Ike Boards General/Q&A Thread

[Supreme Dirt]

Quick question, how is Ike vs. MK? Better than Dedede? I badly need a secondary for the MU, was going to play Marth but he screws up my Melee spacing.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Don't ask.
Choose Diddy or something.

 

[Heartstring]

ike mk is 30;70 mk's favour. its ikes standalone worst matchup iirc
i can still deal relatively well with it though...lol?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Don't like how Diddy plays.

So it's as bad as Dedede then. But it's not because of Nado, right?

 

[Teh Brettster]

We can beat out Nado more than a lot of people can, but if it's used smartly, it's a problem for any character.

Anyway. Without nado, MK soundly beats Ike by staying on the ground and playing defensively.

 

[Ussi]

DDD isn't nearly as bad as MK... He is expoitable...

Ike's jab lets him put up a fight vs MK... But mk just wrecks Ike's recovery... Especially with a bad angle shuttle loop.. And even before that... MK has an extreme mix up game with insanely fast moves both with low start up and ending frames. Hard for Ike who only has jab variations.

 

[•Col•]

Don't like how Diddy plays.

So it's as bad as Dedede then. But it's not because of Nado, right?

Funnily enough, Ike is one of the characters that has some of the most options of 'beating' MK's Tornado. You can easily beat it with a fair/bair, and if they start it from the ledge(or far enough away), you can hit them with an ftilt/fsmash. They'll be too afraid to use it again for the rest of the match, lol. It's a little harder to deal with when he starts it under you, but even then it's not that big of a deal.

But yeah, Tornado definitely isn't the reason why the matchup is heavily in MK's favor.... <.<

 

[Teh Brettster]

DDD isn't nearly as bad as MK... He is expoitable...

Ike's jab lets him put up a fight vs MK... But mk just wrecks Ike's recovery... Especially with a bad angle shuttle loop.. And even before that... MK has an extreme mix up game with insanely fast moves both with low start up and ending frames. Hard for Ike who only has jab variations.

Ike's jab does not let Ike put up a fight against MK.


We have like... Bair. In that match-up.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Actually I meant Dedede has as much trouble with MK as Ike does. BBR MU chart has it as easier than Icies... which it's not. Not even close.

Alternative response: So Ike gets no sympathy from him?

 

[Teh Brettster]

What a clever fellow.

I bet he came up with that joke all by himself, too.

 

[Ussi]

Ike's jab does not let Ike put up a fight against MK.


We have like... Bair. In that match-up.

Jab is a standard damage racker against everyone..

Why wouldn't it work on MK? .. Repharsed: what does MK do to prevent jab from landing?

... Well air camping bleh =_=; tornado mitigates his bad aerial speed...

Jsjdudkskshskxd mind = blown

 

[Mr. Doom]

MK isn't always going to be in the air. Jab is your best bet against MK when he's on the ground. If he shields often, then grab him. If he grounded-shuttle loops often, then shield it and jump and u-air him. If you do happen to hit him with jab, then do Jab1->full Jab combo. That's a simple 20% damage that MK doesn't want.

 

[Helix King]

What if he's just tornado happy D:

^ learning.

 

[Ussi]

Run away and bair

 

[Teh Brettster]

Choose an aerial.
Or counter.

 

[theeboredone]

MK isn't always going to be in the air. Jab is your best bet against MK when he's on the ground. If he shields often, then grab him. If he grounded-shuttle loops often, then shield it and jump and u-air him. If you do happen to hit him with jab, then do Jab1->full Jab combo. That's a simple 20% damage that MK doesn't want.

Good point, but it's still playing with fire. By any chance if MK spot dodges or if you whiff the grab, you're gonna be in for a world of hurt (d-smash, shuttle loop, practically any move). Where as jab, usually leads to being shield grabbed, and depending on damage output...a bit more.

But overall...Ike needs to be centered on stage. If he's fighting MK on the edge, you will get knocked off stage, and you will get gimped by a good MK.

 

[AN(M)ist]

But overall...Ike needs to be centered on stage. If he's fighting MK on the edge, you will get knocked off stage, and you will get gimped by a good MK.

Seconded wholeheartedly. Cannot say how many times my Ike was effaced by MKs offstage. I believe Ike has the most options against nado primarily becoz of his transcended ranged aerials. Unless MK touches Ike, there is no way for MK to interrupt Ike's aerials with his whirl, no matter how hard he taps the A button.

