll show you all. I'll learn how to powershield bairs and d-smash/f-smash/uptilt out of them and Marth will will DESTROY Jigglypuff!

double post, don't give a ****

lol, yeah dude. Not that Marth needs that dumb **** to beat Jiggs anyway :-P

we'll duel soon.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Jigglypuff shouldn't be banned.

She's annoying, boring, and irritating but she's not good enough to warrant a ban.

Raistilin's post pretty much ***** the thread.

 

[Ripple]

I don't see how people think that because jigg's metagame has evolved into: space better, and use smashes. she magically just got a bannable status.

nothing about jiggs has changed in the past 9 years

 

[Mew2King]

MK isn't good enough (in fact LESS dominant at the tippity top level) either but the community is about to make me quit both games

 

[Animal]

don't know if this has been mentioned, but i just think people have not figured out the matchup yet. It took a while to figure out how to play against a marth, and it took a while to figure out howe 2 cope with falcos lasers, but eventually we did. Once someone figures out the matchup, she wont do as well.

 

[Strong Badam]

some jiggs tried to utilt -> rest me but I held left on both sticks and then I didn't get rested and I was glad

m2k I haven't heard anything about mk being banned lately... is something going on in the brawl back room about it?

 

[brg]

why is this thread still open? this thread is like people raging alone, arguing against a tree lol