*IMPORTANT READ* Bucket Braking. Read it nubs.

[omegablackmage]

i know right, that stage would be so awesome for gw now.

also got to use this today in some teams matches, its pretty nice. Just do it whenever you can, even if you aren't close to dying when learning how to do it. It will get you into a good habit for the tough situations. And ya hylian, i still dair out of reaction, particularly when getting hit up.

 

[Gishnak]

Bucket Braking put to use:

At SCSA West Coast Circuit, I played mikeHAZE (ranked california marth), and sk92 (#1 vegas smasher, falco) and used bucket braking.

Against mike I went gdub the second game and bucket braking saved my last life, and I came back to win. Good ****, A2ZOMG.

On the same token, on my final game against Sk92, I bucket cancelled a fsmash (may or may not have killed me, I properly DI'D); he was at 80 and I was at 130 or so. I bucket cancelled, but he followed his smash up with lasers. Because I was so far off the edge, and I caught both lasers, I dropped like a brick and couldn't make it back even with up B.

Moral of the story: Bucket braking owns, but don't use it against falco if you don't have enough lasers in your bucket already.

 

[omegablackmage]

pfft its still good against falco, just not in EVERY situation, like the one you had there.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Make sure you Bucket at least one laser from Falco before going offstage then. =P

I mean seriously, he's going to want to laser you sometime when he thinks you're not ducking.

 

[Gishnak]

Make sure you Bucket at least one laser from Falco before going offstage then. =P

I mean seriously, he's going to want to laser you sometime when he thinks you're not ducking.

Make sure I have a laser before going off stage, huh?
"Falco, don't fsmash me yet, I don't have a laser yet"

I had never played against a falco before, so it was a very large learning experience.

 

[Jamnt0ast]

This is the most broken piece of **** i have seen in my life.

 

[K 2]

.... no disrespect, but are you sure you understand DI then? After you're sent flying away from the hit, ie. once hitstun starts, your DI is already set. You needn't be holding a direction anymore. You have half of your full knockback distance (or something about that much, noone has exact numbers afaik) before you can use the Nair, that's a good amount of time to let go of the control stick. After hitstun starts, directional input has no effect until you've escaped knockback {*}; with the exception of fastfalling, which you can do with an aerial, or anytime after ("hitstun-cancelled knockback").

IMO inputting an aerial to escape hitstun is much easier to learn than proper DI, so the habit shouldn't take too long to develop. Fastfalling the Nair is a bit of a pain, but not too bad once you get used to doing it fast.


{*}: OK, really it's a little before knockback ends; the moment that hitstun would normally convert into a tumble, that's when you regain control of your aerial mobility.

Dangit! I've been DI'ing wrong on my life! One of those stupid DI guides out there is WRONG!!!

Ah, anyways, I finally learned the real way to DI...grrr

 

[Padô]

This should be stickied

 

[Mith_]

WTF.
I never clicked the thread because I'm not so into G&W anymore. But I decided to check it out and this **** is too broken.

 

[infomon]

It's awesome, but it's not broken, srsly. The vid overexaggerates it a bit

HYPE

 

[Rogue Pit]

Great....... Just Great......

 

[sonic 12111]

wow this works! use this everyone

 

[UTDZac]

Some stats

ROB's short-hop Nair on G&W spawning in the middle of FD

Condition: Death %
No DI, No Attack: 120%
No DI, Dair: 128%
No DI, Bucket Brake: 129%
DI to corner, No Attack: 131%
DI to corner, Dair: 135%
DI to corner, Bucket Brake: 149%

Under good DI conditions and fast reaction time, bucket braking is truly worth it. Practice it.

 

[prOAPC]

i was trying to use it i a real fight, and i find it a little difficult, just need some more practice

 

[UTDZac]

i was trying to use it i a real fight, and i find it a little difficult, just need some more practice

This is one of the more difficult techniques to learn with G&W.

I find it easy to constantly remind myself during a match to use it; whether it's in my head or out loud. The more you try and force yourself to use it, the more often you'll remember to when it counts.

The hardest part of this technique is to DI correctly. This seriously makes the most difference. Once you got that down, you have to transition to released the control stick to the neutral position to allow for a nair. This is also hard to get used to, as it requires fast reaction time. Once nair goes off it's as simple as spamming Bdown.

In short: Practice makes perfect. Don't give up, even after a few weeks.

 

[K@0S]

Yes, the hard part is to DI at the same time.

And btw in what order should you do it ? DI -> Nair -> DI during the Nair -> Bucket ?

 

[K 2]

I survived a math's fsmash (untippered) at 156% yesterday on Yoshi's Island due to bucket braking! w00t!

 

[cutter]

I survived a math's fsmash (untippered) at 156% yesterday on Yoshi's Island due to bucket braking! w00t!

WHOA for a split second I thought you said tippered and I called bull****... then I see you said UNtippered which makes a lot more sense. Marth's untippered Fsmash has pretty bad knockback and very little hitstun.

 

[Gates]

And btw in what order should you do it ? DI -> Nair -> DI during the Nair -> Bucket ?

No, I'm pretty sure it's DI -> Nair -> FF during Nair -> Bucket.

 

[cutter]

No, I'm pretty sure it's DI -> Nair -> FF during Nair -> Bucket.

Yes, this is correct.

 

[K@0S]

Yea, I wrote DI during nair instead of FF ._., thanks for the confirmation

 

[Ruuku]

For some reason I completely missed this thread. Luckily I've already been doing something similar but with the wrong aerial. N.air->bucket works better than U.air->bucket.

 

[OverLade]

I played Slikviks GaW yesterday in a money match with MK and I must say this REALLY does make a huge difference in fighting GaW. As MK you can normally kill a GaW with bad DI at 80%ish , and one with good DI at 110%. But with this bucket cancelling, I found Vik living up to 140%, as stale move negation really took a toll on moves I thought would kill at lower percents.

