• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Is This What You Call Entertainment And Fair Play?

DaiAndOh

DaiAndOh

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 15, 2007
Messages
526
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Looking at fighting games that have huge character diversity and exceptional if not incredible balance (VF5R, SFIV, STHDRemix, GG, and BB), I'd say the smash series can too. Perhaps it can't be in Brawl+, I'd like to think it can.

But it is POSSIBLE to create a smash game with viable characters equal to the amount of characters.
 
D1

D1

Banned via Administration
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
3,811
Location
Twitter @xD1x
I'm mad I just realized a sensible thread was posted on this shiz.

Good sh** Bum amazing read and a not so amazing match.

Plank is so much more fun to play in Melee than Brawl...cuz Brawl sucks he just does what he has to do to win can't blame him.

<3 Plank for being so famous w/o having to **** at tourneys like the M2K or Ally.

I bet he's more famous, cuz they make rules after him LMAO.

<3 Plank.
 
Rocann

Rocann

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
1,317
Location
bustin 5 knots wind whippin out my coat
I had a B+ tournament yesterday and enjoyed it a thousand times more than any brawl tournament. It wasn't completely because of the game; it had a lot to do with the people that were there. But the environment was just better. Everyone was having a great time and I felt like I was unscrewable by bull**** like in normal brawl, so that wasn't on my mind, and that's how it was for everyone. Matches were more exciting to watch, from finals stuff all the way down to lower-placings playing each other in losers. It was just a more fun environment. I still like vbrawl, probably more than b+ (but only because I picked up snake, it's nice to play a character you have some control over and can actually win if you're better even though they know the matchup) but I don't know man
 
S

Skip2MaLoo

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
1,293
KnightMare516 said:
**** dont like it go home is all i say i enjoy playing brawl and melee idc about this kind of stuff
Click to expand...
I remember you telling me you liked melee more tho..I agree with you though. I like brawl melee and brawl+, but if there's melee I won't be playing brawl, if there brawl+ I won't be playing brawl. if there's brawl, then ill play that too.
 
Sox

Sox

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 10, 2007
Messages
204
Location
CT
Can someone explain why a timer is on for brawl anyways? All it does is promote stalling. Wouldn't matches move much faster if they were forced to play? idk, maybe i'm wrong, but that's sure not very fun to watch.
 
teh_spamerer

teh_spamerer

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
4,067
Location
Good luck Mario
Sox said:
Can someone explain why a timer is on for brawl anyways? All it does is promote stalling. Wouldn't matches move much faster if they were forced to play? idk, maybe i'm wrong, but that's sure not very fun to watch.
Click to expand...
If there was no timer on then people would still not approach but the games just wouldn't end.

 
Jigglymaster

Jigglymaster

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
5,577
Location
Northwest NJ
NNID
Dapuffster
teh_spamerer said:


If there was no timer on then people would still not approach but the games just wouldn't end.
Click to expand...
Maybe to stop stalling they should change it so its a 1 stock battle if the stocks are the same when time runs out regardless of %. That way the winner can't stall if hes on the same stock as the losing player.
 
S

Skip2MaLoo

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
1,293
Jigglymaster said:
Maybe to stop stalling they should change it so its a 1 stock battle if the stocks are the same when time runs out regardless of %. That way the winner can't stall if hes on the same stock as the losing player.
Click to expand...
it goes by % if stock is equal. change the timer from 7/8mins to like 3-5 lul
 
Pi

Pi

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
6,038
Location
Lake Mary, Florida
Plank for President


A while back I asked phanna if he thought brawl's gameplay would speed up or slow down, because at the time (about 1 year ago) we were beginning to discover being defensive/campy was getting rewarded.

He said well it wouldn't get slower, lol

I took his word for it, figured he was right, but now I'm not so sure.
 
Eazy23

Eazy23

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
1,383
Dire, very good points. I honestly couldn't agree more with your simple logic although I don't know very much about fighting game mechanics in general. I haven't played too much brawl+ to be honest, but I've played enough to see some broken things. Fox so far is just way to much especially with his power/speed output. Perhaps there are others besides Fox, squirtle and Dancing Blade that are broken, I simply haven't seen them.

I know, from speaking to alot of people, getting seriously comboed is a huge turnoff. Many smashers are so used to a trade system that getting combo ( I'm talking 80%) is just to much to handle. What people have to realize is that it won't always be that way. Once people begin to learn better ways to escape combos as well as properly engaging in them themselves, the combo situation is not as disgusting.
 
_Yes!_

_Yes!_

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
8,787
Location
WHERE AM I
DI doesn't have that much of an impact in brawl+, Eazy. Combos dominate as of now, but smart players won't get hit :)
 
S

Sneak8288

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
2,784
Location
readin spark notes
people just don't know how to DI a move that isn't going to kill them... because that's one of the only times people even need to DI in brawl unless its a throw or maybe a small handful of other moves in the game or something
 
K

Kira-

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
2,859
Location
Socal
Lol @ people complaining about brawl, yet continuing to play it instead of Melee even though they know it is the better game.