 

[Ussi]

Yea it all matters in the B button

 

[AN(M)ist]

LoL.

c'mon, mistakes happen

 

[Heartstring]

lol, its funny because ive been playing the ike mk matchup perfectly according to brett, and the only mk ive beeen losing to is a marth main lol. then again, we have no mk's really

i find you can get back occasionaly through mixups. random reversed aethers and occasionally a really high quick draw. bit of rish reward i guess

 

[Ussi]

Tornado still has high aerial speed

 

[san.]

Ike can beat out any singular thing MK does, but MK's mixup game is superior enough to keep us guessing.

Defensive MKs are actually very easy. Their defense usually crumbles inevitably. MKs that know how to mixup their offensive game and bait certain reactions are the ones who are hard to deal with.

Remember, we can combo MK from a grab from 20-80 %. Many Ikes don't know how to recover in general. It isn't too difficult to keep MK away when recovering. MK needs to outplay you to gimp you.

 

[Ussi]

I dunno about outplaying to gimp you...

I just think you take recovering to a level we don't

 

[san.]

You can choose to recover high or low, you fall faster than MK, and MK has trouble hitting you in the air horizontally.

 

[Ussi]

o.x you recover better than all of us.

You should make a recovery montage video.

 

[AN(M)ist]

oh yeah. Come to think of it, MK only has dair (even though its like a semi-circle hitbox) as a potential down hit move.

*Noted to self* - when shot horizontally offstage try to recover low and out of MK's dair range. Never use your second jump if MK is near your head; almost always a better option to fall faster and aether.

 

[san.]

When recovering low, there are only a few things to take note of.

Preventing the opponent from grabbing the edge, especially if they're over 100%.
Keeping them far enough away to aether safely.
If you use an aerial, space it so they can't reach you if you miss.
2nd jump management.

MK's bad aerial speed makes it easier for MK to simply camp and attack at the edge. MK can hit us out of aether anyways, but the timing can be somewhat tough if the Ike is moving around the aether well.

 

[Helix King]

How do I keep someone from the ledge to Aether if i'm trying to recover?

 

[smashkng]

Staying at the center like I heard in some critiqued vids of other Ikes has helped me a lot in the MK MU. I get gimped way less and it's not a free gimp at like 40 % if I miss my DI. And most of the time he doesn't have the time to gimp me before I get onstage. And AN Mist I've also got gimped by weak hit Nairs of MK.
I also don't find MK being too bad because he can't take many hits against us. Usmash kills at like 80% against him and I've killed MKs with Uair at 70%. We also generally outrange him, though his moves are much faster and his dash grab is too good to punish our aerials out of his shield (I'm not sure if it's fast enough to punish our Nair but I think it can punish a near pearfectly spaced Fair) so we also have to be careful with our aerials against him.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

I think it might be me and the fact that it was on wifi, but people don't really remember how long Ike's dair's hitbox lasts and end up jumping into it often than I expect.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Eh, I think I might go Wolf instead for MK.

But I'ma still stick around because Ike is pretty awesome.

 

[Ussi]

Wolf is a good choice if you can handle him properly without SDing while recovering.

I'd suggest Fox over Wolf as a 2ndary

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Fox is overrated.

 

[Ussi]

But easier to use over Wolf

 

[Helix King]

But I'ma still stick around because Ike is pretty awesome.

Lol, I remember when I was first told Ike's tier.

 

[Teh Brettster]

I don't think gimping is much the issue-- San's right
I have a much harder time recovering vs D3.

It's just that MK shuts Ike's options down in many other ways. He can punish basically perfect spacing and even the safest play-- harder than anyone else can. We have range and disjoint on our moves, but MK has both of those plus speed-- he can pretty much react to anything we do and punish during our ending lag.

+ he's short, and Ike already has trouble against short characters. Jabs aren't super reliable and you're almost lucky to make a retreating Bair his even a shield.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Lol, I remember when I was first told Ike's tier.

You think that's bad, I remember being told what tier Ganon was in.

 

[Ussi]

I was estatic that i didn't need a low tier main. Then san showes up and had to expose us cause he has jiggypuff :|

I'm hoping PT goes down to low tier~ he'll be fun there.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Twinkletoes = all I need for LT.
Until I fight a good Lucas.
Then I'm just boned.

 

[san.]

Need to fast fall nair less.
And ledge release hop+bair is too good lol. (Using L as jump of course for me)