I barely won 2-1.

Also, watching Azen's GaW vs. M2K's MK shows how the matchup has been evened out because of this, regardless of M2Ks discoveries. Not to mention GaW up B out of nado and sending MK into freefall. Vik hit me with a 9 because of it.

 

[Ruuku]

I played Slikviks GaW yesterday in a money match with MK and I must say this REALLY does make a huge difference in fighting GaW. As MK you can normally kill a GaW with bad DI at 80%ish , and one with good DI at 110%. But with this bucket cancelling, I found Vik living up to 140%, as stale move negation really took a toll on moves I thought would kill at lower percents.

I barely won 2-1.

Also, watching Azen's GaW vs. M2K's MK shows how the matchup has been evened out because of this, regardless of M2Ks discoveries. Not to mention GaW up B out of nado and sending MK into freefall. Vik hit me with a 9 because of it.

There's a hell of a lot more than this that evens out the matchup. But yes, in the right hands, G&W can live long. Ask FIU about my DI/recovery skills.

 

[_Phloat_]

I played Slikviks GaW yesterday in a money match with MK and I must say this REALLY does make a huge difference in fighting GaW. As MK you can normally kill a GaW with bad DI at 80%ish , and one with good DI at 110%. But with this bucket cancelling, I found Vik living up to 140%, as stale move negation really took a toll on moves I thought would kill at lower percents.

I barely won 2-1.

Also, watching Azen's GaW vs. M2K's MK shows how the matchup has been evened out because of this, regardless of M2Ks discoveries. Not to mention GaW up B out of nado and sending MK into freefall. Vik hit me with a 9 because of it.

Where are these matches?

 

[OverLade]

Where are these matches?

I didnt record them.

There's a hell of a lot more than this that evens out the matchup. But yes, in the right hands, G&W can live long. Ask FIU about my DI/recovery skills.

Dont get me wrong, it's a close matchup. But MK not being able to use Shuttle loop/Nado without being severely punished is crippling for some MK players. MK has better kill moves than GaW, and can beat GaW's spacing with grounded Shuttle loops. I think MK has the edge with no bucket cancelling, and it's even with it. GaW has trouble killing a good MK with moves like Dsmash, Fsmash, Usmash etc... so he usually wont die at the more obscene percents.

 

[_Phloat_]

Darn....

I'll mail you a camcorder =\

 

[IDK]

can't you do the wiggle thing instead of doing an aerial or airdodging? it's where you basically dash dance in mid air and it takes you out of the tumble animation.

 

[infomon]

Yes, the hard part is to DI at the same time.

And btw in what order should you do it ? DI -> Nair -> DI during the Nair -> Bucket ?

can't you do the wiggle thing instead of doing an aerial or airdodging? it's where you basically dash dance in mid air and it takes you out of the tumble animation.

That takes you out of tumble, which is the state you're in if you waited out hitstun to its fullest extent. The purpose of all this momentum-cancelling nonsense is to abort hitstun waayy earlier than you'd end up in tumble.

 

[Needle of Juntah]

even though i did REALLY bad at the tournament yesterday, i taught myself how to do the bucket braking during teams it works so awesome

 

[K 2]

Glad to have you back NoJ! BB is fairly easy to learn, especially if you already use nair + jump.

 

[OverLade]

Darn....

I'll mail you a camcorder =\

I actually had a camcorder at the time but it was to crowded to set it up with the tripod and everything. A **** shame. I had some epic sets.

 

[infomon]

O hai

It turns out that if G&W is holding an item, bucket-braking is even slightly more ridiculous than we'd thought:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=215117

We know you can throw an item to escape hitstun early, and that this is faster than using Nair. But you can airdodge even earlier than you can throw the item, and you can cancel the first few frames of an airdodge with an item-throw. So this increases your survivability even more!

Of course it works for everyone else too (if they have an item), but it's super-special-awesome with bucket-braking.

 

[Gates]

Wasn't that in one of your other videos Infzy? Or maybe it was just without Bucket Braking.

 

[slikvik]

^^^@gates "But you can airdodge even earlier than you can throw the item, and you can cancel the first few frames of an airdodge with an item-throw."

different

another good find, although I'll probably just throw throw the item without airdodging

 

[UTDZac]

After mega tourney this weekend, I have decided Bucket Braking is completely worth learning. It saved me so many times.

* I lived on japes to 212% from Diddy's Fsmash for example.
* I lived on Green Greens from MK's Downsmash at 140% (won me teams tourney)
* I died on japes with my last stock because my controller had been buggy the whole day. I watched myself fly away as I spammed Down-B. I know the timing well enough that I would have lived if nair would have gone off.

 

[Gates]

^^^@gates "But you can airdodge even earlier than you can throw the item, and you can cancel the first few frames of an airdodge with an item-throw."

different

another good find, although I'll probably just throw throw the item without airdodging

Oh, my bad. Thanks for correcting me slik.

 

[omegablackmage]

you know whats the worst? when you go to bucket brake, you do the nair but your still holding to the stage and you hammer instead of bucket, that **** loses you sets to azen loool

 

[White Out]

you know whats the worst? when you go to bucket brake, you do the nair but your still holding to the stage and you hammer instead of bucket, that **** loses you sets to azen loool

Man that blows yea i've lost a few matchs before for Di'ing and then hitting A to quickly and Fair'ing

but not against someone of that level of play

 

[slikvik]

you know whats the worst? when you go to bucket brake, you do the nair but your still holding to the stage and you hammer instead of bucket, that **** loses you sets to azen loool

i did commentary for that set too

and you both had bad DI that last hit