Same to anyone trying to force competitiveness out of the game by making ridiculous rules or banning legitimate characters. The game is what it is, if it's not one gay technique there will be another, or by banning one technique another will become more prominent. Sure brawl+ has an advantage in terms of balancing the game properly, but who gets final say on what stays and what goes? Will the game turn into DotA in the sense that there will be updates every month (sometimes every week) for the next 6 years until the game is "properly balanced"? Instead of figuring out ways around good tactics, people will simply whine for a new update? Who decides when it's balanced or when the game needs more adjustment? It's ridiculous to think that eventually we could be playing a good, competitive fighter that requires a lot of skill when so much of the basic design needs to be tweaked in order to do so.

tl;dr - Melee is the obvious choice.

So far the only reason I see people not playing Melee is because it's "too hard" (i.e. they are too lazy to learn tech skill so they say the game is all about tech skill and requires no mindgames when that couldn't be further from the truth)
 
boss8

boss8

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
9,337
Location
where ever I please,im a f***in boss!!
wow i like these matches.....they help me sleep along with.....overswarm and masashi.....

lol sad to say in the future this is all you will see along with...

ice climber infinates

planking MK's

nade spamming

and camping....

good **** brawl..... >_>
 
slikvik

slikvik

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
4,179
Location
**** MD/VA. I have no region. no really...
DireVulcan said:
K, this post is going to be hearty (like Campbell's delicious soups!), but I've got a lot of logical crap brewing in my mind and I want to share this with everyone here and see who agrees/disagrees.

On the point of balancing Brawl+ I see a lot of people here thinking way too linearly.

For example Squirtle. There's no real need to remove his actual ability to do the combos he's able to do, all you have to do to balance him down is lower the percent damage of those quick attacks. Imagine if his Utilt did 4% and his Uair did 5%. Now take this generic but painful combo; Utilt Utilt Utilt Uair Uair. The combo is still worth doing but guess what, only 22% damage has been tacked on for it, which is very bearable. Or Fox even, if each hit of his Dair did 1.5% and you land a full 5 hits, you'll leave him with 7% maybe 8%. Fox Utilt 6% and so on and so forth.

The very idea of seeing characters in Brawl+ that can land huge combos and wanting to nerf them so they can't do such big combos pretty much breaks one of the main ideas of Brawl+ itself, ...which is huge combos. If you do that then you water down all the characters to the point where the small nimble characters can only juggle for as many hits as the big guys...which is stupid.

All you have to do is take a character, see which moves he does that lets him combo very easily, and reduce the damage of the actual attack. Tekken has done the same thing. As most of you know that's familiar with Tekken's core game play, it's heavily reliant on high damage air juggles. Well in T6 BR they heavily nerfed air juggles to the point where in the previous game a mere 6 hit combo can net you 70 dmg (half your lifebar) or more but in BR it takes about 10-11 hits to land that same damage. Now the game is much more fun to play and balanced. It's the same concept, and it's that simple.

Now on the point of creating a perfectly balanced game (or as balanced as humanly possible)

PockyD your quote "obviously, it's impossible to get a "perfectly balanced game" (except for starcraft!!)" pretty much defeats itself right there, though I understand what you meant. It's so hard to create a perfectly balanced game that unless you have 10-15 YEARS of solid development and testing, it's pretty much not worth bothering. As well as all others saying that, they are honestly wrong. When it comes to creating moves for a character, all that needs to be done with ANY kind of move is follow a simple formula.

A move that's:

Fast = weak
Slow = strong
Long range and strong = laggy
Long range and fast = weak

That's IT, as long as you follow that simple formula you can let your imagination run wild with your character and his various ways to attack (including projectiles).

There's a sub-factor when considering "well how can you make a fast move strong?"

It breaks down into Release and Retraction.

Take Marth's Fsmash. It has a really fast release, but very laggy retraction. So because of that, it's OK for it to have power because it's retraction time allows for adequate punishment if missed/blocked. The opposite of this idea would be DDD's Fsmash.

So there you have it. I personally think that's about as sound as it gets.

If the creators/updaters/balancers of the official Brawl+ somehow read this post (i'd like them to) and like what they read, I'd honestly would mind personally advising them and assisting with the balance of the moves in Brawl+. but that probably won't happen and it'll end up perpetually flawed in a critical way.

Oh well.
Click to expand...
I approve of this message
 
_Yes!_

_Yes!_

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
8,787
Location
WHERE AM I
nah sneak don't worry about it. I was making a joke and the brawl ego is too sensitive to understand the context of the joke and that I was clearly calling him a scrub and not fat after saying e-honda was fat. s'all good tho :)
 
xxCANDYxx

xxCANDYxx

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
1,212
Location
In a XXXXXXXXXXXL Bra.
i see no point for brawl+....dont get me wrong its a really fun game...and i like playing it every now and then when i see other ppl playing it...but i dont see it going anywhere

you cant say " o0o the brawl player doesnt like + b/c he just sux at it and he can only camp so he sticks with normal brawl" b/c im actually good at brawl +.....shoot all of md/va is....if anything the game is TOO easy

im sorry but in brawl.....NOONE can goto a tourny and win it if they've only played the game once or twice....now lets look at brawl +

people hosted a brawl+ tourny in md/va...and those ppl were the people that practically quit brawl for the +....in doubles the top 2 teams did not have a single person that played brawl + like that....the top 3 in singles did not play brawl +.....in fact 6 out of 7 of the top placers in singles did not play brawl plus....and the ppl that did play + very consistantly placed very low

didnt chu also win brawl+ at apex??? again he was 1 of the ppl in the md/va tourny that doesnt even play....and now he won a bigger brawl+ tourny

it just seems that ppl are giving up on brawl too easily....i mean the games only been out for a year....how good was melee when it only out for a year??? i think more ppl would like brawl if they took the time and helped the metagame get better...if every1 gives up then its never gonna change...is that what every1 wants?

honestly...if your looking for a faster paced game and just trying to recreate melee into brawl...why not just play melee?? theres nothing wrong with that...ppl that like brawl play brawl...ppl that dont like brawl then dont play and play something else..like MELEE! brawl+ is very fun...but i dont think its competitive...if you wanna play a competitive version of smash play brawl or melee... going on smashboards and complaining how stupid brawl is just makes yourself look stupid...play whatever game you like...dont listen to what other ppl say...and HAVE FUN!
 
boss8

boss8

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
9,337
Location
where ever I please,im a f***in boss!!
many people who have a CRAP load of experience are obviously gonna have natural skill in brawl +

no one is gonna help the metagame in brawl....cause everyone is focused on

-winning
-money
-placing high

once all that is put on the table....all honor and anything else is put aside

not giving up on brawl in the future it will just crash.....thats y i like watching/playing people that actually fight like....

bumm
myself
ninjalink
jash
ADHD
m2k

etc

step it up people....
 
JCaesar

JCaesar

Smash Hero
Joined
May 28, 2004
Messages
9,657
Location
Project MD
NNID
JCaesar
xxCANDYxx said:
i see no point for brawl+....dont get me wrong its a really fun game...and i like playing it every now and then when i see other ppl playing it...but i dont see it going anywhere
Click to expand...
The tourneys for it have been getting bigger every week. Brawl+ at Apex (a side event at 2am Sunday morning) had almost as many people sign up for it as Melee (a main event during prime time on Saturday).

you cant say " o0o the brawl player doesnt like + b/c he just sux at it and he can only camp so he sticks with normal brawl" b/c im actually good at brawl +.....shoot all of md/va is....if anything the game is TOO easy
Click to expand...
im sorry but in brawl.....NOONE can goto a tourny and win it if they've only played the game once or twice....now lets look at brawl +

people hosted a brawl+ tourny in md/va...and those ppl were the people that practically quit brawl for the +....in doubles the top 2 teams did not have a single person that played brawl + like that....the top 3 in singles did not play brawl +.....in fact 6 out of 7 of the top placers in singles did not play brawl plus....and the ppl that did play + very consistantly placed very low[/quote]
It's very early in the game's life, so of course the placings are gonna be a little more random than an established game. When Brawl first came out, were the top placers consistent every week? Not remotely. When people have played it enough to actually have a good handle on everything (and when the game changes become less frequent and less drastic), Brawl+ results will settle down.

didnt chu also win brawl+ at apex??? again he was 1 of the ppl in the md/va tourny that doesnt even play....and now he won a bigger brawl+ tourny
Click to expand...
Chu loves Brawl+ and has been in every MD/VA Brawl+ event so far. Saying he "doesnt even play" is just dumb. He won Brawl+ at Apex because of his wealth of experience and skill from being a Smash franchise pro for so long. That kind of skill carries over a lot, just like it did from Melee to Brawl.

it just seems that ppl are giving up on brawl too easily....i mean the games only been out for a year....how good was melee when it only out for a year??? i think more ppl would like brawl if they took the time and helped the metagame get better...if every1 gives up then its never gonna change...is that what every1 wants?
Click to expand...
Not many people enjoy Brawl at high level because the dominant strategies are to either play MK, or to camp. Or both. And that's not going to change for the foreseeable future.

honestly...if your looking for a faster paced game and just trying to recreate melee into brawl...why not just play melee?? theres nothing wrong with that...ppl that like brawl play brawl...ppl that dont like brawl then dont play and play something else..like MELEE! brawl+ is very fun...but i dont think its competitive...if you wanna play a competitive version of smash play brawl or melee... going on smashboards and complaining how stupid brawl is just makes yourself look stupid...play whatever game you like...dont listen to what other ppl say...and HAVE FUN!
Click to expand...
Some of us have been playing competitive Melee since you were in diapers and want something different and new and fresh. Brawl was a huge disappointment to a lot of Melee players, so now we're trying to create something that's by the players, for the players. Sakurai created an uncompetitive party game on purpose, and we're just trying to clean up his mess and bring back some glory to the Smash franchise.

Honestly I don't know why it bothers you so much that some people take Brawl+ seriously and prefer it over Brawl. And I can't even fathom how you can think that Brawl is a more competitive game. But if that's what you prefer, that's perfectly fine. Just stay out of our way and we'll stay out of yours.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom